Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 7.4

RiotAesah·Feb 23, 2017·1 votes·82,237 views

new "Minions" art created by inkinesss!

Hey guys! Welcome to Patch Chat, a Dev Corner thread we make to talk about our new patches every two weeks: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-74-notes

I'm Aesah on Riot's Playtest Team, a group of Diamond+ players who play with the new champions, reworks, balance tweaks, items, and map updates before they are released. It's our job to the test the changes that our designers come up with and ensure that we're introducing positive changes to LoL in terms of both balance and fun. We'll be watching this thread to answer as many questions as we can.

7.4 comes with a variety of changes. On the armor penetration front, Black Cleaver has been too consistently powerful as an offensive first item, so some of the power is being shifted into defensive stats. Last Whisper will a lot more effective in it's tank-busting role as a base item without the upgrades. Lethality seems decent right now, so Ghostblade is getting a nerf (Lethality is likely to be looked at more in the near future). For masteries, damage is going down across the board. In the bot lane, we're making Fervor a more attractive option relative to Warlord's Bloodlust which should lead to more exciting high moments rather than farmfests. Champions with notable changes include a big change to Cho'gath's ultimate to encourage tank builds, nerfs to overperforming champions (Maokai, Jhin, Ryze, and Corki), and a roaming buff for Bard.

All of us on the Playtest Team are avid gamers so feel free to talk to us as fellow LoL players!

Adam "Afic" Cohen Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Don “Aesah” Ding Nicolas “Gleeb” Haddad Dan “penguin” Hardison Robert “ROBERTxLEE” Lee Rob "King Cobra" Rosa Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “S0be” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes Arnor "TheLastAirbender" Halldorsson

171 Comments

ShadowParkerFeb 23, 20177 votes

What are your guys' thoughts on the interaction between Olaf ult and blast cone?

I just remember this game where an Olaf on my team was trying to escape the enemy with his ult active and so he hit the blast cone and didn't go anywhere. He ended up dying.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 23, 20172 votes

Olaf becomes a raging piece of meat that becomes unstoppable. You think he's going to understand the idea of Trig?

RiotAesahFeb 23, 201718 votes

lmao thats hilarious

RiotplaytestpenguinFeb 27, 20175 votes

working as intended

jesuisunParpaingFeb 23, 20177 votes

Hi, in the name of every single Yorick main when will u release a new Yorick skin? You guys only release only one skin on more than 5 years, while champs like tf or teemo got at least more than 9 skins... item 3070 Yorick

RiotRiot ThEntropistFeb 23, 201710 votes

We are not the people who choose which champions get skins. Sorry T_T

RegaliaFeb 23, 20176 votes

IS there a reason why you prefer nerfing lethality instead of addressing the itemization problem that ADC suffer atm ?

RiotAesahFeb 23, 20178 votes

there's work being done on ADC itemization, it's actually pretty complicated so might not see anything in the immediate future

Ark Angel HFBFeb 23, 20176 votes

Did any of you actually test how the sweeper change is destroying Shaco's start?

A lone support can now clear my whole starting camp of boxes from over a wall... before recalling with enough time to switch to yellow trinket and get to his jungle in time to leash.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 23, 201712 votes

That support is really out of position then, and could likely get caught out if your team is standing by.

Ark Angel HFBFeb 24, 20173 votes

Right but they won't be alone.

Due to some oddness with how the boxes stack and how far Shaco can place a box over a wall, Shaco will have to be in the redbuff pit.

Meaning that if the enemy team invades it is 3v4... before allies could fall back to the second bush and together stack and cover there...

If your team didn't stack there the enemy still had to walk into the boxes and trigger them taking a risk...

However now the enemy doesn't have to face check that second bush at all... the support just walks up next to redbuff wall and sweepers over the wall clearing all of your boxes and then they back out...

Support recalls and switches to yellow trinket and is back in time to leash for the jungler. The yellow trinket will be on cd for roughly a minute of time that it matters... but Shaco will be delayed by roughly 15 seconds, a smite, and at least 1 health pot.

In diamond where timing is everything it screws you over for a solid 5 minutes or so... all of your ganks and counter gank options are off their normal timings and it takes away most of your pressure.

