PSA for "Tanks"

K54·Feb 14, 2015·3 votes·1,310 views

is free this week and what's grinding my gears is this full defensive build with absolutely no AD/ArPen at all!

Unless the champion's damage effectiveness in their passive/abilities scales with defensive stats (health, armor, magic resistance) or enemy's health, you should have some type of offensive item incorporated into your build.

If you want to go full tank (no offensive items), here are a few examples of champions you can do it with and why his Q damage is based off target current health. His E gives flat damage bonus + % missing health. flat damage bonus in his R that benefit his QE as well as his W being AS/LS awesome tank if you farm well with his Q (though I tend to take hyrbid ap/defense since he benefits greatly from AP) Ult is based off enemy's missing health. has passive bleed damage, ult does true damage and stacks with the bleed for double the amount. has damage scaling with armor (though I recommend hybrid mr/ap items if you need AP in certain matches) Q gives you AD, W increases health regen and benefits from passive as well flat damage bonus with Q, W scales with his maximum health and enemies missing health on the rare occassion you come across a full AP team and coincidentally have Galio, by all means stack the hell out that MR (full armor against an AP team doesn't benefit him as much as you'd like though) Q does bonus damage based off max health can get their damage output on ADC/assassin via their ult flat attack damage bonus in W and armor scaling damage in E

When it comes to and I recommend the same with though not necessary, you need to have a lifesteal and an arpen item within your tank build These champions are meant to be "tanky" or "tankish" not full "tank"

When it comes to should at least have a Rabadon's.

Hybrid champions like need a at minimum. I've never even remotely thought about building a before, but if you insist on going "tank build" with a hybrid champ, this is also highly recommended.

For me, I normally only give champions 2 defensive items, 3 if you include or and 1 of the defensive items is normally if enemy has balanced damage team composition. Even then, my last defensive item is probably a hybrid instead of straight defense.

23 Comments

insaiyanbaccaFeb 14, 20153 votes

hecarm is not hybrid he is ad, nasus doesnt scale well with ap at all, trundle doesnt get regen off his w at least not the last time i played him. and darius should be built with at least a brutalizer and olaf also needs at least 1 damage item. do you even know how these champions work?

EndlessSorcererFeb 14, 20151 votes

Nasus kinda scales with AP, but you're typically better off getting a Trinity Force and defensive items. Trundle's W doesn't give him regen, but it amplifies all other forms of healing he receives, such as his passive and lifesteal and health regen.

insaiyanbaccaFeb 14, 20151 votes

oh yeah i completely forgot about the amped healing thanks for the reminder

K54Feb 14, 20151 votes

Clearly you don't play as Trundle. And 2 of Hecarim's highest damage moves (including his ult) scale with AP. If that's the case, Evelynn, Jax and Ezreal are just AD champs, too. Please don't speak from bias.

M0b1usFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Clearly you don't play as Trundle. And 2 of Hecarim's highest damage moves (including his ult) scale with AP. If that's the case, Evelynn, Jax and Ezreal are just AD champs, too. Please don't speak from bias.

So by your logic, all of the following champions should be built hybrid or AP.

Aatrox, Ashe, Mundo, Fiora, Gangplank, Gnar, Graves, Jayce, Irelia, Kha, Noc, MF, Varus, Trist, Trynd, Udyr, Shen, Xin, Yorick and a number of others I am not thinking of.

Just because champs have scaling with AP or AD does not mean they work best with said stat. Hecarim doesn't work well with AP. His kit is much better suited for a big tank that uses his Q as his primary form of damage. Just like how buying AP on Nasus is a complete waste and would be much better off with some other bulk item or trinity.

Listen, you are bronze 5 with sub 300 wins in normals. Don't act like you know what is best because you still don't have the experience to know why things work and why others don't.

AsphodelNextFeb 14, 20151 votes

Hecarim doesn't need AP, but it's not like he doesn't work well with it. It lets him get that extra little bit of damage out of Triforce that makes it even more worth the cost. Also, Hecarim doesn't need to be built full tank, he can be built for damage with one or two tank items and do well. Normally, you get Triforce, Visage/FH, and BotRK/Youmuu's, and play him for burst AOE damage and CC with survivability.

K54Feb 15, 20151 votes

Not even remotely my logic. But Jax is clearly an AP champ. AP Jax has way higher damage output than AD Jax. I build my Jax and Diana the same way. Works for me, if it doesn't work for you, you just suck and don't know how to build for the situation. As for being Bronze 5, I started in S2 and was doing well. Dodging queues, account suspension for verbal harassment and 2 intentionally AFK's causes you to drop quickly. The AFKs were both due to people bitches about KS. I gave him the option, I can carry us to victory or I can quit. He told me he didn't need me to win, so I found something else to do for 30 minutes. After your account gets banned, you drop to 0 points and B5 automatically. So keep the rank bs to yourself.

I don't have time for trolls or people like you, don't have the patience for your ignorance honestly. If you question my skill, I'll be more than happy to show you what I'm capable of in Howling Abyss. Further more, I recommend mirror matches against your AD Jax, Tristana, Ezreal, Udyr with my AP Jax, Tristana, Ezreal, Udyr.

If you don't accept the challenge, then keep the flaming to yourself.

insaiyanbaccaFeb 14, 20151 votes

i have at lest 70 games on trundle. and i mained hecarim during middle-end of season 4. and eve is actually built ad now from what i understand from the eve mains ive talked to jax is played built nearly full ad with the exception of tri force and ezreal is either played full ad or full ap not hybrid.

K54Feb 15, 20151 votes

I was just making a point, I always choose AP or AD. Perfect example is Kog, I love AP Kog, AP Ez and AP Jax.

