And with that, FNC has the same record as TSM.

SuperJediNinja·Oct 4, 2015·27 votes·3,926 views

Monte was wrong again

NA is statistically the second best region at worlds second only to Korea

#7 NA > #1 undefeated regular season EU

The EU>NA meme should be dead

NA is stronger than China right now?

76 Comments

SasogwaOct 4, 201511 votes

Some teams are performingly better or worse than what we usually see of them. Example: Origen/C9 are performing really great, Fnatic/LGD are really disappointing

SuperJediNinjaOct 4, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Some teams are performingly better or worse than what we usually see of them. Example: Origen/C9 are performing really great, Fnatic/LGD are really disappointing

THE GODS! THEY BLEEEEDDDDD

HighH1Oct 5, 20153 votes

Not all of them cough cough SKT T1 cough cough

Hard PenetratorOct 5, 20152 votes

They still look weaker than skt in s3 or Samsung in s4

Chespin2013Oct 5, 20151 votes

Did you not watch MSI?

aítchOct 6, 20151 votes

THEY WILL BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED item 3072

SlappybiscuitOct 4, 20156 votes

Coming from NA and someone who enjoys both regions, can the NA>EU meme be dead too? While we're at it, can all the spam memes die a cold painful death.

RisenDarkKnightOct 4, 20153 votes

Seriously, twitch chat is the worst, because you never actually say anything because the entire chat is 99% full of memes that fill up the whole screen so quickly. I don't get why people enjoy copying stuff other people came up with and repeatedly pasting into chat. All it does is make it impossible to have a real conversation.

Angry MonsterOct 5, 20151 votes

no this one must not end till C9 is done

༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ C9.....take my energy.....༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

Chespin2013Oct 5, 20151 votes

Lets just make a new meme "FOR THE WEST!" there that's better

LauchmelderOct 4, 20155 votes

This is so full of shit.

Korea isn't the best region any more, it's china. So max #3 for NA.

Then add to it that C9 did not deserve the win against Fnatic at all (both baron calls were bad, Hai pls...) and a Darius that can get back into the game after 1 minor mistake from Fnatic. EU played better but lost to bad luck.

Daedalus871Oct 4, 201510 votes

If they played better, the would of won.

LauchmelderOct 4, 20154 votes

Fnatic did not do half as much bad plays than C9. C9 got luck and Darius, that's all there is to it. (And to add to that, C9 games are the most boring to watch atm because it's literally PVE pushing towers for ages)

Earl EulrichOct 5, 20154 votes

nah, it had just been a bad draft from fnatic, aswell as some uncharacteristically bad teamfights - and C9 executing their siege-comp really well yet again.

Angry MonsterOct 5, 20151 votes

i want to say that the draft was not that bad. The comp had a goal (although simple)press R and was playing to huni's current highly aggressive tendencies that he has been showing. The coach staff might of thought it was easier to support this aggressiveness and deal with it on the mini break than trying to a dress it such a short time. Second guessing your self in a match is worse than the aggressiveness.

The last team fight could of gone the other way. Yellow star pulverize got daruis and trist but trist was out of the AOE of the yasou ult. Huni could of targeted trist as the center but let the system auto target the closet target. If Huni had selected trist or is trist was a temmo closer to daruis the game would of still ended but for fnatic win.

Earl EulrichOct 5, 20151 votes

i want to say that the draft was not that bad. The comp had a goal (although simple)press R and was playing to huni's current highly aggressive tendencies that he has been showing.

the thing is though, C9s comps also had a goal - sieging and killing naything that comes close in a sort of deathball. So pressing r and getting close to them had been a bad idea from the start. Also hitting Trist would not have done the trick for fnatic in that fight, they would have needed to hit Azir and windwall trist...but with the black shield to deny a knockup on Azir C9 wouold have needed to missplay that in the firstplace.

If fnatic would have gone for some poke however C9s comp wouldn´t really have had the tools to deal with it. not to mention that the Yasuo pick gave Darius a free lane for the first time in this tournament...that had just been disrespecting balls.

LintheOct 4, 201522 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-04T16:57:21.886+0000)

This is so full of shit.

Korea isn't the best region any more, it's china. So max #3 for NA.

Then add to it that C9 did not deserve the win against Fnatic at all (both baron calls were bad, Hai pls...) and a Darius that can get back into the game after 1 minor mistake from Fnatic. EU played better but lost to bad luck.

So let me understand.. C9 didn't deserve either their 1st win OR their 3rd win.

Do you want some cheese with that whine??

Did FNTIC deserve their 1st loss either?

Face facts. Huni is having a terrible worlds. And yellowstar is disappointing as well.

LauchmelderOct 4, 20154 votes

I did not say Fnatic played on top of their performance, but C9 played worse. That's all there is to it. C9 had more mistakes.

