[GAMEPLAY] Trundle's Pillar (E) will knock airborne/displace/disable Morgana through Black Shield(E)

Dominick Destine·Jan 28, 2016·2 votes·6,190 views

Morgana's Black Shield is described and intended to , prevent disables including all forms of displacement as well being knocked airborne, however Trundle's Pillar will bypass Black Shield entirely, effectively tagging her with several of those.

https://youtu.be/5wIof02iGTU (Thank you to Lelefky for the video link) It is done twice but the one at 0:52 seconds is much more clear.

It happened to me very frequently in a match awhile back when I was playing Morgana against a Trundle, I reported it but used the wrong format, I am now using the correct format and even have a video sample. Thank you for your attention.

65 Comments

EndlessSorcererJan 28, 20167 votes

Did you seriously report this thread after your last one was downvoted?

A champion cannot occupy the same position as terrain, therefore it moves you off of the terrain. This is not a bug.

Stars ShaperJan 30, 20162 votes

Proof that Diamond Players can be no betetr than Mud V ones

q O y O pJan 28, 20164 votes

There is nothing wrong with the Pillar/Black Shield Morgana interaction. It is working as intended, without any bug or exploits.

I think I understand what you want done though...

If there were changes to be made, as you suggest, when Trundle places Pillar directly on Black Shielded Morgana, THE PILLAR placement would move? Which direction would it go?

SomeLinkJan 28, 20163 votes

I imagine it has to because it is generated "terrain". Just as anivia wall will probably still shove her aside. More so she doesn't get stuck inside the pillar and can't move for the duration.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Just as anivia wall will probably still shove her aside.

Anivia's wall does not knock Morgana airborne.

Disables/stun/displacement/knocked-airborne should not bypass Black Shield under any circumstances.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-28T03:25:49.292+0000)

Anivia's wall does not knock Morgana airborne.

Disables/stun/displacement/knocked-airborne should not bypass Black Shield under any circumstances.

Reading comprehension is a must when the only medium to communicate through is typed.

anivia wall will probably still shove her aside

Anivia's wall does not knock Morgana airborne

It moves her away from generated terrain. If you want your champion to become rooted, and unable to cast. Go ahead. The reason terrain MUST move a champion is because the two cannot exist in the same space, the definition of terrain disallows that.

Terrain and wall laws are higher than that of temporal skill laws.

EndlessSorcererJan 28, 20161 votes

I wouldn't even bother. They made a thread a few days ago on the same topic and multiple people gave them that exact explanation, which they proceeded to ignore.

It's not worth the effort to teach those who don't want to be taught.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20161 votes

I know. I know. I have free time though.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Reading comprehension is a must when the only medium to communicate through is typed.

I agree, maybe you should read my comments again.

It moves her

It should not move her at all.

Let me explain yet again the basic premise , which is not complicated btw; I understand that the current system leads to Morgana being disabled. My argument is that the way it is right now, is wrong. It's a glitch because , and stay with me here; The METHOD by which the disable is delivered is irrelevant, no disable should bypass Black Shield.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-28T03:46:27.336+0000)

I agree, maybe you should read my comments again.

It should not move her at all.

Let me explain yet again the basic premise , which is not complicated btw; I understand that the current system leads to Morgana being disabled. My argument is that the way it is right now, is wrong. It's a glitch because , and stay with me here; The METHOD by which the disable is delivered is irrelevant, no disable should bypass Black Shield.

If we really want to go into this:

ACTIVE: Trundle projects a pillar of ice at the target location for 6 seconds, Airborne icon knocking back everyone directly over it on cast, acting as impassable terrain for the duration and Slow icon slowing enemies around it.

im·pass·a·ble imˈpasəb(ə)l/ adjective impossible to travel along or over.

Impassible is not a form of CC. Black shield blocks CC. Impassible is thus doing what impassible does, being impassible. Morgana is moving herself to react to impassible, and maintain the status of impassible. Morgana is taking the only option available to keep both statements true.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Knocked airborne"/displacement/stun is not a form of CC. Black shield blocks CC.

Edited your comment to accurately reflect what I am actually arguing rather than the strawman you are presenting.

And yes, being knocked airborne/displacement/stun(s) are a form of disable , therefore you are completely incorrect.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-28T04:38:49.013+0000)

Edited your comment to accurately reflect what I am actually arguing rather than the strawman you are presenting.

And yes, being knocked airborne/displacement/stun(s) are a form of disable , therefore you are completely incorrect.

No, the argument here is that Morgana is reacting to something, not something having an effect on morgana. Morgana is reacting to existing in terrain, which morgana knows she cannot do. Thus she jumps out of it, since she has to jump to move now, since her Z location changes.

