Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 6.24, Camille release

RiotAesah·Dec 7, 2016·1 votes·69,701 views

new "Minions" art created by inkinesss!

Hey guys! Welcome to Patch Chat, a Dev Corner thread we make to talk about our new patches every two weeks: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-624-notes

I'm Aesah on Riot's Playtest Team, a group of Diamond+ players who play with the new champions, reworks, balance tweaks, items, and map updates before they are released. It's our job to the test the changes that our designers come up with and ensure that we're introducing positive changes to LoL in terms of both balance and fun. We'll be watching this thread to answer as many questions as we can.

In 6.24, we're most looking forward to the release of Camille, a diver in the top lane. Other changes include buffs for Azir, Nidalee, Fiddlesticks, Kog'Maw, and Garen, who were below the bar of appropriate strength (e.g., Fiddlesticks struggled with the jungle changes). On the other hand, we have nerfs for Vayne, Rengar, Leblanc, Twitch, and Ivern who were overperforming (Ivern as players learn to play him). Fervor recieved a buff to encourage ADCs to consider taking it over Warlord's again, while Courage of the Collosus was nerfed as it was providing way more impact than other keystones. Finally, Rylai's recieved a nerf so hopefully we won't be seeing it built as a stat-stick so frequently and rather only on mages who strongly appreciate the slow.

All of us on the Playtest Team are avid gamers so feel free to talk to us as fellow LoL players!

Adam "Afic" Cohen Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Don “Aesah” Ding Nicolas “Gleeb” Haddad Dan “penguin” Hardison Bao “Bao” Lam Robert “ROBERTxLEE” Lee Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “S0be” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

241 Comments

Malicious MetalDec 7, 201614 votes

So, I've played eight Mordekaiser games today to see how the changes pan out in the live game after having gotten an initial feel of them on the PBE. And I'd be lying if I said Mordekaiser didn't change much.

Losing half the efficiency of the slow as well as the stats was rather noticeable and It really doesn't feel right in game.

Prior to the changes I managed to keep up with almost any of my victims due to the 40% slow and occasional SrS speedup. But now champions with Tier 2 boots, Zeal items or any form of minor mobility advantage can rather easily get away, leaving you unable to close the gap and bash them with your mace.

Not only this but the lower stats somewhat gimped his late game a bit as it kinda dips after 30 minutes or so due to less AP feeding into your shield and less Hp.

I'm totally for these changes, in fact they're pretty darn good! It does hurt Mordekaiser a lot though due to being overly reliant on Rylais. His base stats in particular are what makes this even more noticeable. With literally the worst base MS he can't really keep up and with less than stellar base hp and resistances he does not feel as tanky as he should.

On a related "juggernaut" note, thoughts on Quas Nasus' build and how people seem to have a problem with it?

Ad Vitam AeternaDec 7, 20161 votes

What is Quas' Nasus build?

Goodnight NunuDec 7, 20167 votes

It's the E max push build that doesn't prioritize stacks.

It started when Quas used it against lanes he would not be able to get stacks anyways but people hopped on the bandwagon. It gives extreme pushing power and keeps the pressure on the enemy laner.

RiotAesahDec 7, 20165 votes

Yeah good point on Mordekaiser. We did do a passthrough on how Rylai's would affect various champions but we'll definitely have to be paying close attention to how it affects Morde and other champs that are dependent on it and adjust them accordingly.

The max E Nasus build seems pretty effective- I think it's cool that things that have (pretty much) been in the game for a long time get discovered as strong!

RiotplaytestpenguinDec 8, 201612 votes

I brought up mordekaiser as a champion who will likely be heavily affected by Rylai's nerf to the live gameplay team -- they are aware.

RiotSkarnye WestDec 8, 20165 votes

I'm no longer a playtester (I used to be), and I'm also a dirty Mordekaiser secondary (90 ranked games last season), and I share your concerns.

Rylai's was warping what Mordekaiser was supposed to do by giving him consistent ability to close from range. This, in turn, required him to sacrifice strength elsewhere. Mordekaiser will take a hit, but can now be balanced around his kit, not Rylai's Crystal Scepter.

