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My opinions on TFT Set 2.

Tolinar··3 votes·3,476 views

One person. General Opinion. Here you go.

  1. Late light is ridiculously broken. It needs a nerf. The heal is too much and too wide.
  2. Healing is too prevalent on the early units. You either build self-heal or you build Morellonomicon or Red Buff, or you will lose early.
  3. Ocean sucks. It doesn't win at all. The units have very poor synergy compared to the other sets.

In terms of the Match Element bonuses, Ocean and Cloud are less strategically important than Inferno and Mountain. This is because -

  • Ocean units are a dime a dozen and have poor synergy, adding Qiyana basically gives you the option to focus on Qiyana which is ok.
  • Adding 30 mana to a unit at the start of the game is usually not worth the risk/complication of changing its position, the bonus is too insignificant.
  • Cloud is only important if you are playing Yasuo, in which case you can run Qiyana and enable early team dodge. Otherwise it's the same as Ocean, the dodge change is not worth the risk/complication of rearranging for it.
  • Inferno bonus is a major attackspeed increase, which not only builds damage but build MP charge speed and this is the kind of bonus you really want on your key unit. In addition, Inferno Qiyana is the second Inferno Assassin making it easier to sidespec into Assassin from Inferno and vice versa.
  • The stacking effect from Mountain can be a crucial lynchpin for a long term unit, in particular a high rank unit with good effect that you're not confident you can get to 3-star. A lucky pull, 2-star rank 3, or carousel 4 or 5-star are all good candidates for a Mountain slot even if it puts them a bit out of position, and it rewards forethought and insight. To add one more element, Mountain Qiyana can enable super early Mountain Set Bonus, which is a very big shield. [SIC: Mountain is the Best bonus for having a Good Game]

14 Comments

Tolinar3 votes

Let me back up my opinion a bit.

  • Light is broken

Wide light is virtually unbeatable unless you significantly outdraw it. What you do is get ahold of a 3-star or good 2-star Light card, dump a good item set on it, and then just buy single-copy fodder cards of all the other Light units while rushing Levelups.

It doesn't even matter which Light card you picked. Whether it's a 1 star rank 1, or a 1 star Rank 5 that dies, it applies the same bonus to all teammates. Once that bonus gets strong enough you'll survive the midgame. The 25% heal bonus and attackspeed boost raises damage and skill use, and all your units come online together.

Then you just draw light cards, letting your units hit 2 stars, until you topple everyone. It shouldn't work this good. But it does, because all the Light units are essentially Hyper Carries - any one of them can be the fulcrum of the team - and they have flawless synergy.

Nasus is a HP Tank. Building stall against a Nasus doesn't work. Vayne is a Tank Shredder. Building HP against a Vayne doesn't work. Jax is a Bruiser Killer. Building DPS against a Jax doesn't work. Aatrox is a Heavy Caster. Building Wide against an Aatrox doesn't work. Soraka is a Skill Jammer. Building Caster against a Soraka doesn't work. And Yorick emphasizes all the bonuses of the Light set by adding Even More Fodder to the table.

You basically have to run a high-star set that includes Morellonomicon or Red Buff in several places to dent this set. And with the Light item, it's possible to Promote any unit that is otherwise useful - a Nami, a Qiyana, whatever - to Light.

But the worst of it is, this set doesn't require any special skill to use effectively. As long as one unit has good items and is standing where they need to, the other units can die like dogs and power up the central characters. But the better you position your units, the further they'll all go.

In other words, the Light card set is just too strong collectively. There isn't a successful approach. You can't match the healing late, because Soraka will jam your healers. It's difficult to run Stun versus a Nasus that is going to kill you for standing nearby. You can't face-time the Jax, and you can't outnumber the Aatrox, and if Yorick gets on the table then whatever you WERE trying to do, just got harder.

With other sets, you have to figure out what kinds of advantages you have, and how to emphasize them. With light, you just don't need to.

RavageRose2 votes

Late light is suppose to scale, it requires early commitment and doesnt start off well. healing can be countered by poison and early game predator. Ocean is amazing with sum at all levels. cloud is also good with Jax. im not gonna sit here an counter everything you posted.

my point is simple... everything has a form and function and everything has a counter. thats why they made the unit synergies more flexible. they want you to be able to transition on the fly. some synergies dominate early game and still can be countered by others.

