Definitive Proof that Kai'Sa has no character IN-GAME [PROVE ME WRONG]

DeadUnborn·Feb 22, 2018·2 votes·968 views

I want to play a game with you people: We all just have to answer two questions, which determine if a character is well established or not

ONLY RULE: You can only answer the questions using Kai'Sa´s IN-GAME lines and VO.

1.-Describe Kai'Sa without mentioning her appearance, occupation or actions she does (So can't answer "she is a hunter" or "she is a pretty suit wearing lady" , or she came back from the void/hunts)

2.-What is the character's goal or objective? What does it strive for?

Here is an example for Swain

1.- Swain is determined, confident, cunning, wise, meticulous, arrogant...etc.

2.- Swain wants to unify, to conquer, to rule, to posses, to gain power and knowledge, to be prepared, to defeat....etc

The longer the answer the deeper the character

EDIT: ** Why are people downvoting instead of trying to refute what I said? You can always prove me wrong... is in the blessed Title Lol**

48 Comments

midnight oil24Feb 22, 20189 votes

Kai'sa is from a place called the Void, requires a second skin to keep her alive, is unaware of what her father has become, does not hold a grudge against Malzahar, seems to be at peace after returning to Runeterra, seems to hate the Void, sees herself as the best person to lead the fight against it, is aware that she's not fully human anymore, knows that the void has more of a presence in Runeterra than most know, seems to have a history with many voidborn. She's rather calm, but not entirely sane due to years in the Void. She likes peaches.

Her goal is to defeat the void, to save the world, and probably to see her father again.

It's not that hard.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20183 votes

you didn't really follow the rules though. You can't describe her appearance and you can only use in game quotes. A lot of what you are describing is inferred.

Seems to a be at peace for example isn't a character trait, just a state in the characters journey.

For example there are times when Darth Vader is calm and Times when he was angry or sad. However he would always be confident in his ability, arrogant, determined, doubtful, etc

Also you never answered what her goal or what she strives for is

If you want to be serious about this you can follow the example I gave :)

midnight oil24Feb 22, 20188 votes

I did follow the rules though. She says to the suit that they need each other to live. That seems to be following the rules. She says she forgives Malzahar in her interactions. Tells others to just do what she says because she knows what to do. You may be right about the "at peace" thing being more a state of mind, but I've answered the other stuff pretty well. Given that she makes references to stuff that other Void creatures are known for doing, like Kog'maw being a glutton, that shows she has a history with them.

And I did say what her goal is: defeat the Void.

Did you listen to her VO?

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20182 votes

sigh, her suit is part of what she is wearing...which is part of her appearance.

Ok what character trait is forgiving malzahar exactly? would you classify as a forgiving person? keep in mind she has a lot of lines about killing stuff.

Defeating the void would be "her occupation"

Look man I gave you a pretty solid example

Here is an example for Swain

1.- Swain is determined, confident, cunning, wise, meticulous, arrogant...etc.

2.- Swain wants to unify, to conquer, to rule, to posses, to gain power and knowledge, to be prepared, to defeat....etc

whether you want to follow the format or not is up to you

midnight oil24Feb 22, 20188 votes

So I can use her VO, but only parts that don't talk about what she even is? I'd say unifying a nation is an occupation too, so that means that you should take "Swain wants to unify, to conquer, to rule," off your list because those are all occupations. I especially like how when "to defeat" is on your swain list it's fine but when "to defeat" is on my list it's an occupation and thus invalid.

But fine. I'll see if I can fit your constantly changing definition for what describes a character.

She is calm, determined, ruthless, prone to mistakes, hard on herself, a survivor, able to move on from past events, willing to become inhuman to live, able to maintain an optimistic outlook, and feels like others haven't faced as much hardship as her (if you want proof, she has lines talking about how she lived through all sorts of horrible stuff and she doesn't need her support with her).

