Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 6.22, big changes in the preseason!

RiotAesah·11/9/2016, 7:45:58 PM·1 votes·119,633 views

new "Minions" art created by inkinesss!

Hey guys! Welcome to Patch Chat, a Dev Corner thread we make to talk about our new patches every two weeks: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-622-notes

I'm Aesah on Riot's Playtest Team, a group of Diamond+ players who play with the new champions, reworks, balance tweaks, items, and map updates before they are released. It's our job to the test the changes that our designers come up with and ensure that we're introducing positive changes to LoL in terms of both balance and fun. We'll be watching this thread to answer as many questions as we can.

6.22 is our preseason patch, and it is HUGE so I won't be going into as much detail as usual, rather just listing everything here as a reference for us to discuss it within the thread. Client update. Major assassin update for Talon, Katarina, Leblanc, and Rengar. Minor updates for Fizz, Kha'zix, Akali, Zed, Ekko, and Shaco. Alistar and Twitch updates, and tweaks to Ivern and Kled. Stealth changes including Control Wards and shimmering. Flat penetration replaced with Lethality on runes, items, and masteries. A ton of item changes: support itemization notably including Locket, Knight's Vow, and Redemption; assassin Itemization such as Edge of Night, Duskblade, and Ghostblade; and a bunch more. Mastery changes, most notably Fervor and Battle changes and Courage of the Collosus replacing Strength of Ages. Seeds in the jungle including Blast Cone, Scryer's Bloom, and Honeyfruit. Different jungle camps and Smite. Update to minions, turrets, and neutral epics.

All of us on the Playtest Team are avid gamers so feel free to talk to us as fellow LoL players!

Adam "Afic" Cohen Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Don “Aesah” Ding Nicolas “Gleeb” Haddad Dan “penguin” Hardison Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard Bao “Bao” Lam Robert “ROBERTxLEE” Lee Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “S0be” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

425 Comments

sixths11/9/2016, 9:35:44 PM52 votes

I understand that the plants were to add diversity etc, but my problem is that by doing so I feel you added more stuff for EVERYONE to do in the jungle but removed stuff for the JUNGLER to do in the jungle. I actually enjoyed thinking about my smite and what would be best to use it on: do i need the health from bramble? the dot shield from gromp? better clear with krugs? anti-vision with raptor? i think the entire removal of these and addition of plants was a shot in the dark for a change just for the sake of change that was not at all needed.

edit: btw after watching qtpie play with these plants they just seem very lackluster. there were a couple times that someone blasted over a wall and it was like "cool...?" and a few times people healed up with the green plant and it was like "nice...?", but overall it was just a random thing to hit on your way through the jungle whether you needed it at the time or not, if not to help you to deny the chance of someone else from benefitting from it. very very unimpressed with the entire concept.

Roit Gums11/9/2016, 7:51:10 PM19 votes

Will shaco receive any buffs in the future even if they are atleast small? (shaco main here)

KSAP11/9/2016, 10:00:03 PM11 votes

Singed main here, I see Strength of the Ages was removed. Although Singed is a splitpusher (Strength of the Ages benefitted him greatly with his late game scaling and farm), and does decent damage with his DOT, Singed's primary role is ultimately a tank. None of the other Resolve masteries are efficient on him, Grasp is for duelist-tanks and Bond is for tank-supports. The inefficiency in the Resolve Tree forces players to choose DFT, which as a keystone is not bad but it's kind of forcing a playstyle, which makes the idea of "choosing" a mastery pointless. This compounds when you realize that Singed will also lose 15% Slow Resist and Tenacity if you switch over. What is the rationale behind this decision and what is a solution to offset the problem this causes?

I know I main Singed so I'm in a minority, and I know you are busy answering other players questions, but if you could take a little time to answer mine I would really appreciate it. You guys are doing great work and no matter what happens I'll still play. GLHF Riot.

Mishli11/9/2016, 9:36:26 PM9 votes

I like 2/3 of the fruits. the blastcone feels like it can make some fun plays scryer's bloom feels a little clunky, but works as a substitute for raptor buff

but i'm honestly really concerned about the honeysuckle. Champs that can very quickly shove and roam are often very oppressive already, now that they can roam and heal up without even going b. It feels like this just encourages the 'shove and roam' playstyle.

how did this impact the design of the plants?

warpenguin55511/9/2016, 7:51:44 PM6 votes

Why is Malzahar getting gutted on the PBE? Not having his voidlings target enemies with his E is going to make him feel awful to play. I can live with the rest of the changes but please do not ship this one. Malzahar needs to be able to direct his voidlings in some way

Orangechrisy11/10/2016, 5:14:29 AM6 votes

So... about shaco, you guys are always saying you want to help champions strengths and their character, but you've done the opposite with shaco. His big traits were: really good early game, bad late game, good at split pushing, bad at team fights, mind games, and trickery. Now, what happened? You guys have given him a better late and weaker early, a better team fight potential and worse splitpushing, gimmicky buffs to his trickery.