The Bad TouchFeb 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Angel HFB,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=LWBZ3xwJ,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-02-23T20:41:13.847+0000)

Did any of you actually test how the sweeper change is destroying Shaco's start?

A lone support can now clear my whole starting camp of boxes from over a wall... before recalling with enough time to switch to yellow trinket and get to his jungle in time to leash.

You realise you can just put the nest closer to the gromp side and avoid that right? The main reason for this change was to prevent Shaco from using boxes to turret dive. Which personally was a nerf I don't see being needed. He's already fairly low on the jungle tier list. Who cares if he could eat a single tower shot will a well timed box? Lee build bruiser, has a shield, does similar damage, and can soak tower shots with his face like a boss... and still has a reliable escape.

RiotplaytestpenguinFeb 27, 20174 votes

Honestly -- shaco is powerful enough to take this hit without any issues.

Mister FisheyFeb 23, 20175 votes

Liked and understood all the changes, so no questions. Thanks for all the work y'all do! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

RiotAesahFeb 23, 201721 votes

Liked and understood all the changes

whoa

SloopeFeb 23, 20175 votes

Got a quick question regarding the rotating game mode "ARURF". Are you ever gonna go back to normal URF or is ARURF the new "normal?" One of the really nice things in the original URF was setting up ridiciouls teamcomps or testing how busted a specific champ is with 80% cdr and no spell costs.

Not here to complain just wondering if OG URF will rotate in as well as ARURF.

Other than that the patch looks fine (y)

/Sloope

RiotAesahFeb 23, 20172 votes

No promises as we don't decide that, but I'd guess that regular URF will be back at some point

KnightofMorriganFeb 24, 20175 votes

"WELL-EARNED Wards now grant full gold to both the player who revealed them and the player who killed them (bonuses don’t stack if the revealer also kills the ward)"

#supportbuffs [zombie-nunu-hearts]

Illâoi Evê SiônFeb 23, 20173 votes

Any tips on building Cho'Gath now, or do you still build him the same? I thought maybe he'd have more freedom in his item choices because he gets more Health and his damage scales with Health.

RiotplaytestpenguinFeb 27, 20172 votes

I think the same build with perhaps a titanic hydra is good. HP + Resists are Cho's bread and butter due to the amount of HP he acquires over game time. Items like Frozen Heart are also good as he loves CDR.

ShínyFeb 23, 20173 votes

So... it isn't documented officially anywhere, but i was wondering if any of you could tell me how lifesteal interacts with yorick's ghouls? I know it does work , I just don't know how effective it is.

KallianFeb 24, 20173 votes

hey, i dunno if you're the ones to ask but are you going to look at quinn sometime soon? she seems so overloaded (especally with lethality)

harlynxFeb 23, 20172 votes

Hello, I'd really want Wit's End to be a viable item but it's most likely forgotten. How come?

chemical synergyFeb 24, 20172 votes

if 70 percent of your player base is in bronze and sliver why are diamonds deciding our fate just a question.

K 2Feb 26, 20173 votes

if you balance the game entirely around lower levels of play, the higher levels would change so drastically the game would be unplayable. i think riot realizes that skill levels can change with practice for an individual or even the majority of players (wide meta changes and spread of information generally means today's average league player plays more skilled than 2010's average League player) and would choose not to kill off League for the players that have committed countless hours of play to get better at the game.

SpideraxeFeb 23, 20171 votes

Heyyo, guess i'm early so i'll start by asking about the lethality, are there any plans for Duskblade since the other two lethality items are getting nerfed and do you guys feel its more of an item problem rather than a state problem. And one more thing can actually ask questions about playtesting in general

Ashen RiderFeb 23, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Heyyo, guess i'm early so i'll start by asking about the lethality, are there any plans for Duskblade since the other two lethality items are getting nerfed and do you guys feel its more of an item problem rather than a state problem. And one more thing can actually ask questions about playtesting in general

Duskblade is getting nerfed indirectly, as the damage passive scales off of how much lethality you have. With Youmuu's losing five lethality, and the precision mastery having less as well, the damage on it is getting reduced slightly.

