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Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 6.19, Kog'Maw un-rework

RiotAesah·9/21/2016, 2:38:53 PM·1 votes·45,775 views

Hey guys! Welcome to Patch Chat, a Dev Corner thread we make to talk about our new patches every two weeks: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-619-notes

I'm Aesah on Riot's Playtest Team, a group of Diamond+ players who play with the new champions, reworks, balance tweaks, items, and map updates before they are released. It's our job to the test the changes that our designers come up with and ensure that we're introducing positive changes to LoL in terms of both balance and fun. We'll be watching this thread to answer as many questions as we can.

6.19 is a relatively quiet patch, with the most notable change being the revert of Kog'Maw's "press W then AFK" rework. While some players will miss turret-Maw, we're expecting most to enjoy his new (old) playstyle more. There's been quite a lot of changes (itemization and meta) since we've seen this iteration, so we'll be watching his performance closely and make sure he's in a good spot. In other news, Mundo and Corki received some buffs while Soraka, Kled, Twitch, Anivia, and Cassiopeia were nerfed by varying degrees to bring their power levels closer to "fair". Udyr got some damage shifted around which hopefully makes him more satisfying to play. Some stuff happened to Aurelion Sol too, I'm going to refrain from commenting as I personally have no idea how it will affect him but I'll make sure our resident dragon expert Cezium shares his thoughts for you guys.

All of us on the Playtest Team are avid gamers so feel free to talk to us as fellow LoL players!

Adam "Afic" Cohen Preston “Hinderaga” Bunker Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Shawn “I Am The IRS” Currie Don “Aesah” Ding Nicolas “Gleeb” Haddad Dan “penguin” Hardison Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard Bao “Bao” Lam Robert “ROBERTxLEE” Lee Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “S0be” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

184 Comments

Lucavii9/21/2016, 8:41:28 PM8 votes

Honestly, it feels like you've pushed Kog back into an unplayable state. He's literally outshined in all of his possible roles now by, lets face it, better champions. Better range? Tristana, more viable too with the mobility and the ability to siege. Want health carving for tanks? Twitch or Vayne, Twitch is a better option for team fights too and Vayne has more mobility and scales pretty hard late game, especially if someone can use that mobility properly. Mage carry? Corki, cause let's face it, ap Kog is pretty much useless, Corki at least has those heavy hits in between whatever it is he does (kinda in a weird place right now too). Considering the heavy cost of his ult, the low damage coefficient's of any of his skills and his lack of mobility, Kayle would even be a better pick at this point.

You took all the uniqueness from Kog and made him into a stationary ADC with no unique qualities whatsoever. The least you could've done was just remove the "double attack speed cap" part of his w, left it to double his overall attack speed (would've let people build more damage and not get punished for having to stand still). Now people are going to have to stutter step on one of the least mobile champions in the game and be punished for taking advantage of his W, one of the most defining parts of his kit...

He won't make it anywhere near the top of the ad charts and will always be outshined by Twitch , Vayne , Caitlyn , Tristana , MissFortune , Lucian , hell, even Kalista .

Congrats Riot, you've succeeded in taking an idea so original that it actually had to change a game mechanic to work and turned it into another copy/paste of other champions but just lower quality.

RIP Kog, you were high risk and high reward and uniquely tailored as your own, individual champion. You will be missed.

Janigan9/21/2016, 8:25:27 PM6 votes

Why doesn't Illaoi get nerfed?

Rage of Face9/22/2016, 8:00:45 AM6 votes

So, on the topic of Kog'Maw's "un-rework."

  • Is it possible that we'll see some ult changes reverted?

First of all, the stacking mechanic should be reverted to 6s instead of the current 10s. The only reason the 10s was reasonable during the rework was because his kit heavily revolved around the insane W and rendered everything else in his kit non-existent. The mana cost and additional mana costs need to be reverted as well if we're going to shift all the power away from his W.

Secondly, I feel that this new "execute" version of his Ult is particularly weaker than the double damage on champions version. What made the old Kog'Maw shine was the fact that his ult was an effective harassment tool and it felt satisfying to land them. In the ultimate's current state, even a squishy target won't feel the effects of whatever shadow was landing on top of them until they were "below xx% health." Now does that sound like an ultimate ability to you? Now I do realize that effectively the ult does more damage than before when an enemy is below 25% health, but that is a situation that a Kog'Maw without a harassment tool aside from W will ever find during laning phase. Outside of laning phase, there may be a few situations where a target will be under 25% health, but rarely ever will that target be within ult range.

Closing notes:

Since the Riot team decided to revert the major W change in Kog'Maw's kit, the rest of his kit became unbalanced or a better way to put it may be unrefined. I understand that the passive attack speed was given back to Q, but the major problem at the moment is keeping the reworked Ultimate. The mana costs to use it to an effective extent are too overwhelming for what it actually offers in the long run. One way to make the current costs reasonable is if stacks offered additional damage in a similar sense to how Kassadin's ultimate works, but then again that would remove the uniqueness of that concept.

I hope the Riot team can look at how to bring Kog'Maw's kit up-to-date with the current game. Anything from QoL changes to Ability interactions.

Very Cash Money9/21/2016, 8:12:23 PM5 votes

What is your opinion on Zac?