ALBIØNOct 4, 201510 votes

I think c9 definitely deserved that win. The first baron call was definitely bad because they could have just shoved mid instead but the second one was definitely a good call. They needed that second baron to get back into the game if not FNTIC would have facerolled them for sure. I also don't see how you can say c9 played worse when Fntic basically lost because of a terrible flash play from yellowstar. In the end cloud 9 won because they played better in situations that mattered more.

SuperJediNinjaOct 4, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-04T16:57:21.886+0000)

This is so full of shit.

Korea isn't the best region any more, it's china. So max #3 for NA.

Then add to it that C9 did not deserve the win against Fnatic at all (both baron calls were bad, Hai pls...) and a Darius that can get back into the game after 1 minor mistake from Fnatic. EU played better but lost to bad luck.

"Korea isn't the best region any more, it's china." Are we watching the same games?

Didn't TSM just beat a Chinese team? Also isn't the Chinese teams underperforming in worlds? Correct me if I'm wrong

LauchmelderOct 4, 20152 votes

Didn't Origen fuck over TSM? By that logic EU really is better than NA. So stop with that kind of arguments.

SuperJediNinjaOct 4, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2015-10-04T17:07:36.038+0000)

Didn't Origen fuck over TSM? By that logic EU really is better than NA. So stop with that kind of arguments.

You will not stop defending EU until they day you die... I respect that but C9 wasn't supposed to beat EU's #1 team. Nobody even thought they would even win a game and here they are beating an undefeated (Until finals) EU team....

LauchmelderOct 4, 20153 votes

I will not defend EU, we played bad on a lot of occasions and I accept that. The problem I have is that NA now acts like they are gods because their #7 team won vs EUs best team.

Let's analyze: If Hai would not have come back from retirement then C9 wouldn't even be at worlds. They don't have a good shotcaller (which is fact, or they would not have lost that much after Hai was gone). That is also the reason C9 only placed 7th. He came back too late to get C9 higher in the rankings. They have good players overall, Hai is just their only shotcaller (and a good one at that).

Why did C9 win? 1.) Yasuo picked into a Darius 2.) Bad teamfight from Fnatic

Why did C9 not deserve to win? 1.) 2 Baron calls that were more than just questionable. 2.) Darius (Kappa)

SuperJediNinjaOct 4, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=00010002000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-04T17:20:29.436+0000)

I will not defend EU, we played bad on a lot of occasions and I accept that. The problem I have is that NA now acts like they are gods because their #7 team won vs EUs best team.

Let's analyze: If Hai would not have come back from retirement then C9 wouldn't even be at worlds. They don't have a good shotcaller (which is fact, or they would not have lost that much after Hai was gone). That is also the reason C9 only placed 7th. He came back too late to get C9 higher in the rankings. They have good players overall, Hai is just their only shotcaller (and a good one at that).

Why did C9 win? 1.) Yasuo picked into a Darius 2.) Bad teamfight from Fnatic

Why did C9 not deserve to win? 1.) 2 Baron calls that were more than just questionable. 2.) Darius (Kappa)

Ok that's fair but I still think Fnatic could've punished them more after the 1st baron ace

LauchmelderOct 4, 20151 votes

You know, that's the thing I aimed to talk about. Someone UNDERSTANDING my point of view. Sadly I usually only get downvoted here on the NA boards because of the little (EUW) added to my name here.

LintheOct 4, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=0001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-04T17:28:54.118+0000)

You know, that's the thing I aimed to talk about. Someone UNDERSTANDING my point of view. Sadly I usually only get downvoted here on the NA boards because of the little (EUW) added to my name here.

So if C9 makes mistakes they are playing bad and don't deserve to win...

And if FNTIC makes mistakes then they are playing bad and C9 STILL doesnt deserve to win.

Got it.

No idea why the EU salters won't just admit that Huni is having a really bad worlds.

LauchmelderOct 4, 20152 votes

NA Salter confirmed. C9 played bad and luckily won, I am done with lesser people like you.

James StoneOct 4, 201513 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=000100020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-04T17:45:28.430+0000)

NA Salter confirmed. C9 played bad and luckily won, I am done with lesser people like you.

You're pathetic at so many different levels.

Signed: an EU fan

MCBiggah99Oct 4, 20155 votes

FNC definitely underperformed on their final two games, but that doesn't change the fact that C9 have been playing out of their minds this Worlds. I'd even go as far as to say that C9 is the best NA team at worlds right now. It is just sad to see FNC underperform here, out of everywhere, they had a good chance to be a big-shot team. Oh well, time to charge OG with our faith and hope that FNC can 4-2 this.

