I was playing Morgana just now and there was a Trundle player on the enemy team.
Several times during the game I was knocked airborne/briefly stunned/displaced by Pillar despite having Black Shield on me. This is a form of disable/displace that should not bypass Black Shield ... it is a clear bug and not intended to function in this manner.
Edit: Video evidence https://youtu.be/5wIof02iGTU Thank you to the guy 'Lelefsky' for the video.
Zaghyr9 votesI have a feeling that this is turning into a typical fox news vs guest debate.
Dominick Destine1 votesI have a feeling that this is turning into a typical fox news vs guest debate.
It's actually a lot more like women and feminists vs. logical man.
It's actually kind of scary how many parallels there are but let's leave it at that say once again; Morgana's black shield is intended to protect her from disables. This disable is bypassing black shield and therefore, this is a glitch/bug.
It's not complicated.
Zaghyr2 votes[deleted]
Dominick Destine1 votesWell that's lovely. Maybe you should take a step away from your keyboard and calm down before posting more. Just a suggestion.
We've already destroyed your argument
Actually no, you've thrown tantrums after having your fallacious arguments continually refuted... but you are free to pretend otherwise.
The argument is VERY simple, but here it goes again; ** Black Shield** is designed from the ground up to protect Morgana from disables, ALL disables. Trundle's Pillar at this time, will knock-airborne/displace/stun Morgana even if she is under the effects of Black Shield. This is a violation of the fundamental principle of the game's design. Therefore, this is a glitch/bug that must be fixed. Pillar should obstruct Morgana, sure, but it MUST. NOT. DISABLE her.
The argument from you and others like you is that "The method by which the disable is delivered is what matters" which I am continually refuting by saying "The method is irrelevant, the disable should not occur" over and over.
Zaghyr13 votesI will give our argument one more time.
You are not refuting our argument, you are denying it because you are ignoring how the game works and only using an argument that come down to "the tooltip says so", while we say, "the game's principle mechanics say so."
Dominick Destine1 votesYou are not refuting our argument
Once again, let me reiterate; The method by which the disable is delivered is irrelevant. You are arguing METHOD and therefore your argument is irrelevant... Trundle's Pillar absolutely should obstruct Morgana but it should NOT disable/stun/displace/knock her airborne.
the game's ... mechanics
This is where you and the others like you are failing to understand; Yes, the game mechanics are functioning in that manner, what I am telling you is the way they are functioning is Wrong .
Zaghyr5 votesSigh.....the game is wrong? Thats a slap to riot's face. And again you are dismissing the logical argument right in front of you and calling it irrelevant. Why is it irrelevnt?
HexaDecimel3 votesDon't bother arguing with idiots, they will drag you down to their level of lunacy and beat you with experience.
Zaghyr2 votesThis idiot will try, but not with experience, he has no idea how to debate.
HexaDecimel2 votesOh I wasn't suggesting that he had any clue of how to properly debate, but he probably does have more experience at being an idiot XD
Zaghyr2 votesAgreed!
Cruk9 votesBlack shield is effected by terrain, for example morgana cant walk through jarvan 4's walls, so if a pillar of ice is put directly under morgana it will force her out of the pillar. terrain > black shield. It isnt a bug, and whine about it all you want but they wont address/fix it because it isnt an issue. have a great day
Dominick Destine1 votesBlack shield is effected by terrain, for example morgana cant walk through jarvan 4's walls
A very flimsy strawman argument.
Perhaps you should read what has been written many times because what you are arguing against is not what I presented. The argument is very straightforward; Disables should not bypass Black Shield.
Zaghyr6 votesI love how often you retort with "literally" and "strawman argument"
Cruk5 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=yW5KVfEZ,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-01-19T20:37:21.371+0000)
A very flimsy strawman argument.
Perhaps you should read what has been written many times because what you are arguing against is not what I presented. The argument is very straightforward; Disables should not bypass Black Shield.
Disables DONT effect blackshield... UNLESS they are terrain. Terrain > Blackshield
Dominick Destine1 votesDisables DONT effect blackshield... UNLESS
Unless nothing. The method by which a disable bypasses Black Shield is irrelevant.
Disables should not bypass Black Shield.
Cruk4 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=yW5KVfEZ,comment-id=0008000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-19T21:17:20.265+0000)
Unless nothing. The method by which a disable bypasses Black Shield is irrelevant.
Disables should not bypass Black Shield.
its not irrelevant because thats the way it works, hopefully you learn how to deal with it, have a great day
Girard8 votes[deleted]
Dominick Destine1 votesIt's not a bug. I see what you're writing to the EndlessSorcerer, and I see how you just say "Irrelevant." It's not irrelevant, it's fact.
Yes, it is a fact that the game is bugged/glitched. What I am saying is; The way it is right now , is Wrong. There is no disable that should bypass Black Shield. It's a bug/glitch.
It is irrelevant what the source of the disable is. No disable should bypass Black Shield regardless of the method by which it is executed. Morgana should never be knocked airborne/displaced by Pillar while she's under Black Shield.
