NA 2017 Spring Split Team Rankings #10

III BAKURYU III ·Dec 17, 2016·1 votes·1,414 views

10 NA Standings with a 4-14 record in this upcoming split

                IMMORTALS

Average stat predictions ( K-D-A-CS)

1.3 2.4 4.4 276 Flame 2.5 2.4 4.9 155 Dardoch 2.9 2.1 3.9 301 Pobelter 2.9 1.9 4.0 294 Cody Sun 1.0 3.6 9.3 42 Olleh

This team "looked" weak on paper when the team was reveled but with no games yet to be shown to see if they could be a good team but when I did watch them during IEM my assumption was correct.

Flame didn't really impressive me as much as I thought he would have and his engages were ok at best but nothing to really look at.
Dardoch honestly it's not so much question if he is good more so than to question if he can handle losing on a fresh-new team. Mainly because he left TL for IMT with a much worse roster than before and this team isn't really "young" like we have seen most of these players' skill already we know what we are going to get from them and that's the part that's really going to show for this team going forward. This team has talent and really the best part PROVEN talent but what's in the past is in the past but yet people still want to just think of past accomplishments of some of these players.

PROS and CONS

PRO This team won't "dry out in the sun" meaning they won't hesitate to make a play, Flame and Dardoch will engage to make something happen for the team ahead behind whenever they need to do something they will. CON They're too late most of the time when they do try to make a play happen. Pobelter and Dardoch seem to not really know when the next play will happen at and they're constantly late to all most every fight.

PRO Bot lane. This lane really has the most potential and room to grow if they can get ahead. Olleh seems like he can/should be able to steer Cody in the right direction. CON Cody Sun seems like a good player but I would bet he shakes easily. I'm not saying he's scared but more so as a monotone type of player. A role player with a normal style that won't really impressive anyone but you know what you will get out of him for the most part.

PRO The coaching staff. I really like the coaching staff for Immortals they seem like a bunch of down to earth people who really do want the best for their players and it really did show from the previous IMT players from not really hearing any complaints from inside the team. A team that lost 4/5 players but to make a roster in no time is no laughing matter. The way they handled it too is something we should all be admiring in a team.
CON I'm not saying they are and I hate to go back to Dardoch but { are the coaching staff members.... pushovers } I'v seen and anyone who has watched previous TL's videos have seen Dardoch pretty much talking down to his coaches and managers mainly Locodoco who's a proven coach for 1 of the most accomplished teams in the World of E-Sports Team Solomid sure maybe Loco wasn't ever the best coach with so much talent around him or even that mature but when you have 3-5 top players on 1 team and for the most part it didn't create as much chaos when opposed to say 1 player; it becomes a liability.

Overall I do want this team to do well but I just think the bigwigs upstairs were really just reaching.

Thank you and Happy Holidays!

12 Comments

Ale non è maleDec 17, 20161 votes

LOL No way Immortals get last in NA when there are FAR worse teams than them on paper.

The fate of teams in NA is decided by how well their NA residency players compare to the other teams (see CLG having success despite using only 1 imprt slot and using it for a mediocre player like Huhi), since the limited amount of taltentd NA players available, and Pobleter-Dardoch-Coyd Sun is at least average (and could be even above average if Dardoch and Cody improve fast) core among NA teams because Pobelter and Dardoch have yet proven to perform at NALCS level

III BAKURYU III Dec 17, 20161 votes

Who would be the "FAR worse teams than them"?

Dardoch might not even play if he keeps acting the way he has in the past. 4 wins isn't bad but that's all I see them getting.
Mainly because of IMT's bot lane having to face players and duos that on paper are and should perform better than IMT's bot lane because of the amount of time/years and past experience such as Stixxay/Aphroo, Turtle/Biofrost, Arrow/Adrian, Sneaky/Smoothie.

This is a "young" team by default but they wont go anywhere during the Split maybe 9th beating out Team Envyus.

Ale non è maleDec 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TaEktGvy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-17T10:22:53.675+0000)

Who would be the "FAR worse teams than them"?

