Help with Ziggs build! (Banshee, Athene, etc)

boosted frog·Sep 5, 2015·1 votes·1,129 views

I'm a newbie ziggs who just started Zigging yesterday and i have a few build questions

If I'm against multiple APs, is building Banshee Veil a good investment? Or I can go Athene + Abyssal Staff + Scaling MR Glyphs which by late game should give me ~100 MR I'm not sure if Banshee's veil is worth building over pure damage (or damage+defense like Abyssal)

Also, I wonder if Morello + Athene is good on Ziggs? I try to get 40% CDR on Ziggs because of the usefulness of his ult and Q (I can ult minion waves to save turrets or ult to kill etc) With Athene's (which I always build), 5% CDR mastery and Ionion Boots, I can get 40% CDR but miss out on Sorcerer boots Or I can go Athenes + Morello and have sorcerer boots but miss out on other stronger offensive items like Lich bane because I built Morello instead

Which build path for CDR is better? How good is Morello on Ziggs instead of something stronger like Lich?

Any thoughts on the build? I kinda went all over the place with the question

6 Comments

V KhatSep 5, 20152 votes

The rule of Athene's and Morellonomicon is simple. Athene vs AP Champions. Morello vs AD or those with high sustain. Banshee Vail is not for many AP champions but rather for against a team with high CC. If many AP champs without high CC are in the other team with GAP Closers, get Abyssal. Or if you get focused a lot GA.

As for CDR, do not max it on Ziggs. He's a nuker, and your Q will get around 3 sec CDs with 20% CDR already, they are on low CD's. Instead rush items such Luden's Eccho.

You shouldn't build the same for every game. Think what items are good. For example: 4 tanks, You want to get Liandry's, Void staff and Sorc boots.

ToasteySep 5, 20151 votes

Ziggs isn't a burst champion, and his Q is his only low cooldown at 6/5.5/5/4.5/4s. His W is 26/24/22/20/18s, his E is 16s at all ranks, and his ult is 120s at all ranks.

With max CDR, that gives you

Q on 2.4s W on 10.8s E on 9.6s (with mine duration of 10s) R on 72s.

CDR is very, very valuable on a zone control, spam-casting mage like Ziggs. You literally have your minefield up again before it expires, and your satchel charge is a very important piece of self-peel and zone control. Having your ult 48s earlier is absolutely invaluable for controlling and turning teamfights.

V KhatSep 6, 20151 votes

He is actually. You are supposed to kill anything with your combo, without needing the ult, unless they have a good escape mechanisim. Besides right now Ziggs is doing good with higher damage spamming his Q instead of the other skills if you are using Luden's Eccho.

ToasteySep 6, 20151 votes

Combo? What combo? E -> Q -> Passive -> W? That's about the only combo possible with Ziggs. Let's add up his numbers (without his ult, as you say).

Using the EQPW combo I listed above, you'd do roughly 765 (+1.63 AP). That is disgustingly low if you want to call yourself a burst mage. Only if your opponent goes through the trouble of walking into every single one of your mines, they'd take 1325 (+2.85 AP). However, the most common combo landed on Ziggs would be EQPWQ. That's ~1020 (+2.3 AP), depending on how many mines they step on.

Lux has a damage rotation of 1154 (+2.25 AP) from her QERE combo, and that's actually on the lower end for burst mages.

LeBlanc, a true burst mage, has a spell rotation of 1295 (+3.1 AP), 1435 (+3.6 AP) if you hit both parts of your chain. That's from a QRWE combo.

tldr Ziggs is not a combo-based, bursty mage. He was made for wave clearing, spamming spells, and zone control.

ToasteySep 5, 20152 votes

Unless these "multiple APs" on the enemy team have a million gap closers (read: Diana, Fizz), then you shouldn't even need a defensive item. You should be relying on positioning more than defensive items as Ziggs. Banshee's is less of an MR investment as it is a "I need to avoid one spell that will lose my team the whole fight" investment. If you're having problems with a Blitzcrank or someone has a stun that you absolutely must avoid, get a Banshee's. Remember, MR is vastly more effective and gold efficient if you have HP to back it up. If you want to itemise fully defensively, build something like Liandry's, Rylai's, and Banshee's.

If you want max CDR, I think the best way to go is to bring scaling CDR glyphs + 5% CDR mastery + Morello/Athene's (only one, not both). Then you can just focus on building AP and spell pen.

If you don't want to bring CDR glyphs, then buy cooldown boots but get an earlier Void Staff (like second item) or a really early Haunting Guise (right after your boots). Don't bother upgrading the Haunting Guise till later, though; the spell pen doesn't get any stronger.

Don't build Abyssal on Ziggs. You barely ever benefit from the MR-reduction aura since you'll be spamming spells from long range.

Lich Bane isn't core on Ziggs; it's a situational item. If your team has a solid front line and good siege potential, get Lich Bane and knock down some towers with your passive. If you don't have a good front line and you go for Lich Bane autos on towers, you'll just get caught and die.

Hope this helped!

Dank HanglerSep 5, 20151 votes

Depends on the game really, if they have 3+ ap burst mages, not just ap dealers but burst mages, then banishes veil last item is not a bad idea, anything 2 or under, damage is the way to go because you are not gonna be lacking in 1 shot potential, if they have a balanced comp then you may even opt for a guardian angel as last item.