TFT Set 2: Swarm is really overtuned

CurS1VE·Nov 16, 2019·4 votes·1,141 views

So here is the thing I've noticed so far, All the Swarm champs (Malz/Zyra/Annie/Azir/Zed etc) are way too strong early for the cost; Malz/Zyra and to a lesser extent Azir are all very very very strong early and it's pretty borderline being "The best" option if those choices come up you almost have to try and sit on them to get them to plug in.

Malz/Zyra are way strong early and for whatever reason the Zyra's that are (i believe) 1 cost actually do a lot more dmg than the Malz voidlings that are 2 cost..Tibbers is also really strong but at least Annie is a 4 cost and it's kinda tough gettin him out sometimes so it's like ok that's not too bad. Azir seems the most ok or maybe undertuned compared to the others and he is kinda rare to find so i don't have a huge prob with him.

You look at the Woodland bonus and when you get something really silly like ivern maokai and either lb or neeko who are all really low costs, easy to find and they are perfect for swarming and giving utility it's like these are the easiest champs to get and get consistent results.

you won't win every game late or anything but it makes getting top 3 pretty simple when you get a swarm with 1 or both options.

Honestly i like that they aren't on the level as the dog shit Elise or anything like that, maybe the duration needs to be lower? since the bonus is extremely strong when you start putting tear items on some of these champs it means they can get a lot of minions out early and that's fine for the game but because there are really limited AOE options in this Set in terms of champs and items it's maybe a bit much.

Berserkers are cool but they are actually tougher to get going since many of them are higher cost the easiest counter to swarm would be that imo but scarcity makes that kind of a tough option.

I can't really see any other hard counter than that; there are only a handful of champs now that have base AOE/Cleave dmg built into their Kit so that means Swarm is going to be really strong until either the Duration is brought down or other direct counters are easier to obtain, otherwise it's all just about swarm mid and maybe get some sort of inferno or something later.

More engaging then the first set obviously but still it's like ehhh this isn't too great

I will restate though, late game they are for sure pretty beatable if you didn't get some great items and have multiple lv's up on your champs. Taking a decent lead into the late game consistently though is what i've really noticed, almost always you can build a really dramatic lead and by the time it gets to the top 5 you are still sitting pretty healthy while most others are pretty low. Even with sub-optimal items you can finish top 5 against average players pretty consistently from what i've experienced anyway. Every time I used Swarm i got 2-2-3-3 and a 5 but whatever to that 5. I gotta say it may possibly need to be tweaked.

9 Comments

SukishooNov 16, 20192 votes

Swarm? I think you mean Summoner.

CurS1VENov 17, 20191 votes

Swarm is another word for it all. If you play any other TCGs or anything you'd know

FireDrizzleNov 16, 20191 votes

Funny that you should mention Elise, before she recieved any buffs I said she needed buffs and the clever people here told me I was wrong.

PhearBunnyNov 16, 20191 votes

Azir is fine. Malz and Zyra are only carries if they get Mage Spatulas and a 3/6 or 6/6 Mage bonus along with either 3/6 Summoner or 6/6 summoner. Otherwise they arent that big of a deal.

The truely broken things are Singed, Olaf, Lux, and Zed. Kindred, Yi, and Mundo after that. and thennn things like Malz, and Annie. and thennnnnnn Zyra because her being strong requires certain stars to align.(Mage spatula+Spear of Shojin+Archangels/or another spear.

FireDrizzleNov 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Azir is fine. Malz and Zyra are only carries if they get Mage Spatulas and a 3/6 or 6/6 Mage bonus along with either 3/6 Summoner or 6/6 summoner. Otherwise they arent that big of a deal.

The truely broken things are Singed, Olaf, Lux, and Zed. Kindred, Yi, and Mundo after that. and thennn things like Malz, and Annie. and thennnnnnn Zyra because her being strong requires certain stars to align.(Mage spatula+Spear of Shojin+Archangels/or another spear.

Kindred is only 3 cost so she belongs in the truly broken list, 3 synergies despite being cost 3 and her ludens abuse is more effective than Lucian's in set 1.

CurS1VENov 17, 20191 votes

right so this is completely off the mark of what i was talking about. You guys don't understand at all

FireDrizzleNov 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

right so this is completely off the mark of what i was talking about. You guys don't understand at all

Well I i will actually talk about the topic of your thread now, swarm isnt op while poison exists in the game. They can think about nerfing summoners whent they nerf the op poision that also counters it.

CurS1VENov 17, 20191 votes

once again someone who doesn't actually read. It's not that it's OP compared to anything; it's that the overall strength and consistency is too easy and too strong for low risk.

Lemme break this down again since you ppl don't actually understand how to comprehend.