Since "defeat the void" is off the table, I don't even know what you'll allow here. Return home? Meet her father? Those work, but for all I know those don't count since things become invalid when I use them.

Does this meet your criteria of chopping off all context around a character and just making them personality traits without thinking about what leads to those personality traits and how those are integral parts of a character?

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

Hmm maybe if I give you another example it will be easier to follow

Jinx

1.-Chaotic, playful, crazy, snarky, childish, carefree, funny, moody, reckless, extroverted, impulsive

2.-Destruction, having fun, chaos, mayhem

Some of the things you said for one are fair answers, others you didn't really get the point but whateves

CetriFeb 22, 20185 votes

OBJECTION!

Part of Swain's job description, as Grand General of Noxus, is to rule, defeat, conquer, etc. If saying that Kai'sa's goal, defeating the Void, is her occupation (which it rly isn't i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say she doesn't get paid for it), then you can't say that that's Swain's goal either.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

OVERULED

Occupation is meant to be what the character does. Example Maokais "occupation" would be to defeat Mordekaizer, even though he isn't paid to do that. Lol

Also no. There are different kinds of rulers:

For example a reluctant ruler that wants to simply enjoy a luxurious life would not want to rule.

A pacifist or diplomatic rules would not want to conquer... you get it now I think

CetriFeb 22, 20181 votes

No. Maokai's "occupation" would be nature spirit, and his goal is to restore the Blessed Isles. Defeating Morde is a means to that end. It's also something he hasn't done yet, so I'm not sure how you can claim it's something he "does."

Swain's occupation is Grand General of an empire. His goal is to fortify the world against threats like the Void and the Watchers. Expanding Noxus is a means to that end.

Kai'sa's occupation would be for lack of a better word hunter, or perhaps vanguard. Her goal, as stated before, is to stop the Void's invasion of Runeterra. Killing Void monsters is, you guessed it, a means to that end. EDIT: if you want her goal summed up in a single simple word, as you seem to do? To save.

If we can't talk about what a character does in pursuit of their goal, then there is simply no discussion to be had. Generally, a person's occupation relates heavily to their goal.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

sigh

mmM sure let me give you more examples so it is easier for you (only doing Goals)

Jinx: Destruction, having fun

Yasuo: Redmeption, forgivness, acceptance

Kayn: improvement, acceptance

Ornn: Solitude, Peace

Evelynn: Pleasure

Clearer now?

CetriFeb 22, 20182 votes

Alright then, I think I get what you're trying to say.

I'd say peace works damn well for Kai'sa.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

I agree, I think it is a bit simplistic though

CetriFeb 22, 20181 votes

Most motivations (which I believe is more of the word you're looking for) are, when you get down to it and boil it down to a single word or concept.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

Yea but it is the branching out, the complexity I am talking about here

For example Eve´s goal is pleasure, but to get that pleasure she strives for other things:

Seduction, torment, sadism, torture, deceive

Now if you went and tried to do that with Kai'Sa, I'd wager you would come up with only:

hunting and hmmm I'm honestly having a hard time coming up with stuff

CetriFeb 22, 20181 votes

Some of her quotes seem to show her as the type to take charge of a situation, so there's leadership.

She doesn't bear a grudge against Malzahar, showing forgiveness is also an aspect of her character.

She also seems hostile towards Void creatures specifically for being on the Rift (one of her quotes is "This is MY home") so one could also make an argument for protectiveness.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

I get what you are saying but that seems like things she does just because, not part of a cohesive character. I am sure her bio and story will flesh her out a lot, but in-game I find her lacking

CetriFeb 22, 20181 votes

How so? They're all things that relate back to wanting peace.

RebonackFeb 22, 20183 votes

Personality: Steely, resolute, determined, calm.

Goal: Wishes to preserve peaches from the Void.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

yeah as you can see her character isn't very deep, only four traits and all very in line.

