mix of health + armor yellows or 9 armor yellows?

Dies to Wolves·May 1, 2015·3 votes·621 views

against AD champions, if looking for early aggression; I've seen people mixing them (like 4 armor + 5 flat hp yellows or vice versa). What do you say?

11 Comments

junglerboy16May 1, 20152 votes

Mixing it up for a lane matchup is always worth a shot in order to maximize your effective health. Going 4 armor and 5 flat health gives you +4 armor and +40 HP.

Doing the math as someone with generic level 1 stats, Maokai, with those runes your effective physical damage health increases by 75.96 at level 1 (up to 156.132 with masteries).

with 9x armor, your effective PDH increases by 51.48 at level 1 (up to 131.452 with masteries).

with 9x health, your effective PDH increases by 92.66 at level 1 (up to 172.996 with masteries).

So based exclusively on the amount of damage you can take before you die, flat health is actually just a hair better than mixing armor and health, which are actually both better than flat armor. However, if the champion you are playing has a large amount of regen or other health sustain (like Garen, Maokai, Mundo, or Nasus) taking the armor gives you higher effective health over time because the armor multiplies the effectiveness of their sustain more than having higher base health.

Dies to WolvesMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Mixing it up for a lane matchup is always worth a shot in order to maximize your effective health. Going 4 armor and 5 flat health gives you +4 armor and +40 HP.

Doing the math as someone with generic level 1 stats, Maokai, with those runes your effective physical damage health increases by 75.96 at level 1 (up to 156.132 with masteries).

with 9x armor, your effective PDH increases by 51.48 at level 1 (up to 131.452 with masteries).

with 9x health, your effective PDH increases by 92.66 at level 1 (up to 172.996 with masteries).

So based exclusively on the amount of damage you can take before you die, flat health is actually just a hair better than mixing armor and health, which are actually both better than flat armor. However, if the champion you are playing has a large amount of regen or other health sustain (like Garen, Maokai, Mundo, or Nasus) taking the armor gives you higher effective health over time because the armor multiplies the effectiveness of their sustain more than having higher base health.

assuming I start cloth + 5 pots, is still enough sustain to make the flat armor runes better? Or is the armor from cloth enough to increase my effective HP with flat health runes more than with armor?

thanks for the input btw!

junglerboy16May 1, 20152 votes

I would think cloth 5 gives enough sustain to make a flat armor start worth it, but I don't have the math worked out yet, I'll reply again once I've checked the numbers.

Dies to WolvesMay 1, 20151 votes

thanks a lot, man!

junglerboy16May 1, 20152 votes

Ok, using Maokai again for consistency sake, here is the control where he has full masteries (assuming 21 defense) and started cloth 5, also not counting stuff like his own HP5 or passive:

2019.35 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Now, with flat armor seals:

2141.57 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Now, with flat health seals:

2126.41 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Now, with mixed seals (4 armor, 5 health):

2134.75 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Basically, the more sustain you add in, the more flat armor begins to surpass flat health, with mixed seals being roughly in the middle depending on how much sustain you have. As the game goes on though, the armor becomes more effective (especially with per level growth added in), but only against physical damage. Mixed seals provide roughly the same bonus as flat armor, however, they are better for situations where your lane opponent is a strong AD (like Pantheon) but their team also has a lot of magic damage (like from a roaming AP mid laner). If they are all mostly AD, flat armor is the way to go. If they are mixed, mixed seals offer better total effective health.

Also, keep in mind that Maokai has high base armor and health because he is a tank, on a squishier champion bringing Cloth 5 will give much more effective PDH with the flat armor start than the health one, but will also be notably squishier to non-AD champions than with health seals or mixed seals.

Dies to WolvesMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok, using Maokai again for consistency sake, here is the control where he has full masteries (assuming 21 defense) and started cloth 5, also not counting stuff like his own HP5 or passive:

2019.35 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Now, with flat armor seals:

2141.57 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Now, with flat health seals:

2126.41 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Now, with mixed seals (4 armor, 5 health):

2134.75 total effective PDH after using all 5 pots at level 1

Basically, the more sustain you add in, the more flat armor begins to surpass flat health, with mixed seals being roughly in the middle depending on how much sustain you have. As the game goes on though, the armor becomes more effective (especially with per level growth added in), but only against physical damage. Mixed seals provide roughly the same bonus as flat armor, however, they are better for situations where your lane opponent is a strong AD (like Pantheon) but their team also has a lot of magic damage (like from a roaming AP mid laner). If they are all mostly AD, flat armor is the way to go. If they are mixed, mixed seals offer better total effective health.

Also, keep in mind that Maokai has high base armor and health because he is a tank, on a squishier champion bringing Cloth 5 will give much more effective PDH with the flat armor start than the health one, but will also be notably squishier to non-AD champions than with health seals or mixed seals.

that's very informative, thanks a lot, dude!

AMYS GRAVEMay 1, 20151 votes

4+5 maximizes your effective health without items, but 9 armour is worth more gold and if you buy even a few pots you are ahead in effective health that way.

i go 9 armour.

EndlessSorcererMay 1, 20151 votes

I like using health seals and 1 armor quint, personally.

Drunk RummateMay 1, 20151 votes

Before the rune rework 9 armor yellows would give you the same armor as 4 armor yellows do now.

Personally what I like to do is run 4 armor yellows to reach that same point, and then fill the last 5 seals in with something else useful. Usually I take scaling armor yellows because they outscale past level 6, but mana regen seals also aren't bad.

junglerboy16May 1, 20151 votes

actually, its the opposite. Armor yellows got nerfed, from I think 13.5 total to only 9 total, so 5 used to give almost as much as 9 do now.

Drunk RummateMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

actually, its the opposite. Armor yellows got nerfed, from I think 13.5 total to only 9 total, so 5 used to give almost as much as 9 do now.

They buffed the base armor of all champions to compensate. Flat runes give less, scaling runes give more, and 4 armor seals get you equivalent of 9 armor seals pre rework due to the base stat buffs.