This finals was an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with season 9.

Play from work·Nov 10, 2019·78 votes·18,487 views

Way too much damage and a perma gank meta where Lee Sin loses out on nothing by spending more time setting up ganks than farming.

The damage being way over the top.

Vision being gutted to the point where it's way too easy for jungle pressure to turn the tables.

Even pro players suffering from the effects of "top lane being camped" with the losing bot still being nigh on hopeless for the top laner to try and carry.

And don't forget Lee Sin and Kaisa being absolute cancer to play against but have been left unchecked for some reason.

This finals was an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with how impactful jungle is in invalidating teams and how easy it is to set top laners behind merely by forcing them to "play safe". Turret plating leading to uncontrollable snowballs, and sky high damage which makes this into a game of seek and destroy.

52 Comments

LostInTheDark07Nov 10, 201932 votes

I wonder why is RIOT forcing us to watch LeeSin every single year at worlds, while they "don't force meta", mhm sure RIOT buffing Lee Sin to the point of beyond broken. Also "jungle role sucks", in the meantime at worlds junglers have the most impact in the game, camping jungler > afk farming jungler, I was sick of watching every game almost 10 stop watches every game ruining the fights. Delete that thing from the game already. It s so stupid to see how much impact junglers have, they can literally decide which lanes are winning or not or which lanes to put behind just via pressure also spending more time camping than farming must be so much fun.

Tomoe GozenNov 10, 201912 votes

So what, a Jungler shouldn't have an impact on the game? What do you want them to do in the Jungle, besides ganking? Farming the entire game?

The problem that i have with this kind of reasoning is that "snowballing" is the result of lanes actually getting ahead and keeping the lead and translating it into more wins somewhere else, if they're willing to roam. So people say this is bad and that Riot should FORCE more neutral lanes despite the kills of said champions.

And then people come out and complain about the exact opposite, where 1/10 Vayne getting to the late game and sucking the entire time, keeping her head down until she gets her core items, now wiping the teams clean off the face of the map because they don't focus her in fights, calling her OP for doing her job. Or Fiora being able to duel you if she gets her items, despite not "winning" her lane.

What is the preferable gameplay here? People want the exact opposites in games and what they want depends on what other thing is rubbing them the wrong way.

Where is this mythical golden middle that Riot should strive for, in order to make games more fair? Eliminate Jungle entirely? Force 2v2s top too? Not give gold from objectives or force 40+ minute long games in order to give an illusion that both teams can win if they try hard enough?

The23rdGamerNov 10, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KTPAGngX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-10T22:19:50.165+0000)

So what, a Jungler shouldn't have an impact on the game? What do you want them to do in the Jungle, besides ganking? Farming the entire game?

The problem that i have with this kind of reasoning is that "snowballing" is the result of lanes actually getting ahead and keeping the lead and translating it into more wins somewhere else, if they're willing to roam. So people say this is bad and that Riot should FORCE more neutral lanes despite the kills of said champions.

And then people come out and complain about the exact opposite, where 1/10 Vayne getting to the late game and sucking the entire time, keeping her head down until she gets her core items, now wiping the teams clean off the face of the map because they don't focus her in fights, calling her OP for doing her job. Or Fiora being able to duel you if she gets her items, despite not "winning" her lane.

What is the preferable gameplay here? People want the exact opposites in games and what they want depends on what other thing is rubbing them the wrong way.

Where is this mythical golden middle that Riot should strive for, in order to make games more fair? Eliminate Jungle entirely? Force 2v2s top too? Not give gold from objectives or force 40+ minute long games in order to give an illusion that both teams can win if they try hard enough?

This is the answer we deserve, but not the answer we want. Good on you for speaking some sense.

IainG10Nov 11, 20198 votes

The problem is both of them are right, for exactly the same reason Riot keeps Kalista dumpstered; what is good in SoloQ and what is good as a 5-man with comms are very much not the same thing.

In SoloQ playing jungle is an absolute shit-show where you have to be able to on your own carry yourself plus up to 3 other lanes; in 5-man the entire team functions as one, and as such the jungler can have a huge amount of impact. In Solo your Top will most likely cry at you if they get camped, even if you use that presence to focus drake and the Bot-side; in 5-man the Top usually recognises the advantage keeping the enemy jungler near them gives and plays around it.