SuperJediNinjaOct 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

FNC definitely underperformed on their final two games, but that doesn't change the fact that C9 have been playing out of their minds this Worlds. I'd even go as far as to say that C9 is the best NA team at worlds right now. It is just sad to see FNC underperform here, out of everywhere, they had a good chance to be a big-shot team. Oh well, time to charge OG with our faith and hope that FNC can 4-2 this.

I think C9 is the best NA team

LintheOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

FNC definitely underperformed on their final two games, but that doesn't change the fact that C9 have been playing out of their minds this Worlds. I'd even go as far as to say that C9 is the best NA team at worlds right now. It is just sad to see FNC underperform here, out of everywhere, they had a good chance to be a big-shot team. Oh well, time to charge OG with our faith and hope that FNC can 4-2 this.

I thought that Peke was mostly past his prime but he has come up absolutely huge.

Tik115Oct 4, 20155 votes

To be fair nobody expected Oregen to take a game from Fnatic in the summer finals

Surprises and upsets can happen, thats why TSM is doing poorly while C9 does great and the same case for Fnatic/Oregen

end of the day this whole "EU > NA" joke won't apply till one of them wins worlds over the other.

Hell I don't care which region is stronger so long as one of them wins worlds

Angry MonsterOct 5, 20153 votes

Surprises and upsets can happen, thats why TSM is doing poorly while C9 does great and the same case for Fnatic/Oregen

Is TSM doing poorly a surprise? They have had a rocky season overall and adaption with patches has never been their strong suit. For the first time ever TSM loss to CLG in a best of series in the NA finals.

The teams that have been under preforming the most at worlds are the 2nd seed teams (point teams)

Kat HeadOct 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-04T16:57:21.886+0000)

This is so full of shit.

Korea isn't the best region any more, it's china. So max #3 for NA.

Then add to it that C9 did not deserve the win against Fnatic at all (both baron calls were bad, Hai pls...) and a Darius that can get back into the game after 1 minor mistake from Fnatic. EU played better but lost to bad luck.

Where did the bad NA players touch you ?

/giggle

LauchmelderOct 4, 20152 votes

I actually giggled. xD

Kat HeadOct 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Hk8pjTT8,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2015-10-04T17:06:15.834+0000)

I actually giggled. xD

TheDuelist999Oct 4, 20151 votes

In order of total wins Korea 7-2 2-0vsNA 1-1 vs EU 2-0 vs China 2-0 vs IWC 0-1 vs LMS NA 6-3 0-2vsKorea 1-1 vs EU 2-0 vs China 1-0 vs IWC 2-0 vs LMS EU 5-4 1-1vsKorea 1-1 vs NA 2-1 vs China 1-0 vs IWC 0-1 vs LMS China 3-6 0-2vsKorea 0-2vs NA 1-2 vs EU 1-0 vs IWC 1-0 vs LMS LMS 2-3 1-0vsKorea 0-2vs NA 0-1 vs China 0-0 vs IWC 1-0 vs EU IWC 0-5 It's the IWC

China literally has the most losses of any region They're wins are off of the 3rd seed from the EU which is looking like the #3 region an IWC team and a LMS Team. The combine record of the teams they have wins off are 2-7(a step farther those 2 wins come of teams with a combined 1-5) Their most impressive win is vs ahq so no they aren't the strongest region not even if EDG ends up winning the tournament. EDG playing at their peak is an outlier and they cant even be consistent. If it wasn't for the head to head game I would have put LMS over China.

Jungle Lux GodOct 4, 20153 votes

I thought the EU>NA meme was already dead after all three EU teams failed to make it out of the group stages last year compared to 2 of the NA teams.

China is so bad this year. EDG is playing as well as everyone expected, LGD is just playing aweful, and IG isn't playing that much better. Statistically speaking, they are on par with the SEA teams. No one has been able to say that since TPA won Worlds in Season 2.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 5, 20151 votes

You thought the EU>NA thing died in worlds season 4, then you weren't hear for MSI this year why do you think this whole "NA ult, NA skillshot, NA throw" thing has been in full force sense then.

China has definitely dropped the ball but it is worth mentioning that EDG will still make it out of groups and isn't playing that bad. IG is also tied with both AHQ and FNC right now so really the only team that's actually hurting china's image is LGD and their meltdown.

Jungle Lux GodOct 5, 20151 votes

One team isn't representative of the whole region. There is such a thing as outliers, and FNC was a huge outlier in EU. FNC could easily take on any of the NA teams and win, but all the other EU teams would have a really hard time even competing against NA's top 3-5 teams.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 5, 20153 votes

I'm not sure where your going with this comment, but the match earlier today between C9 and FNC disproves that "FNC coudl easily take on any of the NA teams."