It's not irrelevant
Yes , it is irrelevant. The method by which the disable is delivered is NOT relevant. Quick rundown;
Therefore Pillar is disabling/displacing Morgana through Black Shield which is not intended.
It's not complicated.
Zaghyr6 votesSo, assuming that his Pillar is treated as turrain, Morgana, even with her Black Shield, should be displaced. Trundle's Pillar is manifested as solid terrain, and Morgana cannot go through terrain, I don't see how this is a bug.
Dominick Destine1 votesSo, assuming that his Pillar is treated as turrain, Morgana, even with her Black Shield, should be displaced.
Nope. Precisely because she has Black Shield it should not displace her.
I'm not sure what part of this is confusing to others.... disables should not bypass black shield. Pillar is displacing/knocking Morgana airborne/disabling her, this is a glitch/bug. It should not occur.
Trundle's Pillar is manifested as solid
Irrelevant. The method by which the disable is delivered is 100% meaningless. Pillar should obstruct Morgana sure, but it should NOT disable or displace her.
Here is level of argument being presented ; (Guy at police station) "So this guy stole my car" "Okay, but he was wearing a blue shirt" "Uhh... yeah, I guess so, but he stole my car and there is evidence of this" "Of course but , he was wearing a blue shirt" "I understand that but it is irrelevant, he stole my car" "Yes but you have to remember he was wearing a blue shirt" "Yes I am aware of the color of the shirt, but the crime was still committed and the color of the shirt has absolutely no relevance to what I am telling you." "Are you colorblind? LOOK AT THE COLOR OF THE SHIRT, IT'S BLUE" "/facepalm"
Disables should not bypass Black Shield. It doesn't matter what method is being used.
Zaghyr4 votesLet's just think of a scenario here. Say that a wall in the game was removed. If Morgana walked into area the wall used to be in, and the wall suddenly reappeared, would the wall not push her away?? Can you walk through Anivia's wall? J4's ult? It is solid terrain, you cannot walk through solid terrain, I don't care what the fucking tooltip says, YOU CANNOT WALK THROUGH TERRAIN.
Dominick Destine1 votesI know you think the color of the shirt matters, it does not. (Following the earlier analogy)
No disable or displacement should bypass Black Shield under any circumstances. This is not complicated, we are looking at blatant glitch/bug.
Zaghyr4 votesActive: Morgana shields the target friendly champion or herself for up to 5 seconds, absorbing magic damage and rendering her target immune to all crowd control while the shield holds.
Please explain to my uneducated ears how Trundle's pillar, is not terrain. Please use logic, and not the same tooltip worshipping bullshit, and if you use an analogy, use one that works, the blue shirt one was retarded.
Dominick Destine1 votesActive: Morgana shields the target friendly champion or herself for up to 5 seconds, absorbing magic damage and rendering her target immune to all crowd control while the shield holds.
Exactly.
The rest of your argument is irrelevant. To reiterate yet again; The method by which the disable occurs does not matter. No disable should bypass Black Shield. Your continued "Blue shirt" argument is not relevant , at all.
I have tried to avoid letting your type derail but let's feed you for a bit;
Please explain to my uneducated ears how Trundle's pillar, is not terrain
Show me a point where I have stated anything remotely resembling that or even brought up an argument to that extent. I defy you to show me... you cannot because I never did. That is a strawman argument, so nicely done.
Zaghyr4 votesI have tried to avoid letting your type derail but let's feed you for a bit;
And here comes the debate class superiority complex to the rescue. We could have hundreds of players argue you and you would still dismiss their arguments and insist you are right.
Dominick Destine1 votesAnd here comes the debate class superiority complex to the rescue. We could have hundreds of players argue you and you would still dismiss their arguments and insist you are right.
Probably because they'd be blatantly wrong if they argued that disables should bypass Black Shield.
It's not complicated, you could have a million people arguing that and they'd still be wrong. Not sure why you thought the number of people that were wrong would eventually make them right.
Kryonik4 votesIt's not complicated, you could have a million people arguing that and they'd still be wrong. Not sure why you thought the number of people that were wrong would eventually make them right.
It's not that we outnumber you, it's that you provide absolutely no support than what is already known and don't think any deeper about what you are saying. Again, instead of dismissing everyone as wrong, actually THINK about what the ability is meant, and not meant, to block.
Dominick Destine1 votesit's that you provide absolutely no support
You mean aside from having the fundamental principle of the game on my side? I'm not sure what other support I would need....
Morgana's Black Shield is intended/coded to protect her from disables. This has been the case for 6 years. This is not functioning in a certain instance, which is a glitch/bug.
Riot themselves coded the skill in the way I am describing. Riot themselves created the concept in the way I am using it. Your argument is flimsy.
Zaghyr4 votesYou have the principle's of the game on your side? Ya, I don't think so. You have a tooltip on your side, not logic, and certainly not the game's mechanics.