DREADN0UGHTJan 30, 20161 votes

He said "Strawman" . You are fucked.

LelefskiJan 28, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-28T03:46:27.336+0000)

I agree, maybe you should read my comments again.

It should not move her at all.

Let me explain yet again the basic premise , which is not complicated btw; I understand that the current system leads to Morgana being disabled. My argument is that the way it is right now, is wrong. It's a glitch because , and stay with me here; The METHOD by which the disable is delivered is irrelevant, no disable should bypass Black Shield.

Nah it should still move her because it's still terrain. It shouldn't knock up though like it does. Anivia's E pushes people to the side due to hurtbox collision. Trundle's E on a Black Shielded target should block the knock up but still push them to the side because programming Black Shield to allow it to pass through terrain would mean she would be allowed to walk through walls

BeatzBoyFTWJan 28, 20163 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/yW5KVfEZ-getting-stunneddisplaced-while-under-black-shield?comment=000100000000

Man, you're so stubborn.....

LelefskiJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/yW5KVfEZ-getting-stunneddisplaced-while-under-black-shield?comment=000100000000

Man, you're so stubborn.....

You're right that the terrain displaces them but the question is why does it knock Morgana up as well? Anivia E if cast over a hurtbox will push them towards a direction and not knock them up

SomeLinkJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're right that the terrain displaces them but the question is why does it knock Morgana up as well? Anivia E if cast over a hurtbox will push them towards a direction and not knock them up

Either of 2 options. 1.) It actually mentions spell immune as soon as it spawns. It could be playing the knock-up animation because the terrain is unblockable and that is how the game was taught to deal with something standing in the center of cast, thus it plays the animation, but she doesn't classify as knock-up status. (Yasuo wise would be an interesting test.) 2.) The terrain is unblockable, so they cheat coded it because there is no "if" statement that can be made, the knock-up due to terrain generation is the only thing that can happen. (This would be the existence of impassible playing out, not CC) The wall abilities are thin, and can do a small nudge. Pillar is specifically designed to go from z => Z + 1, and is quite a bit thicker. The Z movement requires a different type of reaction than a "flat" wall like anivia/jarvan.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and that is how the game was taught to deal with something

Let me reiterate yet again; Yes, I understand that the game is currently disabling Morgana through Black Shield. That is not the argument. The argument is that what is currently happening, is Wrong. It's a glitch and needs to be fixed.

I am honestly somewhat blown away by how many people are failing to understand such a basic premise.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-28T04:42:13.346+0000)

Let me reiterate yet again; Yes, I understand that the game is currently disabling Morgana through Black Shield. That is not the argument. The argument is that what is currently happening, is Wrong. It's a glitch and needs to be fixed.

I am honestly somewhat blown away by how many people are failing to understand such a basic premise.

Can't read the fact that I said that it was playing the animation, but not knocking her up.

LelefskiJan 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Either of 2 options. 1.) It actually mentions spell immune as soon as it spawns. It could be playing the knock-up animation because the terrain is unblockable and that is how the game was taught to deal with something standing in the center of cast, thus it plays the animation, but she doesn't classify as knock-up status. (Yasuo wise would be an interesting test.)

Trundle's pillar can be used to proc Yasuo's ultimate as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSD05VrfJM However, when testing that interaction in live patch with some friends, currently you are not able to use Yasuo ult off a Trundle pillar. I don't recall any sort of patch changing that interaction so I'm not sure why you currently cannot do it when you were able to do so in previous patches as shown in that video clip.

2.) The terrain is unblockable, so they cheat coded it because there is no "if" statement that can be made, the knock-up due to terrain generation is the only thing that can happen. (This would be the existence of impassible playing out, not CC) The wall abilities are thin, and can do a small nudge. Pillar is specifically designed to go from z => Z + 1, and is quite a bit thicker. The Z movement requires a different type of reaction than a "flat" wall like anivia/jarvan.

That's actually a pretty good explanation; the next question is why does an increase in thickness require or elicit a difference response, in this case always a knock up even through black shield. I~~n that case, what about Olaf's ultimate? Does Trundle's Pillar force a knock up upon through Olaf's ultimate as well? I'm going to test it, I'll be back with a video.~~

Trundle's Pillar knocks up Olaf through his ult, too: https://youtu.be/HvhuSWK86ac

SomeLinkFeb 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Trundle's pillar can be used to proc Yasuo's ultimate as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSD05VrfJM However, when testing that interaction in live patch with some friends, currently you are not able to use Yasuo ult off a Trundle pillar. I don't recall any sort of patch changing that interaction so I'm not sure why you currently cannot do it when you were able to do so in previous patches as shown in that video clip.

