Is it bad for a champion to be good at something they were not designed for?

Kikirino·7/13/2014, 6:08:33 PM·4 votes·1,011 views

I have heard/read that Riot often will nerf a champion if they are good at something they were not meant to do. An example I was given was Jungle Alistar. Riot did not like Alistar in the jungle so they nerfed him so that he can only support. (this is what I was told. Not sure if it is accurate)

So... is this true? If so, what is wrong with champions being good at something they were not intended to be good at? Are champions meant for one role and expected to stay there and if they don't they will be nerfed until they can only be that specific role? I mean, if Ashe mid becomes a thing will she be nerfed until she is back to only being an adc? What if a stray Rammus found a cozy home at Top lane? What if Phreak picked his nose and the booger got stuck at bottom lane support? Would this be bad?

11 Comments

Thanotos Omega7/13/2014, 8:28:03 PM2 votes

They mostly Nerf ones who become oppressive in other lanes, See Jungle Alistar who basically locked the solo lanes under turret the whole game,

Frostbutt Irelia7/13/2014, 7:43:03 PM2 votes

Only applies to people they want as supports. Mids can go top, tops can go jungle, junglers can go top, ADCs can go mid, mids can go jungler, tops can go support, mids can go support, junglers can go support.

BUT GOD FORBID IF A SUPPORT LEAVES BOT LANE.

And there is a reason for this, supports tend to have unbelievably annoying kits. Just look at Lulu.

Dicerson7/13/2014, 8:44:01 PM1 votes

As the others have said, champs were only nerfed if they were RIDICULOUSLY good at something, regardless of whether or not it was intentional. Riot just tends to overreact the first time around, then fixes and makes it better the second or third.

This is a small problem in the game compared to so many other, far more frustrating ones. One problem with this game that pisses me off more than anything are smurfs.

If you are a high-skill player, and you use a smurf account to "pubstomp" in ranked, or to boost a friend, or otherwise fuck with the other people trying to honestly climb the ranks, then you are an asshole that puts satan to shame, and should have your house burned down with your family inside, while you are forced to watch, just out of reach of seeing the, watching as they turn to ash and hearing their screams for help you cannot give because you're an asshole. If you use a smurf, i hope you suffer the worst torture imaginable so long as existence itself exists.

Pryotra7/14/2014, 2:46:41 AM1 votes

If you see this, It's likely because supports are moving out of their designated lane. Sometimes it legit is bad, like Ali Jungle being absolute BULL to fight. See what I did there?

Other times, it does SEEM like some prejudice or due to 1 particular part of the kit that is really too good and holding the champ back.

For an example of the Former, I don't really see a problem with Soraka in mid or top, believe it or not. But she auto zones with q! So don't dive her? Use Long range? Heaven knows there is enough in mid lane, and top lane has SOME champs that can poke well. BUT THEM HEALS! Again, So? She wouldn't be the first person in those lanes with a heal. Nidalee and Kayle are two prime examples, but then there is also champs like trynd, mundo, and GP that go against her VERY well. BUT SHE STALLS LANE! And Nasus, Singed, Warwick, Swain, and Cho'gath don't do the same? Honestly, she seems like an unorthadox choice for those lanes, but the trade makes sense. Put her mid to hold the lane like a bookmark, come back later when she gets MEGA heals due to all that gold. How is that different than, say, Nasus being a bookmark, destroying entire teams? Oh yeah, she is healing, so F*ck her.

An example of the latter would be Lulu. As a support, there isn't alot of issue when she throws pix on a minion for long range poke. Give her AP, however, and that long range poke is just TOO good. Considering how fast pix gets on that minion, if you are nearby it's basically instant long range damage. They SHOULD give pix a travel time, with a yasuo wall just stopping it there, and suddenly COUNTERPLAY! But until that change, she can't be buffed otherwise she breaks the other lanes.

Hyrum Graff7/14/2014, 6:17:17 PM1 votes

It doesn't have to do with champs going to other roles. It has to do with champs being toxic in other roles.

I'll take your example of alistar. As early as level 3, you can have your top or mid laner push to tower. Now alistar walks into the enemy jungle and comes up behind the enemy mid. He walks up to them, pulverizes and headbutts them out from under the tower for a guaranteed first blood, then heals and walks away, because he's tanky enough to take 2 or 3 tower hits at lvl 3.

Getting ganked when you were literally hugging your tower, was a bad experience for everybody. That's why alistar got nerfed out of the jungle.

Dragon Slút Fae7/14/2014, 8:06:48 PM1 votes

well actually, Ashe mid used to be a common thing before all the jump-ons Rammus top would be great as a counter pick, get thornmail and ravenous hydra win games

SincerelyShyvana7/14/2014, 9:06:17 PM1 votes

I would say yes, but Morgana remains safe from nerfs

Skellaflex7/14/2014, 10:09:08 PM1 votes

Many champions are said to fit one role, but can be wildly powerful in other places. Lulu makes a great mage, lissandra is intended for support, but is one of the most useful and powerful mages that I play as a mid laner. If a champion becomes powerful outside of their lane, and no longer fits the design they originally were built for, then yes, i would agree with changing them to fit their role. Sometimes versatility is not right for a champion, and can make them an irritation, damaging the rest of the game. There are champions who, for whatever reason, have managed to escape being changed to suit their purpose. Many champions could be changed to fit their original roles, but if no harm is really being done, why the change? They really need to nerf several of the champions (Jax, Tryn late game, Etc.) to prevent a constant stream of damaged games. Vayne is interesting in ways of change, as she was released with the intent to be a mid ADC, but didn't fill her role, and has simply moved bot. Not all change is bad, but it isn't all good. (Sorry, Kha'Zix)

Cyrus Blackmoon7/15/2014, 1:42:38 AM1 votes

When they do things better than champs that have that as their intended role, yes, it is bad. It's not that champs are supposed to be able to do one thing, but doing that thing too well.

Aliceandria7/13/2014, 8:25:30 PM1 votes

It has less to do with a champion being unintentionally good at something. And more to do with the champion being unintentionally the BEST at something.

Season 2 Alister jungle was a complete monster. His clears were good and his ganks were the best. This holds true with many champions. Mostly supports going mid. Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Lulu AGAIN. etc.