Closing out games?

Onwodori·Mar 19, 2015·1 votes·1,254 views

Ugh my head.

Hey everyone. Waking up still. It's me, Master Fledgling.

I went for the 'one last game' last night, and it turned into an hour + fiasco which we ultimately threw. Just look at this:

matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1764784534/218800766

There was NO reason for us to lose that -- we were ahead the entire game, got multiple final dragon buffs, barons, I had all the big swords (I was Twitch), could insta kill everyone if left alone to shoot for 5 seconds, we had their towers down at around 20 minutes --

but we couldn't do it!! I don't get what happened. Any advice on how to close out games? It honestly doesn't make sense to me how a game can start like M. Night Shamalan's career and end like M. Night Shamalan's career (Very good to very Avatar.)

Thanks and I'm going to go get some more coffee

-MF

21 Comments

missouMar 19, 20157 votes

No reason to lose? You're all AD, have no strong initiators, have a weak frontline, have no knockups for Yasuo, have no teleport on your team, don't have a single member on your team with proper build+trinket, and reached a point in the game where gold leads are irrelevent because everyone is full build.

Full AD, not a SINGLE last whisper. Not a single member on your team with ANY armor pen in build whatsoever. You went IE on Twitch without a single crit item. Noone on your team has Sweeper or Farsight. Your entire team has ~400 CS or higher, meaning you were all solo farming the majority of the game, despite being full build.

You never bought an Elixir, despite being full build for over 20 minutes. You have one of the worst rune pages I've ever seen. Your Yasuo was 30/0/0, taking AP masteries.

Closing out games? That's definitely not the main issue you need help with, if you can somehow sit through over an hour of that kind of garbage and still believe there was no reason for your team to lose.

rth2Mar 19, 20151 votes

A lot of things pointed out here.

I would say the biggest one which was pointed out was the lack of item 3035 on 4 AD champs (it is basically core on Twitch Vayne Yasuo , and worth building on Darius especially against that team).

Combined that team had 3x item 3075 2x item 3157 1x item 3110 and 1x item 3068 ! Looking at their builds during any point in time should have let you know that you want to buy % armor penetration. For some reason even the enemy Varus did not have item 3035 . Also adding in crit chance (as pointed out) would help a lot, even just one item 3046 to give you 55% crit chance instead of 20%.

With these builds your team cannot fight or really defend themselves. I could reiterate more points made by Missou but they have already stated things.

Also, you are playing in team builder. I'm not saying people in teambuilder don't know how to play, but generally team builder is where people go to try things. People try new champions, new idea's, new lanes, etc.. just to see how they will work. You won't get the best efficiency practice in team builder. Do you want to win in team builder? Yeah, but that's not what team builder is really about. It's about experimenting.

OnwodoriMar 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A lot of things pointed out here.

I would say the biggest one which was pointed out was the lack of on 4 AD champs (it is basically core on , and worth building on especially against that team).

Combined that team had 3x 2x 1x and 1x! Looking at their builds during any point in time should have let you know that you want to buy % armor penetration. For some reason even the enemy did not have . Also adding in crit chance (as pointed out) would help a lot, even just one to give you 55% crit chance instead of 20%.

With these builds your team cannot fight or really defend themselves. I could reiterate more points made by Missou but they have already stated things.

Also, you are playing in team builder. I'm not saying people in teambuilder don't know how to play, but generally team builder is where people go to try things. People try new champions, new idea's, new lanes, etc.. just to see how they will work. You won't get the best efficiency practice in team builder. Do you want to win in team builder? Yeah, but that's not what team builder is really about. It's about experimenting.

Damn, I feel silly -- I had a last whisper and sold it for the infinity edge =/ I somehow thought that was stronger.

rth2Mar 20, 20151 votes

You were probably thinking about the raw damage and crits without taking the mitigation into account. It happens.

I would have probably swapped out the item 3006 for something akin to item 3172 . It is a good boot replacement, gives damage, AS, MS, CDR, and tenacity. If the game goes really late you generally want to swap boots out for something.

Especially going with item 3031 I would have dropped the item 3085 for item 3046 . You give up the 3 hits but you get your crit chance to 55%, still have good attack speed, and having your ult splash damage that much more likely to crit may help you a lot.

Last I would probably drop the item 3072 for item 3035 and item 2140 (help with the sustain through the item 3075 ). Lots of this is because they have a Varus Veigar and the item 3139 is too too good.

This would leave you with Twitch item 3031 item 3172 item 3153 item 3046 item 3035 item 3139 . Which would probably help you do the thing it looks like you were trying to do well. Get in a good position, open up with heavy damage and 55% crit with a bunch of armor pen. and splash damage. Hopefully get everyone low enough for Darius to start the dunking.