EnVyUs,
the new org that has acquired the former C9Challenger as C9 org will keep for theirself Contractz and will have weak NA core
the brand new Dignitas which has a VERY BAD mid and bot side of the map because NA player, with SSumday-Chaser that will likely end-up in a situation like Froggen has had in for Echo Fox when he first came in NA
the same Echo Fox which is actually weaker than them and will depend a lot on if their NA residencd jungler will turn out to be ** (EDIT: I had a brainfart reading EF roster so I have edited this part) **

I think they will place around middle of the table alongside teams like Liquid, CLG and P1 and eventually one fo the teams mentioned above if one of them will surprise positively

III BAKURYU III Dec 17, 20161 votes

Yeah I don't think the C9C team will be a world beater and I never liked Altec's playstyle similar to Cop but more scared and doesn't really do anything. Great player but meh for me personally.

Keane "very bad" really? I never thought so but he does bank on cheese picks to win and has no real/true sense of meta picks so yeah, maybe no very bad but just bad lol.

God I hope the whole visa issue thing can get figured out cause that's annoying. Good point about that for DIG.

This is my prediction list because I might not have another time to do this stuff and I'm antz for the split to start instead of watching these IEM tournaments. 1 CLG 15-3 2 P1 13-5 3 DIG 12-6 4 TSM 11-7 5 C9 9-9 6 FOX 8-10 7 TL 7-11 8 C9C 6-12 9 NV 5-13 10 IMT 4-14

Ale non è maleDec 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TaEktGvy,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-17T11:12:03.929+0000)

Yeah I don't think the C9C team will be a world beater and I never liked Altec's playstyle similar to Cop but more scared and doesn't really do anything. Great player but meh for me personally.

Keane "very bad" really? I never thought so but he does bank on cheese picks to win and has no real/true sense of meta picks so yeah, maybe no very bad but just bad lol.

God I hope the whole visa issue thing can get figured out cause that's annoying. Good point about that for DIG.

This is my prediction list because I might not have another time to do this stuff and I'm antz for the split to start instead of watching these IEM tournaments. 1 CLG 15-3 2 P1 13-5 3 DIG 12-6 4 TSM 11-7 5 C9 9-9 6 FOX 8-10 7 TL 7-11 8 C9C 6-12 9 NV 5-13 10 IMT 4-14

C9C org doesn't technically have the time/possibility to get a good core of NA players, they are stuck with Balls-Altec- another guy because at this point in the off-season they won't be able to find good proven NA players left. And Pob-Dardoch >>> Balls-Altec

The " very bad" part when speaking of Dig was more because of their bot lane of Apollo-Xpecial (seriously, there is a problem in NA amateur and competitive scene if Xpecial is still around in LCS) rather than for Keane, who I think will still be bad, but more or less could be somewhat manageable to have since he isn't a guy that should represent too much of a liability by himself

There is not going to be Visa issues this year, I had simply a brainfart when I looked at EF roster and Looper XD They will depend on how their jungler will perform because their bot lane is weak and they'll need to rely on their imports to carry and the jungler must be good enough to put Looper-Froggen in a condition to carry and not being neutralized by enemy jungler

III BAKURYU III Dec 17, 20161 votes

See I have C9C team ahead mainly because of the old C9 connection with Balls/Lemon both players are team players who will listen to others and be coached and put up with criticism that at the end of the day will/might help the team in the long run.

Yeah Xpecial ever since he left TSM just hasn't had a season to hang his mouse on for retirement but honestly if he doesn't make it to playoffs this split I would retire if I was him because this is his last real chance at winning or really doing well in the LCS. He's a decent laner but overall his skill and potential just isn't there anymore.

For Keane I'v always viewed him as a guy that makes new small "metas" but nothing ground breaking but he was the Urgot/Cho player and it got around because BJergsen and even Faker started using those picks.
He's not in the top 5 best Western Mid's but he's a little lower than say Fenix and Fenix isn't a pushover by any means as a bad mid. So I would say Keane is decent but isn't a star in the end.

Echo Fox won't have a visa issue interesting first times for everything eh! That's good because without Looper this team would be garbage that's for sure and you're right they will need Looper to carry for the most part cause Froggen isn't leaving mid for shitt other than blues that's for sure.
Keith is a good adc but it just doesn't show and I have no idea who the support will be but unless it's Piccaboo or madlife the botlane will be an issue.

