Boards›Dev Corner

Ranked 2019 — /dev Update #2

RiotRiot SapMagic·2/1/2019, 12:29:00 AM·1 votes·135,931 views

Hey everyone, Ed “SapMagic” Altorfer here on behalf of the Ranked team. Earlier today, we dug into a few position rank-specific bugs that could affect the quality of matches in North America and Korea. In this post, I want to detail the issues we’re seeing and what we’re doing to fix them.

#MMR Linking and LP Updates for Position Swapping We found a couple bugs that affect how we handle position swapping and could lead to diminished match quality or incorrect LP updates in certain situations.

##Issue: The links between MMRs are not tightening correctly for high-skill players. We talked in /dev: Addressing Your Feedback on Ranked for 2019 about how, behind the scenes, we link your position MMRs together. We tighten those links the more you swap positions to prevent abuse or when you’re close to Master Tier where you have a single rank.

In our investigation, we found the link tightening wasn’t responsive enough for high-skill players. As a result, players who position swapped at Diamond+ found themselves in much easier matches than we intended.

Conclusion: We have fixed this bug for both North America and Korea as of today, January 31 at 2:00 PM GMT-8.

While some players were able to abuse this bug, we want to avoid solutions like resetting the Master+ ladder, which would punish the vast majority of players who earned their LP legitimately. Instead, now that we’ve fixed the issue, players who took advantage of it will get harder matches regardless of swapping, and their ranks will recalibrate as they lose games. We will monitor closely and make additional changes if needed.

We thought there was a possibility we could run into issues like this, so we preemptively locked Grandmaster and Challenger for the first few weeks of the season to ensure we could make fixes and respond to player feedback.

##Issue: Some players may not receive properly diminished LP gains when they swap positions. The issue above should’ve been mitigated by another detection system which determines when you swap positions and adjusts your LP accordingly. When you swap into a slightly easier game before link tightening has kicked in, you should get significantly less LP and have larger LP losses. While the actual position detection is working, it isn’t being taken into account in some cases when determining LP gains for the match.

Conclusion: Patching the previous bug should prevent the vast majority of cases where this logic is necessary, but we still believe adjusting LP like this is an important fallback for situations where—as we discovered today—MMR linking doesn’t work as intended.

We’re aiming to roll out a fix for this one before the weekend, within the next 24–48 hours We fixed this bug on February 1 at 9:00 PM GMT-8.

#Correctness of Match Data on Third Party Sites With the introduction of position ranks, new information is necessary for third party sites to show all the right ranks. We’ve found some issues with the data we’re providing which can lead to inaccurate match details.

##Issue: Some players are displayed as Master when they aren’t and vice versa. Due to a problem with the underlying tech we’re using to calculate and track rank information we’re sending to the Riot API, we were giving third party sites incorrect data.

Conclusion: We fixed this bug yesterday, January 30 at 5:00 PM GMT-8, so players should be able to see who’s actually Master Tier and who’s not on third party sites.

##Issue: Some matches may display the incorrect ranks for position played. With position ranks, displaying the ranks for an individual game got a little trickier. Third party sites will eventually be able to display the ranks for each player’s position played, but we don’t currently provide the right information for them to do so.

Conclusion: We’re collaborating with the Riot API team and third party sites to provide them accurate data as soon as possible. Once a fix goes out, you’ll be able to rely on the ranks shown for matches again.

We’ll update this post with an ETA after we’ve resolved the other issues.

These bugs are painful to say the least, but on behalf of the team, thank you for helping us find and fix them as quickly as possible. If you’re seeing other issues that aren’t captured here or you just have feedback about the system, let us know in the comments. Thanks for all your help, and we’ll see you on the Rift.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Maokai.png

71 Comments

rtbf360887372/1/2019, 12:33:00 AM40 votes

Your ranked matchmaking has been busted for years because you refuse to address trolling/ afks in a meaningful way other than banning people for hurting feelings. All of these changes will effectively fail at alleviating player frustration unless something is done to fight back against the actions (not words!) of people ruining games.

donger b0t2/1/2019, 10:41:40 PM26 votes

How can you have a legitimate conversation with your players about matchmaking and MMR when you keep MMR hidden? Please make player's MMR public so that we are empowered to have an actual discussion on matchmaking not based on anecdotes. The integrity of the division system will remain in tact, it will still feel good to climb divisions even if our MMR stays the same.. But we need transparency, we deserve to know where we truly fall and how we are actually being matched with others. Otherwise all of the work you are doing just feels in bad faith.

