Proplay Question

TenshouSNK·Dec 2, 2015·1 votes·1,376 views

hey guys, so with the 5.24 nerfs to Quinn, do you guys still think that she will be picked in competitive play? Allstars, springsplits, LCS, etc. Will the pros finally pick her and bring her into the spotlight?

32 Comments

PallyClerkDec 2, 20151 votes

no shes only good for solo que even on 5.23 too many better champions with better team comp fits instead of quin who can only really be used in certain comps. If you see it its most likely only because someone just wanted to play it.

TenshouSNKDec 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

no shes only good for solo que even on 5.23 too many better champions with better team comp fits instead of quin who can only really be used in certain comps. If you see it its most likely only because someone just wanted to play it.

so your saying that before the nerfs hit at 5.24, she had a higher chance to get picked right?

PallyClerkDec 2, 20151 votes

correct. But allstars is on 5.23 so theres that

TenshouSNKDec 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

correct. But allstars is on 5.23 so theres that

so do you think she will be picked by the pros in allstars?

PallyClerkDec 2, 20151 votes

id personally give it a 20% chance, then again its preseason so who knows what tricks teams have up their sleeves. Overall id just say I wouldnt expect it but there is a chance.

SSShutTheDuckUpDec 2, 20151 votes

She has very high winrate in soloQ, but pretty mediocre in ranked teams. When the enemy team is communicating properly her lane partner should be able to say "hey, botlane, some big-a*s bird is delivering a high-dmg-blinding cute girl (I do not care what u think, she is cute) towards you, bring yourselves under the turret".

But i love Quinn and i really hope to see her in proplayer hands.

Earl EulrichDec 2, 20151 votes

probably not, as most pros know how to play defensive in a losing matchup and if you don´t feed Quinn early on she really doesn´t do all that much in games.

though ofc we have seen a lot of Mundo-jungling in the IWC allstars - and as expected it failed rather horribly on a level were it´s very hard to get a snowball going. SO maybe some teams will try it, but my bet is that only teams that are favourites anyway will find success with it.

TenshouSNKDec 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-02T14:54:15.105+0000)

probably not, as most pros know how to play defensive in a losing matchup and if you don´t feed Quinn early on she really doesn´t do all that much in games.

though ofc we have seen a lot of Mundo-jungling in the IWC allstars - and as expected it failed rather horribly on a level were it´s very hard to get a snowball going. SO maybe some teams will try it, but my bet is that only teams that are favourites anyway will find success with it.

What lane will she be played in?

And which proplayer will pick her?

Earl EulrichDec 2, 20151 votes

the best use would be as a riven counter top, though as riven is sort of out of play it´s really hard to see someone making good use of her.

Ale non è maleDec 2, 20151 votes

Riven would be one of the worst match-up possible for Quinn on top lane. High mobility with the dashes that neglect Quinn's mobility advantage + Reliable CC with the knock-up + shield would mean a complete crush of Quinn early game on 1 vs 1, unless super heavy jungle pressure (but a smart Riven can evade that)

TenshouSNKDec 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-02T23:22:41.578+0000)

Riven would be one of the worst match-up possible for Quinn on top lane. High mobility with the dashes that neglect Quinn's mobility advantage + Reliable CC with the knock-up + shield would mean a complete crush of Quinn early game on 1 vs 1, unless super heavy jungle pressure (but a smart Riven can evade that)

What about against illaoi, will Quinn be picked to counter?

Ale non è maleDec 2, 20151 votes

Uhm, I don't think Illaoi would be a good enough match-up for Quinn to justify to pick her as a counter. It is true that Illaoi does not have reliable CC and Quinn has huge range and mobility advantage (and can also avoid lot of tentacle damage if Quinn player is good at sidestep), but it is also true that Quinn literaly can't misstep for a second because she can't really dive Illaoi to unleash her ulti damage and scale far worse than her, plus she would costantly push lane leaving herself vulnerable to ganks Also, if Quinn is ever hit once by Illaoi E she is done, and Illaoi E range is relevant for a relatively short range marksmen like Quinn

Basically it would be a reace for Quinn to push Illaoi out of the lane as fast as she can and take the tower down to then roam, hoping that this way Quinn team can clse the game fast enough before Illaoi outscale Quinn, and if Illaoi is ever picked in pro play, the pros that would play with her in a team will look to try to avoid this danger

Earl EulrichDec 2, 20151 votes

believe me, there´s nothing a riven can do vs an equal quinn player...you need all steps riven has to close the gap and you´ll get interrupted mid q3 every time to eat her whole combo.

