as SWAIN is one of my favorites, my fears for his rework

LunSeiSleidee·Jul 23, 2017·29 votes·2,228 views

Together with Shyvana, Anivia, Rek'Sai and Taliyah, Swain is one of my most beloved characters out of all the huge cast of League.

With the upcoming rework, I am so glad his skins will likely turn him info a parrot and an owl!!! And he will no longer look like a blurry pixel triangle!!!

However, rework some times change the identity of the character. Poppy became cute. Galio became an entirely differenti character. Yorick became kinda handsome.

These are my big worried about Swain......

KEEP HIS LIMPWALK. Pleeease.
KEEP HIM OLD. Do not, nooot make him young and pretty please.....
ABOUT BEATRICE: keep her mysterious. Is she a simple pet? Is she a literal part of Swain? Is she controllino Swain? We do not know!
NO ROMANCE WITH LEBLANC PLEASE: keep the romance for other, more fitting characters. Let him and LeBlanc be colleagues of plans and treachery but please no love story or sexual innuendos! Not EVERY woman-man character relationship has to turn into sex.
ABSOLUTELY KEEP THE SHAPESHIFTING: he would be no longer Swain if he no longer turned into a werebird!!

65 Comments

ModAcademy KaynJul 23, 20176 votes

I find it sad that romance and relationships have been widdled down into just sex :(

TyrekGoldenspearJul 23, 20175 votes

Same.

Remember when romance was simply harmless flirting?

NeameanJul 24, 20172 votes

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/425/But_Pepperidge_Farm_aint_just_gonna_keep_it_to_Pepperidge__5c6a319f9b808bca3f929f02bc45f1b8.png

kitcat300Jul 24, 20171 votes

Well, what's your opinion on Rakan and Xayahs interactions?

ModAcademy KaynJul 24, 20175 votes

They're young, they're happy, pretty much similar to what a young couple is.

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 24, 20173 votes

It's mainly a result of shipping culture.

It's mostly just a perverted more complex version of porn.

OurLestradeJul 23, 20174 votes

Biggest anxiety is them making him another generic wimpy backline artillery mage that cries if someone gets close.

LunSeiSleideeJul 23, 20174 votes

I can deal with whatever gameplay they throw at me, but not with whatever design they throw at me.

ItsbeghdevJul 23, 20172 votes

I somehow doubt that they'd rework him into an artillery mage, lol

PokladnicaZlaJul 23, 20173 votes

Umm,why does Beatrice's role have to be left mysterious? We're bound to get the answer eventually.

Morgan le FeyJul 23, 20173 votes

tbh I'm not a Swain player and have no opinion on the subject at all, but I upvoted for #4 anyways. I like shipping as much as your next romantic person, but the idea that all inter-gender relationships (or at least male/female relationships) must be romantic/sexual on at least some level is deeply irksome.

xScarfyJul 24, 20173 votes

“Is she controllino Swain?“ http://orig10.deviantart.net/f6e7/f/2014/266/f/7/ned_flanders_meme___ned_flanders_meme_by_skinmexica-d80bfvo.jpg

But on a serious note: I agree with your points. Limpwalk: Please don't remove this iconic feature, Yoricks limpwalk was already enough of a loss... Old age: Yes, but I don't see a reason why Riot would turn him into a young guy Beatrice: She needs to stay a mystery, but maybe give us some hints for theories Romance with LeBlanc: As long as they don't end up as a couple I would be okay with this...maybe they had a romance in rhe past or LeBlanc seduced Swain to get into a higher rank Shapeshifting: Yes!!! Don't remove it! But I doubt that Riot will remove this feature from Swain, since its his signature move and they already hinted at him having vastayan blood as an origin for this power

LunSeiSleideeJul 25, 20171 votes

Where did they hint at him being a vastayan?

xScarfyJul 25, 20171 votes

Its a special interaction. When Rakan kills Swain he sometimes says: “You were given Vastayan blood, yet chose to be blind“ I don't think this means that Swain has a vastayan origin, but rather that he enhanced himself with vastayan blood and that its the source for his transformation power.

SlicaJul 23, 20172 votes

I thought they were just giving him a visual update

Lord JerichoJul 23, 201713 votes

It's a VGU. They're basically rebuilding him from the ground up; visuals, lore, and gameplay.

TheBentOn3Jul 23, 20172 votes

I'm hoping new Swain is more Thrawn than Palpatine.