Her "goal" I would classify as her occupation, but I'm not gonna be anal about it lol. this is only an exercise so people can self reflect on whether she has a character or not

Crimson AnamFeb 22, 20181 votes

Do you think SPARTANs are 'flat'?

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

hmmm..what?

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 22, 20181 votes

First of all, i must admit that i dont like ther VO, it seems like a wasted potential sometimes... anyways.

{quoted}

I want to play a game with you people: We all just have to answer two questions, which determine if a character is well established or not

ONLY RULE: You can only answer the questions using Kai'Sa´s IN-GAME lines and VO.

1.-Describe Kai'Sa without mentioning her appearance or occupation (So can't answer "she is a hunter" or "she is a pretty suit wearing lady")

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/6/69/Kai%27Sa_0004.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180222073533 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/cc/Kai%27Sa_0037.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180222073620 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/0c/Kai%27Sa_0068.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180222073707

2.-What is the character's goal or objective? What does it strive for?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/52/Kai%27Sa_0002.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180222073531 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/15/Kai%27Sa_0063.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180222073658 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/d7/Kai%27Sa_0019.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180222073554

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

If you want me to interpret those, I'd say she is stoic and determined. Her goal is survival, not a very deep/compelling character IMO

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If you want me to interpret those, I'd say she is stoic and determined. Her goal is survival, not a very deep/compelling character IMO

Sure, you dont like it (neither i do), but that IS her character.

Oh, that and she wants to protect others.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

I don't know if you can call 3 similar traits a character, but sure lets go with that.

For example Ornn is stoic, calm, determined, but he also is, industrious, just, cranky, has a soft side, benevolent, impatient, hardworking, stout, structured, capable, etc

See... he shares some core traits with Kai'Sa but he is so much more than that

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't know if you can call 3 similar traits a character, but sure lets go with that.

For example Ornn is stoic, calm, determined, but he also is, industrious, just, cranky, has a soft side, benevolent, impatient, hardworking, stout, structured, capable, etc

See... he shares some core traits with Kai'Sa but he is so much more than that

To be fair, i only used que quotes that are avaliable in the wiki, that is unfinished. However, i dont think it would change too much if i used more quotes. Anyways, lets remember that she did not interacted with other humans in years... so it kinda makes sense that her personality is.... monotone?

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

I disagree there

For example a more complex/compelling Kai'Sa would be:

1.-stoic, steele, determined and calm but also meticulous, calculating, saddened, courageous, feisty, headstrong ..... something like that, it is just an example

2.- Her goal is clear to be eliminating void spawns, however the WHY isn't clear IN-GAME.

For example just from in-game quotes you know Swain wants to rule with an Iron Fist because of his convictions (he is arrogant and intelligent, so he knows he can rule for the "betterment" of the people, in his eyes)

Colgate GatorFeb 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

1.-Describe Kai'Sa without mentioning her appearance or occupation (So can't answer "she is a hunter" or "she is a pretty suit wearing lady")

2.-What is the character's goal or objective? What does it strive for?

The girl who came back from the Void
Most likely to hunt the Void beasts that are plaguing Runeterra

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

coming back from the void is something she does, I am asking for things she IS

hunting beasts would be something she does. Possible goals could be survival redemption, salvation, etc (just examples, I'm not syaing she portrays those well)

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

Dude lay off it. We will see when they release the character's bio and story. Until then this is all pointless.

At least wait to complain until there is genuine evidence that we have something to complain about.

How many posts do you plan to make whining about the new character while they aren't even fully released yet?

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

Never whined: I asked questions in both threads and let people discuss.