If you are proud of your work this season on the matchmaking adjustments then stand behind them and make player's MMR public so an actual discussion can take place.

Jesus is Savior2/1/2019, 1:01:27 AM17 votes

What about this issue: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/hAg2X9qZ-you-lose-full-lp-on-all-roles-when-you-dodge-ie-you-lose-more-lp-for-dodging-than-for-losing

Copy/pasted below:

You lose full LP on ALL ROLES when you dodge. ie: You lose more LP for dodging than for losing.

These scenarios will be assuming you already dodged at least once, and are receiving the -10 LP penalty (which resets to -3 LP after 16 hours of no dodging).

Scenario 1: I get my secondary or autofilled role. I either don't want to play it because it's boring, or because I suck at it, or because I have trolls in champ select, etc.... Here are my options:

A) Play out the game, risk losing, and lose 3 LP from my main role and lose 20 LP from my secondary role. I also have the chance of actually winning, and gaining 3 LP on my main role.

B) Dodge, and lose 10 LP from all roles, including my main role.

What do you think I'm going to do?

Scenario 2: I actually care about climbing on all my roles, but I get my main role 90% of the time. I dodge a lot on my main role, because my preferred champions are high pick/ban and I don't want my team to suffer through me playing a champion I'm not good at (and also trolls and stuff happens as well). I have played my main role 10 games in a row, and have dodged 5 times in that time period because of picks/bans/trolls (I have been assigned my role 15 times, dodged 5 of them, and played 10 of them out). Because I am consistently winning, I am still climbing on my main role despite the dodging. For game 11, I finally get assigned a different role. I now have 3 options:

A) Dodge, and lose 10 LP on all roles.

B) Play it out and try really hard to win.... And this role is at negative 50 LP because I dodged 5 times, so I will win and still be far into the negative.

C) This role is going to be permanently in the negative LP, why should I care about tryharding at all? Just play it out and whatever happens, happens.

So.... Good job on your new ranked system I guess? This encourages intentional griefing (not caring/giving up) as well as unintentional griefing (people who would normally dodge and eat the LP loss.... Are not encouraged to change their behavior and just play it out even when it is highly likely they won't win). You shouldn't lose LP on unassigned roles when you dodge. It's as simply as that. And the system is going to be garbage until this is fixed lol.

Bonus points: you can't even check your LP on your secondary roles until after a game, because your profile only shows your main role's LP. So a lot of people aren't going to notice for a couple weeks, but then when they do, they're going to troll HARD.

https://i.imgur.com/iAtH0Yy.png[]

EDIT:

It has been brought to my attention that the "ranked" tab in your profile now shows your roles and LP instead of simply showing you your position on some obscure ladder like it used to. So you can actually test this easily yourself by dodging once and checking your profile (just note that if you normally don't dodge, you will lose 3 LP from all roles instead of 10).

CIoudCarry2/1/2019, 2:44:38 AM7 votes

Yeah, see if you can fix this one too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/alplk6/psa_if_you_realize_the_game_is_not_winnable_early/

Jesus is Savior2/1/2019, 11:16:29 AM6 votes

So what exactly happens when you trade roles? I can think of 2 use-cases where trading roles being a negative thing (increasing negative splashing and/or disabling positional matchmaking) doesn't make sense.

  1. You are mid and you lane swap and go top because of the matchup. Not because you actually care which lane you're sitting in. (This can happen quite often)

  2. You get bullied out of your role by a troll once the game starts and go to a lane you weren't assigned because a troll stole your position. (This just happened to me)

Skogrin2/2/2019, 5:59:33 PM6 votes

please dont bring position ranks to euw

depreciation2/2/2019, 7:42:34 AM5 votes

PLEASE REVERT RANKED CHANGES. I'm sorry, it feels like change for the sake of change. I get trolls every game in which they are autofilled because they do not care about losing 3 lp in their main!

exxpose2/7/2019, 1:12:17 AM4 votes

Please revert the ranking system back to the old system.

