Riot, it's been 33 months since Cassiopeia received her last skin.

Canastus·Nov 11, 2015·7 votes·8,787 views

And yet you release another batch of skins on the PBE without even considering her. Ryze is the only one of those champions who's most deserving of a skin right now if we consider release-dates. Besides, the fact that you've been neglecting Cassiopeia for this long is simply appalling. Sure, the same could be said about champions like Yorick or Urgot but those have full relaunches planned, I wish the same could be said about Cass.

So what's stopping you from doing the morally right thing? Don't we already suffer enough from having to play an unloved champion, now you're even denying us the joy of buying skins for her? The way you're setting your priorities is anything but comprehensible at this point. I'd really love to hear your reasoning on this, just try to justify it.

47 Comments

Ebonmaw DragonNov 11, 201515 votes

Yorick oh man that must be awfull.... please tell me more...

biologist11Nov 11, 20151 votes

Sion with you there brother.(Hasn't gotten a skin since july 2011)

SukishooNov 13, 20151 votes

Had a relaunch recently. He'll get one soon enough.

SharjoNov 13, 20152 votes

Still gunning for Snow Day Sion where he's shovelling snow like a boss.

RalanrNov 14, 20151 votes

Or pretty princess Sion.

GreenLoreNov 20, 20151 votes

He could turn into a huge snowball during his ult

CanastusNov 14, 20151 votes

He already received a relaunch which completely replaced all of his skins, that wasn't an ordinary TU like the cheap one which Cass received.

biologist11Nov 14, 20151 votes

Yes this is true but he doesn't even have skin that changes his particles even slightly unlike cassopiea where jade fang change it slightly.

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 20157 votes

This dude's going to need a bit of update love before we look into giving him a skin.

SharjoNov 13, 20153 votes

Well atleast Poppy's out the door soon so then it's just Taric ahead of him. IT'S IN SIGHT.

GreenLoreNov 20, 20151 votes

Urgot might also get his rework before yorick.

CanastusNov 14, 20151 votes

I already mentioned him in my post. Him and Urgot got a fullblown relaunch in the works, Cassiopeia simply doesn't. Either you didn't fully read my post or you were just trying to fish for misplaced sympathy.

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 201510 votes

Just wanted to pop in here - While I can't say if Cassiopeia has a skin in the works or not, I can say that we haven't forgotten about Cassiopeia by any means.

To counter your argument of Cassiopeia being one of the most deserving champions for a skin (her last skin was 2013) - Kennen hasn't received a skin since 2011. (He's eligible for a skin, by the way!) There are a good chunk of champions who need a new skin, and we're slowly but surely making our way through the list. For example, we've given skins to several champions this year who had waited 2+ years - Master Yi, Galio and Akali to name a few. In addition, she did just receive a set of chromas! (This doesn't knock them out for getting a new skin any time soon, just to be clear, as you've seen with Zac!)

As for justification, we don't want to slap a skin on a champion just because 'they need one', 'cause that's not fair to champion mains. We want a theme that works well with a champion - i.e. Star Guardian Lux. We also have a ton of skins in development, and it's possible there's something planned down the pipeline (again, I can't spoil anything here).

CanastusNov 14, 20153 votes

You're leaving out one important fact, though: the matter of viability. Kennen is far more playable than Cassiopeia (infact he has seen plenty of play at Worlds) whereas Cassiopeia remains an unloved and underperforming champion in dire need of attention. By omitting her from your updates you're just supporting my belief that your company mainly cares about popular champions, everyone else simply doesn't warrant the effort anymore.

It's beyond me how you couldn't come up with a skin concept for her after all this time, it just doesn't make any sense. Have you even seen the wonderful ideas people post on here? Apparently they don't have a problem with creating skins for her, so why can't you?

Just because you're so focused on releasing skins within a thematic series doesn't mean you can't release unique ones, you already did it for Kassadin and Brand this year. So when's finally Cassiopeia's turn?

How much longer do I need to ask this until you do something? I'm counting every single month that passes and every single PBE update you put up and it merely strengthens my determination to keep up with this constant questioning. It's only going to get worse.

RiotmoonstonesNov 18, 20153 votes

You're leaving out one important fact, though: the matter of viability. Kennen is far more playable than Cassiopeia (infact he has seen plenty of play at Worlds) whereas Cassiopeia remains an unloved and underperforming champion in dire need of attention. By omitting her from your updates you're just supporting my belief that your company mainly cares about popular champions, everyone else simply doesn't warrant the effort anymore.