I see something wrong when a lot of shaco players do not like the changes and they completely change his play style. What pushed you guys to do this just because some people find it hard to face shaco or play against him.
He is also now forced to max q first no matter the situation instead of having options between all 3 depending on play style. That just plain wrong. Would it not of been better to nerf his early game by changing the mana costs instead of changing his kit?

Passive: Was a really simple passive that fit thematically and was good dispite many other champs getting increasingly complex passives and abilities. Now part of shaco q replaces it and has a cool down as well as not affecting all his abilities.

Q: This was actually one of the best assassin abilities made because it means shaco has one way in, or one way out, but he can't use it for both unless he stays in the fight a bit. This is a really well made ability for shaco, it makes him rely on other means to get out of a fight and not die if he can't quickly do his job. Now the changes mean his early game absolutely sucks, he is forced to max q first so that it isn't just a vayne ult tumble which means he can't upgrade e. And e's base damage was completely gutted so it does no damage early game and since you need to max q first it won't deal damage until mid to late game. I just don't understand why this was done. Why completely change his play style? (Also, what's the reasoning behind giving it an ap ratio? What are the thoughts behind this move?)

W: Ok, I see there is a bias towards ap shaco here, the buffs here are fine at best, IF THE STACKING WASNT REMOVED, the stacking is so vital in shaco's early game and late game if you are going ap or if you want to cancel some abilities like a fear should. Also, I get that you guys don't like his playstyle of splitpushing when he starts to fall off, but really, why nerf the damage of his box which is already prioritized by towers to do even less damage to towers. Why? Just why? The buffs to this ability feel like really terrible compensation buffs to the changes. But just what was the idea behind removing the stacking?

E: Ok, you can't just gut the 2 damaging abilities and then force us to max the one that deals less damage. One of shaco strengths is having a good early game, you can't just completely destroy his early game. The base damage of the shiv is gutted all the way to the ground. Straight through the ground. You do realize that many different builds are helped because this ability has decent base damage? Like tank, or bruiser? These changes are not just going to force him into maxing certain abilities, but also into either ap or ad, other builds were crushed. I get that the ad ratio was buffed to include base damage, but what about that needed ap ratio?

R: less damage to towers, takes DOUBLE damage from towers so splitpushing is killed. Take away his splitpushing power so that he can get a mini "pink ward" joke that is quite useless. What the hell was going on the head of whoever thought this? Seriously? Why?

Conclusion: a ton of shaco mains hate the changes, you know the guy who created a ton of great content and had a great shaco name? You know shaclone? Yeah he quit cause of these changes. Nice job.

Actual conclusion: Completely changing his playstyle, ruining his early game and his splitpushing, removing his ideas and gameplay even though most dedicated shaco players do no like the changes. Why is he going from an early game power stopped if you play against him right to a late game guy with a ruined early game? Why is there a need to make him a team fighter from him being bad at team fights and good at splitpushing, why the need to change it? Shaco was one of the kings of different play styles and builds, that's ruined now. His main strengths gutted to move them to the opposite of what they were. I don't see why these changes were implemented. Shaco isn't popular, takes a lot of practice to be good with him, people who play shaco don't wasn't him to be like this. If this is how a small adjusting is, I can't imagine how that shaco vgu (that rioters keep saying they want to do in the future) will go, I don't want to lose faith, but these changes make me want to. Im already dealing with trump being elected, I don't want to deal with my favorite champ to be gutted like this. Just please, listen and revert these changes, they're not wanted.