Basically, it's the fact that if something more supportive is really viable in SoloQ, it is truly oppressive in 5-man (see Sejuani, Galio at his low points, Kalista, most other tank Junglers); to keep things that require coordination balanced in 5-man they basically HAVE to suck to play Solo. And since most of the Boards are Solo players, most of what you'll see on here is 'Jungle is so bad to play!'

Tomoe GozenNov 11, 20194 votes

So, is the solution to this problem to clearly keep champions SoloQ or pro play viable? The thing with OP's thread then is that the complain is that Lee Sin is clearly OP because G2 lost 3 games consecutively by letting him get picked by FPX. So is he the same problematic champion in soloQ or is the OP only complaining about the "boring" 3 games he watched during Worlds?

If Riot's guilty of "forcing" flashy champions into the meta, why is also the Boards so adamant and complaining to Riot when Sejuani was viable? So they wanted to remove a champion from the meta, because they're tired seeing her in every game. But i guess that is only OK when the Boards demand it, not when Riot decides to put a champion in.

I'd really like to know where this golden middle of balance is, how much champions are allowed to assist or farm and yet, not stomp on someone's toes too hard and be actually "boards' balance approved". Because my belief is that no such middle exists.

You can't have champions who are in the exact middle because they end up being jack of all trades and masters of none. Champions who have a little bit of everything in their kit in order to have an option to respond to different situations and end up being problems for balance because they have too much stuff.

IainG10Nov 11, 20193 votes

Lee is THE example of where Riot have gone severely wrong; because his plays are so flashy, they are willing to let him sit far above the bar in terms of balance. He is pretty free LP in Solo/Duo if you can play him; because of his stats and scalings he has a low skill floor for the height of his skill ceiling (i.e. it's not hard to do well with him, and played properly he destroys games).

Whilst this is a problem, he generally doesn't have too much Boards hate because he used to have a proper risk-reward ratio (back when inSec made a name for the ward-hop-into-R play); his bullshit status is due to Riot wanting more plays like that to be possible even with power and mobility creep.

Seju is not a risky in-and-out style champion; she hard engages, ults a carry to lock them down for the team, then just sits there absorbing damage; when she is viable in Solo (i.e. doesn't require team backup to have an effect on the game) she feels like facing a wall that fell on you.

Lee and Seju are the difference between being hit by a thrown rock and a thrown knife; both will hurt, both require skill, but for some reason one feels like it needs more skill than the other.

Play from workNov 11, 20193 votes

No, the solution is to fucking provide voice chat so the jungler can actually tell you he's going for the dragon so you can hold the opponent jungler hostage top side by playing passive-aggressive.

This isn't a team based game without voice chat, no matter how much you guys may hate the idea.

SMURFF NAME HERENov 11, 20192 votes

You don't have to die or even burn flash to a gank for that gank to seriously ruin your entire lane. If the enemy jungler is topside you now can't contest the wave, your opponent can do whatever they want with it. They can now stack up 3 waves in a huge slowpush and have the jungler come and dive you.

Even if you ward everything out, read the dive and back off you're still losing: 3 entire waves under tower(450ish gold, more than half a level in XP early) probably 2 plates if your opponent has demolish(320 gold)

So now you're down 770 gold, more than 2 and a half kills worth of gold AND xp and the jungler hasn't even touched you. The only dragon that's even remotely worth it in this situation is Infernal, mountain isn't even that great in soloQ because people don't play around baron in the same way. Because towerdiving is so easy you can't just stay under tower and try to outplay the dive, you have to back off all the way to your tier 2 and cry as you miss a ton of gold and experience. Voice chat would in no way fix this issue, it would just piss people off when their lane is 100% over at 0/0/0 and the jungler just says "dw guys I got ocean drake xd".

Tomoe GozenNov 11, 20191 votes

The Voice Chat exists but only for premades. And that was done due to Riot not having systems in place to moderate voice chat, in the same manner as they can do with written chat.

Pika FoxNov 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KTPAGngX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-10T22:19:50.165+0000)

So what, a Jungler shouldn't have an impact on the game? What do you want them to do in the Jungle, besides ganking? Farming the entire game?

