Doom Bots of Doom Q&A with the Play team. 7/23, 2PM - 4PM PST

RiotL4T3NCY·Jul 23, 2014·49 votes·237,274 views

Heya everyone ^_^/

Our latest Featured Game Mode, the "Doom Bots of Doom", was just released, and the Play team wanted to field any suggestions or questions you guys might have! We take care of all the Featured Game Modes, so feel free to ask us anything about the Doom Bots (or previous Featured Game Modes). We also want to hear your tales of DOOM! Which bots are the hardest? Which Bonus Doom combinations are the coolest (most OP?)?

We'll be online from now for 2 hours from 2:00PM ~ 4:00PM PST. Come and say "Hi!".

-L4T3NCY -BuffMePlz -Riot Case -Ponts -RoboLions

EDIT: Thanks for stopping by to chat with us everyone, but we need to get back to making the next FGM! Some great questions here that I'm glad we could finally provide answers to.

See you on the Rift. :)

813 Comments

siv117Jul 23, 201472 votes

I always laugh in fear when a random garen comes spinning out of the bush. Great job to whoever came up with that one.

RiotBuffMePlzJul 23, 201439 votes

That was Riot Case's idea, and it was actually one of the first Bonus Doom ideas we implemented!

JulikesJul 23, 201414 votes

I know that garen from videos but I have never seen him ingame :D

RiotBuffMePlzJul 23, 201448 votes

Then you are doing a good job of not facechecking brush without vision. =)

XeetoJul 23, 201453 votes

Is urf coming back?

RiotL4T3NCYJul 23, 2014188 votes

We've been overwhelmed by the awesome response from everyone on URF mode. We're glad everyone had a blast, so did we! As we've shown with One For All: Mirror Mode, popular game modes are destined to be re-released at some point. Before we do this though, we need to improve on modes for a better player experience that equals more fun for everyone.

Given URF's popularity, we want to bring it back, and even better than it was the first time around. We wanna play it too!! >o</

HiddenAce1Jul 23, 201446 votes

Hi just a quick question are you guys working on developing a sandbox mode? If so will it be permanent on the server? And if not, why, sandbox mode could accelerate the level of play in each division and even in competitive players, learning in the ins and outs of each little mechanic would be really amazing to watch, learn, and play.

discotech667Jul 23, 201422 votes

Hello guys!

With each new game mode that is released, I find that my interest in League is refreshed after playing hundreds of PvP matches, and my eyes on where the game could go are opened to new and exciting possibilities.

However, with the breaths of fresh air and new gameplay that these featured game modes bring to the game, I have always been curious to why they are not permanently integrated into the game to stay? Sure, there are several bugs and tweaks that could be brought to each new game mode, but why recall the game modes that the community loves and not just leave them live?

For example, the infamous Ultra Rapid Fire mode in June was so incredibly amazing to play and to experience. It left me craving for more URF madness and I was very disappointed to see it leave. When it comes to normal League matches, there really isn't much room for "fun" as it were. PvP matches are always somewhat stressful and you are constantly focusing on winning and outplaying your opponent. With the featured game modes (especially with URF), there seemed to be that little injection of fun into League that I think is needed here and there.

So once again, my question is this: why not just leave these featured games modes like URF and Doom Bots within the live version without recalling them back to the workshop?

Keep up the good work, guys! I'm excited for what you will bring to the table after Doom Bots have crawled back to their scary hovels!

RiotRiot VelocityJul 23, 201422 votes

Do you guys feel that you properly captured the scariest parts of all the bots that were included in the game mode?

Were there any champions that you wish could have made it into the game mode?

blast2001Jul 23, 2014182 votes

Jax with a real weapon :/

DoktorRepulsorJul 23, 2014134 votes

Nautilus as he appears in the cinematic

DocOptJul 23, 201453 votes

Needed more AD champions, stacking MR made the mode quite easy, with only Ezreal and Wukong, there were a lot of games against just AP champs.

I really wanted Udyr, Could have had all stances up all the time, refreshing every 15, 10, 5 seconds. Stick Shadow walk on him and have a good time.

Jimbo the BearJul 23, 201431 votes

I feel if Zed was in the bots mode that would have been amazing! He could have more shadows and be able to switch between them. Would have been so good in my opinion. Also, I don't like that you added Lux , her snares are stupid and piss me off xD

TehemaiJul 23, 201421 votes

Why did you make ip gain so low? I had to stop playing after the first day because the income made is like worse than that of beginner bots for level 30s when you consider all the losing that you will be sure to be doing. There is no motivation to keep playing after beating it once, only punishment.

I mean what kind of reward for finally triumphing over 5 bombs doom bots in a long grueling match is 60 ip? You can say it's about the journey not the reward, but when someone chooses to give you a reward so insultingly low, it diminishes the whole experience, makes you lose any sense of accomplishment and certainly does not make you want to undertake it ever again.