Solutions: 1: Revert these changes, now, we don't want to play with them. 2: No really, stop, revert them. 3: Please, it's not the way we want shaco's gameplay and playstyle to head. 4: If you want to nerf his early game, nerf his mana costs, his q goes from 90-50 which is an effective way to make sure that he can't use his q much early game and let's him be a bit more carefree late game. Why not do this a bit more for his q and bit for his e? 5: Don't take away builds, upgrade paths, and play styles just because his early game is bit strong for those who don't ward the river bushes and then say his ganks are op. Find ways to nerf his early game other than drastically changing who he is. 6: Whatever you do, DO NOT LEAVE HIM LIKE THIS AND ATTEMPT TO MAKE SLIGHT BUFFS AND SAY THAT YOU ARE MONITERING HIM AND HOW IS DOING. Just don't. This has happened before and has left those champs gutted with their player base sad and angry. We do not want that to happen to shaco. 7: Talk with shaco players about the changes, I don't think any changes have been made despite the outcry.

Thank you for reading all this, I'm not giving a tldr, just read it. Please consider how shaco players feel about these changes. And please, just revert them, I know you guys will say you are moniterring the situation and watching how he is doing, we get it, but we don't want him in this state, we want him like he is before the preseason.

  • A shaco main
Albertoplus11/9/2016, 9:12:22 PM5 votes

Warwick rework when!! :(

After the next champ, but will still be possible to release him before the end of year?

ROX Peanut11/9/2016, 8:47:07 PM5 votes

The small raptors seem to be quite tanky and do much dmg - Do they get nerfed a bit?

thornbello11/9/2016, 8:52:26 PM5 votes

Did you at any point during playtesting point out to the champion update team that rengar has olaf ult on a basic ability?

Emojay11/9/2016, 7:49:42 PM5 votes

Do the vision plants reveal invisibility and/or camouflage? If they do, eve might not be as broken as I thought this patch....

TheBloodBull11/10/2016, 4:21:56 AM5 votes

Yeah so you removed Strength of the ages, and replaced it, but the thing is Nunu doesn't have hard cc, so you basically just destroyed Nunu after just reworking and nerfing him. I'm not sure what signals you are sending me anymore Riot. -_- Nunu

Doo0m11/9/2016, 8:48:18 PM4 votes

soo r u planning to get draft pick back to euen itss seems very bad to only play blind pick i cant pick my lane unless u write ur lane firstt itss bad

NodirjonSattarov11/9/2016, 8:49:56 PM4 votes

Bruh, what's up with Kog'Maw? 44% win rate with a >.5% play rate after he ate 6.19 nerfs and 6.21 nerfs (ult became a terrible poke and a limp execution). When can we expect a change? Skillcap clearly has nothing to do with it seeing as I have 480 ranked games on Kog'maw but still can't win more than 50% of my games now.

Mishli11/9/2016, 9:39:08 PM2 votes

do you feel like the new items have given assassins too many options (utility) compared to the more limited options of mages?

how has balancing been with invis champs now that there's no way to reveal them at all? It feels like vayne and akali will be very oppressive now because their invis is mostly on their own terms?

MelissaLikesCows11/9/2016, 10:12:59 PM2 votes

What are your guys opinion on Shen? Do you feel like he is too weak in lane at the moment?

Autumn Leafeon11/9/2016, 9:01:03 PM1 votes

Hello...this may be a noob question if the answer is already out there, but with the new mastery that replaced SOA, does item CC (such as rylai's) or exhaust (summoner spell) proc the shield, or is it hard stun CC?

brutusclawson11/9/2016, 10:21:52 PM1 votes

What it the reasoning behind making a champ with a high skill floor and skill ceiling Eg. Katarina rework. Will this not cause a major balancing problem between majority low elo and high elo play?

KSAP11/9/2016, 10:40:30 PM1 votes

TL;DR (from previous comment; last one was too long)

Singed was a top laner that I feel was negatively affected by the Strength of the Ages removal, do you feel the same and are you guys keeping a close eye on that? Thanks.

Merxamers11/9/2016, 8:07:20 PM1 votes

Questions regarding a couple of things in the patch notes:

  1. The changes to Alistar seem like a straight up nerf, for a champion that doesn't seem all that problematic to me. Making his "Triumphant Roar" unreliable seems like an odd move, and it seems as if it will be very difficult to trigger during team fights. Additionally, his trample damage always seemed negligible to me, so putting it as one of his abilities seems weird. How much of a damage threat is this ability in practice, or is it just a tool to sometimes proc his roar?

  2. As a Kha'zix main, i'm mostly happy with the changes (on a surface level), but i'm also worried because a lot of the changes seem like a straight BUFF, which means he'll be gutted later. Making the passive scale with AD massively increases his effectiveness at clearing the (now isolated) buff camps, and once he hits 6 he'll have insane dragon capabilities. I like the changes to W and R, but buffing everything else on an already pretty strong champion is just asking for the nerf bat later down the line.