The problem that i have with this kind of reasoning is that "snowballing" is the result of lanes actually getting ahead and keeping the lead and translating it into more wins somewhere else, if they're willing to roam. So people say this is bad and that Riot should FORCE more neutral lanes despite the kills of said champions.

And then people come out and complain about the exact opposite, where 1/10 Vayne getting to the late game and sucking the entire time, keeping her head down until she gets her core items, now wiping the teams clean off the face of the map because they don't focus her in fights, calling her OP for doing her job. Or Fiora being able to duel you if she gets her items, despite not "winning" her lane.

What is the preferable gameplay here? People want the exact opposites in games and what they want depends on what other thing is rubbing them the wrong way.

Where is this mythical golden middle that Riot should strive for, in order to make games more fair? Eliminate Jungle entirely? Force 2v2s top too? Not give gold from objectives or force 40+ minute long games in order to give an illusion that both teams can win if they try hard enough?

What they want is whatever helps them win the game they currently played

SloggNov 11, 201911 votes

{quoted}

I wonder why is RIOT forcing us to watch every single year at worlds, while they "don't force meta", mhm sure RIOT buffing Lee Sin to the point of beyond broken. Also "jungle role sucks", in the meantime at worlds junglers have the most impact in the game, camping jungler > afk farming jungler, I was sick of watching every game almost 10 stop watches every game ruining the fights. Delete that thing from the game already. It s so stupid to see how much impact junglers have, they can literally decide which lanes are winning or not or which lanes to put behind just via pressure also spending more time camping than farming must be so much fun.

People, and more specifically junglers like myself, don't say JG sucks because of how impactful it can be. They say it is trash because it is entirely dependent on your laners. If you are the JG on the other end of the equation, you are 100% useless because of just how far ahead the other jungler gets upon successful ganks, ad thus by extension, how far ahead laners get.

Since farming is essentially a waste of time because of the lack of XP, the other JG has no recourse beyond a miracle to get back into the game because ganking losing lanes usually ends in disaster, and the lanes you need to gank the other JG is also camping them, except he's a level higher than you are(at a minimum) and probably an item which means you are, yet again, asking for the grey screen.

It's a frustrating play experience for most junglers.

LankPantsNov 11, 20199 votes

Not even to mention that you're basically forced to play hyper aggressive every game. There's no such thing as a farming/scaling jungler anymore. You have to play Lee Sin or J4 and gank lanes all the time to be effective. That fucking sucks.

SKT T1 FTWNov 24, 20191 votes

lmao twitch jungle got me to plat from silver 4 dude, in a single season I started around season 7 and I was silver 4 in season 8 I abused twitch and played so damn aggressive I literally won free games I got to plat lmaoo in a single season

GilxeNNov 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I wonder why is RIOT forcing us to watch every single year at worlds, while they "don't force meta", mhm sure RIOT buffing Lee Sin to the point of beyond broken. Also "jungle role sucks", in the meantime at worlds junglers have the most impact in the game, camping jungler > afk farming jungler, I was sick of watching every game almost 10 stop watches every game ruining the fights. Delete that thing from the game already. It s so stupid to see how much impact junglers have, they can literally decide which lanes are winning or not or which lanes to put behind just via pressure also spending more time camping than farming must be so much fun.

I love your tunnel-visioning only that fact Lee was only picked champ, ask yourself why?

FPX didnt changed jungle roster, because they banned G2's core jungle champs, coincidence? NOT.

They played around top to deny impact for the late game.

Why would some one change core game play if it succcessfuly worked in the past game?

FPX simply just had stronger pressure within objectives, it was not only Jungler who won their game, their whole team just simply did less mistakes which lead to the victory.

EDIT:

Jankos Elise pick in my opinion completely denied their whole jungle control.

NoobDefaultNov 11, 201917 votes

[{quoted}](name=Play from work,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KTPAGngX,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-10T16:37:25.780+0000)

Way too much damage and a perma gank meta where Lee Sin loses out on nothing by spending more time setting up ganks than farming.

The damage being way over the top.

Vision being gutted to the point where it's way too easy for jungle pressure to turn the tables.

Even pro players suffering from the effects of "top lane being camped" with the losing bot still being nigh on hopeless for the top laner to try and carry.

And don't forget Lee Sin and Kaisa being absolute cancer to play against but have been left unchecked for some reason.