By that I mean, Thrawn was a brutal warlord that used some unsavory tactics to get ahead, but he still believed in the ideals of his empire and inspired enormous loyalty and admiration in his followers.

nınthJul 23, 20172 votes

Everytime one of these "rework my hero my way" gets posted, I can't help but bitterly laugh.

Go back and look at how things like the Karma VGU were handled.

I hope for the sake of the community and game health as a whole that they ruin Swain so bad they have to revert, like Kog'maw, so there's a precedent for just plain reverting a champion. Can only hope that one day we'll have Karma/LeBlanc back.

GreenLoreJul 23, 20177 votes

Swain gets a full VGU. That is something comparable to Galios update or Urgots.

They won't flush down something that is comparable to a new champion in terms of work.

And Karma was the first VGU,thats why it wasn't that good.

nınthJul 23, 20175 votes

Then it should be reverted if it was decidedly not good. Phreak is literally casually chatting about how miserably boring Karma is to play and watch. He's right. If a Riot employee can openly shit on her like that, clearly something needs to be done.

GreenLoreJul 23, 20179 votes

She might be boring to play/watch,but that doesn't mean her kit isn't working well.

Her previous kit might have been not as boring,but it suffered from several others problems,that made it a nightmare to balance. Current karma is boring,but stable.

If anything you should wish that the Aatrox Gameplay update will be a success and that karma will get the next big upgrade after him(xin and Azir get smaller ones).

And honestly,wishing other reworks to fail,just because you didn't get what you wanted is rather petty.

nınthJul 25, 20171 votes

A kit not working well has never once been the reason for a rework/update. You can make literally any kit work with the numbers to back it up. Kits get reworked because they're tough to balance without breaking the game. In example, if Aatrox was top tier, he'd be an unkillable drain tank with two lives and free stats all over the place. Instead, because he's got so much tacked on, he has to be left as garbage or else the game would be miserable to play.

Her previous kit might have been not as boring,but it suffered from several others problems,that made it a nightmare to balance.

You are free to elaborate, because all I can think is that you literally don't remember her kit and are dropping the chatty riot oneliner in an attempt to save face. I was the OP of this post as the rework was coming out, and did my best to stay positive about it. Their #1 reason for reworking Karma was that her passive was hard to understand/gave invisible stats, yet over a dozen characters at the time and God knows how many now have that and worse.

They reworked Karma because she was underplayed. It's as simple as that. I don't blame them, it was one of their first reworks, no one knew what they were getting into. I do, however, blame them for failing to listen to threads of pages and pages of constructive community feedback about not just why Karma's rework was awful, but how it could be fixed while keeping a blue print of most of the same stuff.

Wishing ill upon future reworks and pretending like Karma's rework is fine today or even fine when it came out is no different at all. Only, one actually has a chance of getting results that will improve the game as a whole in the future.

GreenLoreJul 25, 20171 votes

Her kit being a mess was the entire reason behind her rework.

And yes,sometimes a kit is so flawed from the very ground that you can't balance it properly. Thats the entire reason why Urgot was so underpowered for years.Because riot didn't want Urgot to be viable,since he ends up opressive when he is viable.

Karma relied on her teammates working with her and on extremely risky plays,meaning that she was a rather extreme case of feast and famine,while her power was fairly hard to judge for her enemies.(and no,nowadays there is barely any invisible power among the champs,thats why stat auras are pretty much extinct at the moment and why everything gets a visual indicator)

And I don't pretend that Karmas rework is fine today. She does need some work and I think she should be the next big gameplay update after Aatrox.

I just don't want other reworks to suffer because of this.

nınthJul 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Her kit being a mess was the entire reason behind her rework.

And yes,sometimes a kit is so flawed from the very ground that you can't balance it properly. Thats the entire reason why Urgot was so underpowered for years.Because riot didn't want Urgot to be viable,since he ends up opressive when he is viable.

Karma relied on her teammates working with her and on extremely risky plays,meaning that she was a rather extreme case of feast and famine,while her power was fairly hard to judge for her enemies.(and no,nowadays there is barely any invisible power among the champs,thats why stat auras are pretty much extinct at the moment and why everything gets a visual indicator)

And I don't pretend that Karmas rework is fine today. She does need some work and I think she should be the next big gameplay update after Aatrox.

I just don't want other reworks to suffer because of this.

You literally ignored the entire post.

She got reworked because of her passive. They said as much. They also said they reworked her because of her missing% health heal and how they didn't like it, but they added it right back on later (and onto many other characters as well), so take that as you will.