RiotAesahFeb 23, 20175 votes

Duskblade is almost always used in conjunction with the other two lethality items and is probably the weakest of the 3, so don't think it needs to be nerfed (at least right now)

SpideraxeFeb 24, 20172 votes

Oh yeah can I ask how you feel about the Leblanc nerf on the PBE, do you feel its a little over done or are younguys just testing the waters with it

RiotAesahFeb 24, 20175 votes

As a Leblanc main I feel it is a really, really big nerf but she also needs a really, really big nerf.

Kei143Feb 23, 20171 votes

fire first, read your other responses later.

iyo, what is the biggest nerf in this patch?
do you guys ever tilt in your test games?
damage creep is no long as creepy, how do you think tanks will fair?
What do you think will be the new bot (includes support) lane meta this patch?
Is this the new juggernaut meta?
why did cho's r/w not get released in 7.3 ? we even saw the changes yanked, but the same ones came back.
funny / frustrating stories with testing new cho?

RiotplaytestpenguinFeb 27, 20174 votes

iyo, what is the biggest nerf in this patch?

Maokai -- wave control is a really underappreciated and powerful tool in toplane, especially for tanks. I'd expect Nautilus to mostly replace him after this point in pro play, and it was a hefty damage nerf. Between Mao's nerf and Corki's IMO.

do you guys ever tilt in your test games?

lol yes, all the time

damage creep is no long as creepy, how do you think tanks will fair?

Battle Trance was also nerfed, which was a mastery that heavily influenced tanks being crazy. 5% damage amp is nothing to shrug off in extended fights.

What do you think will be the new bot (includes support) lane meta this patch?

With meditation nerfed, there should be more options. I'd expect more variety for support picks and slightly less Zyra/Malz/Brand

Is this the new juggernaut meta?

No clue, I don't know top lane really.

why did cho's r/w not get released in 7.3 ? we even saw the changes yanked, but the same ones came back.

Needed further validation (testing) and cleanup

funny / frustrating stories with testing new cho?

I sit next to the designer who was doing the cho changes, and he was just spam eating annie bots with the cap on Cho'gath's size removed. He was taking up pretty much the entire lane.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 23, 20171 votes

I don't play a lot of support but bard is definitely my favorite. what kind of impact did you see from the chime speed buff?

RiotRiot HjartaFeb 24, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=LWBZ3xwJ,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-02-23T20:39:53.682+0000)

I don't play a lot of support but bard is definitely my favorite. what kind of impact did you see from the chime speed buff?

Hey Monado!

I'm one of the support players (TheLastAirbender) on the playtest team.

It really helps your roaming potential; you can use the chimes to reach your destination even faster now and roam around the map a bit better than before, depending on chimes. We expect the more experienced Bard players to be able to utilize this to its fullest potential since they already have a good feel on when to roam on bard and how to take the fullest advantage of the chimes to roam successfully. It is not a large change but we definitely feel that this change can help in these scenarios :)

Keep chimin' on my dude and give your midlaners some love ;)

OTK RevanchistFeb 23, 20171 votes

Hello Playtest Team!

In regard to the Jhin nerf, what was the reasoning behind cutting power off of his long range map presence?

In the past, Riot has been clear that they tend to focus on honing a champion's strengths and unique attributes and cutting power from unclear or non-defining parts of a champion's kit. I would have expected that for Jhin, the marksman defined by his long range presence (ult damage, slow, snare) with a clear weakness in lacking up-close DPS (reload mechanic), that power would have been taken from his still somewhat high short range DPS rather than his long range presence. Thanks for your time, guys!

RiotRiot HjartaFeb 24, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=OTK Revanchist,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=LWBZ3xwJ,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-02-23T20:57:06.009+0000)

Hello Playtest Team!

In regard to the Jhin nerf, what was the reasoning behind cutting power off of his long range map presence?

In the past, Riot has been clear that they tend to focus on honing a champion's strengths and unique attributes and cutting power from unclear or non-defining parts of a champion's kit. I would have expected that for Jhin, the marksman defined by his long range presence (ult damage, slow, snare) with a clear weakness in lacking up-close DPS (reload mechanic), that power would have been taken from his still somewhat high short range DPS rather than his long range presence. Thanks for your time, guys!