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201429 votes

Our goal is to make fun experiences for people that are rewarding in their own right (yes it is about the journey). Our hope is that replayability will come from players being excited to try new champions and challenge themselves to beat the bots in interesting ways.

If we do decide to focus on rewards for participating in game modes it is unlikely that they will be IP based, we could certainly come up with some systems to celebrate game mode related achievements. That said, we could have done a better job of tuning the IP as compared to other COOP vs AI queues, we'll try to be more mindful of that going forward.

PhoenixUnrealJul 23, 201412 votes

Maybe give a reward other than IP? It sounds crazy at first because that could be seen as interfering with the financial structure, (and indirectly you) but i was thinking, maybe give a special ward skin or something, similar to the icon for a certain number of games, or something special you have to do in-game to unlock it, like triple-kill a group of doombots.

My ideas aren't necessarily the best but the idea might be worth some thought, especially since it is about the journey and new, fresh experiences.

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201420 votes

We would definitely like to do more rewards, and have experimented with it for events like Showdown. More experiments are coming :)

Viro MelchiorJul 23, 201422 votes

I don't think that they need to be particularly rewarding. But when the IP gain is SO abysmal, you are actually giving something up in order to play. That's - you know - the opposite of a reward.

You are effectively PAYING IP to play the game mode, because if you didn't play it, you'd be earning more IP no matter what you did. If the game mode at least gave the same IP as playing vs Intermediate Bots, it wouldn't feel like a total kick-in-the-nuts, but would still be less IP-favorable than playing normal games.

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201410 votes

We agree the economics of it were a fail on our part. In the end we hope the mode was fun enough to be worth some of your time. Going forward we will make sure IP rewards are in line with what you guys would expect.

Aika TsubeJul 23, 201420 votes

Do you have any plans to create a rotating cycle of game modes that switch out each week? Eg. Champion Free Week but with game modes instead.

RiotL4T3NCYJul 23, 201420 votes

This is something we've been considering. If there's a healthy way to do this, we'd like to give it a try!

SupafeedJul 23, 201418 votes

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201469 votes

Why hello there

Lord MilutinJul 23, 201414 votes

Hello! Morgana, Galio and Lux are definitely hardest for me. We really struggle against them, and I never won on 5 bombs. :D I just wanna say that his game mode is my favorite since I love playing vs bots, and I can't wait to see this return the same or even better - improved (with more champions) in the near future. Who is the hardest for you guys? :)

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201433 votes

For me it is Malzahar . When he is level 6+ and running at you, you know that it's all over if he gets in range O_O

george24581Jul 23, 201452 votes

its all ogre now

BaccadcJul 23, 201414 votes

Why did you decide to go from lvl 1 - lvl 2 - lvl 5?

RiotBuffMePlzJul 23, 201434 votes

Because counting is hard. =(

It's because we wanted to more accurately portray the jump between difficulty levels to better set expectations. The gap between 1 bomb and 2 bombs was objectively smaller than the gap between 2 bombs and 5 bombs. Also 5 seemed like a pretty good number.

SoulTheEaterJul 24, 2014175 votes

I thought it was a reference to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dZIutRz9hw

danioliableJul 23, 201414 votes

what's the crazyest thing you guys thought of when making these insane kits?

RiotBuffMePlzJul 23, 201467 votes

We had a version of Malphite Bot who would basically use a version of Unstoppable Force with a global cast range as a substitute for Teleport.

...His cross-map ganks were INSANE.

Ziggy IreliaJul 23, 201438 votes

Can you like release a test video of that? i would LOVE to see that!

RiotL4T3NCYJul 23, 201476 votes

It was pretty cool, but also broken in many places. Like he could use it to just bail from a team fight he was losing.

One time Doom Malphite was 1v4'ing us, even killed a few but was starting to lose... so when things looked bad, he just used his ult to peace-out back to his base.... as far as Doom Malphite was concerned, he was "ganking his own fountain".. :/

Captain AlejoJul 23, 201414 votes

I'd love to hear some thoughts on the implications of this mode on training new players to utilize alternate strategies to win.

The existing bots do a great job of acclimating users to basic gameplay, but they do little in the way of exposing some of the more complex mechanics or strategies. In discussing Doom bots with some of my more skilled friends (Plat+) we began to realize that while the mode does put players in a very uneven environment, it does encourage split pushing and objective control. This is something I didn't anticipate going into the mode and realize it could be a very effective tool to acclimate newer players to some of these advanced concepts.

Do any of you guys agree that the mode does a good job of encouraging alternate win strategies? Was this identified during development or ever a factor in design direction?

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201421 votes

It certainly highlights the importance of objectives more than I've ever seen before. This wasn't a goal of ours during development, but if people learn to approach their games more strategically as a result, awesome!