If free stats were why she got reworked, why were Trynd and Olaf (who were reworked around the same time) allowed to keep theirs when they work the exact same way? Their name isn't Karma. Hitting them only to get hit back harder doesn't make sense. But hers got removed, theirs didn't.

and no,nowadays there is barely any invisible power among the champs

W H A T

Yasuo gets double crit, Tahm Kench has Max % hp damage every auto based on his own health, Kindred's rework has increased auto attack range (and a whole bunch of other invisible garbage) based on how many jungle camps/players she's "hunted", Azir gets passive attack speed, Jhin's attack speed turns into AD, Jhin's crit turns into MS, Garen's rework has passive Armor/MR, and these are just some examples right off the top of my head. This is also avoiding things that are "invisible" and require extensive knowledge of the champion, like Ekko's execution damage or Xayah+Rakan interactions. Get the hell outta here with that "there is barely any invisible power among the champs" garbage. NONE of these have visual indicators either, even Kindred's buff only says "haha its giving her stats, idk really xD".

She didn't need a rework. She needed (and still needs) a revert. Using her as practice for actual reworks is garbage. But no one cares, because no one plays her outside of comp play where she's the world's most generic and boring mage and the casters can openly talk about how horribly generic and boring she is.

GreenLoreJul 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You literally ignored the entire post.

She got reworked because of her passive. They said as much. They also said they reworked her because of her missing% health heal and how they didn't like it, but they added it right back on later (and onto many other characters as well), so take that as you will.

If free stats were why she got reworked, why were Trynd and Olaf (who were reworked around the same time) allowed to keep theirs when they work the exact same way? Their name isn't Karma. Hitting them only to get hit back harder doesn't make sense. But hers got removed, theirs didn't.

W H A T

Yasuo gets double crit, Tahm Kench has Max % hp damage every auto based on his own health, Kindred's rework has increased auto attack range (and a whole bunch of other invisible garbage) based on how many jungle camps/players she's "hunted", Azir gets passive attack speed, Jhin's attack speed turns into AD, Jhin's crit turns into MS, Garen's rework has passive Armor/MR, and these are just some examples right off the top of my head. This is also avoiding things that are "invisible" and require extensive knowledge of the champion, like Ekko's execution damage or Xayah+Rakan interactions. Get the hell outta here with that "there is barely any invisible power among the champs" garbage. NONE of these have visual indicators either, even Kindred's buff only says "haha its giving her stats, idk really xD".

Getting bonus stats depending on what you build/which abilities you level isn't really invisible power,at least not in a problematic way. These champs buy their items and get power from them,thats how items work. Sure they get more than other champs,but thats about it. However their power would stay constant during a fight,which wasn't the case with Karma. Karmas power varied heavily depending on how low her health was,meaning that in one moment she does scratch damage to you,in the next one she nukes you(and in her case it was waaay more extreme than Trynda and Olafs,not to mention that it was kinda counterproductive for Karma as she is a mage and those should try to stay out of harms way unlike Trynda and Olaf who are supposed to charge into the enemy team)

And since Karmas entire kit could be used for offense and defense it pretty much meant that old karmas skills all had to be below average for the most part(the passive was likely riots attempt to avoid this,but that turned into a different mess).

There was a reason for Riot to basically nerf old karma into oblivion and ignore her when it comes to new skins(and I think she wasn't even in the free champion rotation anymore). She was basically in the same boat in which Urgot and Yorick were for years.

nınthJul 31, 20171 votes

Getting bonus stats depending on what you build/which abilities you level isn't really invisible power,at least not in a problematic way.

Backpedal number one: You've gone from saying "champions don't really have invisible stats anymore" to "well these invisible stats are okay because _________".

You also ignored two of my points in this one sentence: One, that Tryndamere and Olaf both have invisible stats in the same exact way that old Karma did, and two, not all of those invisible stats were granted by build or ability rank. Most of them weren't, in-fact.

and in her case it was waaay more extreme than Trynda and Olafs

It was 130 AP at level 18 if she had 1% health. Compare it to Olaf's literally double attack speed at 1% health at any level, or Tryndamere's 60 free AD at level 9 for being at 1% (which he's actually guaranteed to be at). You could amp it up with Rabadons to be a pretty nice boost, but it's still not nearly the advantage the other two garner, especially keeping their kits in mind. But I know you'll pretend that it was, so for the sake of the conversation, let's say they could've just nerfed it or made it incompatible with Rabadons. Problem solved. Instead, wham, Karma is literally deleted from the game.