The new system is awful.

ChrisBrownze2/3/2019, 1:58:22 AM3 votes

Matchmaking system is complete garbage placing people on loss streaks on a team against people on winstreaks. Completely useless system. Might as well remove mmr altogether and every game no matter what is +-20lp and matchmaking just tries to grab people close to your rank for evenish game. MMR is complete trash.

Gold4Hokage2/1/2019, 6:03:07 PM3 votes

Have you considered if we need 8 games per role for placements?

It extends the chaos of placements much longer than before. 5 (or less) would feel much less of a grind and allow players to reach their appropriate rank quicker.

Ałice2/2/2019, 3:00:09 AM3 votes

Can you please just remove duo from soloq or just limit it for botlane? They always just troll, int or disconnect together; flame, grief and speak in non-English language.

Sometimes they treat their teammates as bots and only help each other.

Velasan2/1/2019, 2:23:12 AM2 votes

After playing on the new ranked for a couple days now...

I like the new steady rewards over the course of the split (although I'm not sure why we have splits yet, but I don't mind them) I like the new armors and banners I like that we still get a free win if we don't get past the promotion series the first time

However, I will add that I don't really understand what position ranked is solving. Up to three placement series (I still only have 1 game in support) and multiple promos over two different roles doesn't make me feel better about ranked. So, the new system doesn't bother me, but I don't understand what improvement is being made by having role positions either. Feels pretty grindy, but we'll see how the season plays out.

Also, just want to add the MMR on placements still seems off. I've been placed in bronze in all 3 placements this season, and have been placed in bronze once in the past. I mention this because I've also achieved gold 4 times and got to plat promos at least once in the past. Seems a little strange that I've consistently proved I can climb farther than that (multiple times no less and in different ques as well), but I'm still getting placed that low. I'll just land up climbing out of it by the end of the season, but that says to me that something in the background is still not working quite right. Also adds to the grind since now I have to do promos to silver, then work back up through silver to gold again, and I don't have infinite time to play (and even when I do I probably shouldn't spend that much time on League).

Onxx2/8/2019, 2:17:28 AM2 votes

Possible partial solution: give the option to change which role you’re queued up for during champ select so those who legitimately change their minds based on comps can be honest in their swap.. then continue with lp changes and punish those who swap after the game starts just because they’re losing

OnlyOneLift2/17/2019, 9:30:35 AM1 votes

A player has to be level 30 and own a certain amount of champs to play ranked. They should also have to have a certain amount of mastery or xp on a champ to play them in ranked. In my recent ranked games I've had a first time Cass mid, a first time Sylas, a Ziggs support, and plenty more near 0 xp team mates that feed like crazy. It's not fair to be playing and putting your best foot forward while someone else is ruining your games by having no idea what their micro is, much less macro. Also frustrated that after my first month playing last year I was placed silver, no ranked partner. This year I'm struggling to get to silver and I've improved tremendously in every aspect of the game.

Zaot2/21/2019, 10:18:07 PM1 votes

When u play kleptofang meta in bot the system exchange the adc/supp role

[screenshots]

here are the match history so u can see ezreal was the adc not the supp

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2981746169/200291553?tab=overview

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2981883812/200291553?tab=overview

IWillYeet2/28/2019, 11:44:35 PM1 votes

Whenever people get a secondary role or autofilled they just feed or don't care if they win. Did riot say there was going to be an incentive to play better when on secondary or autofilled? I still don't see it.

This ranked system should be reverted, the community has spoken volumes, and there have been many articles showing that even pro players don't like the changes.

It is yet another attempt by Riot to stay hip and cool, but in the end they just keep braking more things instead of actually taking time to fix their problems.

You want transparency like how is MMR calculated and how does your matchmaking actually work, never gonna happen. The state of the game is terrible. I'll admit I though your idea was good, but not planned out very well. Probably not even tested very well. Almost two months in and you're still trying to safe face by not reverting the change and covering them up with tape.