Tolinar2 votes

Ocean is NOT amazing with sum at all levels.

It's garbage. I've run Ocean every single time it's been drawn on the board, every time I have zero competition for my units, and every time I wash out 4th or 5th. I don't even have to lose to the light player when I play Ocean. Some guy running Electric Zoo or late Wood Druid can beat me.

Having 2 Wardens applies a wonderful, tiny bonus to the 2 Wardens that the enemy promptly either goes around or slaughters. I can Sidespec into Mystic and then Nami will do some work, but eventually I'll get shut down by the player who is running Morellonomicon or Red Buff and some kind of skill jamming - stun, glacial, Soraka, whatever.

It doesn't matter whether I sidespec into Mage or Warden. It just doesn't work.

RavageRose3 votes

all i am seeing is endless QQ and misunderstanding. its as simple as i stated, everything has a counter. I have had a game where my comp changed 7 times and placed 2nd from dead last. learn the specs...

Tolinar2 votes

It's not as simple as "you stated".

You can't see the bigger picture. Let me paint it for you.

Ocean's basically forced into one of two pigeonholes: Mage or Warden.

That's because** two of Ocean's units are Mages, and two are Wardens.**


The one-star Mage is a caster "tank" that relies on draining HP at melee range to be effective. If he doesn't get both sides of this exchange, constantly, then he won't be effective.

If he gets physical jammed, he won't be able to cast and he dies. If he gets magic jammed, he won't be able to cast and he dies. If there's a Soraka anywhere in the tri-state area, he won't be able to cast and he dies. If he gets crit to death, killed by blademaster spam, stun locked, frozen, stands on an Inferno patch, gets nibbled by Kindred, or the enemy has built a Trap Claw, Morellonomicon, or Red Buff, he won't be able to heal from casting and he dies.

And to add to his woes, because he's running HP steal, he has to outlevel his opponent. If he faces a higher star level unit, he dies. If he faces an equal-star level unit of a higher rank, he usually dies.

In other words, Vladimir is a weak-as-hell unit that gets outclassed by virtually every other Rank 1 healbot, and is really only useful for laughing at noobs and saying "But you didn't stop the Vladimir!"


Both of the Wardens are high HP frontliners who soak up damage. One deploys a shield and one sends out short-duration CC. Neither do a very good job of covering for the fragile caster "tank" that prefers to stand at melee range himself. You can build Warden, but if you do, there's no reason to buy Vladimir. He doesn't get the bonus and won't be protected by all the tough guys - he'll go around them and die. And if you buy seriously into Warden, then you get Ocean2 anyway, without needing to buy the other units.


Lastly there's Syndra. Syndra is a pretty good AOE splash mage. She gets better later, when her spheres often hit multiple targets. She's outclassed by Neeko, though. She doesn't synergize well with her teammates - Thresh will usually end up lanterning the frontline, and Nautilus is very unlikely to protect her from an Assassin. All too often she squeaks too close to the front and goes 'splat'. In fact, the shield tank Thresh is outclassed by Ivern, who has stronger long range shields, and the stun wall Nautilus is outclassed by Maokai who is manaless and can't be magic-jammed, and benefits from fighting ability-heavy teams.

Which by the way, is Ocean's Achilles Heel. The raw stats on all the Ocean units are tragic. Block their skills and they are done. Soraka alone beats Ocean. Nami's great - but anyone playing Mystic to deal with magic damage is going to want a Nami card. Or just anyone who wants to stuff a Rank 5 on their line.

In situations when Ocean is the arena element, you can run Ocean Qiyana. This gives you a pretty good assassin who skills slightly more often. But she doesn't work with the tanks and she won't protect Syndra or, should you reach her, Nami. And to make matters worse, both you and your enemy get a space with an immediate mana boost. In a situation where you are constantly generating mana slightly faster than your opponent, being able to start the match with a skill is a significant leg up for the enemy. If the Ocean tile is ANYWHERE but middle of line 2-3, center of the board, your opponent will benefit more than you do. If it's on the frontline, your tanks will waste it as theirs make use of it. If it's at the back, you risk assassins and have to walk into range anyway.

