PSA: Support Role

K54·Feb 16, 2015·1 votes·876 views

Post Note: (but I'm putting it at the beginning because I'm cool that)

The point of this post has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHAMPIONS AT ALL! I'm talking about the people (humans like you and me) who are controlling these supports that sit under the turret or hide in the brush behind you, only to pop out and buff/heal you as you're retreating. They're a good 200 range behind me and minions at all times.

We're not talking about the champions. The champions are irrelevant honestly. To reiterate so you and the rest of these simple people can understand, I'm saying if you're "scared" to take damage (obviously the reason they're trying to buff/heal me from maximum spell range) then they should switch to a tank champion like Taric/Braum and just soak up damage because that's the only use they are to me.

Sona, Janna, Soraka... all come with harass tactics. And Soraka definitely has to because if she's spam healing, that means she's spam draining her health so she needs to step up and land a few Qs.

ORIGINAL POST BELOW

I can't speak for everybody else, but I know when I'm bottom lane ADC/APC nothing pisses me off more than a support who stands behind me, waiting to heal me. Very annoying! Especially if we're up against a meta breaking bottom lane.

I've bottom laned against these following combos &
& & & & &

These have all been in Team Builder and coincidentally, I've gotten the scared to poke support every time. My all stood behind me, horribly missing all their skills shots and AoE spells. Meaning I was the target of every melee's dash/teleport burst damage. Which was even more irritating with Wukong's cloan and Akali's smoke screen, cause I really didn't have a way to target them back. After these "troll" teams hit level 6, they just steamrolled!

So now I only accept tank supports. The only exceptions to this rule are champions with a heal, shield, ally buff, lock on hard CC or hard CC that ignores minions.

32 Comments

The ChinFeb 16, 20158 votes

this is not a PSA, this is just a misguided rant.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

You do know PSA stands for Public Service Announcement, right? lol

OnegarionFeb 16, 20153 votes

yes and this is a personal rant. There is no service done here at all.

Deep Terror NamiFeb 16, 20153 votes

His point would likely be that you aren't serving the public in any way...

Deep Terror NamiFeb 16, 20156 votes

As a Support main, I have something you should hear;

If your lane partner does not feel comfortable being aggressive, do not try to force them to. You will only succeed in making them play poorly and go on tilt. Work with them, not against.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

The support should fit the ADCs style, not the other way around. When I'm playing support, I always ask my ADC what their plan of attack is and how they want to go about it.

I just used Nami to support a Jinx against a Vayne and . My Jinx told me she wasn't comfortable with Nami's buff since it just gives bonus AP damage on basic. I also told her that the way I think Jinx should be used is to rocket blast the minion close to ADC, she was uncomfortable with that due to Blitzcrank, even though I told her my W (ebb and flow) would keep her alive and damage the enemy (which it did). So our whole success evolved around me being able to land my Q on Vayne. Do you know how hard it is land that on ms tumbly? Nonetheless, we got it done.

And I have no problem with them because I was SUPPORTING! her play style, which is what a support is supposed to do. So I think I should get to choose how aggressive or not aggressive my support is if I'm ADC.

Deep Terror NamiFeb 16, 20154 votes

I'm talking about either role, ADC or Support. Your lane is only as good as the worst person in it, so doing your best to not put that person in a situation they aren't ready to handle will go a lot farther to winning lane. I main Nami so yes, I understand how difficult a dashing champion can be to pin down with Aqua Prison (no more difficult than anyone else if you wait for it to be on CD, or use Tidal Wave first).

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

Let's say you do your R, follow up with your Q, use your E on Jinx and proc your W so she can handle the exchange healing her for 320 health and dealing 430 health damage to Vayne . Without a doubt that Vayne is obliterated if she would have fired 2 measly rockets! 2 ROCKET SHOTS FROM A CHAMP WITH 100% health would have killed Vayne. I also still had my exhaust so we could take out Blitz immediately after.

SHE DIDN'T ENGAGE AT ALL! I pinged Vayne twice before I used my ult. Are you saying, I don't have the right to be a little irritated in that situation? Vayne got 3 early kills cause our jungler kept seeing her trying to recall with less than 200 health and was diving her under turret, raging at us. To which I said, you don't have to get the kill, a recall means free farm and turret damage.

Tell me where I'm wrong? I'm wrong because I'm a human who has emotions so he certain things make him feel a certain way?