KrosanJul 23, 201428 votes

Who came up with the idea of allowing the Bots to mass-Gate to objectives?

I was soloing Dragon the other day, when I saw TF ult particles, and suddenly the entire enemy team spawned in on top of me. Just about dropped a brick. So, high five to whoever you are, you magnificent bastard.

RiotRoboLionsJul 23, 201437 votes

Riot Case came up with this little trick. I'd say I'm sorry for getting you pwned, but that would be a lie.

KataiKiJul 23, 201411 votes

Were the ones included the only champions you worked on? Or were there some scrapped ideas for bots that didn't make the cut?

RiotL4T3NCYJul 23, 2014114 votes

Should have gone through with this......... :)

pcostyJul 23, 20149 votes

Hey guys,

Would you consider removing the level restriction on Doom Bots?

I was trying to play with an NA friend earlier, but couldn't because his EUW account was only level 2. Really unfortunate and super sucky.

I get why you would have a restriction, but featured game modes can be a fun, non-serious way for us to play with friends from other regions. Especially if we have a group of 5 and it's against AI.

Cheers.

RiotBuffMePlzJul 23, 201440 votes

We generally add these restrictions because game modes are alternate ways of exploring League of Legends in the context of League of Legends. We don't want a new player's first experience in League of Legends to be in an alternate game mode, where the rules don't make sense if you aren't familiar with League of Legends.

That said, we should empower players to make those decisions, and your situation is likely not an uncommon one. We will likely revisit our stance on queue restrictions for future modes.

OH NO ITS LU BUJul 23, 20145 votes

Was the thought of a Darius bot too frightening to make it through the planning phase? What was the main reason certain champs were cut?

RiotRiot CaseJul 23, 20147 votes

Basically, we started with a very large list of ideas and then focused on a small set we felt has the most potential.

When we started exploring possibilities, we knew we wanted to avoid straight power amplification, in favor of powers that would induce different play patterns. Some kits, like Darius', didn't lend themselves as well to this approach as other champs.

We also wanted to be able to "sell" the doom power visually, so we naturally got attracted by champs with good "fireworks" potential.

Also, shooting out skillshots is something our bots are pretty good at ;)

With that said, we still have a massive list of ideas (including non AP mages :P) that we are excited about potentially revisiting in the future!

OH NO ITS LU BUJul 23, 201418 votes

Nautilus depth charge splitting up and going after every champ in vision. Pls make it happen.

QuinzacJul 23, 20145 votes

Hi again, :-), another question. Will we ever be able to see a game mode where we'll be able to have the Doom Abilities. Even though we would need more champions with Doom Abilities to make that more fun, I would love to be able to use Doom Tibbers >:-) Annie

RiotL4T3NCYJul 23, 201416 votes

The Doom Bot's skills were designed specifically with bots in mind, and that's key to why they work at all. The bots do not optimise their behaviour in any way to take real advantage of the skills. This constant 'predictable' logic is what creates the clear counterplay patterns for Doomed abilites (Lux's laser pattern. Fiddle's ghost ulti's). This would not be the case if controlled by humans in their current shape.

There's still the seed of an idea there though, where players get crazy / warped abilities, but that's a different game mode (and would need to be balanced accordingly).

atlas304Jul 23, 20143 votes

hi, i really enjoy this mode (almost 50 games played!) and have some questions (which im sure may have been asked already so dont worry about it.

why so heavily focused on ap champions?
why couldnt we spectate friends playing (i get why, but did you think maybe you could have changed it?)

a nice thing about this game mode is that it heavily relies on your team to actually use teamwork and adjusting between offence and defence (except when you get matched with the always split pushing people, which is a good sign for an easy loss).

i look forward to future game modes, thanks.

RiotRiot CaseJul 23, 201415 votes

TL;DR: Skillshots rock, "bullet hell" gameplay sounded cool enough to experiment with, Auto Attacks were not as sexy.
We definitely missed an opportunity with spectating doom bot matches. We weren't sure of how compelling of an experience it would be, so it stayed out of mind. Once shipped, it became clear that watching your friends get pounded was a big part of the fun.

Should we revisit this mode, we'll certainly want to make spectating games possible.

TalodinJul 23, 20142 votes

What was the biggest issue/glitch you had to deal with while making this game mode>

RiotPontsJul 23, 201412 votes

Other than making sure all the abilities where fun and unique there were a few issues and glitches we ran into.

I'd say the biggest issue we had from a tech side was making sure performance wasn't totally destroyed. There's a lot of extra particles in this mode and Bonus Doom: GPU Overload wasn't as fun as we originally thought it'd be. :P

My favorite glitch hmm? I think that would have to be that for a while Karthus was able to go untargetable while he was in Anivia Egg passive. He would also turn on Defile... so you'd kill him and end up standing next to an untargetable egg doing massive aoe damage to you!