(I can't speak much to updates here since I'm on the skins team and I'm not currently in the know as to what's happening in gameplay/balance land. However, I would disagree with this statement. Cassiopeia has ~ a 42% win rate, and Kennen is around ~44%.

It isn't a matter of Riot caring about popular champions, but instead, working on creating awesome thematics that really work for a champion.

It's beyond me how you couldn't come up with a skin concept for her after all this time, it just doesn't make any sense. Have you even seen the wonderful ideas people post on here? Apparently they don't have a problem with creating skins for her, so why can't you?

We aren't putting her on the backburner in terms of skins. For example, we recently gave her a chroma pack. While it may not be a skin, it's still additional cosmetic content for this champion.

I have seen a lot of the awesome art, and I'm partial to one of the snow/ice thematics where her Twin Fangs are ice shards.

While it's easy to come up with a concept (especially when there isn't art and it's just words), it's much harder to create the model and particles that really sell that fantasy. For example, maybe a winter snake doesn't work well, but the particles do. That leaves us with something a bit more difficult to solve than anticipated, which could mean more time in development. Just using this as an example, but there are instances where we do create something and it doesn't work the first time around and we'll either shelve it, or in rare cases, trash the idea completely.

Just because you're so focused on releasing skins within a thematic series doesn't mean you can't release unique ones, you already did it for Kassadin and Brand this year. So when's finally Cassiopeia's turn?

I 100% agree with you here - we certainly don't limit ourselves to existing thematics and are open to creating new ones.

How much longer do I need to ask this until you do something? I'm counting every single month that passes and every single PBE update you put up and it merely strengthens my determination to keep up with this constant questioning. It's only going to get worse.

It's awesome that you're passionate about this. Unfortunately, I don't have the answers you're seeking. I'm not able to discuss what we may or may not have in development for Cassiopeia, but as I've mentioned in this thread, I don't want Cass players to feel like their comments are falling on deaf ears.

VeryGreenNov 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=y09aB0Rm,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-11-18T17:52:38.358+0000)

(I can't speak much to updates here since I'm on the skins team and I'm not currently in the know as to what's happening in gameplay/balance land. However, I would disagree with this statement. Cassiopeia has ~ a 42% win rate, and Kennen is around ~44%.

It isn't a matter of Riot caring about popular champions, but instead, working on creating awesome thematics that really work for a champion.

We aren't putting her on the backburner in terms of skins. For example, we recently gave her a chroma pack. While it may not be a skin, it's still additional cosmetic content for this champion.

I have seen a lot of the awesome art, and I'm partial to one of the snow/ice thematics where her Twin Fangs are ice shards.

While it's easy to come up with a concept (especially when there isn't art and it's just words), it's much harder to create the model and particles that really sell that fantasy. For example, maybe a winter snake doesn't work well, but the particles do. That leaves us with something a bit more difficult to solve than anticipated, which could mean more time in development. Just using this as an example, but there are instances where we do create something and it doesn't work the first time around and we'll either shelve it, or in rare cases, trash the idea completely.

I 100% agree with you here - we certainly don't limit ourselves to existing thematics and are open to creating new ones.

It's awesome that you're passionate about this. Unfortunately, I don't have the answers you're seeking. I'm not able to discuss what we may or may not have in development for Cassiopeia, but as I've mentioned in this thread, I don't want Cass players to feel like their comments are falling on deaf ears.

chroma skins arent real skins. I dont wanna play piss water zac or ugly yellow fizz. And Cass's chroma skins arent even that great because she needs a visual update.

GreenLoreNov 20, 20151 votes

Uhm she said herself that chromaskins aren't considered skins. Its just that they are still something.

VeryGreenNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Uhm she said herself that chromaskins aren't considered skins. Its just that they are still something.

Sorry, I guess I didnt type it out the way I thought it out in my head. What I mean is that its basically nothing. The recolors are cring worthy and arent even good colors on her. I have an idea that is to do. Put snakes on her head and make her medusa. Wow. Such skill.

SharjoNov 11, 20155 votes

So what's stopping you from doing the morally right thing? Don't we already suffer enough from having to play an unloved champion, now you're even denying us the joy of buying skins for her? The way you're setting your priorities is anything but comprehensible at this point. I'd really love to hear your reasoning on this, just try to justify it.

Maybe they made some concepts but didn't like them in the execution, so threw 'em out.

Or maybe there's a Cass skin in the works now.

Or maybe not.