So, essentially, everything Ocean can do, Wood/Druid can do better. Earlier. Ironically the best way to play Ocean is to NOT play Ocean, to run the fewest possible Ocean units while getting the mana bonus you want.

You're best off stuffing an Ocean Lux on your backline and completely avoiding Ocean, if you want the Mana Boost.

RavageRose2 votes

{quoted}

It's not as simple as "you stated".

You can't see the bigger picture. Let me paint it for you.

Ocean's basically forced into one of two pigeonholes: Mage or Warden.

That's because** two of Ocean's units are Mages, and two are Wardens.**


The one-star Mage is a caster "tank" that relies on draining HP at melee range to be effective. If he doesn't get both sides of this exchange, constantly, then he won't be effective.

If he gets physical jammed, he won't be able to cast and he dies. If he gets magic jammed, he won't be able to cast and he dies. If there's a Soraka anywhere in the tri-state area, he won't be able to cast and he dies. If he gets crit to death, killed by blademaster spam, stun locked, frozen, stands on an Inferno patch, gets nibbled by Kindred, or the enemy has built a Trap Claw, Morellonomicon, or Red Buff, he won't be able to heal from casting and he dies.

And to add to his woes, because he's running HP steal, he has to outlevel his opponent. If he faces a higher star level unit, he dies. If he faces an equal-star level unit of a higher rank, he usually dies.

In other words, Vladimir is a weak-as-hell unit that gets outclassed by virtually every other Rank 1 healbot, and is really only useful for laughing at noobs and saying "But you didn't stop the Vladimir!"


Both of the Wardens are high HP frontliners who soak up damage. One deploys a shield and one sends out short-duration CC. Neither do a very good job of covering for the fragile caster "tank" that prefers to stand at melee range himself. You can build Warden, but if you do, there's no reason to buy Vladimir. He doesn't get the bonus and won't be protected by all the tough guys - he'll go around them and die. And if you buy seriously into Warden, then you get Ocean2 anyway, without needing to buy the other units.


Lastly there's Syndra. Syndra is a pretty good AOE splash mage. She gets better later, when her spheres often hit multiple targets. She's outclassed by Neeko, though. She doesn't synergize well with her teammates - Thresh will usually end up lanterning the frontline, and Nautilus is very unlikely to protect her from an Assassin. All too often she squeaks too close to the front and goes 'splat'. In fact, the shield tank Thresh is outclassed by Ivern, who has stronger long range shields, and the stun wall Nautilus is outclassed by Maokai who is manaless and can't be magic-jammed, and benefits from fighting ability-heavy teams.

Which by the way, is Ocean's Achilles Heel. The raw stats on all the Ocean units are tragic. Block their skills and they are done. Soraka alone beats Ocean. Nami's great - but anyone playing Mystic to deal with magic damage is going to want a Nami card. Or just anyone who wants to stuff a Rank 5 on their line.

In situations when Ocean is the arena element, you can run Ocean Qiyana. This gives you a pretty good assassin who skills slightly more often. But she doesn't work with the tanks and she won't protect Syndra or, should you reach her, Nami. And to make matters worse, both you and your enemy get a space with an immediate mana boost. In a situation where you are constantly generating mana slightly faster than your opponent, being able to start the match with a skill is a significant leg up for the enemy. If the Ocean tile is ANYWHERE but middle of line 2-3, center of the board, your opponent will benefit more than you do. If it's on the frontline, your tanks will waste it as theirs make use of it. If it's at the back, you risk assassins and have to walk into range anyway.

So, essentially, everything Ocean can do, Wood/Druid can do better. Earlier. Ironically the best way to play Ocean is to NOT play Ocean, to run the fewest possible Ocean units while getting the mana bonus you want.

You're best off stuffing an Ocean Lux on your backline and completely avoiding Ocean, if you want the Mana Boost.

you talk on an on and on, yet you only show you put yourself in a corner. you forget the other synergies and what they can do, not to mention you leave out the one single most OP champ, Nami. all you need for ocean to work is 2. you go for more, whatever, i hope you have a mage hat to put on a summoner, mainly malz, to increase the synergy. NAmi makes summoner stupidly powerful, and shadow scales tremendously as well. you can combine Nami and Yi for Mystic and work around that with shadow and Vlad or Thresh for your off ocean.

