Is getting AP runes good for waveclear?( Instead of magic pen )

MLDzXnRRR·Jun 2, 2015·1 votes·1,116 views

Do normal minions have MR in the start of the game?

17 Comments

GenuwhineJun 2, 20151 votes

yes ap runes are better for waveclear pen hardly effects minions. BUT 9/10 times you want magic pen just learn to farm better

GenuwhineJun 2, 20151 votes

for instance some people take more ap on azir so they can just 2 shot the back minion line

pE4CbxDPQOJun 2, 20151 votes

Techinically yes, but its gonna gimp your mid game. And if you fall behind you wont do shit until you complete void staff at like 50 minutes.

El Condor PasaJun 2, 20151 votes

Minions don't have resistances unless promoted, is a super minion, or is under the effects of baron or super minion auras.

AwesomeChadJun 2, 20151 votes

depends on champion since the actual dmg you get from ap depends the ap ratio of the abilities. Also, flat magic penetration is still good if they don't have MR because that mpen will count towards a negative value which amplifies your magic dmg.

Dorans HatJun 2, 20151 votes

you know nothing about mpen

DreadPirateChrisJun 2, 20152 votes

No, he's right. If someone (or something in the case of minions) has zero magic resist and you apply mpen, you get a negative magic resist value that amplifies your magic damage. (Also true for armor pen vs. armor and physical damage). Of course things like void staff or last whisper are useless against no-defense enemies (30% of 0 is 0 after all), but for flat values it still has an effect.

Dorans HatJun 3, 20151 votes

No it doesn't. You're thinking of flat MR reduction, which is applied by abyssal scepter and fiddle's passive.

kanachoJun 3, 20152 votes

I think you are right about Magic and Armor Pen. As long as it's not % based, if they theoretically have 0 Armor/MR and you use flat pen against it, you should get bonus damage.

Youmuu's, or Brutalizer, or Sorc's shoes are a few examples. The thing is, it depends on the armor/mr values and AP scaling of the champ you pick.

Ark Angel HFBJun 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No, he's right. If someone (or something in the case of minions) has zero magic resist and you apply mpen, you get a negative magic resist value that amplifies your magic damage. (Also true for armor pen vs. armor and physical damage). Of course things like void staff or last whisper are useless against no-defense enemies (30% of 0 is 0 after all), but for flat values it still has an effect.

No he is very wrong... flat pen can only bring the stat to "0"

Magic "Reduction" can bring it negative.

Remember that it is %Magic Reduction, Then Flat Reduction, Then %MagicPen, Then Flat Pen.

Dorans HatJun 3, 20151 votes

Actually it's flat reduction before percent reduction. That's why you should never get abyssal and void staff.

Ark Angel HFBJun 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually it's flat reduction before percent reduction. That's why you should never get abyssal and void staff.

right you are...

Ark Angel HFBJun 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

depends on champion since the actual dmg you get from ap depends the ap ratio of the abilities. Also, flat magic penetration is still good if they don't have MR because that mpen will count towards a negative value which amplifies your magic dmg.

Sry you are wrong here... you are thinking of magic reduction. remember there is reduction, such as fid passive and abyssal, and then there is pen like the pen boots and runes.

Drunk RummateJun 2, 20151 votes

I think they removed MR from minions completely. So the short answer to your question would be yes, if you're using your abilities a lot to waveclear early on (usually gated by mana though).

THAT SAID: AP marks are really inefficient (like half the value of AP glyphs). Wouldn't recommend.

But if you're talking about Quints then AP is almost universally a better option than mpen.

TimothyJ222Jun 2, 20151 votes

I find Pen Marks and AP Quints are the best, and if I have an AD matchup I will actually run CDR on my Glyphs.

Drunk RummateJun 2, 20151 votes

You should try scaling AP glyphs out sometime. By level 6 you'll have an extra 10 AP, and by level 18 you get over 30 AP. For a lot of champions (like Ahri) the extra scaling AP can be the difference between 1 shotting caster minions or leaving them at 10 hp with your standard waveclear ability.

kanachoJun 3, 20151 votes

It's not so much about waveclear as it is about AP scaling, and the damage difference (particularly at low levels) with the champion you are referring to. You can look up the MR and Armor values of minions, the damage scaling that MR/Armor Pen bring, and the Scaling ratios for your champ to see what gives you the most damage

ORRRRR

Just test it in game and see what works better for you! Personally, an amplifying tome, or dorans ring can help a lot at the start for last hitting easier, but that depends on the champs I play.