And since Karmas entire kit could be used for offense and defense it pretty much meant that old karmas skills all had to be below average for the most part

You did not play old Karma if you sincerely think that. Each ability was tuned so that it could be viable for both offensive and defensive use, had smartest possible instances and timings to use in each, and rewarded good Karma players on the level of a good Zed, Riven, or Yasuo play. On a mage.

There was a reason for Riot to basically nerf old karma into oblivion and ignore her when it comes to new skins(and I think she wasn't even in the free champion rotation anymore). She was basically in the same boat in which Urgot and Yorick were for years.

And there it is, the proof that you're lying through your teeth. She never received a single nerf her entire existence pre-rework. The closest they came to "nerfing" her came in the following adjustment:

Mantra Charge reload time changed to a 30 / 25 / 20 seconds from 25 at all levels.

She was never dirtnerfed. Her winrate was generally low, but with a team that could play around her she was amazing and a one-of-a-kind champion. Now, the most unique part of her kit is a delayed root. Wowee.

Here's to hoping they bomb the Swain rework so that she can be revisited, since we've come full circle in this conversation.

GreenLoreJul 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Backpedal number one: You've gone from saying "champions don't really have invisible stats anymore" to "well these invisible stats are okay because _________".

Honestly I don't consider bonus stats to be invisible power unless they are granted midcombat. And I just forgot about Trynda and Olaf

You also ignored two of my points in this one sentence: One, that Tryndamere and Olaf both have invisible stats in the same exact way that old Karma did, and two, not all of those invisible stats were granted by build or ability rank. Most of them weren't, in-fact.

Uhm I did adress these 2 and overall I was referring to the fact that most champs who receive bonus stats get them through items or abilities,I wasn't just focusing on the ones you listed. And Garen and Kindred slowly gather stacks,it won't make a difference midcombat if they get one stack more or not.

It was 130 AP at level 18 if she had 1% health. Compare it to Olaf's literally double attack speed at 1% health at any level, or Tryndamere's 60 free AD at level 9 for being at 1% (which he's actually guaranteed to be at). You could amp it up with Rabadons to be a pretty nice boost, but it's still not nearly the advantage the other two garner, especially keeping their kits in mind. But I know you'll pretend that it was, so for the sake of the conversation, let's say they could've just nerfed it or made it incompatible with Rabadons. Problem solved. Instead, wham, Karma is literally deleted from the game.

I already adressed this above(this shows how much you read my posts...),Trynda and Olaf are supposed to charge into the enemy team,but Karma is not. So Karma having a passive that encourages her to put herself in harms way is extremely counterproductive to how a mage should be played,leading to a huge "feast or famine"-gameplay,as she has to get hurt just enough to give her a boost in usability,without getting killed.

Also those numbers show that this was the most extreme in Karmas case,as 130 AP is more valuable than 60 AD or 99% Attack speed. Not to mention that Karma could shield herself(and the shield scaled with AP),thus giving her the ability to negate a lot of damage

And there it is, the proof that you're lying through your teeth. She never received a single nerf her entire existence pre-rework. The closest they came to "nerfing" her came in the following adjustment:

She was never dirtnerfed. Her winrate was generally low, but with a team that could play around her she was amazing and a one-of-a-kind champion. Now, the most unique part of her kit is a delayed root. Wowee.

You are right,I was mistaken here. Riot didn't need to nerf Karma into the ground,because she had a horrible winrate to begin with(even after she was buffed) with a winrate of not even 40% What Riot did was to simply ignore her in that state until she got reworked.

Here's to hoping they bomb the Swain rework so that she can be revisited, since we've come full circle in this conversation.

Which again is really petty of you. You can't have your cool thing,so no one is allowed to get anything nice.

Not to mention that a failed swain rework will most likely not cause them to go back to Karma anyway. I mean why would they? Do you think they are going to act like this: "Hmm swains new kit is a total mess,better rework karma"

If Swains rework fails,they'll likely leave him like that and give him a gameplay update again. And if anything this would delay any possible Karma changes,because they are surely not gonna revert Karma to her old self after ~4 years,they are at best going to give her a gameplay update.

Nik NikersonJul 23, 20172 votes

Yes, you can only hope. Because it's literally never going to happen.

Also, most people don't even remember old Karma at this point. Time to let it go.

nınthJul 23, 20172 votes

People who played remember, and they remember a more unique and thematic Karma than "q to aoe nuke, e to shield".