Either way there's no malicious intent. If Riot was truly malicious they'd give you a shitty Cass skin and ask you to over pay for it, pushing on the fact she's been without a new skin for a while. There's fuck all to justify because some people who actually needed skins got skins this year, like Kassadin, Olaf, Brand, etc. If they were truly denying you something they'd actually come in and say "Yeah we had some awesome concepts, but we don't like you or Cassiopeia so we'll never be releasing them ever". Everyone'll get their skins just be bloody patient. Just ask Kassadin players. Or Rumble players. Or Skarner players. Or anyone who plays champions who've had over two years waiting on a new skin.

Whiteeye AvelynNov 11, 20154 votes

To be fair though Champions who are played in the Lcs and Worlds are more likely to get a skin then others. Other then that you are spot on.

SharjoNov 11, 20152 votes

Only by the virtue of Championship and Worlds skins. There's literally no criteria for who gets skins other than whoever has a cool skin idea they wanna make a reality for a specific champion.

Whiteeye AvelynNov 11, 20151 votes

I should have stated that better my mistake, What i meant is if you check around though out This years Lcs and Worlds, Most of those champions have gotten a skin,in the lcs the most played champs were: Sivir Nidalee Janna Gragas Zed With honorable mentions: Gnar Jinx Braum Hecarim Ezreal

And Thats the lcs alone and most of them have or are getting skins, Not because riot hates other champions its because they where in the spotlight and where really played alot so riot thinks"These are the champions they like so we should make skins for them now and others when they rise into the spotlight"

SharjoNov 11, 20151 votes

I get your point, I do, but honestly there isn't a connection between competitive play rates and skin release scheduling in my eyes, with the exception of the skin lines geared specifically around the competitive scene, a la Championship and the Winner's skins. It would make sense if there was; competitive exposure for a champion could boost skin sales, new skins adds to this, capitalize on both and voila! Free money! But correlation doesn't equal causation. If there was we'd see skins pushed for those champions who received a ton of play in competitive to a much larger degree.

So I do understand your point and don't take this as me being like "Oh you're so wrong Oryx shut up!", but I fundamentally disagree with this point of view.

Whiteeye AvelynNov 11, 20152 votes

Don't worry i see where you are coming from neither of us work with riot so there is no right/wrong answer its all speculation

Honestly i agree with you for the most part Tbh

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 20155 votes

This actually isn't true at all. ^-^

We pick champions based off several things including the last time they received a skin and if they fit into a particular thematic we'd like to accomplish - i.e. Jinx for Lunar Revel.

Whiteeye AvelynNov 15, 20153 votes

if thats the case then we are still waiting on a swain skin

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 20153 votes

These are all possible scenarios. We do have instances where we have a cool idea, but when we go to prove the concept out, it doesn't work, so it ends up being shelved or completely scrapped. For example, Guardian of the Sands Xerath, Rammus and Skarner were shelved a year prior to their release. We unshelved them a bit earlier this year and made some improvements before finally releasing them into the wild.

SharjoNov 13, 20151 votes

I remember Ironstylus talking about a Viktor skin, Dark Harvester if memory serves, that got to really late phases of development and was then scrapped, which severely delayed his first post release skin being a thing. I'd imagine for skins that are super far along in development this doesn't happen often, but I'd also imagine skins idea are thrown out or shelved more often than people realise.

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 20152 votes

We try to hammer out the kinks while we're still in early stages of development so we don't end up elbows deep in a project that won't work out. Honestly, there are pretty few skin ideas that get completely trashed.

SharjoNov 13, 20151 votes

Huh, well good to know.

exe3Nov 13, 20151 votes

Please tell me this isn't what happened to Pizza Delivery Sivir or Human Orianna and you guys are just biding your time! D:

FasmodeyNov 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=y09aB0Rm,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-11-13T18:56:29.773+0000)

These are all possible scenarios. We do have instances where we have a cool idea, but when we go to prove the concept out, it doesn't work, so it ends up being shelved or completely scrapped. For example, Guardian of the Sands Xerath, Rammus and Skarner were shelved a year prior to their release. We unshelved them a bit earlier this year and made some improvements before finally releasing them into the wild.

Does shelving a champion skin who was in a development delay this champion's next skin? I mean, you said Xerath skin was shelved, then you improved this skin and released it. Does it mean we're going to wait for next skin, like 1 or 2 years, or it is completely fitting on a theme?

I actually would love to see a Void themed Xerath skin. It is also a different colored skin theme for Xerath. There is only left purple and may be white.

Can Xerath get same colored skins? Can we get another blue skin for him?