Deep Terror NamiFeb 16, 20153 votes

Nothing I have said was referring to your special ADC situation.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

What you people don't understand is that every time I make a post, IT'S TO SPECIFY a SPECIFIC situation that I've SPECIFICALLY experienced.

Deep Terror NamiFeb 16, 20153 votes

And my post wasn't directed at you alone, but I'm not going to get mad over it like you are.

KougaFeb 16, 20152 votes

Well you tried to make a rational argument but sometimes you just can't win. Ramming one's head against a brick wall unfortunately does not bother the offending wall.

KougaFeb 16, 20151 votes

And what you, person, don't understand is that making a post about a specific experience is not indicative, in any way, shape, or form the overall League balance or condition. Anecdotal evidence of "This one time" don't actually help because it really doesn't apply to anyone else except you.

You sound extremely annoying to play with and I think you should be more cooperative with your teammates.

DMouseslayerFeb 16, 20151 votes

In my wood 7 experience, supports are usually the ones who decide what happens in bot lane. ADC and support are basically the only roles that can end up great going into mid game 0/0/0, so passive lanes aren't bad lanes, just passive.

Kill lanes are more fun, but if you're playing for the win, passive can be a winning strategy. 15-20 CS is the same gold as a kill. I'd rather my ADC be 0/0/0 with 100 CS at 10 minutes than risk being 0/5/0 with 50 CS.

Let your support decide how you play rather than you decide how your support plays. Really the only time you have imput in basically anything is the general theme of the bot lane, and that's decided at champion select. I'm not going to be super aggressive if you have Kog'Maw or Vayne. Just like I'm not going to be passive if you have Caitlyn or Jinx. Yeah, if I see an easy kill and I'm with a Vayne, I'll go for it. But I'm not going to unless its like 95% chance of a kill.

Add in the fact that those meta breaking bot lanes up there would be completely ruined and have a basically useless troll pick if they go into the mid game 0/0/0, passive is sometimes the BEST way to go. Have you ever seen a Talon do good if they don't have a kill or assist before level 6? Can Akali do anything other than be annoying with her shroud if she doesn't get a kill or two around level 6? Same with Xin, Kat, and Wukong. They need kills to be viable.

Whereas Kayle can heal, slow, and make you invulnerable. Sona has a massive stun, heals, and great utility. Morgana has snare, shield, and a multi targetable stun. Their kits don't require gold to be useful. Shunpo is USELESS without AP. If Talon has no damage he can't assassinate. Supports are supports because their useful at supporting. Basically anything other than true support champions going botlane is just another laner who needs gold, who's only change in play style is not CSing and buying a sightstone. That's it. You can shut them down and make a 5v5 into a 5v4 just by being passive.

That's just my opinion though.

TsundayFeb 16, 20151 votes

Actually actually actually it is the exact opposite way around and more so the higher elo you get. The support plays to their ADC a bit but the way they play to their ADC is "I'm landing hooks on Soraka and Lucian isn't going in, maybe I should use my flay passive on her a couple times and then Death Leap and Flay her back so that she's closer to Lucian and has lower HP" not "My Lucian has been sitting here farming for the last 10 minutes and even though their Caitlyn is beating him in farm he doesn't seem to want to bully them so I'll sit here and play passive".

The support should fit the ADCs style

In order for a solo queue lane to work they both need to synergize at the same time the ADC should always be the one playing to their support.

Why?

Because the support is the one required to set up the plays and the ADC should never be the one to go in first provided normal 2v2 circumstances. The support is the one who should set up the play (unless you have a death wish for the ADC) because you don't want the guy who has all the damage to be taking the minion aggro. You want the one who has the utility to take the minion aggro as if they're the ones who die in the fight it's less detrimental than if the ADC dies. An ADC might poke without their support initiating but if the support never sets up plays, doesn't land good bindings, good hooks, good silences, good polys, slows, bubbles-- you shouldn't be getting any kills in lane.

So basically the ADC should look to their support in this regard. Is my support overly aggressive and charging in with her Zenith Blade every 6 seconds? I should pick up the kill or otherwise ping mia at river and tell her to wait for the enemies to push or for us to get better vision. Is my support a passive defensive support like Janna? If she hooks them with a tornado I should poke them a bit, otherwise I shouldn't think about going in.