When you look at Malz and Zyra Both Low Cost and Plentiful and they both have really strong Tiers with Shadow and Inferno Respectively. That means getting either of these (or both) means easy transitions into the mid game and possibly late.

There is no downside in taking either of these, they splash into almost any major tier and the only way you could ever side or upgrade is when you have great RNG in your favor.

Take for example Poison as you said is strong, that's not a debate, the fact is to actually make a team of Poison you need to have a lot of luck or you better be econ efficient because a lot of those champs are higher cost and as such there are just quite frankly fewer.

Now you could end a game with Half a poison team and never get it started considering Singed is a big part of making it work; Mundo is great and I love that champ overall but it's still way risky to go for that

With Summoner Swarm it is literally 0 risk, If there is Malzahar or Zyra in opening Carousel you GO FOR IT flat out and if there are Zyra's or Malzahar's you go for it! You have no downside in sitting on these champs and even when you only have them at their base and not upgraded yet they are actually really strong when they get their summons out.

So early game they are priority

Mid Game, it's simple you just stock pile either infernos or shadows unless the RNG is like literally forcing you to take any thing else; splash in a couple Wardens and then late you either wait for a Kindred or you move to whatever has been forced on you but still keeping the Core of the Swarm until either the other stuff reach lv 3 or you get things that are just blatantly OP.

Either way you just sit on those (1 or both) and build on it, they can literally carry you to the Top 3-4 so consistently it actually makes the game pretty un-fun. The only times you won't is when obviously things like other ppl just get ridiculous items or a ton of lv 3's via hyper rolling or just lucky RNG.

Poison is good for sure but it's way less consistent and reliable, this is why instead of talking about things that are obviously suppose to be good mid / late (like poison for example) i'm talking about something that Is Really Good Early, REally Good Mid and just Good Late but it's super stable, has great synergy with a lot of power picks and also has room to pivot really easily.

When you look at all of that; the point becomes that those 2 in particular are a little TOO powerful because of the stability and ease of execution.

I feel like I am telling the same thing to the same ppl who still don't understand.

You remember in Set 1 where ppl figured out how simple certain synergy's work with how powerful they are like how Void/Assassins was really good for awhile because most of those are cheap/plentiful and just strong overall; That is essentially what Summoners are; they are cheap, fast, easy and can get you consistency. That doesn't mean there aren't traits or champs that are stronger but the risk vs reward is the thing you gotta look at! If i invest in Summoners I know i have a super easy and consistent build path almost every game even when i get weird draws I can still splash malz or zyra and shore up whatever it is i was given and eventually the same core concept develops.

CurS1VENov 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Azir is fine. Malz and Zyra are only carries if they get Mage Spatulas and a 3/6 or 6/6 Mage bonus along with either 3/6 Summoner or 6/6 summoner. Otherwise they arent that big of a deal.

The truely broken things are Singed, Olaf, Lux, and Zed. Kindred, Yi, and Mundo after that. and thennn things like Malz, and Annie. and thennnnnnn Zyra because her being strong requires certain stars to align.(Mage spatula+Spear of Shojin+Archangels/or another spear.

i'm not debating that there are things stronger, like i said (if you read the post) it's not that the Swarm is somehow insanely strong to where you auto win, IF you actually read what I wrote you would understand that pretty simply that the 2 Main Summoners of Zyra and Malz are too strong for their Cost, the power they have as being 1 cost and 2 cost is pretty insane and if you don't agree then i would say you aren't looking at it the right way.

Olaf is quite possibly the most OP champ in TFT and this isn't about how strong the most broken champs are. What I'm speaking to is the ease, the reliability and the overall strength of Swarm with the 2 main users of Malzahar and Zyra. Azir at his current cost is actually the weaker of the 3 considering there are going to be less of him, less synergy with other traits (desert is meh) and also with the bang for your buck factor.

When you talk about Early and Mid transition these 2 Champs (some extent Annie but that's a bit different) are just too strong for how simple it is to Upgrade them as well as the Synergy with other Traits for example Shadow and Inferno are both very good on their own but getting both means if you just toss a kindred in you have a very insane late game pivot without having to get either to level 3; so even if you do get shafted by RNG you can still use those same 1 cost and 2 cost champs to get to a place where you can compete without having to change much.

This is actually pretty huge overall because although there are champs that can be said "Are Stronger", there really isn't anything quite as easy to execute.

So yeah, obviously either you didn't read what I wrote in the original post or you just flat out misunderstood it, either way this post isn't about comparing 1 champ to another but rather the ease and consistency that some of the champs have make them too strong for how simple the are.

I mean i don't understand how you even misunderstood what I wrote considering the 1st paragraphs topic sentence is literally my entire premise "Too good too early and too consistent for the cost" literally that's all there is to it