LeetriJul 24, 20172 votes

I played back when original Karma was in the game and I literally NEVER saw her. It's the only champion I've never seen in game, all I've seen of her is that old Karma Pentakill video that I sadly can't find anymore.

Blade of JusticJul 23, 20172 votes

Here's to hoping that they don't Sion him.

Lord JerichoJul 24, 20172 votes

I mean, the team that's doing Swain also did Sion and Urgot. So yes, the VGU is going to be of that magnitude. But you can't say that either Sion's or Urgot's rework look bad by any means. If they can take champs like old Sion or old Urgot and make them look badass af, then I have full confidence that they'll deliver on Swain. Especially because the Swain they're gonna present to us 6-7 months from now is a major power player in the present lore.

DanjengJul 24, 20175 votes

Well the Sion and Urgot reworks kept true to their original theme of badassery, so high hopes on this one.

Lord JerichoJul 24, 20172 votes

I have no doubt they'll deliver. I mean this isn't just any champion they're working. It's the leader of freakin Noxus we're talking about. And note how they specifically described him as the Dictator of this empire. This empire is a literal survival of the fittest and he isn't just leading it, but invokes enough fear/respect that he has it under his thumb. With such an obvious theme as Ruthless Dictator, anything below a Gangplank level of badassery would be a crime to the concept.

Like everyone is afraid they're gonna rework him into some kind of backline mage, but really? There isn't a single Noxian champion in this game that doesn't go balls deep into a teamfight. Even champions that have Noxian origins (Annie, Kayn, Urgot) don't fight at artillery mage ranges. Their longest ranged champions are battle mages. I would be thoroughly surprised if they started making a long range mage with Swain, a champion who is going to ruthlessly show why he is the current Grand General.

DarkRitualJul 24, 20172 votes

inb4 2000 range Raven spells

AlistarMilkingJul 24, 20171 votes

Well, there's Draven

Lord JerichoJul 24, 20171 votes

Draven may have a long range ult, but his playstyle is just as aggressive/ballsy as any other Noxian.

Blade of JusticJul 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Jericho,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=rMQM70fk,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-07-24T01:19:22.019+0000)

I mean, the team that's doing Swain also did Sion and Urgot. So yes, the VGU is going to be of that magnitude. But you can't say that either Sion's or Urgot's rework look bad by any means. If they can take champs like old Sion or old Urgot and make them look badass af, then I have full confidence that they'll deliver on Swain. Especially because the Swain they're gonna present to us 6-7 months from now is a major power player in the present lore.

I'd agree that aesthetically speaking, Sion was good.

I'm still bummed that he lost his boss as hell ult.

Triple3TJul 24, 20172 votes

Honestly wished they keep him as is. I don't see any problems with him. He's one of the few champs with no mobility that still works due to his cc.

VelvetCrotchJul 25, 20172 votes

http://imgur.com/gallery/MHbJXjZ

LunSeiSleideeJul 25, 20171 votes

Nice, but needs more birdarms!

GaliöJul 26, 20172 votes

Prepare your anus for Galio treatment. J.k I doubt they will fuck him as much as Galio. Excuse my language.

VelvetCrotchJul 23, 20171 votes

no
yes
yes
no 5)maybe

AmenPersonJul 23, 20172 votes

The fifth option will probably still be a thing in his kit, all because Rakan has an interaction with him because of it. It's not unheard to remove an interaction, but this is Riot, and they're lazy.

Lord JerichoJul 24, 20173 votes

Rioters openly commented on Reddit that they'll remove this interaction if it doesn't fit Swain's VGU.

VelvetCrotchJul 24, 20171 votes

I like that most Riot- Designers don't think in small rooms, but in open places. :-) (out of the box)

Valaran NaraJul 24, 20171 votes

Age: I feel like if he's not bald everyone would freak. I can deal with him being in his 40s and not 70s.

Limpwalk: Crippled. Just show that he has sustained an injury. I don't need him limping as long as they can show that he suffered an injury and live through it

Beatrice: I feel as though that's a part of his character that will be around regardless. Lore wise, Janna's Zephyr became her. She is the bird that always flew around her, so at the least, I would asume that Beatrice would still remain somewhere for his VGU.

Shape-shifting: Not necessary. Shape-shifting was a game play thing. If he does transform, it's because he used necromancy and dark magic as we know he went through Boram's tomes as well as dealt with the Black Rose; however, I wouldn't bother freaking out or be surprised if his transformation is not a giant bird demon.

