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RGM brain dump Star Guardian sparkle edition

RiotL4T3NCY··1 votes·17,007 views

Heya guys, I've seen lots of cool questions/thoughts floating around RE the new Star Guardian Invasion mode and League PvE in general. I'll collect some of my thoughts here but feel free to ask any other sparkle questions if you want. I'll lurk in thread here during today. Shining Bright ~♪

http://i.imgur.com/Q3MqMCt.jpg


"The premade missions for Star Guardian feel bad. :( I'm a solo player and just want to get the ward skin/random champ.."

TL;DR: You can earn either of the Star Guardian rewards as a solo player, no premades required. If you want to collect 'both', you'll also need to complete the premade missions.

We've seen a fair bit of confusion on these missions and that's totally on us. The way we laid out the missions in the tab makes it hard to see what is part of a chain, which ones are solo/premade and how many tokens each one gives. We can do better here for future events.

RE premade missions in general, we'll look at the aftermath of Star Guardian and decide if we want to do them again in the future. We DO like the things to do inside the missions (complete with the original/new Star Guardian team, crazy comps, etc), but there's a discussion to be had about whether or not that should 'require' a premade. The premade requirements even prevent some cool emergent moments where you PUG a group, complete a mission and then don't get credit for it... #feelsbadman


"The HARD missions are like.... hard.."

Yeah... git gud? :3


"I want to play Invasion using "Champion X". Will I ever be able to?"

We're not against this idea at all. For modes that have a smaller champ pool initially (Blood Moon, Star Guardian), we're quite interested in swapping out those champ pools to add new flavour as the modes return. We actually wanted to do it for Blood Moon just past recently, but didn't have time due to Star Guardian creeping up on us. :P

Hopefully for the next runs of some of these modes, we can look at shifting or changing the champ pools. It comes at the cost though of needing to make sure each champ works or makes sense in the mode. Each champ in Star Guardian has a place and their abilities do something useful (Poppy blocks monsters, Soraka silence, Janna Whirlwind to cancel channels) so we'd need to think carefully each additional champ. EG: Without substantial effort, champs like Ivern, Kindred, Rengar, etc would be unable to execute on their core fantasy.


"Will you guys do more PvE now?"

We've been dabbling in PvE since the first Doom Bots, and refined it again for The Teemoing version of that mode. Star Guardian is a different take on PvE in LoL, and I think there's probably even more angles or facets to explore, still lurking within League's superstructure.

Questions like "Would you ever do an adventure mode?" or "Will you make a Diablo style dungeon?" are su~uper lofty. Those are often entire games made over many many years with gigantic teams of talented people. I think there's certainly interesting elements within those games/genres that would be fun to boil down and play with inside a League ecosystem, but it's too early to make any kind of commitment to something as huge as a "dungeon mode". For now, we hope you enjoy Star Guardian Invasion, and we're in there defending the city alongside you guys! :D


"Should I focus the Vel'Koz?"

(••) ( ••)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) YEEEEAAAAAHHH!!

75 Comments

Death Rex19 votes

Riot should create a PvE modus where you pick either Demacia or Noxus and play on a battlefield against the other fraction. First against normal soldiers, then with each level stronger soldiers and generals (for example Garen when you fight for Noxus).

Same would work on Frejord; there was once an event with Lissandra, Seju and Ashe, but a new one should be made on Aram map (how convenient, we even have already a map for that!). The battle could be around a crown, which is pickupable in the middle and must be brought to the base, like a "capture the flag" game. While this idea is more PvP, it could work as PvE as well: You have to fight towards the other base, while dodging Ashe arrows for example.

I think in general that Riot should support fraction fights, since its kinda what league's story is / was all about. Champion interactions within fractions are so cool. I like Demacia for example and am dissapointed that Garen has so few interactions with Noxus.

Valor Bot7 votes

I actually think that Demacia v. Noxus idea would make a lot of sense as a hybrid PvP-PvE mode (one team chooses Demacian champs while the other team chooses Noxian champs and the two battle it out alongside soldier NPCs of their faction).

FenricsShield4 votes

Yeah! You'd have to color code the soldiers, so you know whose are whose. Like, Demacia could be blue and Noxus could be purple. And they could be assaulting each other's castles, with Tower-Defense style turrets guarding them. Ooh! And maybe there could be some side objectives too, like a side quest where you kill a dragon, but to get them, you'd have to leave your solders alone for a while while the enemy kills them.

...okay, fine, I'm being tongue in cheek here. TBH, I love the idea, but we'd need to differentiate it from, y'know, League.

Death Rex3 votes

That would be pretty dang cool, maybe on a circular battlefield map with a destroyed village at the side and dry soil as a ground texture

Jeddy0178 votes

but there's a discussion to be had about whether or not that should 'require' a premade.

Can we at least set a minimum instead of it being a 5 man premade only next time? Like a duo minimum (obviously including you) or something. Getting one friend to play with you is much easier than grabbing 4 people (Some might be busy with life or not even interested in playing).

RiotL4T3NCY5 votes

That's one way we could get at it.