Interesting. Personally not a fan of yasuo, so a bug against him is good for me.

That's actually a pretty good explanation; the next question is why does an increase in thickness require or elicit a difference response, in this case always a knock up even through black shield. I~~n that case, what about Olaf's ultimate? Does Trundle's Pillar force a knock up upon through Olaf's ultimate as well? I'm going to test it, I'll be back with a video.~~

Trundle's Pillar knocks up Olaf through his ult, too: https://youtu.be/HvhuSWK86ac

Super late reply.

Three things to that.

One: the inherent trap factor. A thin wall, (such as anivia's) is going to be easy to shove to either side since some of the hit box may be majority on one side of the wall. Something like trundles pillar, has the potential to surround a hitbox and trap something inside it by not knowing where to push it. Or not being able to push it due to how the game engine works. Like this: https://youtu.be/BS4_rlTv3hI?t=250

Two: Movement. Anivia wall for all intents is a line segment. While yes, anivia wall is going to have a Z coordinate, it only needs one through-out the whole thing and that is to keep anything from stepping on it, and just to make sure it appears on the map. (And not say, below it. Or 50 units above the map.) It is a spawned, static, object. This wall just says "hey, you can't be here. Move to where the greatest part of you is". Trundle pillar has to move. It starts from below, moves anything above it up, and moves itself up. It has more of a cylinder shape (with a cone on top probably, to help with the "where" of the movement of anything above it) This wall says "hey! I am an elevator and no wait you can't be on me move!"

Three: Tie in effects. Anivia wall has nothing tying into it. Trundle pillar is specifically supposed to knock anything above the pillar up. That is just the hard coding of the object. Anivia wall can't be blocked by a spell shield because it doesn't inherently effect the champion. It just spawns a wall. Now similarly, Trundles pillar is just spawning a wall. This wall moves a bit though. It does nothing to the champion (or actually.. 1 true damage I think), it just spawns, and moves up. They probably tied the knock-up effect of the pillar into the moving up of the pillar. Basically, if the pillar moves anything above it, it is classified as knocked up because it changed the z coordinate of whatever was above it. (And this is where the upper cone comes into effect because it helps choose do I push the object up and to the right, up and to the left, up and up, or up and down?)

Thus: If you coded for a spell shield to deny the movement of a wall, you can get trapped inside of it. Especially something that has the potential to eat your hitbox. And they were probably lazy, coded the effect in the middle of the movement of the spell. Thus they would need to rewrite the whole ability just for the interaction. Easier to just say that it is immune to spell shields.

Also. Most ground targeted AoEs are immune to spell shields. Wall abilities are ground targeted AoEs.

TheLastShadow45Jan 28, 20163 votes

I'm going to say this again. Endless is right, a champion and terrain CANNOT be on the same place at the same time. With what you want done anyone with morg shield wouldn't be moved by the spawned terrain and will be stuck in it until it is gone. So therefore it needs to move them to prevent this. Also from what others said the reason anivia wall shoves is because it forms from the inside then moves out. Trundle makes his come up from the ground.

HorusEyeJan 30, 20163 votes

I asked a Rioter about this, and:

http://i.imgur.com/ycMnHHk.png

Now stop being stubborn & accept the truth. Still think it's wrong? Go ask Riot Support yourself.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I asked a Rioter about this, and:

http://i.imgur.com/ycMnHHk.png

"Player support specialist"

HorusEyeJan 30, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-01-30T15:29:43.377+0000)

"Player support specialist"

Still wouldn't give me false information for no reason. Or else, I would have just asked this question on Dota 2 Support.

Stars ShaperJan 30, 20161 votes

Pillar of Ice is a ground-targeted area of effect ability. Spell shields will not block the ability.

From the Wiki.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=000900000001,timestamp=2016-01-30T15:34:39.520+0000)

From the Wiki.

Stars ShaperJan 30, 20161 votes

Gear KittyJan 30, 20163 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/yW5KVfEZ-getting-stunneddisplaced-while-under-black-shield?comment=0012

You've already been told, multiple times in multiple threads, that Morg E DOES NOT BLOCK ALL DISABLES. She cannot shield herself and be immune to a Bard Ult, an allied Kalista Ult when bound to her, or even her own Zhonya Active.

Those are "disables", as you would put it, yet still bypass her Spell Shield. Therefore, Black Shield DOES NOT BLOCK ALL DISABLES. Until you admit that, no one will give you the time of day in regards to this discussion.

