Gameplay+ is already dead

Get Ogre Here·Sep 26, 2018·15 votes·8,901 views

Ripperino ;-;

26 Comments

DisembarkSep 26, 201816 votes

Cause it’s not really “points of discussion” that get approved there. It’s jusr whatever the mods deam “worthy”.

Even though I made a thread that was pretty much neutral and imo was kind of just discussing some points. Didn’t get accepted because ???.

That section is a joke.

ModPeriscopeSep 27, 20184 votes

I took a look at your thread. I think I'll agree with the other team member that rejected your thread. I think there should be some good back and forth on a topic. Your discussion brings up stats and how they aren't the sole factor to winning games. You bring up farming vs ignoring other parts of an adc's job, such as positioning. I feel you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who'd disagree with you.

Because that thread seems to breed one-sided agreement, I think I'd also reject it. That being said, did you try posting it in gameplay?

ShobekSep 27, 201812 votes

Propaganda+

ModPeriscopeSep 27, 20187 votes

I'll admit I don't frequent that board or the gameplay board as much as I'd like (little to none). I do have some interesting ideas for it in the near future, though.

What's there/not there that you aren't enthusiastic about?

Get Ogre HereSep 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'll admit I don't frequent that board or the gameplay board as much as I'd like (little to none). I do have some interesting ideas for it in the near future, though.

What's there/not there that you aren't enthusiastic about?

More just that almost no threads are being put there anymore, idk if the mods are too strict or if not enough people care, but it shouldn't be too hard to fix imo.

ModPeriscopeSep 27, 20181 votes

Gadzooks! 7 days since the last post? Let me work my passive-aggressive magic to get things going.

Get Ogre HereSep 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Gadzooks! 7 days since the last post? Let me work my passive-aggressive magic to get things going.

Good luck! xD

EleshakaiSep 27, 20183 votes

It was never meant to be a super active board. If you force people to think about what they type, they'll type less.

DrCyanideSep 27, 20184 votes

My problem with Gameplay+ can be summed up in 3 words: It Feels Useless.

Most of the threads come across as "Here's an idea that's completely out of our hands as players to implement. It sure would be nice if Riot would take these steps to implement it!" What's the point of "discussions" like that? It doesn't matter how flushed out the idea is, your discussion isn't going to make it happen. Throw it in with Champion Concepts and hide them in some corner to rot.

If Gameplay+ is going to be relevant it has to deal with things players can do, not what Riot might someday maybe privately try out for kicks and giggles.

EleshakaiSep 27, 20181 votes

Honestly, that's the entire forum: Useless. But that's not a problem.

That board, like every other board, is intended for discussion of the game. That just happens to be intended for in-depth discussion of the game rather than casual discussion.

DrCyanideSep 27, 20181 votes

If the forums are useless, why are any of us here?

We're here to share experiences, to vent, to laugh, to learn, to discuss, and because we enjoy each others company (no matter how much we disagree with each other on particular subjects).

Gameplay+ isn't to vent Gameplay+ isn't to laugh Gameplay+ isn't to share experiences (although it can come up as part of proving a point)

So we can conclude Gameplay+ must exist to learn and to discuss. It's description lines up with that idea nicely:

Here you’ll find in-depth and advanced discussions related to playing League of Legends.

Whether you've written an essay on why you believe something is meta, or whether you have the math to support why you believe a champion is busted, this is the place for you. This is not, however, a board for gameplay bugs; that'd be the Report a Bug sub-board.

Now, how does presenting an idea for a system that Riot should invent/change help you learn? You could learn a little bit from it, if the post explains really well why they think their system would fix X problems with the game. But then what's the discussion? You either agree with what they said, or you disagree on a core premise, but then that's it. Neither of you can reasonably predict what would actually happen if such a system went live in League because you don't have the means of testing it. The conversation can't progress because you reach a point where there's nothing left to discuss.

Worded another way, many of these posts look like they're suggesting Bug Fixes for League. Sure, what they're suggesting change might not be a "bug", but it is about as interactive.

Conversely, what happens if a Gameplay+ thread doesn't try to suggest a fix for League? What if it tries to suggest a fix for Players, or expand Player's understanding? The entire discussion becomes different. Suddenly past examples are available to draw upon, as are new games trying out suggestions presented. And because it's no longer just theoretical, the practical experiences of multiple people can differ slightly, driving discussion and learning.

Change the tone of Gameplay+, change what kinds of posts get approved, and there will be discussions.

ModThe DjinnSep 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}Now, how does presenting an idea for a system that Riot should invent/change help you learn?

Because you can discuss how the greater game interacts with individual decisions, and learn a bit about game design in the process. The trick is approaching things with an open mind and being willing to accept an analysis of flaws in your idea, and use that knowledge to either improve your idea and your understanding or move on to the next -- and better -- idea.