Hopefully that is a little helpful!! Good luck!

Sona PingMar 19, 20152 votes

You guys heard it here first! No Teleport > 17.6k gold advantage.

Serious note, look at the numbers. The reason they lost this game was due to multiple bad team fights, including a loss at a contested Baron.

"But X, Y, and Zed are bad! They don't know what they are doing; One guy didn't have good masteries!" Doesn't matter. Because the enemy team still played worse, no matter how bad you think they are. And really, one guy not having a bonus 58 health from Juggernaut doesn't lose games.

missouMar 19, 20153 votes

17.6k gold advantage means what? Every player in the game had 6 items.

Obviously the gameplay was absolutely atrocious. That goes without saying. But I don't have the game replay on hand to analyze.

By your shitty logic, things like runes, masteries, and builds are irrelevant because the enemy team always simply played worse if they were behind.

If it were just one guy with shitty masteries and that was it, I would agree. That doesn't mean much in one game. But if every single member of a team has a shitty build and unoptimal runes/masteries, that has repercussions. If you think having zero Last Whispers and zero Armor Penetration on a full AD team one hour into a game is irrelevant, your understanding of the game is really lacking. And to be a dick about it, judging from your rank, I'm not wrong at all.

Sona PingMar 19, 20152 votes

Oh excuse, I guess I need to be clearer for you. 17.6k gold advantage, 5+ Dragons and 3 inhibitors.

The 17.6k gold advantage is a really obvious sign of how much better the blue team was playing that I mentioned because of how obvious a sign it is and how you should've used it as a sign to look deeper. If you would've taken a deeper look at the match rather than looking for opportunities to be a jackass to the OP, you would see that at that time, they had that huge gold advantage, the enemy wasn't full build, the enemy didn't have those thornmails, and the blue team, again, had multiple dragons and inhibitors. So it is relevant.

And FYI: I don't play Ranked. I tried it briefly but it's not worth my time to deal with the pricks that are rampant there who have no game knowledge, and play worse than who I get matched with in normals. The kind of prick I'm being reminded of now for some reason.

missouMar 19, 20153 votes

Look deeper at the match? The OP explicitly stated "There was NO reason for us to lose that." I picked out problem after problem. Pointed out build mistakes, mastery mistakes, rune mistakes, trinket mistakes, playstyle mistakes.

No shit they hit full build before the enemy team. If I say "17.6k gold advantage means nothing when everyone has 6 items," then I'm pretty clearly referring to the point in the game when "everyone has 6 items," not prior to that.

I pointed out MANY mistakes that contributed to their being unable to close out the game before things reached that point - team comp, weak frontline, lack of initiation, lack of team synergy, everyone farming instead of grouping.

Are you going to ignore all of that in favor of discussing 17.6k gold?

I'll propose a different reason you don't play ranked. You tried it, weren't successful, got frustrated, and gave up.

Teams that play worse than the people you get in normals? Well yeah. You were in low ELO. You grind past them into high ELO and things reverse. You get pricks who have ridiculous game knowledge and play better than almost anyone you can meet in normals. You gave up before you got there, because you met no immediate success. If you had 90% winrate in ranked and carried all your teams, I guarantee you would have kept going with it into high ELO, irritating teams or not.

EDIT: Checked S4 ranked stats. What do you know? 9 wins and 23 losses. 28% winrate. How unexpected. I'm sure it was your heavy teams, and had nothing to do with you.

Magus PolarisMar 21, 20151 votes

Holy wow, you are so insecure. You should probably give up on forums if you are affected this much by getting called out on a bad argument.

DEADLIFEMar 21, 20152 votes

From my standpoint, it's the OP that's insecure. There were so many things that he and his team did wrong that have been pointed out in this thread. Instead of acknowledging them, the OP just complained that the post was too harsh.

OnwodoriMar 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No reason to lose? You're all AD, have no strong initiators, have a weak frontline, have no knockups for Yasuo, have no teleport on your team, don't have a single member on your team with proper build+trinket, and reached a point in the game where gold leads are irrelevent because everyone is full build.

Full AD, not a SINGLE last whisper. Not a single member on your team with ANY armor pen in build whatsoever. You went IE on Twitch without a single crit item. Noone on your team has Sweeper or Farsight. Your entire team has ~400 CS or higher, meaning you were all solo farming the majority of the game, despite being full build.

You never bought an Elixir, despite being full build for over 20 minutes. You have one of the worst rune pages I've ever seen. Your Yasuo was 30/0/0, taking AP masteries.

Closing out games? That's definitely not the main issue you need help with, if you can somehow sit through over an hour of that kind of garbage and still believe there was no reason for your team to lose.