"Lets just cover this up with more tape and no one will notice". "Just ignore them they don't know what they want, only we know what they want". - That's how Riot looks to the public. You say you listen, but you really don't.

ƒiørâné3/7/2019, 10:38:11 AM1 votes

If placement ranks cause so much controversy between League players, why bother keeping it? I've never seen the old rank system be such a hassle among the player-base. Imo it's simply better to keep most of the community happy than a big change, because I feel as though we're just striving to reinforce a bad decision (patch 5.22 worlds is a nice example)

Let me know what you think!

SkillAuraFTW2/1/2019, 10:49:53 PM1 votes

So when is this new feature going to be added to other regions?

Boreas IX2/2/2019, 9:58:15 PM1 votes

I've played and won my first three placement games of ranked as the same role. I was Gold III at 46 LP at the end of my second game, upon finishing my third game it said I gained 40 LP, but I was still Gold III at 46 LP. I almost wish I was getting diminished LP gain/loss instead of absolutely nothing.

Polinejk2/4/2019, 5:13:22 PM1 votes

Do the clash update already!

Mindgame082/5/2019, 1:52:49 PM1 votes

Riot please just listen to the opinions of the players (you could even have a poll located in the client for level 30+) and then take action on the feedback. These ranked changes in principal 'should' work but the reality is they aren't. I think the vast majority of players would prefer to revert to the previous system, have a hard MMR reset and play from scratch with it now incorporating iron and grand master. Instead of separate positional ranks why not just have role specific boarders, badges or armour?

Poli Desu2/5/2019, 11:48:53 PM1 votes

Riot SapMagic Can you explane to me? Why i was get in placement max 30 lp? Okey maybe this ruin my start position after 8 win 2 lose. But after that its impossible play bcs i gain 17 lp per win and lose 20 lp. So can ypu explain me where is problem? In both mode Solo/Flex is same result.

Dr Rick Report2/6/2019, 5:26:37 PM1 votes

Thank you for fixing the issues with the ranked system! It's nice to see it slowly but surely moving to a right path.

So... inting report system when? Actual AFK detection system when?

rtbf2216514122/7/2019, 6:58:16 PM1 votes

I don't understand. Why are you asking for input on something that is hidden from us? I don't want to assume, but the best reason I can come up with for you guys hiding MMR from the player base is that it's formula is terrible and you guys are too lazy to progress a system that needs working on. There is no room for conversation on the topic of ranked when MMR is hidden. You guys shut down any conversation when you suggest on your support site that we belong with the team we get matched with and do not get anyone who shouldn't be with our MMR. However, the difference between someone who is 0/22/1, 0/1/18, 2/4/27, and 17/4/10... The outlier is clearly the 0/22/1. Your matchmaking has problems. It's time to own up to it. I've already quit your game because of how garbage the system is. Just because you still have a high player base doesn't mean you can't lose it. It's time to swallow your pride and fix it. The fact you ignored the top comment is baffling.

rtbf2216514122/7/2019, 7:06:03 PM1 votes

Let the player base know when you are actually willing to discuss matchmaking then maybe some people will take you seriously. I am starting to see bots as better players than some people I am matched with. THAT IS BAD.

Zirkin2/13/2019, 12:16:28 AM1 votes

EUNE for life !!! xD

Purebliss2/13/2019, 12:11:09 PM1 votes

Hello,

What about Honor level 2 and above rewards that were said to be given in 11th of February?

I got level 2 in preseason but still didnt get my rewards.

Dr Light2/14/2019, 8:08:09 AM1 votes

I hate the new ranked system. There are to many games where I go in and someone says, "I don't care about my support rank and they lock in something like ezreal support and just feed." Instances like this just show what a bad idea it was to have this ranking system.

Zerkinmelee2/17/2019, 1:43:49 AM1 votes

Hi Riot! Hello everyone honestly.

I would like to share my idea of a replacement to our solo que strategy of "dodging". Ill keep it short and simple, because at face value it seems to be. I cant grasp the workload required to make it happen but, why not.

Give us a vote style system to please remake champ select, based off honor.