He got solid

  • Damage
  • CC
  • Sustain
  • Tankyness

It really seems that he is just overall strong in everything a tank wants to be strong in. Usually a tank needs to sacrifice at least one or two of these traits, but it seems Zac just has them all.

I believe the problem simply lies in the fact that his Damage is so high that he barely needs to optimize for damage items, thereby allowing tankyness. Innate tankyness is the one thing Zac lacks, but it doesn't really matter if he is free to invest all his money in it with seemingly no consequences.

Champs like Amumu and Naut also have quite a lot of damage and CC, however they need to buy an item or two to really feel their damage, and it often comes at the expense of tankyness.

Idk, Maybe I am just getting tired of being oneshot by a full tank Zac whenever I play immobile carries, but i would like to hear your oppinions on him. His winrate seems okay but that is not all :^

warpenguin5559/22/2016, 3:51:21 PM3 votes

Pre rework Kog'maw had no mana cost on his W. Right now he has a 40 mana cost on it. Is this intended?

redfeenix9/21/2016, 3:11:10 PM3 votes

Robert “ROBERTXLEE” Lee

This name sounds familiar. Didnt you have amnesia one time? Hope everythings cool man.

kog Changes

Yes and No.

On one hand, the kog changes resulted in a really sick attack speed carry, it was pretty cool. On the other he was Op as shit.

I think saving that 5.0 attack speed steroid for another champion in the future would be a good idea.The old Kog had a much higher skill cap. And made you really decide which skill to max first. Which I think should be a feature in all champs, not just max Q every game for example.

Cassio

Hitting her damage is fine, the problem is her interaction with Rylais. As a champion, she can perma slow with her e. Therefore She can always escape any engagement, or chase down foes making escape impossible.

Short patch notes, changes were fine...

But whats all your opinions on Ivern??

Nenad2k109/21/2016, 8:13:39 PM3 votes

Hello, just got my hands at the game and went head first to test Aurelion Sol (since I play him a lot) First thing I noticed is that you can't cancel your E anymore for the first 2 seconds of the cast, neither by pressing E or right clicking. That seems really weird since and it's not mentionted anywhere. Also is there any context on why did you change his E to be canceled by only reactivating the abilty and not right clicking?

Wéedasaur9/22/2016, 3:28:24 AM3 votes

Ok, so I see that you have for the most part reverted Kog back to his old kit. I personally think this is a good thing, and it shows that you guys are capable of making this happen when the need is dire.

My question is, will you guys be looking at Mordekaiser anytime soon? His "Juggernaut" update destroyed his ability to play any role effectively, and he is a JOKE in the competitive scene. I was a Mordekaiser main before the update, but now he is completely unplayable. What happened to the metallic nightmare that i knew and loved.... Make Morde great again

Dracocrash9/22/2016, 12:07:10 PM3 votes

Kog'maw W seems a bit wonky. Have you tried it out? At lower attack speeds it seems very easy to cancel his W and "feels" slower.

Any word on kog'maw W not getting a revert on mana cost?

InTheory9/21/2016, 3:09:29 PM3 votes

[deleted]

bro0rtega9/21/2016, 8:43:25 PM2 votes

How does the Playtest team try to weed out hidden buffs/nerfs? Test with composition algorithms? or just studying beforehand who's most likely to be effected by these changes? or just hope to stumble upon these things? I recognize there is a limited time and so many possibilities. Thanks!

int is success9/21/2016, 10:21:56 PM2 votes

The de-worked Kog'maw has made me find adc super fun, and the element of skill is super impactful of his gameplay. I love the way the build path is so much more open, love it Rito :D [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] (my opop build item 3006 item 3153 item 3085 item 3142 item 3091 item 3022 )

LeadedWolf9/21/2016, 10:29:29 PM2 votes

Thank you for nerfing Twitch now just need to work on Satan Teemo

Hi Im Fox Box9/21/2016, 8:12:45 PM2 votes

Nerf Kled? :D

SlashStriker9/21/2016, 8:17:43 PM2 votes

Will Assassins hit the PBE soon?

Kasjusz09/21/2016, 10:05:51 PM1 votes

Hi :) Is Kog Maw in jungle still a good thing? What are ideas about his future, will he be able to play succesfull in jungle?

PureSilvrr9/21/2016, 8:20:14 PM1 votes

About Aurelion, I think his E changes will make him easier to play, but not stopping flying after taking damage was unnecessary, it basically says if I get caught flying, I can just ignore whoever's attacking me. For example ignoring enemy jungler if you get caught roaming bot lane. I could also use it to escape a fight as long as I have not bene attacked for 5 seconds. its sad, like a kled using ult as an escape. I agree with the rest of the changes though

set4359/21/2016, 8:23:28 PM1 votes

Wait just a noob question, forgive me everyone, how do u ping items in the shop? Also how can u put stuff like Zed- e recharging in 5 seconds or Zed respawning in 5s on the chat?

Lusûs Naturae9/21/2016, 11:36:50 PM1 votes

I would like to ask about the nerf on Soraka, as I have saw her in play and she is now horrible and disgusting, she feels almost unplayable early game, as all she can do is remove some health and silence. What are you opinions about the nerf and how did you come to it?