TSM Needs an Overhaul

Xonra·Oct 10, 2015·5 votes·1,114 views

Like to the Level Curse had over the years, but I'm not sure if that is possible.

Loco - It is becoming apparent that Loco can't ever get caught up on current patches and seems to plan his pick/ban a patch or two behind, and his strategies in pick ban have been pretty poor for the majority of 2015 (#MSIneverforget)
Dyrus - Dyrus is retiring, but I think he likely should have at the start of the split. I'm no TSM hater, but it was a bit selfish to come back and not give them a chance to pick someone up that they NEED desperately. He was a pretty clear liability all year.
Bjergsen - Great player, no one can argue that. TERRIBLE shot caller. They need to pick someone up that can do this, and Santorin can't, and Lustboy barely speaks english. Anyone that says shotcalling isn't important hasn't been watching C9. Keep Bjergsen, but he 100% shouldn't be the shotcaller.
Santorin - Santorin is fine on his own, but he just doesn't mesh with TSM, which I think is partially to blame for their issues (the meshing, not Santorin). Bjerg wants to play aggressive, Santorin is super passive, and those playstyles are obvious watching their "refusing to fight sort of" all the time moments.
Lustboy - Haven't been impressed since they picked him up outside of maybe part of one split. This is why I'm not a fan of players being picked up because of "who you know" in the case of Lustboy only coming over because he is good friends with Loco. Needs replacing for communication's sake if nothing else.
Turtle - Poor Turtle. I get he can be over aggressive, but it can work if his team didn't play so scared 90% of the game when they group. Doesn't help he can barely communicate with his laner, which is Lustboy's fault for still not learning after being on the team over a year now. He gets almost as much blame as Dyrus lately, and I think him and Bjerg are the only ones doing it right play wise.

Everything from top to bottom is majorly broken outside of 50% of turtle, and Bjerg minus his shotcalling, because you can't force a quiet shy kid to shotcall and expect that to work. I feel bad for TSM because they have lots of good pieces, but most of those pieces don't seem to fit the same puzzle.

16 Comments

TrevaTheRuinerOct 10, 20154 votes

I definitely agree with most of what you said.

Honestly I think Dyrus is pretty good, other than feeding a few early kills in 1v1 or 2v1 in many games. Hes solid in the team fights and decent with his TPs, and CS.

Lustboy needs to go for sure. It must be the language barrier, but he seems to have no chemistry with the team, especially Turtle and Santorin. Same with Loco.. #NewCoachDyrus ?? Hes very dedicated so I could see it working.

Keep Santorin IMO. He had some periods of really good play during the spring/summer split. Near the end his play seems to fall, but I tihnk with meta shifts he can make an easy comeback.

KinjishiOct 11, 20153 votes

New coach Lemonation would be great. : ) Hai could coach C9.

XonraOct 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=M1yd3QVt,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-11T01:45:53.986+0000)

New coach Lemonation would be great. : ) Hai could coach C9.

Lemon is likely going to be coaching C9.

It is a pretty likely scenario that he will as Charlie is already out and moved to the challenger team, assuming Bubbadub doesn't move there and charlie pushed out entirely (they didn't like charlie's pick ban at all, which Lemon took over half way through the split anyways, then they sort of demoted him to the B team).

XonraOct 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I definitely agree with most of what you said.

Honestly I think Dyrus is pretty good, other than feeding a few early kills in 1v1 or 2v1 in many games. Hes solid in the team fights and decent with his TPs, and CS.

Lustboy needs to go for sure. It must be the language barrier, but he seems to have no chemistry with the team, especially Turtle and Santorin. Same with Loco.. #NewCoachDyrus ?? Hes very dedicated so I could see it working.

Keep Santorin IMO. He had some periods of really good play during the spring/summer split. Near the end his play seems to fall, but I tihnk with meta shifts he can make an easy comeback.

Agreed. I think Lustboy needs to go 100%, keep Santorin. He isn't bad, he is just passive and needs guidance, and Bjerg is not the best shotcaller yet so I imagine that isn't helping yet.

Loco needs to go home with Lustboy. Not sure what is going on with the toplane, but as we know, Dyrus is 100% retired as of earlier on Saturday, so that is 1 change they will be making regardless.

I really wish Bjergsen was moving to say, Liquid (not saying it would ever happen). they just need that one carry threat and the language barrier I think keeps Fenix from being that when he has flashes of good. Also Dom is a good shotcaller, just not great in pick ban (which was 99% the ex coaches fault which will get resolved). That's just one of those wishful thinking things, but wanted to toss it out there :P

LuggOct 11, 20153 votes

I see a complete rebuild coming from TSM in the off season if they are smart.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bjerg left so he could be on a team with a chance to win Worlds. The only reason I can see for him to stay is lots of money, new coaching, and the organization committing to bringing in top tier talent.

XonraOct 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I see a complete rebuild coming from TSM in the off season if they are smart.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bjerg left so he could be on a team with a chance to win Worlds. The only reason I can see for him to stay is lots of money, new coaching, and the organization committing to bringing in top tier talent.

I imagine they are simply going to replace top lane, and from how much regi and Loco were arguing, I wouldn't be surprised to see loco for one more split at most. If Loco goes, then Lustboy won't stay, and possibly the other way around as well at this point (they are rl really good friends).

Gotta replace Dyrus, but with who I have no idea, they can't import anyone, and might have to replace support sooner rather than later. They gotta find some NA talent, and as we all know, NA is not known for our great top laners.

LuggOct 11, 20151 votes

TSM has plenty of money to bring in someone from another region. Wildturtle is too inconsistent, Keith will probably be the ADC next year. I also think that Santorum may be replaced as well.

XonraOct 11, 20151 votes

[deleted]

LuggOct 11, 20151 votes

I didn't hear about that.

TSM really screwed the pooch not keeping Keith in the lineup. He was doing WAY better than Turtle.

GrashnimOct 10, 20152 votes

Totally Screaming Mayday (TSM).

AkabaneKunOct 10, 20151 votes

They need more Korean haha, let's be realistic that's what always works in the end, more Korean.

TheSequelsRBadOct 10, 20151 votes

Ask Team Liquid if that is how it works, and LGD.

AkabaneKunOct 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ask Team Liquid if that is how it works, and LGD.

LGD won when they put double the korean.

TheSequelsRBadOct 10, 20151 votes

Ok, bad example.

XonraOct 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Ask Team Liquid if that is how it works, and LGD.

I think it is actually working out okay for Liquid. They might not have finished first after playoffs, but they've never finished first in the reg season. Improvement is improvement, especially given they had a new adc and mid, Quas, is just now fully and fluently speaking english, and Dom improved a lot throughout the season.

LGD got to worlds. That is more than a lot of teams in a lot of regions can say.

I also never said Liquid changed and was instantly good, I was merely talking about what happened, and they DID improve, and likely will continue to so shrugs.