Miror BDec 17, 20161 votes

Just gonna put in my two cents on this.

First of all, the idea that IMT is going to get anywhere close to 10th is very off. Looking at talent alone, they're far better than many of the other rosters out there (echo fox, dignitas if we're looking at the jg/mid matchups, envyus, and kinda c9c as we don't know their exact roster yet). While dardoch may have an attitude issue of sorts, that still shouldn't stop them from winning games similar to how TL did last year. From what I can understand as well, IMT brought him in for his "toxicity", in that they're under the assumption that if he stops condescending his own teammates but keeps up the communication he'll be an overall better player along the same vein as forgiven.

Second, your entire prediction thing is about 2 weeks premature. C9C hasn't finalized their roster yet (we don't even know the team's name, or who will be starting jg/mid), new-dig hasn't finalized their roster yet (chaser/ssumday being the only two players confirmed to it yet), and overall the dust hasn't really settled yet.

Looking at NA as a whole, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "top of the table" teams which should make the 4-6 race pretty fun. While I'm not by any means suggesting that IMT will blow up everybody, the rest of the region as a whole is making it look like they could finish in the 4-5 spot based on sheer talent level alone.

III BAKURYU III Dec 17, 20161 votes

TL won games mainly because of Dardoch that I agree but let's not over look at the talent that was on TL during Dardoch's time on the team. Piglet-Fenix-Matt...Fabbyy-Lourlo. Was TL the next Avengers hell no but most of those players were at some point been in # amount of LCS/LPL/LCK games where for lets say Cody Sun who hasn't if you don't count the challenger scene.
Does IMT have a decent roster YES, is it going to be in playoffs - NO.
Most teams in NA aren't even finished with their rosters and are looking better than IMT's.

Premature rankings no doubt but I don't think the C9C team will get a mid that's good and if a challenger NA player is the good player that they get then I'm still leaving them around the 8th spot.

Well TSM- C9 are always going to be heavy favorites in each split to finish in the top 4 if not # 1-2 for some people because of the history of Worlds and just splits alone for those two teams.

CLG shouldn't be overlooked as a top team as they've been a team that every team needs to look out for but yet always underestimates but when they eliminate teams from worlds(Immortals) because they can actaully win a Split people get their undies in a tie.

P1 made huge changes to their rosters in which I'm sure Arrow/Adrian can pretty much destroy the bot lanes of IMT-TL-NV and EF.

DIG in which I personally think Looper has to be 1 of the top 5 Greatest TOP players in the world so he alone will most likely bully on Seraph-Flame-Balls-Lourlo.

I'm no genius when it comes to this stuff and I know I'm 2 weeks premature but I would bank I'm pretty much on the money with my predictions on the teams standings, listed 4 posts below this one.

Miror BDec 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TaEktGvy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-17T14:20:14.348+0000)

TL won games mainly because of Dardoch that I agree but let's not over look at the talent that was on TL during Dardoch's time on the team. Piglet-Fenix-Matt...Fabbyy-Lourlo. Was TL the next Avengers hell no but most of those players were at some point been in # amount of LCS/LPL/LCK games where for lets say Cody Sun who hasn't if you don't count the challenger scene.
Does IMT have a decent roster YES, is it going to be in playoffs - NO.
Most teams in NA aren't even finished with their rosters and are looking better than IMT's.

Premature rankings no doubt but I don't think the C9C team will get a mid that's good and if a challenger NA player is the good player that they get then I'm still leaving them around the 8th spot.

Well TSM- C9 are always going to be heavy favorites in each split to finish in the top 4 if not # 1-2 for some people because of the history of Worlds and just splits alone for those two teams.

CLG shouldn't be overlooked as a top team as they've been a team that every team needs to look out for but yet always underestimates but when they eliminate teams from worlds(Immortals) because they can actaully win a Split people get their undies in a tie.

P1 made huge changes to their rosters in which I'm sure Arrow/Adrian can pretty much destroy the bot lanes of IMT-TL-NV and EF.

DIG in which I personally think Looper has to be 1 of the top 5 Greatest TOP players in the world so he alone will most likely bully on Seraph-Flame-Balls-Lourlo.