All I'm saying is that you can't discredit China when what you described about them is happening to every region. OG is playing well, FNC is underwhelming, and H2K are dead to rights in that group. Should we put EU on par with SEA as well? What about Korea who only have SKT to look forward too, since KT lost to OG and KOO lost to FW. Are they playing really bad this year too?

ApeironLightOct 5, 20151 votes

He said the top 3-5 teams. Nothing was stated about C9.

On a serious note, My pick'em isn't looking that terrible at the moment. My Groups B, C, and D are all on the money. Not sure why I put KOO in 3rd after Flash Wolves, but I had faith in C9 and OG. When you have teams that are willing to throw something random (Veigar/Anivia) at you and still win- you have too look out in the Best of Ones.

It was clear from MSI 2014 how important Hai was to C9 and I have always been impressed by xPeke and Soaz at Worlds.

Jungle Lux GodOct 5, 20151 votes

"FNC could easily take on any of the NA teams" is different from "C9 playing like a god".

I'm only looking at results so far, and from what we've all seen China is playing like the worst region at worlds, and raw statistics cannot be denied.

Earl EulrichOct 5, 20151 votes

nobody denies that EU last year had just been horrible, the only team that legitimatly should have gone to worlds S4 had been fnatic, Elements and SK were way too passive/one dimensional in play - same as TSM. But this year those teams got relegated/placed far down, just showcasing that EU improved a lot as a region. Same goes for NA, as TSM finally got exploited by a lot of teams - though it´s still somewhat alarming that they still went that far in the playoffs. historically though Eu had been a lot better for S1-3 and I´d argue they are still ahead when it comes down to talent (CLG got somewhat destroyed by KOO and is mostly 2-1 due to the weak group, only C9 really stepped it up...) - but NA is certainly not as far behind as has been suspected.

and China underperforming doesn´t make them a bad region all of a sudden, it just shows that people were right sayng that IG and LGD are inconsistent...unfortunatelly on the wrong side in this torunament so far. EDG though still is the team to beat alongside SKT if you want to win the tournament and IG might get themselves together and start performing like a top team yet again after they got some confidence back.

Jungle Lux GodOct 5, 20151 votes

EDG is definitely the team to beat, along with SKT. I wouldn't ever consider denying that. It's just that with the way that the chinese teams as a whole are playing EDG might be the only chinese team that gets out of the group stage. Compared to worlds the last couple years, where not a single chinese team failed to make it into the bracket stage, they are underperforming hard.

And don't try to say that just because IG and LGD are inconsistent makes them any less bad of a region. Inconsistency is a sign of a bad team regardless of how strong they are mechanically.

ApeironLightOct 5, 20151 votes

I've always thought of EU and NA being very close in skill with varying degrees of success at different points in time. Both regions have produced different metas throughout the years. I always thought EU had better solo laners, and NA had bottom lanes, with both regions having good junglers.

Honestly I don't understand why people care about EU vs NA. I remember when I played SC2, if you weren't from Korean, you were on the same team. I feel like the fact that both EU and NA are competing with both the Chinese and Korean teams we are seeing that the skill levels of regions are coming together. Especially with NA actually being the first to pick up the Trist/Fast Push meta months before other regions.

I think SKT and EDG still could be in the Finals together, but it should be worth noting that they are not in particularly challenging group. Bangkok Titans and H2K are not looking good at all. Thought I think they came to worlds looking stronger than their opponents, I remember in Season 3 Worlds when the teams that did not get tested during the Group Stages (C9, Najin, etc) entered the tournament they floundered from not being crisp in their execution of the current meta.

I think instead of arguing NA>EU or EU>NA, (while routing for our teams and regions, sure) I think we should be routing for the west in general and even every region. Could be the first time in 2 years that we don't have a Korean team win, and the first time since Season 1 that a Western team won (you know, when all those pesky eastern teams were still focused on other games).

I still think and hope C9, FNC, and OG have a shot at a deep run here at worlds. Maybe CLG, but with Xmithie possibly not making it to the bracket stage, I think they should just try to impress here in Groups.

High5Oct 5, 20153 votes

Fnatic has been sloppy. TSM is terrible and has been the entire year. They've been far too passive in lane and Dyrus can't back up all his talk. If he didn't give up first blood almost every match, maybe TSM could win ...

There's a middle ground between AHq's and TIP's all in team fighting strategy and TSM's awfull (and not fun to watch) macro play. Fnatic can do that and play well, they just need to focus.

SuperJediNinjaOct 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Fnatic has been sloppy. TSM is terrible and has been the entire year. They've been far too passive in lane and Dyrus can't back up all his talk. If he didn't give up first blood almost every match, maybe TSM could win ...

There's a middle ground between AHq's and TIP's all in team fighting strategy and TSM's awfull (and not fun to watch) macro play. Fnatic can do that and play well, they just need to focus.

TSM is getting new members next year