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 20152 votes

Does shelving a champion skin who was in a development delay this champion's next skin? I mean, you said Xerath skin was shelved, then you improved this skin and released it. Does it mean we're going to wait for next skin, like 1 or 2 years, or it is completely fitting on a theme?

Not necessarily, no. Guardian of the Sands Skarner was shelved while we were working on Battlecast Skarner.

Can Xerath get same colored skins? Can we get another blue skin for him?

We try to vary the thematics, which means trying to vary the colors as much as possible.

FasmodeyNov 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=y09aB0Rm,comment-id=0000000100030000,timestamp=2015-11-13T21:53:31.317+0000)

Not necessarily, no. Guardian of the Sands Skarner was shelved while we were working on Battlecast Skarner.

We try to vary the thematics, which means trying to vary the colors as much as possible.

Oh, if you guys want to vary themes, does it mean purple Xerath have high chance? I don't think there is another colour who isn't similar to other skin colours expect purple.

RiotmoonstonesNov 13, 20152 votes

It's possible - it'd depend on the thematic.

FasmodeyNov 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=y09aB0Rm,comment-id=000000010003000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-13T22:54:10.296+0000)

It's possible - it'd depend on the thematic.

Thank you for answers.

I hope you guys make a purple colored 1350 tier Xerath skin. After Gravelord Azir and Cosmic Reaver Kassadin, I have big hope for champions like Xerath, Syndra, Lissandra, Karthus because of high numbered skill effects.

Yuri By MailNov 20, 20151 votes

I know it's a bit off-topic but you brought up Battlecast Skarner and were kind enough to answer a slightly off-topic question before for me, but was the Battlecast line thought up during or after Battlecast Urgot? That is to say, was Battlecast Urgot intended as a standalone at first?

Thanks!

RiotmoonstonesNov 20, 20151 votes

He was thought up wayyy after.

We'll generally create a standalone thematic in a lot of instances and then go ahead and build off of it later.

TakitoNov 11, 20152 votes

{quoted} Ryze is the only one of those champions who's most deserving of a skin right now.

Right after this part you lost credibility hahahaha.

No offense but it's a fact that ryze got a lot of skin so ryze isn't the 'only one of those champs who's most deserving of a skin'.

I like cassiopeia and i'll admit she need a good skin, but hey, give them time...Maybe there is a showdown snowdown skin for her in the making ;)

Meanwhile the skin on trist looks pretty amazing, azir NEEDED a new skin(he still only had his release skin) and let's be honest, that hecarim skin looks sick from what i saw.

So maybe braum,varus and gragas could've been swapped for cass, but if we think about it:

Braum was a major threat during world and one of the best support late in season 5.Kinda deserves the skin.

Gragas was one of the three top tier jungle (with elise and lee) before he was removed so deserves too.

So only based with facts, (except for heca and trist skins looking amazing but hey, you know it's true :P) the only champs that have 'no reason' to get a skin before cass are ryze and varus.You told us ryze deserves one.That leaves varus.

They had an idea for varus so they did a skin for him.If they had an idea for cass they would've done it for her.

As simple as that.

Crowe StalkerNov 13, 20152 votes

Oh Zyra Please Viktor Tell me more about Yorick Champions that need skins Sion based on when they last got one Kennen or if they actually need a new one Swain

(Am I doing it right?)

SGT EntrailsNov 20, 20152 votes

Dragonmaster Swain where?

TakitoNov 11, 20151 votes

I got you, i'm just trying (at the risk of getting load of downvotes hahaha) to explain rito situation.

They try to give us nice skins (which is exactly what they did here...Most of these skins are awesome), even if it's not always on champ we want.

Do you have an idea how many 'azir need a skin' subject have been created? I created one myself so i know hahaha.

So i'm not saying cass does not deserves a skin.

She certainly does, i'm personally waiting for a cass skin with particle changes and everything.But i understand that they can't create a skin for every champ a the same time and that cass might have one already planned for snowdown showdown, lunar revel or even 14th february.

Anyway, that's all i had to say, i understand your position, now try to understand rito position ;)

MatezoideNov 11, 20151 votes

There are a lot of champions that have been waiting for longer.

I agree it is dumb how Gragas and Varus are getting new ones though.

SaltNPettyNov 13, 20151 votes

I am so glad this post exists.

StrangeStrategyNov 13, 20151 votes

Don't we already suffer enough from having to play an unloved champion, #FirstWorldProblems.

Did you really just use the word "suffer", are you really complaining about not spending money on a video game? Just saying. Maybe consider a little editing so you don't sound like a fucking moron.