For example -- I see a LOT of ideas that, while they sound good, have potentially catastrophic ripple effects for game balance, but people haven't thought that deep into what the likely outcome would be, because they saw a problem and devised a fix for that problem without remembering the broader context and implications it can create.

Conversely, what happens if a Gameplay+ thread doesn't try to suggest a fix for League? What if it tries to suggest a fix for Players, or expand Player's understanding? The entire discussion becomes different. Suddenly past examples are available to draw upon, as are new games trying out suggestions presented. And because it's no longer just theoretical, the practical experiences of multiple people can differ slightly, driving discussion and learning.

We don't see as many of these, but I'd love to have some good ones to approve.

DrCyanideSep 27, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=u5qfjU2Q,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-27T11:32:54.863+0000)

Because you can discuss how the greater game interacts with individual decisions, and learn a bit about game design in the process. The trick is approaching things with an open mind and being willing to accept an analysis of flaws in your idea, and use that knowledge to either improve your idea and your understanding or move on to the next -- and better -- idea.

For example -- I see a LOT of ideas that, while they sound good, have potentially catastrophic ripple effects for game balance, but people haven't thought that deep into what the likely outcome would be, because they saw a problem and devised a fix for that problem without remembering the broader context and implications it can create.

Sounds like those Gameplay+ posts exist for the benefit of the poster, not so much for the readers.

It's the same problem I have with Champion Concepts - you read something that won't ever be in the game, give feedback to the poster so they can improve this thing that wont ever be in the game, and then there's no payoff as the reader. Both are really only beneficial if you're making your own separate video game, which is fine, but if that's what you're going for why not just create a different Board about video game design ideas in general? Why shoehorn the discussion to be around League when in reality those discussions are best not being about League?

ModThe DjinnSep 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}Sounds like those Gameplay+ posts exist for the benefit of the poster, not so much for the readers.

A reader can learn just as much about design and system interactions as the poster.

Why shoehorn the discussion to be around League when in reality those discussions are best not being about League?

Mainly because the community here WANTS to discuss League, and suggesting fixes seems to be more popular than just discussing problems. People LIKE to suggest things, and letting them do so seems important.

InTheorySep 27, 20181 votes

I see that a bunch of new threads were enabled for gameplay plus thanks to this thread. I'd like to point out that'd be easier to track things if you'd limit the amount of threads that pop up per day because when you have like 4 or more you can't focus on one topic too much unless you really spend hours on boards just for this stuff alone.

I'd like to propose some sort of schedule (if Wuks can do such a thing) where Mods can just add accepted submission to and that will automatically enable them on a daily bases.

This way we don't end up having weeks between single posts but then beeing flooded with just a bunch at the same time. Hope that feedback is helpfull.

Moody PSep 27, 20181 votes

why don't you just hold Gameplay to a higher standard so we can be free of the riff raff that are just here to bitch about what they just lost a game to 5 minutes before

ModKnightsKemplarSep 27, 20183 votes

Admittedly has been a bit slow this week, but I just spent some time on it and approved several.

Sorry for the delay, and I hope you can find something to discuss in the new threads!

Get Ogre HereSep 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Admittedly has been a bit slow this week, but I just spent some time on it and approved several.

Sorry for the delay, and I hope you can find something to discuss in the new threads!

Okay, cool! Hope you get more posts on there! :D

ChermorgSep 27, 20181 votes

An idea maybe to have a specific "target" of approvals per week, and approve them all on a certain day? Maybe Saturday morning given its the beginning of the weekend? Or Friday or monday morning cause Rioters are generally on the boards more on Fridays or Mondays in my experience?

ModKnightsKemplarSep 27, 20181 votes

I'll bring that up at the next opportune time as an idea to float. That might make it easier to manage and make it more predictable for the folks waiting to see new posts.

Didn't notice that trend with Rioters :) thanks for pointing that out.

Hexs FortuneOct 1, 20182 votes

I view gameplay+ as being a board that exists for anyone who wants to have an in-depth discussion beyond the typical gameplay boards. I feel it doesn't have to be as popular as the other boards. I check in every now and then to see if there are any debates going on that pique my interest.

DrCyanideSep 27, 20181 votes

I don't know about anyone else, but I have my Boards home sorting on Recent. If wasn't recently posted and it's not being discussed, I don't see it. I saw a somewhat interesting Gameplay+ post today, but it was already 16 days old. That's old enough that it feels borderline necro to try and add to the discussion, particularly compared to other sections.

The newest post is 7 days old with no replies (it says 1 reply, but that's a glitch). Gameplay+ is just another bin for good ideas to die in. Much like Champion Concepts, it exists solely for the benefit of the one writing the post, not for the community at large.