I'm no genius when it comes to this stuff and I know I'm 2 weeks premature but I would bank I'm pretty much on the money with my predictions on the teams standings, listed 4 posts below this one.

While TL did have other parts besides dardoch, you could argue that many of the pieces on IMT are essentially upgrades. Flame has more knowledge of the game and can bring his experience from other regions to diversify strategies, Pobelter is by far a better mid than the current shell of Fenix, and if you include all the substitutes they did botlane then Cody Sun is better than Jynthe/Fabby if you're going off of solo-queue records (cody being #1, and the two TL adc's both being in low master). Matt is the only "iffy" one, but even then it's support so it doesn't matter too much.

CLG's actually coming into this split with one of the weaker rosters. Darshan is probably going to have to endure another annoying tank meta (forcing him to not play off his strength of being a carry split-pushing toplaner), Xmithie is relatively average and now has to deal with a bunch of new competition (contractz/inori/chaser), Huhi also has to deal with new competition and is by no means the best mid in NA (closer to 5th), and their botlane (specifically stixxay) has a habit of not showing up sometimes. Regular season they definitely aren't finishing 1st (I'd put 4 or 5 other teams ahead of them), playoffs is "iffy" as literally anything can happen.

P1 looks to be near unstoppable on paper, assuming C9 finishes first (which is highly likely as their roster is one of the few that got better during the offseason) they could definitely finish 2nd.

You have dignitas finishing third, for some reason. You are aware that Looper signed with echo fox, right? Looking at their roster (chaser/ssumday/keane/apollo/xpecial) they are in no way finishing ahead of many of the teams you mentioned (TL/C9C being things that legitimately made me laugh) and will probably finish 8-9th being ahead of the aformentioned echo fox (who may have Looper, but lack a jungler who can help the rest of the team through the mid-game).

I'll post my picks closer to the start of the season (even include my challenger ones once the rosters are all finalized), but even with a broad look at things yours are definitely way off.

III BAKURYU III Dec 18, 20161 votes

Kinda off on a few things maybe just definitely way off.

CLG may have average B- players but when a team forms it's about 1 for all and all for 1 something that some teams don't know what that means. Aphromoo lets his teammates call on some spots but I would bet he is the real voice of reason for CLG and everyone listens, when he talks everyone shuts up.
CLG was always a dominate team because of D-Lift but once he and also Pobelter left CLG in which half a year ago helped bring them to Worlds everyone thought they were going to suck. With 2 rookies (Huhi and Stixxay) CLG actually became a better team that the older team w/D-Lift would only dream of being.
Average players that beat Rox Tigers, beat Flash Wolves, SK Telecom T1 and other great teams this past year. Last year everyone underestimated them and yet they were made it to MSI finals.
I'm not going to be one of those people who underestimates them in the NA only scene when they did so well on the international stage.

I think Ssumday and Chaser are going to pretty much die alot for the team to get ahead and while I could make an argument that Apollo isn't a top ADC I would be fooling myself if I said that the DIG team isn't a stacked team. I mean we've all seen what happens to a NA team when it has 1 Korean player on the team now imagine having a TOP/JNG synergy in which that whole side of the map should be ok so the other 50% of the map with Keane/Apollo/Xpecial could help each other on the other side.

I'm not doing a Challenger scene predictions because IDK what teams are in the Challenger scene. I'v heard the C.scene will have 10 teams in it in which I'v only seen/heard of like 3-4 teams.

My prediction posts/rankings of teams was more of a rough draft but for the most part the standings are going to stay the same. NA has a funny way with dealing with the "visa" issues when it involves the lower teams but not for the Top teams like ( C9 and TSM) so If I hear word of DIG-PT etc etc are going to have "visa" issues I will most likely change a few things. However like I said for the most part I'm keeping it close to what I'v already said.

I will wait patiently on your predictions/rankings so we can compare our thoughts and see who was right the whole time ( most likely going to be you)

Have a good one and Happy Holidays !

BigBellBruteDec 17, 20161 votes

Lux reacts to your 10th place prediction for immortals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65weTZUbMTY

warpenguin555Dec 17, 20161 votes

hmmmm

im think more along the lines of Echo Fox going number 10. I dont think Looper is going to fix the problems that team had. But i will agree that i don think Immortals do very well.