Ale non è maleDec 2, 20151 votes

But the Riven can simply avoid a skilled Quinn player to get fed with the threat of an all-in dive (with eventual jungle help) and she gets definitively ahead in a pro play perspective because Quinn in late game isn't extremely powerful damage wise, especially after the changes kicking in, and need to expose herself to use her ulti dmg And if Quinn overextend even a bit, Riven can jump above her an delete her and once Riven eventually gets ahead there isn't anything Quinn can do in a 1 vs 1 Another thing to consider is that Quinn is mana gated, especially looking for her safety tools, while Riven can simply reset after a failed dive and try shortly after once abilities are off CD, while Quinn can't do it as easily

Earl EulrichDec 3, 20151 votes

But the Riven can simply avoid a skilled Quinn player to get fed

pretty much the reason why i said i can´t really see Quinn make a big impact on the pro-level, very similar to Mundo it´s a Champ that get´s rather useless if you do not feed it early on...she scales fairly well with pick/splitfight comps nowadays, so maybe some teams will use her, but i doubt she´ll gain much popularity. It seems you underestimate Quinn a tad though, she´s really not that punishable, not even by a worldclass Riven...which is pretty much the reason she sits at 70%winrate for experienced players.

TenshouSNKDec 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-03T00:04:41.134+0000)

pretty much the reason why i said i can´t really see Quinn make a big impact on the pro-level, very similar to Mundo it´s a Champ that get´s rather useless if you do not feed it early on...she scales fairly well with pick/splitfight comps nowadays, so maybe some teams will use her, but i doubt she´ll gain much popularity. It seems you underestimate Quinn a tad though, she´s really not that punishable, not even by a worldclass Riven...which is pretty much the reason she sits at 70%winrate for experienced players.

Well that sucks because I thought 2016 would be Quinn's spotlight and pro players would use her a lot.

Ale non è maleDec 3, 20151 votes

But the problem is not on Riven in general, it is on the specific match-up In another kind of match-up, even if Quinn does not get super fed, she can still retain somewhat of a strategic advantage vs most champs that face her, namely huge mobility to fit in some comps...but against riven, she don't get this advantage because Riven with her dashes can pretty much keep up with Quinn even in this aspect, thus basically nullifying any victory condition Quinn has in a pro play environment In pro play environment, Quinn in her best case scenario can only delay a bit Riven's powerspike (and Rivend espite being early to mid game oriented would still outscale Quinn late game), and in the worst case scenario is completely rekt by a successful early all-in by Riven that can then snowball upon that

And I am not underestimating Quinn, in solo Q with less vision and communication, she can use that tiny window of advantage to roam and punish Riven mates, but in pro play that window is far too small and Riven players are too smart for Quinn to achieve that trick

Earl EulrichDec 3, 20151 votes

i have to disagree here...Rivens is pretty similar to Quinn in pro-play, she needs to get a snowball going or it´s really almost impossible to make a comeback/her impact isn´t all that great. Both work very well in splitfights - Riven with her mobility, Quinn with her insane 1v1 fighting. The only difference is that Riven can also add sth. to WOmbo-Combos, but you rarly get those off in pro-play anyway. So no, Riven won´t outscale Quinn if her team picks accordingly (sth. like an Quinn, Ekko, Gragas, Vayne, Braum combo to split up fights and win or just 1/3/1 splitpush can work very well actually - just not as easy to execute as a siege comp).

Still, compared to sth. reliably strong like a malphite both of these suck in pro-play, so it´s unlickly that teams will go for them unless they are very confident that they´d win anyway or they are the absolute underdogs and have nothing to lose.

Ale non è maleDec 3, 20151 votes

Riven vs other champs? Yeah I can agree Riven vs Quinn? As long as Quinn doesn't snowball, and if Riven player is not too greedy it won't, there is close to no victory condition for Quinn Riven just can add the CC knock-up to what Quinn has to offer to her team, so it is a one sided comparison for Riven And when you talk about overall team composition, if someone let Ekko-Gragas-Vayne-Braum go without just picking something to counter them (es Trist on bot lane) than it's not up to the Riven vs Quinn match-up that goes in favor of Riven's team in all stages of the game, but it's up to a bad overall pick/ban phase from Riven's team

Speaking of Malphite, actually Quinn could just be a good counterpick to him as he would crush him pre-6 and force him out of lane (something Quinn can't do vs Riven), hugely delaying Malph powerspike and have a considerable window of time to win

Ale non è maleDec 2, 20151 votes

She is going to be surely used as a niche pick by someone competitively. That global mobility through ulti is something that will not be ignored forever in pro play, as splitpusher/roamer or to counter strong splitpushing comp she wil surely be used If 5.24 nerfs go through, Quinn simply lose any chance to become a meta pick like she could have in a possible future, and is just relegated to smaller niche picks forever till buffs

About what lane she will be used in...bot in some istances to replace a Sivir when not against hyper damage ADCs (but this will rare as long as the actuall meta ADCs remain the actual ones), or especially top against top laners with small range and without reliable stuns (for example against a Rumble) as counterpick

TenshouSNKDec 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-02T23:19:04.747+0000)

She is going to be surely used as a niche pick by someone competitively. That global mobility through ulti is something that will not be ignored forever in pro play, as splitpusher/roamer or to counter strong splitpushing comp she wil surely be used If 5.24 nerfs go through, Quinn simply lose any chance to become a meta pick like she could have in a possible future, and is just relegated to smaller niche picks forever till buffs

About what lane she will be used in...bot in some istances to replace a Sivir when not against hyper damage ADCs (but this will rare as long as the actuall meta ADCs remain the actual ones), or especially top against top laners with small range and without reliable stuns (for example against a Rumble) as counterpick

If Quinn is picked bit, will thresh be comboed with her?