This finals was an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with how impactful jungle is in invalidating teams and how easy it is to set top laners behind merely by forcing them to "play safe". Turret plating leading to uncontrollable snowballs, and sky high damage which makes this into a game of seek and destroy.

I like how when turret plating was being introduced and I pointed out exactly ended up happening. More gold = more snowballs.

How did the community respond? Apparently it was enough evidence that I should kill myself. Ohhh how the tables have turned.

Play from workNov 11, 20195 votes

Turret plating was the single shittiest addition to League over the last two years. There's literally nothing healthy about it and was a crap change thrown out for the sake of innovation.

frackphoneverifiNov 10, 201915 votes

for years now i have felt riot has been much too heavy handed in how they enforced the meta. often times the balance changes feel very biased.

the power of early game objectives and snowballing. the obvious favoritism to certain champs/early game/mobile champs. the outright ignoring of problem champs. the buffs to champs before new skins. and quick nerfs to less popular champs or champs that are not riot favorites, when they see the slightest success even when its not necessary op, maybe just unconventional.

riot has forced a very quick meta that requires very sharp play early game or you get stomped due to the snowball..this is very anti fun and takes away a lot of the player choices. its almost to a point that if you dont pick,play,do and build the way that riot wants you too then its basically a very quick and forced loss.

3TWarriorNov 12, 20193 votes

Malphite stats were average across the board with the only high point being his 8% ban rate ...nerf

and there are others with time

Troll SlaiyerNov 10, 20198 votes

just make me ssome more sexy akali skins thats all i want zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

FireDrizzleNov 11, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Troll Slaiyer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KTPAGngX,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-10T22:29:07.726+0000)

just make me ssome more sexy akali skins thats all i want zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sexy? Compare original Nurse Akali vs current.

IntocabilleNov 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Sexy? Compare original Nurse Akali vs current.

Don't even start about that one... I miss old Nurse Akali so much... the new one looks like a character that should be in SkullgIrls fighting game...

PredatoratorNov 10, 20197 votes

"$ome rea$on" huh?

Tr4shB4NSYST3MNov 11, 20195 votes

It wasn't just the jg, it was the JG/MID duo, Repeated 3 man dives top, repeated 4man botlanes. Its been going on in the LPL for 2 years, constantly looking for the roam/outnumber play to snowball the game, to some degree it was a playstyle G2 also used successfully, but they went up against a team that had better picks for it and better execution and they lost.

Moody PNov 11, 20193 votes

Tanks in mid lane don't forget that

AdamrCcNov 11, 20199 votes

Honestly, I couldn't give a shit about where which champion went. It's that people who exclusively play LoL are so hell bent on forcing themselves in a 1-1-2 meta, it's almost as if they believe not playing an assassin/mage mid, and AD carry + support is trolling.

I'd love to see a forced meta getting broken. We'd probably see it broken a long time ago if not for ADC mains crying about restricting bot to marksmen.

Chromatic EagleNov 11, 20192 votes

The problem is where should adc mains go if they're not viable bot lane? No one wants them top.

AdamrCcNov 11, 20192 votes

They are viable in the bot lane, and more than viable top.

Literally every ADC from Tristana to Lucian to Vayne shit on melee champions the moment they get picked top. Let's not play the victim here merely because some of these champions have a low winrate. It doesn't necessarily mean that these champs are weak. Certain AD carries also perform incredibly well in the midlane. Lucian , Tristana , Ezreal , and Corki have seen plenty play in mid lane over the last couple of seasons, and are still viable to this day.

t's just that ADC players hardly take the time to learn macro. Most ADC mains I come across have not the slightest clue on what efficient wave management looks like, they hardly try to learn to keep a track of the jungler, and almost never seem to know to play classes other than ADC.

Top laners live, breathe, and bathe in jungle pressure and such bullshit matchups they are forced to improve their macro to a point where they start to build a solid understanding of how playing to your champions advantages and covering up for your weaknesses work. That's the only reason when AD carry mains take their Vayne top lane they still get shat on. They just don't understand how bad top lane has it and how top laners have to deal with literally every fucking class of champion being played there, ready to counterpick at a moment's notice. Even when I play top and lock in an immobile champ such as Darius I'm fully prepared to face a Vayne trying to cheese me with a plan on how to play the game in case I mess up and fall behind.