If you read the OP you will see I am talking about her VO in-game. It is important for it to convey what the character is, independently of what a written piece may add to it

For example Miss Fortune is a brilliant character in all her stories (comics, stories, etc). In game she is VERY lackluster (I know she will get a VO update someday, just wanted to exemplify my point)

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/9RnER1GL-kaisas-personality-is-factually-spot-on

I respect your point about MF. But I don't feel that this outrage over Kai'Sa's VO is warranted yet.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

Well I disagree with Kai'Sa. Invite you to do the exercise I mentioned in the OP and prove me wrong

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

You already made a post about this, making more posts is redundant and spammy.
No, it's your claim, prove it yourself. Otherwise it will remain invalid due to lack of support. You can't just pull crap like shifting the burden of proof.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

1.- no, the other post was about the VO lack of quality, this is about her character

2.- mmm sure bud

1.-She is stoic, determined and calm

2.-survival

not a very deep character by my analysis, prove me wrong

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

I already posted a link, read at your own leisure.

Edit: here's another one, read the post as well as the comment I linked to specifically:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/IAikQO2l-kaisa-isnt-what-i-expected?comment=0012

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

whelp the two things aren't really related but you do you

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20182 votes

You wanted peoples' thoughts regarding the VO, specifically ones that might counter yours. Both of the posts I linked demonstrate that.

I didn't just post links that counter what you said though. The comment that I specifically linked to does express a very well thought-out analysis on why the character's VO and design is not working. You might like it.

Also I'm not the person downvoting you. Just to be clear.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

Oh I don't mind the downvotes, no worries. In always assume is just some 16 year old that disagrees and downvotes without even writing.

I had read both posts already before you linked them actually. I just like to take a reductive approach like the one I showed you in this post, since I think that is the most objective way to "measure" character. Those two posts I can debate with at length, but from experience, I feel it would be just endless back and forth circling around topics like:

her character is very narrow and flat
that is the way it is supposed to be
yeah but it could be more, delivery and writing is poor
it isn't, she is just different from other characters

and so on and so forth without really getting at nothing

For example Ornn is also calm, serious, capable and determined, but he is complemented by being cranky, industrious, simple-minded, benevolent, just, hard working etc.

My point is that by Riot's bar simply having a character be: good: capable, determined, serious and calm doesn't cut it anymore after how much their character design has evolved

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

Okay I see what you mean and I can understand it. That said, I really think you should read the specific comment I linked to. Like I said it offers an interesting perspective on why the character may be falling flat.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

already did XD

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

Oh haha alright then XD Thoughts regarding that?

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

I feel it would be just endless back and forth circling around topics like:

her character is very narrow and flat

that is the way it is supposed to be

yeah but it could be more, delivery and writing is poor

it isn't, she is just different from other characters

and so on and so forth without really getting at nothing

HalcyonDwellerFeb 22, 20181 votes

Okay, and what about the point they made about it mirroring the mistakes of Atomic Blonde? Do you think such mistakes could be avoided with better writing? If so, how?

BobaFlautistFeb 22, 20181 votes

Characteristics:

"I won't back down!"
"Down there I was surrounded by nothingness, but I was never alone. Memories comfort like the closest companion."
"Forgiveness is hard, but so very worth it."
"I survived the void, but here is where my story has its best ending."

Goals and Objectives:

"I came for the hunt, but I'll stay for the fruit."
"I kill so they don't die!"
"They need to listen to me, then they would see that I can show them a better way."

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

Those can be interpreted in many ways. You mind listing them as traits as I did in the example?

BobaFlautistFeb 22, 20182 votes

Characteristics: Stubborn and driven, coping with trauma with hope for the future, heavily values the humanity of others.

Goals and objectives: Use of her strength to protect others, careful channeling of her thirst for violence, using the influence of her power to lead others to abandon violence when at all possible.

There are more quotes that add to these and add other things to her character, and obviously these are more character traits than physical abilities or flavor, but I think it paints a pretty clear picture of what she's all about. Rather than the usual portrayal of a symbiotic suit taking over the host and imposing its will, she has managed direct the suit's desires and appetites to serve her priorities.

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

stubborn? copying with trauma? heavily values the humanity of others? I think you are inferring a lot of stuff from one-liners, but sure whatever