Ale non è maleDec 2, 20151 votes

Thresh would be probably the stronger synergy with a support in a bot lane if Quinn is picked. His hook and his flay can stop an enemy in their position allowing Quinn to unleash safely the ulti damage and the entire combo to then vault back to safety, and even the ulti slowing the enemy help Quinn to accomplish that result

TenshouSNKDec 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-12-02T23:45:32.694+0000)

Thresh would be probably the stronger synergy with a support in a bot lane if Quinn is picked. His hook and his flay can stop an enemy in their position allowing Quinn to unleash safely the ulti damage and the entire combo to then vault back to safety, and even the ulti slowing the enemy help Quinn to accomplish that result

So if Quinn is getting chased by enemy team, she could vault towards/in direction of threshs lantern then click and escape? Does that mechanic work?

Ale non è maleDec 2, 20151 votes

Vault target enemies to knock them back, it is not a dash she can freely use wihout focusing a unit/champion/monster And it would not make sense for her to do that (Vault an enemy to then click thresh lantern) unless the enemies are literally on top of her and she can't reach the lantern just running, as the knockback range is shorter than the cast range

TenshouSNKDec 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-02T23:57:14.358+0000)

Vault target enemies to knock them back, it is not a dash she can freely use wihout focusing a unit/champion/monster And it would not make sense for her to do that (Vault an enemy to then click thresh lantern) unless the enemies are literally on top of her and she can't reach the lantern just running, as the knockback range is shorter than the cast range

How would she fair against Lucian? With thresh at her side

Ale non è maleDec 3, 20151 votes

In pro play, no chance she can perform well But I have to explain this better I think Quinn has all the tools to beat Lucian, as long as Lucian is in a state where he doesn't deal a LOT of damage...but if Lucian isn't in a OP state where he deals a lot of damage, he won't get picked in pro play over someone like Graves or Vayne So, in the end, IF Lucian is picked in pro play, it does mean that he is in a so powerful state damage wise that Quinn can't simply beat him; if Lucian isn't in that OP state, Quinn can pretty much beat him but anyway Lucian wouldn't not be picked by pros so anyway you wouldn't see a match-up between lucian and Quinn in a pro game (in a meta that favor Quinn)

TenshouSNKDec 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-03T16:07:20.180+0000)

In pro play, no chance she can perform well But I have to explain this better I think Quinn has all the tools to beat Lucian, as long as Lucian is in a state where he doesn't deal a LOT of damage...but if Lucian isn't in a OP state where he deals a lot of damage, he won't get picked in pro play over someone like Graves or Vayne So, in the end, IF Lucian is picked in pro play, it does mean that he is in a so powerful state damage wise that Quinn can't simply beat him; if Lucian isn't in that OP state, Quinn can pretty much beat him but anyway Lucian wouldn't not be picked by pros so anyway you wouldn't see a match-up between lucian and Quinn in a pro game (in a meta that favor Quinn)

So do you think Quinn will be picked by pros in competitive play in the coming weeks/months?

Ale non è maleDec 4, 20151 votes

Definitively yes, but I think she will be some niche and/or cheese pick to use against certain match-ups, and we don't know if/what of these favourbale match-up could happen yet because it will depend on the pro play meta that will still don't know since we are still in the middle of the preseason For example, if Rumble becomes again a dominant pick on top lane, I can see Quinn used a lot to counterpick him as top laner, if top lane meta shift towards another type of champions Quinn could not see play at all as top laner

TenshouSNKDec 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T16:48:14.594+0000)

Definitively yes, but I think she will be some niche and/or cheese pick to use against certain match-ups, and we don't know if/what of these favourbale match-up could happen yet because it will depend on the pro play meta that will still don't know since we are still in the middle of the preseason For example, if Rumble becomes again a dominant pick on top lane, I can see Quinn used a lot to counterpick him as top laner, if top lane meta shift towards another type of champions Quinn could not see play at all as top laner

So if Quinn becomes a Meta pick, then that means she will start getting bans everywhere in champ select right?

And if she becomes meta, that means she has joined the pro play scene spotlight for 2016 right?

Ale non è maleDec 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So if Quinn becomes a Meta pick, then that means she will start getting bans everywhere in champ select right?

And if she becomes meta, that means she has joined the pro play scene spotlight for 2016 right?

Even if Quinn becomes meta she is not the kind of champ that will get bans "everywhere", to be honest, there will always be higher priorities bans around there

TenshouSNKDec 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Qe9V3PwI,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-05T09:53:35.217+0000)

Even if Quinn becomes meta she is not the kind of champ that will get bans "everywhere", to be honest, there will always be higher priorities bans around there

do you think she will become meta?

Ale non è maleDec 5, 20151 votes

As I have yet said, it is difficult to predict, because at best she'll be the counter pick for meta champs, imho