Do you have a constructive way of saying that?

missouMar 20, 20152 votes

No. Take from it what you will.

OnwodoriMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No. Take from it what you will.

Methinks you far too severe, my friend.

missouMar 20, 20151 votes

Methinks you made a thread asking what you were missing and received a very blunt answer, my friend.

OnwodoriMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Methinks you made a thread asking what you were missing and received a very blunt answer, my friend.

Know the difference between 'blunt' and 'abusive'.

missouMar 21, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Fledgling,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=XcyAfml3,comment-id=000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-20T22:23:51.684+0000)

Know the difference between 'blunt' and 'abusive'.

I know it. Do you need me to use kiddie talk? Okay.

Your team's builds were questionable. Your runes are iffy. Your Yasuo's masteries are a little strange.

Is that clearer?

rth2Mar 20, 20151 votes

I'll elaborate a little from what I've seen in the thread so far. I elaborated a little more on build paths earlier lots of the other points make sense but I'll paraphrase.

No strong initiator - The only person who can really init for you is , and that is by walking forward and pulling. Not the strongest. Whereas on their team is about the same as , replace pull with iceball. can dive in with her ult. can get a cage. can ult. can ult.
No knockup for yasuo - He can only jump in off of the pull. In a teamfight situation their squishies have to walk into it or he has to do a coordinated play and hope it pans out. Not reliable for .
No teleport - is not necessary, but it does mean that they can have more map pressure whenever is available. Your team can more easily be split. If storms down a lane someone has to deal with the wave. When they do this, can across the map to take an objective with the team; whereas your team can not. This means your team has to play the minion wave / pressure game really well to make up for not having and whoever laned against ( ) needed to get kills with their so they could exert that pressure themselves. Looks like the first 20 minutes that match-up went 2-2. So he didn't really snowball off of his ignite.

We talked about build a little earlier. The trinket thing, nobody upgraded their trinket besides you. That's an issue on both teams. Also, when you have extra gold that late in the game, remember to purchase an elixer. That extra gold in your pocket won't do anything for you when you are full build. Elixers are also good for temporary power spikes if you know something big is going to happen. Sitting at base about to go do baron? Grab yourself an elixer if you can. This makes you that much stronger for a pivotal fight. (Don't blue pill for it if you guys are in position, but if the timing presents itself and it is a pivotal moment, grab one. Don't set your build behind, but don't be afraid to spend 400g to not lose baron).

Closing out the game - This is the hard one to answer. If you guys had an early advantage than despite the gold difference, despite the items, masteries, runes, and other stats, this question is hard to answer. Missou mentioned it before, but he doesn't have a replay to analyze. We don't know why you lost a fight, we just know that you lost it. Getting replays of your matches and looking at pivotal moments can help.

Did I position poorly so I couldn't get much damage off without being killed?
Did a fight start and I failed to notice it in time to make a big contribution?
Did I stay for 1 too many minion waves and get ganked / miss a fight/ etc...
Were there times I thought I was safe but really we all of our vision just fell down and I wasn't / didn't notice it disappear from the map in time?
Did I make mistakes in lane / jungle?
Did I fail to capitalize on something?
The list can go on for a very long time.

With the information given from match histories we know just that. History. We know what the outcome was, we know some pivotal times (someone mentioned a failed baron fight) but we don't know what circumstances (positioning, vision, etc...) happened directly before that which may have played a key role in that fights outcome.

Remember, reviewing a match on film will be a lot more accurate than reviewing a match from your memory. Hell, I linked a VOD for a support main the other day demonstrating a game where I played an odd support ( JarvanIV ) in gold or plat. Just watching that video again, where we forced an early surrender, I noticed tons of mistakes I made. Though I certainly remembered myself playing stronger it was easy to point out the mistakes after I gave me time to forget / emotionally detach from the match and watched it again.

Hopefully this helps you out a little bit. Good luck Fledgling.

novo amorMar 21, 20152 votes

That looked pretty constructive to me...That's a lot of really bad mistakes he pointed out.

OnwodoriMar 19, 20151 votes

So something or other happened here while I was gone.

I certainly wasn't trying to be over confident or indignant about a loss. I just didn't understand why or how we lost ... Certainly not blaming it on my team or I myself claiming to be very skillful. I want to know what I personally could have done better.

Angry MonsterMar 21, 20151 votes

Why are you fighting the people helping you. Blunt advice is usually the best advice. They are being clear blunt and to the point; and your mad how the msg is delivered? I mean really? Missou went pretty deep in logic. You as a bronze player are trying to argue with a diamond player why you loss, when you are asking FOR HELP.

If you want someone to pat you on the back when you do bad do not ask for advice on what went wrong.