We could even just remove the requirement entirely. Depending on the style of PvE content, knowing that players are smart, most would just figure out it's advantageous to be in a group anyway, so they'd naturally form small groups like you describe.

Kiraid Lciem2 votes

{quoted}... naturally form small groups ...

That can have any remaining player slots autofilled, instead of making it impossible to even start the quest.

Also (for PvE) you could have an "Autojoin Lobby" option with hosts having an "Autofill Lobby" that doesn't drop the game into Champion Select.

50000000000000002 votes

If they still have the code for Teambuilder (I don't see why not), they can modify that slightly to help build a pve lobby.

Mysticman897 votes

Is there any need to have the missions in chain compared to all at once? It felt pretty bad that I got my first S(+!) rank in invasion before I actually had the mission available to get credit for it.

If it's progressively harder version of the same thing (Kill X critters, kill 5X critters, Kill 10X critters!) sure a chain makes sense since theres no chance of 'wasting' a run, but not getting credit for an unrelated challenge feels pretty bad.

Have any strategies emerged in invasion that you didn't anticipate and maybe make things easier than first expected? e.g. on-hit builds (esp combined with an ardent user) seem to be the dominant strategy, as opposed to more conventional crit builds.

Also I agree that premade requirements should not be a thing. Difficulty levels that implicitly require a premade are fine, but if I happen to get an S rank with 4 randoms, or just happen to get the right comp (perhaps through champ select organization), it's again lame to not get credit unless I want to leave the match and then try to invite everyone into a proper premade.

RiotL4T3NCY5 votes

We had 'on-hit builds' on our radar for Lulu, but are surprised to see people trying them on Miss Fortune as well. :P

Agree that getting an "S Rank" with 4 randoms and not receiving the mission feels pretty bad.

LankPants2 votes

We had 'on-hit builds' on our radar for Lulu, but are surprised to see people trying them on Miss Fortune as well. :P

And Ahri as it turns out.

FenricsShield7 votes

Thank you so much for working on a PvE mode. It really helps me pull in my friends who are embarrassed about their lack on Moba experience. It also teaches them useful skills, like how to dodge skills shots, how to deal with assassins, how to focus ADCs, and how to avoid tanks and save them for last.

Great job!

The Last Ballad4 votes

it didn't even occur to me that that is basically what this mode is...

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Raxistaicho6 votes

Questions like "Would you ever do an adventure mode?" or "Will you make a Diablo style dungeon?" are su~uper lofty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBrNGYE0n4s

It's super lofty guys, Riot's just a small indy company. You have to be as badass as Hi Rez to do something like that :( Please understand.

OnanThaMan3 votes

{quoted}

It's super lofty guys, Riot's just a small indy company.

Laughed at this pretty hard, yeah put them up with the other "small" indy company's like Valve.

50000000000000002 votes

Rito being a "small indy company" is a meme

SzGamer2271 votes

And he was laughing at the joke. Problem? [leblanc-funny]

RiotL4T3NCY8 votes

We really liked the gear system SMITE had in that mode which persisted between runs. It was pretty cool and really gave that 'raiding feel'. :D Maybe if we do another swoop on PvE in League we can talk about adding another layer like that (assuming it makes sense).

DCYOUNG8885 votes

If you're making more star guardian skins for this mode in the future I would like to see more bruisers or tanks able to be played (e.g. Leona, Sejuani) since the only tank you can play in this mode is Poppy.

RiotL4T3NCY7 votes

Star Guardian blue buff come on Rito.... o.O

DarkRitual1 votes

Star Guardian Shen/Kennen/Akali would be awesome and add a lot to the mode.

Also because Shen could actually use an awesome skin at some point.

The Last Ballad6 votes

I don't know, I get a more "Power Rangers: Ninja Storm" vibe from them

[slayer-jinx-catface]

LankPants1 votes

Irelia is pretty much a perfect fit, just saying.

Fairyfleur2 votes

While pretty unorthodox, you can build Syndra off tank with abyssal mask to eat up Vel'koz along with liandries and rylais.

Sincarnation1 votes

{quoted}

While pretty unorthodox, you can build Syndra off tank with abyssal mask to eat up Vel'koz along with liandries and rylais.

I've theorized that the best way to beat onslaught without utility champs is to be unorthodox, CDR Tank Syndra with Morellos, Adaptive Helm, and Abyssal Mask. SPAM DAT E LIKE A POPPY W Make Lux the support with Athenes, Redemption, Ardent, and Max W

Fairyfleur1 votes

That Lux build is pretty normal at this point for invasion, I've built it a lot myself. This tank Syndra build though is just for cases where you need to complete the New Horizons quest.

DCYOUNG8881 votes

Oh that's actually a pretty decent idea, maybe I will try that in my next onslaught mode.

Spideraxe4 votes

Hey L4T3NCY can i ask if you guys started any exploration on how to patch out the Pacifist Ascension strategy

KoKoboto4 votes

Git Good. Thank god people are finally learning and there's no more "omg so fuckign hard v3l'koz spanks the butth@le" all over the boards

mikeov3 votes

I apologize in advance for a question that isn't related to Invasion, buuuuut I really want to ask: is there still no ETA for the eventual comeback of Hexakill and One For All?