Chromatic EagleNov 11, 20191 votes

They are viable in the bot lane

I'm saying that when you push other champions into the bot lane, adcs get pushed out.

Literally every ADC from to to shit on melee champions the moment they get picked top.

Right, and top laners hate it.

You don't think a new meta where melee go bot, and range go top more often is a problem?

InfernapeNov 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KTPAGngX,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T23:21:53.732+0000)

I'm saying that when you push other champions into the bot lane, adcs get pushed out.

To be fair, this is the same shit every other role deals with every so often. Top changes between tanks, fighters, marksmen, mages etc. Jungle does the same and adds assassins into the mix as does mid lane. Hell, even supports have different classes in meta at times. Why should ADCs get a free pass?

AdamrCcNov 11, 20191 votes

The reason a lot of melee champions don't go bot lane is because they get shat on by ranged carries. That's a problem with how ranged vs melee interactions work and not something which requires for a 1-1-2 meta to be enforced.

If more melee units had the tools to deal with range spam then they would go bot more often. You do see the Yasuo and Garen Yuumi cheese pick go bot and still try to hold their own, and that's because these champions when played right can actually deal with the ranged spam.

3TWarriorNov 12, 20191 votes

it's not that they can deal with it...it's that they invalidate it with their own means

garen can heal off damage pretty quickly and has very high burst damage if he can get to a target, so if a play happens, it's almost GARENteed to result in forcing the opponent out of lane or even a kill

yasuo can block over 70% of all ranged damage in the game for 4 seconds at a time and is difficult to hit with skillshots so long as there are minions or enemies present

Chromatic EagleNov 11, 20191 votes

Okay, so if adcs get phased out of bot lane, where would you want them to go? Mid? Top? Jungle?

3TWarriorNov 12, 20192 votes

not being a mandatory class is one option. We've gotten to NEAR that point and it involved a lot of ludicrous changes to do it

SKT T1 FTWNov 24, 20191 votes

what is " efficient wave management" ?

Moon MomNov 11, 20191 votes

Sad thing is you're right.

"Tanks don't exist."

Conqueor getting basically gutted in s9, dragon powers reduced severely until 4 next season, Aftershock scaling better on tanks now.. and yet, a tank sees play mid several times where mages belong. Draintanking damage and not 'dying quickly'

I think the boards overblows damage creep by a lot. It's way better than it was season 8.

elect nerfs, stat nerfs on all runes, etc.

Tanks will rise in season 10 and the boards will just cry about them being nerfed.

GForce9xNov 11, 20192 votes

I personally think Stopwatch is the most cancerous thing to happen to league in a while. I've always been fine with Zhonya's because you have to dedicate your build to it. But when everyone on the enemy team has one, it can be such a game changing item for a mere 600 gold (or for free if you have the rune). I can't think of any other item in the game that can potentially have such a massive impact, such as turning a critical teamfight (i.e. AD carry getting caught out of position) or causing a dive to go horribly wrong.

I'm on the fence with having it as a shop item since unless you are building toward a Zhonya's, you are setting yourself behind in your build. However, I always thought that runes were meant to be minor/moderate enhancements to your champ, but not something that should make or break the outcome of a game. It's not even a keystone so you aren't really sacrificing much to have it.

I think stopwatch as an item (or at the very lease, the rune) needs to be removed. What scares me is the chance that Riot decides to just give one to everyone. They did that with gold generation several seasons ago... when everyone was buying phil stone and heart of gold (and in some cases avrice blade), they just removed the items and increased gold generation across the board. In a way they did that with wards by giving everyone trinkets.

Granted that a lot of people don't always use it optimally, kinda like how someone burns their flash when they are guaranteed to die anyways. However, it does kinda reward poor play by letting people get caught out of position and not get aptly punished for it as well as not rewarding well-planned plays like ganks/dives simply because someone got a free item for doing but play for 10 minutes.

Maybe I am just overreacting to seeing it being used at games where the highest level of play is on display, but for something that potentially powerful to cost 600/free just doesn't sit well with me.

RequiemsfireNov 11, 20191 votes

It's an amalgamation of G2 drafting poorly and misplaying where it mattered. The finals are by no means a telling of the meta when the level of play isn't even that high from pro teams. Stop writing excuses for G2 and stop confirmation bias.