It's not really about keeping the EXACT same item or thing. It's about taking a detail, breaking it down, and re-imagining it. Everyone chooses specifics as opposed to generalizations of said character.

Because, let's face it: as drastically different as what Poppy and Galio may appear from their pre-rework selves, there are plenty of similarities that connect them.

Afterall, while Poppy may be oblivious, she's still stubborn, strong-willed, and determined. Her perseverance which lead old Poppy to take the helmet to Jarvan is the same concept of perseverance that leads her to constantly search for the her, and when it feels like she'll never make it or fail, she looks around her. She looks in her hand at what must be done, and she does it. That was Poppy's core as a character: Indisputable determination and perseverance.

Also, Galio's identity is a stalwart, stone construct made to defend and protect. Old Galio failed in his purpose, failing into despair as he found himself unable to do the one thing he was meant for, safeguard and protect against enemy mages. A lone, sad yordle rested below him, wallowing in despair, but said Yordle refused to give up and keep moving. Galio, in turn began to move again and leave his dormancy to do what he does: protect.

New Galio is a construct to stop enemy mages, but he runs off magic, the thing he's meant to stop. Because of this, when he fulfills his purpose, he goes into dormancy. He is dormant because he can't do the one thing he was made to do: defend. One day, a lone, sad girl walked up to him, wallowing in her despair, began to grieve. Because of this, and her latent magic, he began to stir and then life returned to him.

^^^

You get what I'm saying, right? It's all same concept but the execution and details in between are different.

That's why age shouldn't be hyper focused on "old and crooked", but rather "long-lived" or "experienced". His age should showcase a certain amount of years of experience. Which means, he can get away with being late 30s to early 40s to accomplish that. Years after would be dependent on when they "pick him up", so to speak.

The limp shows he survived something that should have stopped him and kept him from rising to the top. It doesn't have to be him limping. He could actually be missing an arm in his new VGU and it accomplishes the same task; though the bad leg is VERY preferred.

The transformation should show his corruption through magic, so it doesn't have to be the demon bird or showcase the exact same way as we're use to seeing. Hell, it may not even be as extreme if they execute it right.

And Beatrice, a connection to a bird. To an unknown entity that is suggestive of something sinister. In all honesty, if they keep the concept of Beatrice, she may actually stay the same. I can't figure out another way of showing that damned bird unless--you know, she doesn't appear as a bird.

LunSeiSleideeJul 25, 20171 votes

Sorry, but late 30 to early 40 is NOT old. Maybe you are a teenager and for you that age looks like it is already an old age,but it is not. I do not want Swain to look as old as Darius. And why do you say SWAIN looks like he is in his 70? He NEVER looked THAT old.

The shapeshifting is a big part of Swain as we know him. I would be very veeeeeery disappointed if they remove that. Plus, we would lose the potential of a wereparrot and a wereowl.

Valaran NaraJul 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, but late 30 to early 40 is NOT old. Maybe you are a teenager and for you that age looks like it is already an old age,but it is not. I do not want Swain to look as old as Darius. And why do you say SWAIN looks like he is in his 70? He NEVER looked THAT old.

The shapeshifting is a big part of Swain as we know him. I would be very veeeeeery disappointed if they remove that. Plus, we would lose the potential of a wereparrot and a wereowl.

35-45 when he reaches the top of Noxus as a general, 50-60 being the age we see him around now which allows Darius to now be in his early 30s. Lore wise, he's been in charge for a good amount of time, so I wouldn't start him off as Finally leading Noxus when he's in his 50s.

Also, I'm 23 whose 48 yr old mother is referred to as early 30 and 56 yr old father as in his 40s.

My perspective of age by looks alone will make me give you a higher number.

I was 19 in college once...A girl thought I was in 8th grade. My friends wouldn't stop laughing for the rest of that week.

panty raiderJul 26, 20171 votes

Swain is my most played champion and my favorite one but as much as I'll miss running in 1v5 when enemy has no GW-applying items, he really needs a rework and if he gets one, I would not care if they change/remove a few key aspects of him, just like when they took away Galio's introspective personality or Yorick's limpwalk. As long as they change his kit to a more interactive/play-making kit which would fit his title as "The Master Tactician", I'll be happy. I doubt they will remove his limpwalk or change his age though since they said they wanted to keep the "essence" of Swain the same.