RiotL4T3NCY4 votes

No ETA. :( I'm still very sad about those two. :(

ShadowParker2 votes

Is there a reason why? It seems like a lot of players would like to play them, myself included :(

bro0rtega1 votes

Hey L4T3NCY, are you going to do another RGM dev post soon?

It's been about a month now, so would be killer time for another one to hear what's going on in the think tanks of the RGM team.

C9 Squeeky 3 votes

I am a solo/duo player (insert Amumu cry emote here) so I understand the pain of the requirement of a 5-man premade but in the case of Star Guardian lore/theme, I understand having a 5man premade is like having your own Star Guardian team which I think is pretty cool, even if I personally have to miss out on it or try to make some friends on the boards and stuff.

Fairyfleur1 votes

At least it's pretty easy with the constant new threads and megathread.

iahim981 votes

You can do like me, after playing solo, invite the people you played with from recently played, or when you enter in lobby you can talk with the guys to remake the lobby in a premade, as they don't actually be in your friend list.

Other then that, I agree with you that thematically is pretty cool, but still 5 man is to much.

Corriandr2 votes

Is Invasion going to be permanently added to the RGM roster? Would seem like a waste to put forth all that effort to create it otherwise, and then not have it included. Especially since more modes are desperately needed.

Shuyin1782 votes

I think part of the problem with the missions wasn't so much the requirement for pre-mades, but the fact that we only got 1 solo mission at a time while we got 2 premade missions at a time (which we couldn't even do at the same time because one prevented progress on the other), meanwhile I got an A rank during Onslaught, but it was before I got the A rank mission. So if we had 2 solo missions instead of 2 pre-made missions (one being the initial complete Onslaught with every role and the A rank at the same time) then they both could have been completed together and real progress could have been felt.

Fisherman Fizz2 votes

Any possibility of making a full on raid fight sometime? The Rift herald boss fight was pretty cool and I feel like there's potential for a full on, longer fight with more complex mechanics to it.

Kloqdq2 votes

I really hope Riot will consider doing more PvE modes in the future. They are just so refreshing to play and really allow for a different change of pace. I know a lot more MOBAs are trying to mix PvE into their games as it allows for 2 different groups of players and it just allows those groups to swap when they want to try something different.

It's just such a different and rewarding experience to do something like beat the Big One or kill Teemo in these game modes. (Do that with Baron you here ;)!) Just hoping you guys keep these modes up and support them just as much as the PvP!

Trash11 votes

How difficult is it to make a whole new game mode in the current leagu engine?

RiotL4T3NCY5 votes

Depends entirely on the scope and style of mode.

The Invasion mode in particular was very complex, as this style of PvE isn't really something that had been done before in LoL. Modes that are closer to regular league, like say Blood Moon, might not be as technically demanding, but could still require a lot of design time during prototype to find the mode's final shape. Unfortunately not as simple as being able to say "It's X months!", but it's very case-by-case.

iahim981 votes

As this mode seems one of/or the biggest mode we got, how long did it take?

Proxyo1 votes

I do think alot of players actually highly enjoy PvE content in this game and anything added that could be a perma feature would be incredible and hopefully worthwhile

PopcornBunni1 votes

In the future, have an intermediate mode for these kinds of events, and have missions be based around completing that difficulty or higher.

Hell, it could even allow onslaught to be made even more challenging if there was something a step above normal without needing to pray to RNG that you get doable maps.

Flemman1 votes

If I had to choose, I wouldn't remove the 5 man premade condition, just icebox the idea for a bit.

Those was already used in the past (poolparty event, ip weekend, community event) and it was fine, nobody really complained about it. The main reason for it was that for poeple with short friend list/who couldn't find 5 guys at the same time, public chat room was there for them.

That was the safety valve for premade achievement, every player could default to the chat room and find a premade in the game really quickly.

Since the new client is live, that fonction was removed and is replacement isn't there yet. Sometime there is a mention of it but no real stuff, only the "we work on something different that what you used in the past"

So, to me, premade mission shouldn't had been live before this new "chat" was implemented in the client. Along the line, as you didn't wait for it and with the lack of info about it (no client roadmap since a lot of time), I start to think that we will never get the successor of public chat :(

Nightmist0011 votes

Any one want to help me with the premade missions?

Purple Nim1 votes

Why are we not allowed to have access to these awesome game modes atleast in custom games? I know you've said that you don't want to split the community but frankly that is a stupid reason seeing how big of an audience you have and you seemingly trying to shoehorn it in to playing the mode you want them to play. The idea about rotating a single game mode while restricting your access to the 1-2 that you really enjoy for sometimes a month is very silly. Hell I'd much rather play murder bridge than howling abyss in aram and have GP as announcer for my games... and the music... now that brings an entirely different question to mind: Why do you even spend the time, effort and resources on content that we are gonna experience for a very limited time or sometimes never again when you can just stop doing this and focus on a more permanent addition to the game.

Please Riot, we need variety in terms of game modes.

LA7731 votes

Can't wait to see what blood moon with tanks would look like...[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

CoolKnightST1 votes

Hotfix: Time limit implemented

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