It's the flash Tibbers, the Solar Flare, the well timed Dark Binding that wins you a trade and as such the support should do something of that sort to set up an engage for their ADC. the ADC should be the one playing to these engages and therefore the ADC's playing should fit the Support's style. The ADC only gets a real choice in champion select where if their support picks someone like Leona they can say 'Hey Leona I'm not really comfortable playing so aggressive can you pick a different support' and if they say no (or if it's teambuilder) your botlane is pretty much suboptimal anyway because you guys pretty much have two different views on the subject (and in teambuilder you just find a new support/team)

And I have no problem with them because I was SUPPORTING! her play style, which is what a support is supposed to do.

Not really. A support is supposed to control the flow of a teamfight with their CC, Peel, and Utility (including Ally Sustain and Buffs). A support can 100% ditch their ADC after laning if they feel like they won't get anything out of helping them. If I have a 5/0 Ahri and a 1/1 Jinx who blantenly missed her last hits I'm focusing on keeping Ahri alive and then if I have peel/heals leftover I'll turn on who jumps on you and flank them. It's only my job to protect that ADCarry because they're the ones who are doing all the damage, if you're not doing the DPS I don't need to play to your style at all because I am THE TEAM's support NOT the ADC's support.

So I think I should get to choose how aggressive or not aggressive my support is if I'm ADC.

Naw a lot of supports can only play to a certain level of passivity or aggression because of their kits (a Leona with a passive ADC is pretty useless and Soraka with an overly aggressive ADC who lacks the damage to 1v2 is also pretty useless). If you're support-- playing the role of basically the ADC's guardian or mother for 20 minutes, and you give up your authority as mother it doesn't mean that other parental figures should give up their maternal authorities because you think a good parent lets the kid be in charge. That's what a start game ADC is, a little kid. They're item dependent, champions who need to be fed gold to grow into a monster. You play to that specific carry's power spikes in terms of aggression (Corki has a pretty strong level 2 whereas Cait doesn't really gain as much from her Level 2, therefore if you were Leona with a Corki you would for sure want to go in level 2 for the kill but if you were with the Cait you might start E or try to melee Q from a bush or wait until you get your shield level 3 and Cait has poked them down before you go in) but your ADC doesn't get to look at you playing Blitzcrank and say 'I like my Supports to play passive, kay?'

TsundayFeb 16, 20152 votes

GG man for not accepting Janna. Or we could mention how Thresh isn't technically a tank? I guess you'd rather have a Leona diving into a Wukong Clone under turret instead of OP Soraka heals though.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

Read it again. My exceptions were an example of true supports. Janna is a true support, she's totally accepted.

TsundayFeb 16, 20151 votes

Sona has hard cc that ignore minions and a shield and a heal with an ally buff. Soraka has hard cc that ignores minions (Rio's definition of hard cc is something that stops a channel the fact that her E cancels Kat's ult without needing the snare delay classifies it as hard cc) and she has plenty of heals. Morgana has a shieldnand hard cc that locks on/ignores minions. You listed 3 supports to complain about 'standing behind you' above when they fit your descriptions. Before you say they need all of them thresh has neither a heal nor an ally buff and is not a tank support.

So basically either you were saying that the supports you called useless above (I don't consider lux or Kayle supports at all) we're in fact acceptable support choices for you or you're saying thresh isn't an acceptable choice. If you're saying thresh isn't an acceptable choice then there is no reason to tell me to 'read it again'.

Not to mention Janna is actually the most passive support in the game. Soraka aims to aggressively heal with her As, if Janna tries to tornado someone without a planned all in and doesn't die (or lose her carry) for it the enemy team is brain dead.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

Sona, Janna, Soraka... all come with harass tactics. And Soraka definitely has to because if she's spam healing, that means she's spam draining her health so she needs to step up and land a few Qs.

TsundayFeb 16, 20151 votes

The point of this post has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHAMPIONS AT ALL

Actually it does:

So now I only accept tank supports. The only exceptions to this rule

What the conclusion of this post implies is that if I joined a teambuilder queue with a support that doesn't fit your definition of a support even if they are classified as a support you're going to make me wait in queue longer because my perfectly fine support doesn't match your definition. Not that you apparently know what an ADCarry is since you openly admitted that you played ADCasters like Jayce in the ADCarry role.

I'm saying if you're "scared" to take damage (obviously the reason they're trying to buff/heal me from maximum spell range) then they should switch to a tank champion like Taric/Braum and just soak up damage because that's the only use they are to me.