Hey OTK,

I definitely agree with you that Jhin is very defined by his long range capabilties and it may feel like we are reducing some of his cool long range presence. Sure, this does not make him as powerful as he is now in terms of long range presence but this nerf felt needed due to the fact that if he hits his first shot he basically lines up the massively damaging shots afterwards without too much effort. This is extremely rough for squishies that get caught by the first shot and basically get 100-0'd in late game by Jhin's ultimate. So, giving people a slightly larger window (.25 seconds, .75 -> .5 seconds) to move freely to try to perhaps dodge or juke Jhin's shots helps.

Thanks for your comment! Hope this helps explain some of it.

Knight SkyFeb 23, 20171 votes

Hello riot playest, I would like to know if anything is going to be done to buff taliyah? Im sad about her because i love her but shes so bad at the moment I cant play her. Will she be recieveing any sort of buffs or changes in the future?

K 2Feb 23, 20172 votes

i feel like taliyah's numbers are in the right spot- possibly even too strong. high elo taliyah mains range from 52-63% winrates. i think any buffs to her should target her kit responsiveness.

Knight SkyFeb 23, 20172 votes

Im sorry but you are completely wrong, http://champion.gg/statistics/#?search=taliyah , https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/ , Her winrate is 46% which is pitiful. She NEEDS buffs. Prefably a bigger aoe to her W, not the size of chogaths but close. Even riot stated that they are not happy with how her kit turned out but i feel like if riot showed her some love she would be a viable pick. But please use real numbers and stats..

K 2Feb 24, 20174 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Taliyah/Middle look at the graph that says Win Rate % by Games Played and youll see that platinum+ players who have played at least 50 ranked games with taliyah (high elo taliyah mains) have 52-63% winrates

Knight SkyFeb 24, 20172 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Taliyah/Middle Now look at that same graph because that was between 2014 and 2015. Its 2017, she has been tweaked 8 times in 2016 alone. After her massive nerf and a change to her w in 2015 she is in the state she is in now at 46% winrate. So yeah that was true 2 years ago but obviously not now. hence why i say riot needs to show her some love and she needs a BUFF.

ShaolinToiletFeb 24, 20178 votes

She didn't exist 2 years ago

chemical synergyFeb 24, 20174 votes

RiotAesahFeb 24, 20177 votes

Taliyah is a high skillcap champ so her winrates will typically be lower. See also Nidalee, Ryze, Syndra and more for other champs that have low winrates but are strong

CarnicoreFeb 25, 20171 votes

Dumb question: So why don't champions like Garen, Maokai, and Master Yi have higher than typical winrates?

Th3D4rkL0rd02Feb 25, 20172 votes

They're played more often so people lose more often, at least that's my guess.

Riotvo1d seekerFeb 24, 20175 votes

Hey Goku!

There aren't any immediate plans to buff Taliyah. While her overall win rate is low, it is difficult to justify buffing her because she has a high win rate for experienced players and she continues to see occasional pro play (mainly in LCK and EULCS).

Sexy Jack RabbitFeb 24, 20173 votes

It's really sad that so many champions are balanced around professional play. I'd rather Riot just balanced EVERY champion around the LCS or every champion around Solo queue. By trying to do both you just end up with two severely unsatisfied parties. It's like trying to buff a champion around two roles, it just never works.

I would one day like to see Lissandra be viable in Solo Queue again.

MittsponyFeb 25, 20171 votes

As understandable as that is, it's still frustrating for people like me, who are either unranked or in bronze, to play Taliyah. I was trying to get an S on Taliyah for rank 6 and ended up just playing tali games over and over for three months because I couldn't match how the pros were playing. Its also frustrating when Kassadin just ults through your E with no dmg taken and Yasuo wind walls your ulti and cancels it. Lets just say Taliyahs on the bench for now.

K 2Feb 26, 20173 votes

i think one of the most rewarding feelings in this game is the experience of learning to play a high skillcap champion really well. I really enjoy playing Yasuo, Velkoz, Draven, Taliyah because they're so complex. I know that I might win more often if I decided to play more simple champions (exception of Vel- i think he's overpowered), but it's that long period of failing over and over learning Yasuo that makes executing a skilled play so exhilarating. If you really want to enjoy playing Taliyah, don't be discouraged by her difficulty. It doesn't matter what level you play at- you will get better at a champion by playing it more. You won't get better at a champion by waiting for buffs. League may be competitive, but in the end it's a game. Have fun. [slayer-jinx-wink]