Malicious MetalDec 8, 20166 votes

Wow, I had over 400 Morde games this ranked season myself, the guy got me from Gold to Diamond^^

On a serious note though, I really like the changes for this reason in particular, it finally allows Mordekaiser to feel like a real champion with his BASE kit rather than be overly reliant on ONE item. It's still going to be what BC is to darius but it will add to his strength, not be 110% what he's based around.

Overall a great change in the long run.

Chromatic EagleDec 8, 20161 votes

Are there other items in game that you feel are warping champions?

RiotSkarnye WestOct 4, 20172 votes

I never answered this :(

Maybe too much CDR on mage items, maybe Righteous Glory on a few champions, maybe.............Dead Man's Plate when it's strong.

Nothing too bad though.

iahim98Oct 4, 20171 votes

Now begs the question, how did you end up here after so long?

RiotSkarnye WestOct 4, 20172 votes

I was looking at responses because I'd hopped into a thread on new runes, and ended up realizing I'd missed somebody's question!

SilverightCSDec 7, 20166 votes

Rylai's has been a core item for Taliyah, and with the extra slows gone, I'm a bit worried about her. She's pretty weak now, or, at least, not many people play her (1.18% playrate). Are there any plans for her?

RiotAesahDec 7, 20169 votes

Yeah Taliyah probably needs buffs

Nausicäa Dec 8, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Aesah,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ri0KuYlA,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2016-12-07T23:23:37.154+0000)

Yeah Taliyah probably needs buffs

uhh she needed buffs before the ryalis nerf.

Malicious MetalDec 8, 20166 votes

They want to gauge the impact of these changes before buffing her.

That's why the other core Rylais users didn't get changes yet.

RiotplaytestpenguinDec 8, 20165 votes

I brought her up when I did a Rylai's analysis as a champion who is likely to suffer pretty hard, so live gameplay is aware and will react if she tanks statistically.

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 8, 20162 votes

The issue with Taliyah is that she is this absolute monster-mess to balance. Sure she is weak, but anyone who is actually GOOD with her reaches above a 65% Win rate on her. She's insane. I love playing her and I do want her to be more relevant, but I can acknowledge how insanely obnoxious she is to fight. I'm not saying don't buff her, but it's going to be a continuous issue of her basic win rate reaching 50% or so and then anyone who decides to one trick or Main her will eventually reach insane win rates.

RiotplaytestpenguinDec 8, 20164 votes

experienced player winrates are considered when making balance changes

young black maleDec 7, 20165 votes

Buff Draven

RiotRiot ThEntropistDec 8, 201616 votes

no you

RyujakeDec 7, 20165 votes

When is Camille gonna be released?

RiotRiot ThEntropistDec 7, 201635 votes

Yes

ScAr514Dec 7, 20165 votes

When exactly is Camille coming out? Camille

RiotAesahDec 7, 20166 votes

Soon

Malicious MetalDec 7, 201618 votes

You forgot the TM

Praise2LordHelixDec 7, 20165 votes

This preseason's big class update was the Assassin update with the big updates to Talon, Leblanc, Rengar, Katarina with accompanying buffs to several other assassins. Yet the champs I'm playing against feel very much the same-old as last season with assassins again seeming to fall out of favor for control mages. I think it's agreed that assassins are fun to play yet have a lot of tools that can be used against them. Namely, the sheer strength newly given to supports to use Redemption, Locket shield (and for tank supports FofTM as well) in addition to Exhaust. Where's the trickery and outplay for assassins when all players have to do is spam actives and click the Exhaust-block button to stop them? Also the fact the Exhaust is now frequently run in offensively lanes top and mid (Yasuo being a very clear abuser of it).

Is the balance team thinking that maybe anti-engage tools are too strong, and/or Exhaust is an overly strong summoner spell at this point? A spell that reduces Attack Speed, damage, and slows may be a bit too overpowering and just limits a lot of options without leaving room for outplay. Maybe look at QSS removing Exhaust so there's some semblance to outplay Exhaust? Nerf Exhaust? Obviously there's a clear difference between how these champions and spells are used in Bronze to Challenger but I don't find it fun to play assassins and be perma-exhausted or otherwise flashed away most of the time in the mid to late game.