Actually that's the exact opposite of what they should do. I have a friend that I got to join league with me last May. We had art class together and I was showing her a lot of Riot's art. She'd never played a moba before and pretty much stuck to playing the girls with cute splasharts/in game models. Those almost all happen to be botlaners and mages. I told her she might like Braum the other day (to which she said he was ugly and she wouldn't play him) so I bought her Braum and forced her to play Braum for me on teambuilder (to which she complained the whole champion select about how she had to play ugly Braum). She didn't even play Leona at the time. I'm talking Morgana, Nami, Caitlyn, Soraka, Sona player here. Cute Squishy girls who try to not take any damage. That is how she tried to play Braum. She didn't want to get into melee range, she ran back when she was attacked, at one point we both agreed to dive and so she takes the first shot of turret aggro, I rocket jump in and even though she still has practically full HP she freaks out about the idea of dying and leaves turret range before I could get a reset on my jump.

If you're scared to take damage, playing a champion that is good at taking damage doesn't make you any less scared to take it. Champions who rely on soaking up damage to be useful to you, will actually be less useful played by the passive players you don't like because they have very little poke making them champions that need to want to tank damage to be useful.

I'm saying if you're "scared"

The reason all the support mains are downvoting you is because you've made a post bitching about off meta enemy picks and supports that aren't really supports at all and you're trying to PSA it. If you're consistently getting supports that are playing that far behind you then you either have Wood 7 MMR or you're sitting way too far up in lane for the lane your playing against.

wwwdotsFeb 16, 20152 votes

tank support are just as useless as the oens you've mentioned with the concept of hiding behind me lmao

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

You need to tell those kitties to get some lion heart lmao

No reason a Braum, Maokai, Blitzcrank, Nunu, Sejuani, Leona, Shen, Nasus, Garen, Volibear, Taric, Darius, Nautilus, Alistar, Cho'gath, Malphite, Jarvan, Thresh, Wukong, Pantheon, should be standing behind you.

I'm ok with Galio playing backside because of Bulwark and long spell range.

I also don't mind sharing lane with mages like Annie, Brand, Lux, Morgana, Cassiopeia, Fiddlesticks, Lissandra, Malzahar, Oriana, Ryze, Syndra, Victor, Ziggs, Zyra, Zerath.

My thing is, if you're going to play the mage role, build like a mage. ADC/APC combo is fine by me, but don't build like a support/tank that does no damage if you're using Morgana. There were smarter options for that playstyle like Sona Soraka Nami Janna Lulu

OnegarionFeb 16, 20152 votes

I can't really describe how you don't understand supporting. Clearly showing that you are still in bronze, where no one knows how to do anything. For you trying to talk any sort of strategy you need a lot more than a fake PSA to get anyone to start listening.

Coming from a plat support main there is a lot more to it than your support should be in front of you. Most of those matchups are not good for healing and squishy supports. It would be best to wait until at least lvl 4, depending on comp, before you really try anything. I've done things like J4/Zed bot lanes and wrecked hard because people think that you can act normal because its an odd lane. There is almost always a reason people will do these lanes and 9.9/10 that reason is because its a great kill lane. Hell I've done Kalista / Yasuo and once we hit 6 there was no coming back for them. You clearly don't know your matchups and need to figure it out before you want to hand out advice.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

I clearly said this was team builder. You have no idea who you are matched up against before you the match starts. Believe me, I have no problems in bottom lane when it comes to ranked matches.

As for being bronze, I've played a total of 37 matches and won 22 of them. Record = 22wins 15losses. That's roughly a 70% win rate. I'm perfectly fine in ranked matches. I go to team builder to experiment, just like everybody else. Nonetheless, even when you're not playing ranked, you have to bring some common sense with you. I could solo bottom lane against a Kalista Yasuo duo with a KogMaw or Urgot . I can literally just poke them until my jungler comes and be perfectly fine. But any meta bottom with half intelligent players can stop that. If you want to bring that comp to a 2v2, I'll show you how OP any marksman is with a good support like Braum Taric Galio Alistar Soraka Sona Zyra etc etc.

Don't know if you've ever looked at any league tournaments for any season, but in every team fight, the difference is made with the tank and support.