If you go Desert Ocean, an go Warden with Desert, you can shred your opponent. As i have STATED AN I WILL SAY IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, it is simple.... every unit and synergy has their strengths and weaknesses. what might counter your comp, would be demolished by desert ocean, or ocean mage sums. Stop focusing on the Ocean as a whole unit in itself. 2 helps all synergies along with it. hell i worked it into Posion comps with predator.

Ocean is at a good stand point, it can be worked into almost any comp an effective. Light is meant to be Powerful, it has the weakest early game and a mediocre mid game at best. When you hit 6, and get them all to at least level 2, thats where it kicks into drive, yet it is still countered by Poison, nami, and even a malphite. put on a morellos, red buff, or a morello annie, and its shut down pretty hard. hell Kha is a hard counter as he can 1 shot the minions at lv 1. a lv 2 Kha will decimate light single handily.

One last time, you are focusing to much on one unit as a whole, an not getting the point that you are meant to have multiple unit synergies. Light usually builds berserk or mystic, which can co-enside with nami ocean comps. or even shadow mystic yi comp for pure dmg. there is soooo much you can do this season.

Deimcariuss1 votes

Mage is FUCKING GARBAGE. All there is to it. Broken coding ftl.

ChroIIo Lucilfer2 votes

I feel your pain on this LIGHT is extremely broken late game....I really just had to watch myself lose a game when I was at 73HP to a 15HP Light/Avatar. I almost broke my flimsy laptop screen but held in the anger
[sg-shisa]

Brolando2 votes

I think I'm gonna have to disagree with Ocean being useless.

I know that what I have here is really nutty, but even before my comp reached the point of ridiculousness the 2 Ocean wardens + 3 mages of which 2 Ocean carried me through early game and kept me alive during mid-game.

Edit:

Come to think of it, wouldn't 4x Ocean + Kha'zix be kinda nutty too? think about it, he has 40 mana cost, that means he gets a free ult every 4 seconds, could be really great if you're not finding enough tears to make Seraph(s)

https://imgur.com/1jUFxA9

Toolmaker2 votes

I hate this set tbh. I don't want to watch all my units be stunned to death by assassins, or have to fight against unkillable units. I stopped caring about tft before, and now I just hate it. :0

Leon19252 votes

TFT with the previous champions was MUCH better before this update. I hope RIOT will change it. Because there are combos and champions who/which are useless and broken. As i said TFT before the new was MUCH better because last combos and champions were better.Some of the new combos and champions are stupid Junks. RIOT can change and bring back the "Old good TFT"pls.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

TBH I think part of why Ocean sucks is that it relies on Wardens which are trash in a meta so loaded with Magic damage and the two Mages it comes with are 1/2 costs that aren't the the best in their tier. And unlike other similar power units they aren't enabling a really strong synergy. Nami is really good though, but you're using her for her ult + Mystic.

Also you missed something major with the hexes. Get Brawler's gloves for a defensive item if you're on a Cloud board. People are abusing Iceborne Gauntlet and it destroys anyone who dares to run a physical comp. Iceborne Gauntlet + Cloud buff + Cloud synergy vs Rangers or Assassins is a free win. Also even if the position for an Ocean tile is awkward, you're likely running a frontliner somewhere. Try units like Malphite, Nautilus, Taric, Yorick, Olaf, ect in those situations. High value ults popping off without requiring a mana item is really helpful even if Ocean synergy itself is trash in this damage heavy meta.

rusty poop1 votes

TFT set 2 is kinda dog, the champions are all weird with different skins(ex: how did aatrox go from demon to light??) and there are way too many classes. Items dont feel as satisfying anymore like they used to.

Ryanoguard1 votes

...Ocean is not meant as a standalone focus. it literally is to build mana faster. it's supposed to be for mana spam. it's really good with summoners as they need to pop off before they die, and it's really good with mages, who can double ult everytime their mana bar is up. Or you can do it with lux, turned into a mage with 5 other mages and machinegun ult :P that was a fun game.

This set is way more balanced than the first one. Items are put in their place and are no longer the dominating focus. The drops are enough that you shouldn't be screwed over too hard by RNG because you can pivot relatively easily. It's just way better.

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