TLDR; Assassins were hyped but Exhaust/Redemption/Locket makes it brainless to counter against them.

RiotAesahDec 8, 20169 votes

We're looking into potentially buffing Ignite, also last patch we buffed an offensive Keystone and nerfed a defensive one. Control mages got a decent across the board nerf with Rylai's/Blue.

I find that on average there's about 1 player per team with exhaust, and with a ~3 minute cooldown spread amongst multiple targets you would still have plenty of opportunities to full-combo with ultimate when exhaust is down (if the guy with it is even there in the first place).

Furthermore a lot of the assassins have decent disengages if you pick your spots carefully so you can try doing something like baiting out an exhaust by then parkouring over a wall and coming back later, etc.

TiIianDec 7, 20164 votes

no one cares

Deep Terror NamiDec 7, 201639 votes

I care. Your move.

Malicious MetalDec 7, 201629 votes

Check Mate.

IcaroDec 7, 20164 votes

Hello, and thanks for your continuous work, I jut have two questions. Why the nerf to ap KogMaw ? And any plans for Kalista to be back to meta or at least decent?

deoje299Dec 7, 20161 votes

They dont want kog to be a midlaner.

RiotAesahDec 7, 20168 votes

It's not that Kog shouldn't be viable in midlane but currently AP Kog is the highest winrate (or very close to) midlaner and that's probably not great as it should probably be an offrole (AFAIK). We've been testing some things for Kalista!

RiotROBERTxLEEDec 7, 20167 votes

Kog should be primarily played bot lane. We are currently watching Kalista play out with the Fervor of Battle and BotRK buffs.

D2VincentDec 7, 20162 votes

Out of curiosity, I know there plans to help the champs with which Rylai's was super core, (Mostly Battle Mages: Vlad, Karthus, Rumble, etc) but I don't suppose we could get any details exactly as to what we can expect regarding buffs for said champs?

RiotplaytestpenguinDec 8, 20166 votes

Reacting to data is more likely -- I don't think Vlad or Rumble will suffer particularly as they have good items to build in Rylai's place. I think Karthus/Cassio/Taliyah/Mordekaiser are the most likely to perform badly.

XDman2014Dec 7, 20162 votes

Hello Riot,

I saw in the patch notes Twitch is getting a nerf to allow lane bully adc's to better do their thing. Here's my question: Why don't you buff Draven, Lucian and Miss Fortune? Especially Draven is moderate at best considering how risky his kit is. Love to hear from you!

RiotRiot ThEntropistDec 8, 20168 votes

Draven and Lucian are currently getting looked at for buffs. So we are also looking to see if those guys need a bump

AdalvarDec 8, 20165 votes

What will these buffs comprise? Lucian has had a history of balance swings and this is especially the case ever since his W has it's AD scaling lopped off. Now i'm not saying you need to restore it, that would break Lucian in more ways than one, but maybe add some effect that actually makes it feel good to use and make his kit more cohesive. It would also make him less swingy on balance adustments since other abilities could have power shaved to compensate.

Also will you be returning the 6.24 buffs you had in testing for Kalista?

EDIT: And how could i forget about Trist? She's been in dust for a year. Atleast when she had the in-built CDR on her E-Q combos, she was somewhat smooth. For an ADC who's major point is her resets, she doesn't get much momentum going after the first since by then all of her damage tools and steroids are on CD.

FlyinguillotineDec 8, 20162 votes

Hey, relatively new player here. Azir has always been one of my favorite champs, even before I played the game if you can believe it (I was doing other mobas back then)! So I was psyched when I got him from a random chest. But he felt super weak, not just high skill cap.

I'm glad to see you guys are giving him some buffs, but you seem to have avoided the areas that really need dealing with. I know his high lategame damage and relative range, combined with the mobility on his dash make him hard to balance. But if I could put my two cents in as someone who really didn't have any knowledge or experience with him before picking him up, his kit doesn't seem to match his idea.