Now, if you're still on about this, it needs to be pointed out that BY DEFINITION, this is not a Bug/Glitch.

It is a FEATURE.

Whether they ultimately wanted to or not, the programmers set it up this way. In many cases, that would still be a bug, yes?

NOT IN THIS CASE. The Live Balance team WANTS IT TO WORK THIS WAY.

It is WAI; Working As Intended.

TL;DR OP hasn't eaten that bag of phallus shaped gummies, is still hungry and ornery.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gear Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-01-30T19:38:42.835+0000)

You've already been told, multiple times in multiple threads, that Morg E DOES NOT BLOCK ALL DISABLES.

Correct.

And what I have been telling you and others like you is that that's a glitch, a bug. Trundle's Pillar should not knock morgana airborne/disable/stun/displace her. This is not complicated.

Gear KittyJan 30, 20163 votes

You don't get to pick and choose what you reply to.

Reread the second half of that post, cause I already beat you to the punch and pre-countered your (dangerously close to short bus terrain) reply.

IT IS A FEATURE, NOT A BUG OR GLITCH.

To get anyone on your side, you need to stop referring to it as such, and start campaigning for it to work as you want. NOT AS A BUG FIX but as a FEATURE CHANGE.

Edit: and seriously, try the phallus gummies, you get a little stupid when you're hungry.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gear Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2016-01-30T20:24:20.270+0000)

pick and choose

Redundancy is not a city in Palestine, sir.

But to answer your implied statement; I reply to any salient points made, I don't reply to fluff text.

To get anyone on your side, you need to stop

I will not stop until the glitch is addressed. If Riot says that disables are intended to bypass Black Shield, I will be perfectly fine with that.... but as it stands, it is quite simply a glitch, a bug, an error in the system. You can try to justify it by arguing method but that is a terrible argument that will be dismissed on the spot.

Disables are not intended to bypass Black Shield.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20162 votes

Though, it is most likely because pillar of ice is unblockable by spell shields, as an intended effect since it is listed on wiki forever.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20161 votes

as an intended effect

Incorrect.

Disables are not meant to bypass Black Shield.

SomeLinkJan 28, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-01-28T04:46:13.991+0000)

Incorrect.

Disables are not meant to bypass Black Shield.

Pillar of Ice is not effected by Spell shields. It will work against Sivir, Nocturne, Black Shield, and Banshees. As intended.([IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/348t0zb.png[/IMG])

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

Satisfactory resolution has not yet been achieved.

Stars ShaperJan 30, 20163 votes

More like "Wet fantasy" has nor yet been achieved.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

You are projecting, sir.

All I am asking for is a resolution to the reported incident of broken game mechanics (Aka glitch).

Stars ShaperJan 30, 20161 votes

Except that is not a glitch, Trundle spawns a piece of environment which means the blackshield doesn't have effect on it, same applies to Sivir's and Banshee's Veil one.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

You are correct in that it is currently disabling Morgana through Black Shield, what I am telling you that you are failing to comprehend, is that the way it current is; is Wrong. It's a glitch.

Disables are not intended to bypass Black Shield.

Stars ShaperJan 30, 20161 votes

and what you are failing to understand is that it's working as intended, the wiki page of Trundle states that his E isn't affected by any spellshield and it's intended to do so.

Dominick DestineJan 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=MZ2EG4QE,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-30T19:25:45.558+0000)

and what you are failing to understand is that it's working as intended

Incorrect.

It is a glitch. Refer to in-game description of Black Shield.

The Great DivideJan 31, 20161 votes

Honestly, this is entertaining to read. It is like being on the edge of one's seat, wondering when the OP will finally give up and understand all of the evidence presented to him. Oooooh man, the suspense is killing me.

Dominick DestineFeb 1, 20161 votes

I insist that satisfactory resolution has not yet been achieved.

I don't mind if a Rioter says that Disables are intended to bypass Black Shield because at least that would be a resolution to the glitch report.

Dominick DestineFeb 7, 20161 votes

Would like a response to this.

Are disables intended to bypass Black Shield? Y/N?

Nobody1111Feb 7, 20161 votes

I would return this to you.

if a specific disable is purposely coded as an exceptions, is it intended? y/n? a blanket rule doesn't mean that there can't be exceptions. nor does it invalidate the rule

Dominick DestineFeb 9, 20161 votes

Satisfactory resolution has not been achieved.

Riot.

Dominick DestineFeb 12, 20161 votes

The question remains, Lord Riot Sama.

Dominick DestineMar 12, 20161 votes

The glitch continues.

So does the effort to get it fixed.

Dominick DestineMar 22, 20161 votes

This glitch has not been fixed.