But for the Hecarim AP naysayers, Hecarim's W does 240 damage scaling 80% AP and his ult does 350 damage scaling with 100% AP. I build AP Hecarim when I play him and it's very effective opposed to his 200 damage Q with 60% AD scaling and 180 damage E with 50% scaling (double damage and scaling at Max range)

RozzetaFeb 15, 20151 votes

Better nerf AP Pantheon

K54Feb 15, 20151 votes

Hecarim AP naysayers, Hecarim's W does 240 damage scaling 80% AP and his ult does 350 damage scaling with 100% AP. I build AP Hecarim when I play him and it's very effective opposed to his 200 damage Q with 60% AD scaling and 180 damage E with 50% scaling (double damage and scaling at Max range)

I do take a Hydra though. Works for me. Doesn't work for you, IDC, that's your problem.

LoccoDennisFeb 14, 20152 votes

Naut, Nunu, Sej, Leo, and mao need no damage at all.. especially not a rabs.. you get rabs if you build multiple ap items, so not "atleast" as you can get the same ap from other items.

DorkunedAurasFeb 14, 20152 votes

nunu, sej, and mao all need a bit of damage, otherwise they get ignorable. Most Maokai's, even in the LCS, get an RoA, and I've seen that Sej as well. Nunu tends to get a rylai's or something for more slows or even going full AP tank.

LoccoDennisFeb 14, 20151 votes

You are right on Mao, but Idk about Sej, especially with her low scaling of her abilities and playstyle. Full tank Nunu is the most common but a rylai's i guess is OK, and Im not a fan of Nunu. Sej nor Mao can be ignored due to their ridiculous amounts of cc.

EndlessSorcererFeb 14, 20151 votes

I find that Iceborn Gauntlet or Liandry's Torment are typically better damage items for Sejuani.

For Nautilus, I've been getting Sunfire Cape and Juggernaut with Skirmishers Sabre so I deal pretty good consistent damage.

Nunu seems like he would benefit more from Liandry's Torment for damage than Rylai. His only damage abilities already slow and he has high base damages (so the magic pen is nice).

K54Feb 14, 20151 votes

item 3116 is for increases slow, makes it harden to escape the ult.

EndlessSorcererFeb 14, 20151 votes

The slows stack multiplicatively though, so it's not that big an increase. Just seems kinda inefficient to me, though I suppose it can work.

K54Feb 14, 20151 votes

Thank you for your intelligence.

Tin TarantinoFeb 14, 20151 votes

item 3089 does scale off of itself, so it gives more AP than most items, though a item 3003 might be a better choice, you get quite a bit of AP, and a shield active once it stacks fully.

K54Feb 14, 20151 votes

item 3089 bonus scales with total AP, not bonus AP. I get 28AP from runes plus 120. 148AP * .3 = 44.4

So a deathcap gives me 192.4 total AP

Jungle Nasus is one of my mains, I know what I'm talking about. I build a Rabadon's at minimum if I take the 500 health jungle item. Only did that once, wasn't as effective as taking the 80 AP route though.

M0b1usFeb 14, 20151 votes

Yeah, sorry to say but your tips are greater harm than anything.

Nasus SUCKS with AP. His ult only increases damage with every 100 and his E is primarily used for the armor shred.

Sej, Naut, Leona, Cho, Mao and to a lesser extent Nunu don't need deathcap what-so-ever. Literally it is a waste of space. Only pure AP Nunu could make strong use of it. Abyssal would be 10x better than deathcap on theses champions. Even then there are MUCH better options.

Did you really say get AP on Rammus.... Just don't. There are much better things you can get. Armor blues would even be better than AP blues.

The only 2 champions that you should ever see with a gunblade often are Akali and Morde. You should NEVER build gunblade on Hecarim and Jax benefits so much more from BoRK and Tri. As for rageblade, even fewer champs use it. The last time I saw it was when I was playing a 5 man premade and we did an all S1 team where I was Kayle that built gunblade and rageblade. Hecarim benefits so much more from a tri or gauntlet. Hec is not a hybrid champ, get that idea out of your head.

You have the right idea, that it is often beneficial to build some form of damage. But a lot of your suggestions are just, for lack of a better word, garbage. However you are wrong in thinking that EVERYONE must build some form of damage. Many champions can build full tank and still deal considerable damage because they can itemize so that they have a lot of indirect damage. Sejuani is one of my best jungles and I never build offense on her. I itemize heavily in HP and CDR because of my W and to improve my sticking power. Often my huge bulk and residual damage will make it nearly impossible to get away from me and the residual damage does add up.

AsphodelNextFeb 14, 20151 votes

Normally, I build RoA or Rylai's on my AP tanks(Cho'gath, Nautilus, Sejuani) instead of Rabadon's. Rabadon's gives you a lot of AP, sure, but it is expensive, and I'd rather be more balanced towards tankiness then damage, especially since I'm not getting the scaling of a full AP build. Maybe get a Zhonya's, but that's as far as I'll go for AP without just going all the way and playing a slightly tanky AP carry like Ryze or Swain. Tanky supports(Leona, Taric, Ali, Braum) can get by without a damage item, since their main contribution is going to be CC and utility. Sure, 5th or 6th item you can go for some damage, but most supports barely have enough gold to fulfill their primary role and tank without getting killed, while still buying wards.

Ashtar7Feb 15, 20151 votes

What you're saying could apply to a good ranked team that knows each other and basic LOL strategy. However, solo q is different. If an initiator, like jarvin, doesn't err on the side of tanky, he'll get blown up b/c so often solo q teammates let you down and don't group and back up their tank efffectively. So you need to be more tanky than the ideal to survive long enough to escape back to safety of a turret or teammate. I would say jarvin needs one damage item like hydra or just a tiamet and sunfire, but two solely damage items leaves you too exposed.