Kouga8 votesYou know how if you take a Champion with a blink, say like Ezreal's (E) Arcane Shift, and you try to blink over a wall - you can actually click inside the terrain itself, but the game will say, "The Champion cannot exist within this physical space. So I will move you to a nearby 'open' location where you can exist." and it'll either "push" Ezreal on the outside of the wall and he'll get a little extra distance beyond the ability's normal range, or it'll fail and he'll end up on the same side of the wall?
Have you seen that happen? It can happen with flash, blink abilities, etc.
Basically that's what is happening. Morgana is trying to occupy the same space as the terrain so the game moves her. Is it a loophole around her Shield? Sure. Is it a bug? No. It is working at the game is intended to do.
Another way of thinking about it - if that didn't happen, if Morgana could just walk through Trundle's pillar without being obstructed in any way, but then the shield expired while inside the pillar, it could result in her being physically stuck in the space, which is why blinks and jumps work the way I described above.
/thread
Dominick Destine1 votesI was looking for an argument in your post but was unable to find one.... you seemed to go on a random tangent.
Disables should not bypass Black Shield, it's that simple.
Zaghyr7 votesI can see the argument plain as day.
Kryonik7 votesSo, since you love saying that Trundle's pillar being terrain is irrelevant, how about you actually explain why it is irrelevant, WITH FACTS, instead of just repeating the same thing over again without any support.
Dominick Destine1 votesexplain why it is irrelevant
As I have said, numerous times over and over again to you and others like you and I will say once again; The method by which the disable is being achieved is not relevant. Disables should not bypass Black Shield. That is why it is irrelevant.
It's really not that complicated.
Kryonik6 votesThe method by which the disable is being achieved is not relevant. Disables should not bypass Black Shield. That is why it is irrelevant.
So, basically, just because YOU SAY that it is irrelevant, it is irrelevant. Your own opinion is what's irrelevant if you can't back it up.
1374347 votesSince we are all wrong, please explain in detail **how **it should work. If you are Morgana with a black shield and a Trundle places a pillar directly under your feet, what should happen?
Dominick Destine1 votesSince we are all wrong, please explain in detail how it should work.
To reiterate yet again; The disable should not affect Morgana when she is under Black Shield, that's how it should work.
1374347 votesThat doesn't explain what you think should happen. So you think there should just be a pillar there occupying the same space as the Morgana model?
UP2002 votesThen where should she end up? Is she allowed to walk through walls?
Dominick Destine1 votesThe disable should not bypass Black Shield, it's that simple.
It should obstruct Morgana, not disable her.
UP2003 votesSo what should it do when placed directly under her?
Immovable object meet unstoppable force.
Dominick Destine1 votesPillar should obstruct Morgana, it should not disable her.
UP2002 votesPillar should obstruct Morgana, it should not disable her.
Yes you've said that, so the choices are 1) she gets to move freely through it because she can't be disabled by it, giving her the ability to move through terrain with black shield or 2) she gets displaced by it. That interaction is working as intended.
Dominick Destine1 votesshe gets to move freely through it because she can't be disabled by it giving her the ability to move through terrain with black shield or she gets displaced by it.
Well that's a nice false dichotomy / strawman argument you've got there, how about instead we got for option 3 and , stay with me here; It DOESN'T violate the fundamental principles of the game by disabling through Black Shield and instead only obstructs Morgana rather than disabling her (?)
Crazy idea I know... given that they've already applied it to other obstruction abilities like Anivia's Wall and Azir's ultimate, neither of which disable Morgana through Black Shield by the way... you'd think false dichotomies like yours would not come up.
UP2003 voteswhat do you mean by obstruct? if it is placed under her she either has to be moved, or is allowed to exist within it. This isn't a false dichotomy, she either is allowed to be inside the pillar or she isn't. Either A or not A, there is no third option. If she is not allowed to be displaced by the pillar then she must be able to move through the pillar.
Also Azir ult will displace Morg if she is standing exactly on the point where the wall stops moving, and anivia wall will do the same thing as trundle pillar. J4's ult works the same way, if J4's ult wall comes up right under morg she will be moved. Morg is not allowed to exist within terrain.
AMYS GRAVE3 voteshe's just wrong. drop it.
I know, I know, someone was wrong on the internet....
Kryonik7 votesAgain, Trundle's pillar moving Morgana is not a disable, it is moving because she can't stand inside terrain.
Maximum Morde6 votesI don't really see this as a bug and I play a lot of Morgana. Her black shield however does block the slow attached to the pillar. The pillar itself is considered terrain, which No champion can walk through. It isn't the pillar spell displacing you, it's the game engine that defines walkable territory bumping you slightly to the closest piece of walkable space.
That is the best way I can think of to describe it. The pillar itself does not do a knockup/displace.
Dominick Destine2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=yW5KVfEZ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-01-18T16:41:30.261+0000)
I don't really see this as a bug and I play a lot of Morgana.
It's actually quite repeatable.
Put Morgana in a static point , use black shield and then have Trundle pop the center of his Pillar under Morgana. Morgana will be knocked airborne/disabled/displaced briefly something that should NEVER occur.
The pillar itself does not do a knockup/displace.
Yes it does.
I will check to see if I can upload a video showing this instance. I hope my replay system is functioning properly.