OnegarionFeb 16, 20151 votes

What does any of this have to do with your original topic? You complain about supports not knowing how to play and then talk about how you can hold your own...in bronze!?!? Like really? Have a good W/L in bronze means nothing because you are bronze. ALso holding your own means NOTHING in bronze. Its really not hard to do that. I don't even need an adc to stomp bronze lvl bot lanes. Its ridiculously easy.

Don't come here trying to change the subject of what you can do with a lane when your initial comments where how you hate playing these lanes with a support who isn't in front of you. Stay on the topic at hand that you came here with your fake PSA. If you want to change topics fine, but don't disregard what I said just to attempt to prove your point when you have no credibility behind you.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

Only with those specific champs who's abilities let them farm and harass from ridiculous range. I could use Kog, Urgot or Corki every match, but it just wouldn't be fun honestly.

KapparothFeb 16, 20151 votes

Is it just me, or do all ADCs in Solo Q despise their supports and vice-versa?

BluePolarizerFeb 16, 20152 votes

wait till you main jungle.

FIRST BLOOD! An ally has been slain.

"Nub jg report" "I'm still at red" "ALL: No gank nub jg gg afk"

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

I do, 13 or 14 of my 22 wins are jungle. That's all I've been doing. I'm a bronze player right now, I jungle because nobody updates their trinket at level 9, so I play jungler, have my 3 stealth wards and a vision ward on the map with teleport so I can give my team vision of other ganking spots so we can all have more map awareness. One of my biggest pet peeves is when middle lane on has 1 ward. Too many places for a gank to come from.

TsundayFeb 16, 20151 votes

As a support main even I despise my supports in Solo Q. Seriously wtf I had a guy take my support role the other game (even though he didn't main supp) bought a relic shield and then refused to use the procs. In a 35 minute game he got 11cs. :( I lost cs because he was standing near him and thought he was going to take them though.

As a support main I don't normally mind my ADCs. I had one recently who didn't leash and instead went to 1v2 level 1 by their tower instead. I despised this Ashe a lot and then she turned around and blamed the game on me and the noob jungler :/ but like you can suck at ADCing, you can be down 20 farm, you can not be the best at skillshots, I don't even care. As long as you don't do stupid shit like engage when I'm not there, tower dive without letting me take the aggro, stand in the middle of lane typing while the enemy AAs you etc. Honestly that shit doesn't even happen often people don't do those for the most part. I don't care if my ADC carries, I just want him to do well and not feed. If late game he doesn't do damage because he doesn't know how to ADC well I will still peel for him when I can but I will focus on peeling for our fed Ahro instead. It's like whatever you gotta do what you gotta do. No need to hate if you aren't feeding and you're trying your best.

AikidoLawnNinjaFeb 16, 20151 votes

I can understand where the TC is coming from. I have a friend who "mains" Support (by which I mean he's so often last pick that he always gets stuck playing Support). He plays Soraka, Ashe, and Malphite. Yup. And he seems to think that the Support's job is to hide in brush or under the turret while the ADC gets crapped on, and then "tag in" to fight 2v1 when the ADC is inevitably killed. Every. Single. Time. It never even crosses his mind that he can do stuff WITH the ADC while they're both in lane. He just hangs back and waits for his turn to die.

It doesn't matter whether he's playing a healer (Soraka), a tank (Malphite), or a poker (Ashe). He'll still follow the same game plan of "let the ADC get 2v1'd until he's dead, then take my time to shine!". He's just a bad player. I'm not entirely sure how the MMR-to-pick-order ratio works, but I've often read that the pick order generally gives preference from highest-to-lowest MMR. If that's the case, then the chances of your team's worst player being forced to support are pretty great.

K54Feb 16, 20151 votes

Read your guys' comments about pick order and it seems random to me. I've queued with the exact same people 3 times in a row (enemy summoner didn't select a player) and each time we were all in different spots of pick order, top to 3rd, 2nd to 4th, last to 1st.

The only person who understands this post is AikidoLawnNinja (thought I don't know what TC is) and reiterated what I was saying perfectly. A nami is no good if she's not dishes out some Q and Ws. A Soraka is no good if you're taking damage from 2 champs thinking her level 4 heal 3 minutes into the match is going to save my life.

What I'm saying is, if you're going to be completely useless to me, pick a champ like Braum Alistar DrMundo Shen Rammus JarvanIV Volibear , build hybrid health/defense items ( item 3143 item 3068 item 3065 with a item 3083 and just keep your useless ass between me and the enemy ADC at all times lol