Then if all of what you're saying is true how come we never saw any of it in game 2 where G2 literally drafted to win all their lanes?

MadraNov 11, 20191 votes

I think that there might be a few characters that Riot needs to look at that have a combination of too much crowd control, base damage, mobility and tankiness. This finals was a pretty rotten end to a pretty rotten season.

ToolmakerNov 11, 20191 votes

Seek and Destroy sounds like a fun game mode. :0

AdamrCcNov 11, 20191 votes

That's what Mobile Legends is for though.

JRT SmurfNov 11, 20191 votes

i remember old times when i started playing league . season 6 i think . if u were jungle u had to choose to farm and get powerful urself or choose to gank and make ur teammates powerful but put ur self behind from enemy jungler who is focused on farming. u couldnt have both. but now u can camp one lane dont farm at all . making enemy top laner completly useless and make him hate his life and still be ahead from farmer enemy jungler both in exp and in gold. and this is just one of the things that fucked the game

Play from workNov 15, 20191 votes

You literally can't powerfarm as a jungler these days. I tried playing jungle Jax, and its been a terrible experience.

After I'd bought a Tiamat and cleared most of my camps, I'd hardly see them respawn fast enough in order for me to path back. Glad to see they're changing this in the pre season.

Tilting4DummiesNov 11, 20191 votes

What I don't think anyone realizes is that Hashinshin has been saying all of these exact things ALL SEASON, not in response to a single shitty worlds match.

nGioNov 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What I don't think anyone realizes is that Hashinshin has been saying all of these exact things ALL SEASON, not in response to a single shitty worlds match.

Hashinshin? He's the prophet that warned of us too much damage and junglers basically becoming additional laners with no penalty? It's been every other post on the front page for like 2 fuckin years! Anyone who has played a single game in the last couple of seasons has figured this out. Did everyone think that damage was too low until a popular streamer enlightened us?

Play from workNov 15, 20191 votes

I agree with a few things Hashinshin says and he's usually right about top lane.

The way jungle and top lane interact is absolute bullcrap. Top lane can't roam, has no important reoccurring objective to capitalize on, and is a very easy victim to jungle pressure. Even in the highest level of play top lane does jackshit when the jungler makes sure to ruin the day.

SupërMëwKittyNov 11, 20191 votes

I like Braum junglor Braum with the item 1416 and item 3077 is punchu punchy stun

IntocabilleNov 12, 20191 votes

I thought that the generally accepted view on 1-1-2 meta is that is was created (by accident by rito) because Dragons became too important. I still remember when it was Marskmen on mid... in the olden times... when Ashe was designated as ADC/Support (yeah that's right, Senna, you so called "first" adc/support). Why marskmen don't go mid anymore aside from few exceptions? Not sure. In my opinion it was safety issue at first? They are too squishy and usually didn't have many peeling options that worked that well. So getting bursted by mages and jungler was too obvious. Being in bot lane, aside from the dragons, it eliminates sort of one direction of approach.

To the opening post: Why Lee Sin so much? Because rito loves their "omg wtf bbq 360 no scope" (yes, wrong game I know) replays.

ColteNov 12, 20191 votes

i miss sejuani and nidalee jungle, im sick of the leesin meta

GilxeNNov 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

i miss sejuani and nidalee jungle, im sick of the leesin meta

Lee Sin META, what I see only Kayns, Rengars, Kha'Zix, Vi's in my games.

Full BrainNov 12, 20191 votes

Yeah that roaming Nautilus mid ruining everyones games.

All of the discussions surrounding this game are fairly unimportant because the real issue is that a jungle exists in the first place. It was fine when almost no one could kill the monsters early on but ever since Riot started forcing the game out of double roaming supportive characters with jungle and summoner spell changes SR has been trash. Removing jungle aside from large monsters, making duo lane gold shared, and getting rid of all of the items created to supplement the existence of flawed systems for support and jungle is how you make the game fun to play again.

Rito doesn't care about fun to play though they want those 1v3 ganks for their tv show. They don't care that the complete inability to have real coordination in regular matches makes this game design a horrible experience. It is why teleport is the only macro play summoner spell left because people use it for big counter gank plays for the tv show.