He's supposed to be a regal general type guy, right? So why is he dashing around all over the place? And it seems like to balance that out, his range was nerfed so that he barely outranges standard mid casters. He's sometimes even forced to be almost in the middle of the fight. It seems to me like he should be able to stand back, but if someone like Rengar pounces on the general he's in trouble. Maybe remove his dash and give him some range back?

I know that Azir balance changes are ongoing, but I was hoping that you guys could give us some insight into at least what what you're considering when it comes to balancing him. Thanks!

IAmNeverViableDec 7, 20161 votes

couple of question

How is urgot performing?
Any plans for syndra?
Any plans for Tyrndamere? Most top lane champions can perform better than him.

RiotplaytestpenguinDec 8, 20169 votes

Syndra is on live gameplay's watch list right now because she likely needs changes that are bigger than simple numbers changes as her winrate isn't actually out of line but her banrate is nuts. This typically means her counterplay isn't there and larger changes are necessary.

LankPantsDec 8, 20167 votes

Why does this apply to Syndra but not Rengar/Yasou/Zed.

Yasou is the most egregious of these 3, he's been a top banrate champ for at least 6 months. His winrate is and has been out of line and he's pretty much universally hated by all non Yasou players. So why hasn't his weeaboo samurai head been put on the choping block if what you say about Syndra is true?

DeynaTaggerungDec 8, 20161 votes

Yasuo's winrate hasn't been out of line for the past 5 patches at least. Rengar did get full scale changes and just got nerfed this patch. As for Zed his winrate has actually been subpar and imo is interesting to play against. So you can complain to Riot all you want but your initial premise is wrong which makes the entire argument weak. Perhaps there are gameplay issues that require a larger scale rework due to being "unfun" to play against, but they have been pretty well balanced despite that.

Proof: http://na.op.gg/champion/yasuo/statistics/top http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo/Top

http://na.op.gg/champion/zed/statistics/mid http://champion.gg/champion/Zed

AbyssphereDec 8, 20165 votes

You're supporting his point by saying Yasuo's win rate isn't impressive, because his whole post is asking why they won't do fundamental changes to Yas given that he has a strangely high ban rate for his win rate - that is the justification given for changing Syndra in a more fundamental way. So... yeah.

SlashStrikerDec 7, 20161 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaoqOCJWQ7g

Don't you think Kennen deserved to die there? I pretty much did all i could. It wasn't the best decision in this teamfight but i decided to Finish off Kennen that **used Zhonya **and had about 20% hp. And even if i died i will be satisfied that I was able to finish him off. Even if i was behind I still was suppose to be able to do that

I think Yi needs kit update to be more burstier for a champion who is no suppose to have CC. This is just ridiculous. No CC, No burst? Champions suppose to have either CC or Burst on top of that Yi is a Slayer. His job is to kill his opponents right? With not Burst abilities?

I think his damage should scale with target missing health because he is designed to finish off opponents that are careless about how much damage they can take. Then Yi would see another opponent at low health and finish that opponent as well

If Wuju Style and Double Strike Swap places he would get that burst that he lacks even without CC. Would deal more constant damage and will give clear indication on how much damage he would do In my vision this would fix most of Yi's Problems while preserving his entire kit

RiotRiot ThEntropistDec 7, 201611 votes

Don't you think Kennen deserved to die there?

Nope you didn't crit.

I think Yi needs kit update to be more burstier

I don't think a high sustained damage dealer needs to be bursty, they also don't need to have cc. If he is allowed to auto constantly he will kill everybody, if he gets peeled (like he did in the video) then he won't do well.

Yi is probably on the weak side right now, but this video is not proof of it.

TheHurricaneGamrDec 7, 20165 votes

Irelia pretty much violates all of those rules.

AtanchanDec 8, 20163 votes

Her DPS is really only so good because she weaves burst damage into her sustained damage. If you took away her burst damage, she'd be really not be close to high sustained damage - compare her to, say, Yasuo, who operates on a pretty similar principle, albeit the distinction between his sustained damage and his burst damage is a lot more fluid outside of his ultimate.