Her short lore now includes "brings [...] death to others". Until now, she became who she was because she refused to kill the first time she was faced with the need for it. The Sun chose her for that reason too (maybe secretly tired of the feud with the moon?). I'm pretty sure she had to kill later on, but it still isn't an usual and acceptable event for her. Don't take that away. We want our lovely, powerful protector.
Núll33 votes[deleted]
Ralanr10 votesI always feel bad for Kayle. People keep pushing as someone who blindly follows justice. They forget why she wears her helmet, because she knows it's an ugly thing ad doesn't want to brandish her face when dispensing it.
333lom3 votesAgreed; while their setting at first glance may look like Kayle=good Morgana=bad, people have been so adamant in their judgments that they see them in completely opposite roles, when that's not really the case. Kayle is not evil by default.
Ralanr3 votesThey are both meant to be grey. This is pulled off very well for the most part.
333lom4 votesExactly. That's why I like their characters and their conflict. Both Kayle and Morgana are right in some way, wrong in the other. But the majority of the community doesn't seem to perceive them like this however.
Ralanr1 votesMorgana is the underdog. People love the underdogs.
GreenLore2 votes
and
can confirm that.
kile1472 votesKayle vs Morgana and Leona vs Diana should be done like Marvel's Civil War. Kayle vs Morgana works particularly well because Kayle/Iron Man is just a (wo)man in a suit of armor with some fancy tricks who fights for order at any cost. Morgana/Capt. America is the one whose power comes from within and will fight anyone to preserve freedom, even his friend/her sister.
GreenLore2 votesWell to be fair,that means she knows she is kind of extreme with her justice,but does it anyway.
Though I agree that people tend to overlook morganas bad sides and just turn kayle into an outright tyrant.
333lom17 votesYou and I think the same way. I'm all for the trope Dark Is Not Evil when there's an awesome potential for it. But I don't see the reason for Kayle and Leona to be turned into villains dressed in white and gold; I really liked their characters as positive. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who cheers for Kayle, Leona and Viktor, as opposed to Morgana, Diana and Jayce. I'd plaster the dark is not evil trope on Viktor, but not on Diana.
Núll12 votes[deleted]
333lom2 votesIt's alright, I just said what characters I personally like. I agree that line for Leona was too harsh, and I don't dislike Morgana. But Kayle also has imperfections; some people exploit them so much, they turn her into the villain.
Pyrodinium1 votesBut wasn't Leona a Rakkor, and fought alongside Pantheon?
I always found that disconnection quite jarring, since she grew in a brutal warrior society, yet is portrayed as an archetypical Shining Knight figure.
Also, from a metanarrative perspective: I think is a good step to diferentiate the Shining Knight trope that both Leona and Taric share, giving the later's upcoming relaunch.
Arkna1 votesShe was a member of the Solari, which existed alongside (and drew members from) the Rakkor, but it was a separate society.
At least until the screwed around with the lore. Now pretty much everything is up in the air.
TheImpLord1 votesLook at it from a gameplay point of view. How is her current gameplay anything like a knight defender of the weak. Leona has from the dawn of time been aggressive as hell despite her lore making her out as a non violent type so its about time the lore and gameplay give the same message. That message being 'if you so much as take one step past that minnion wave I will personally fk you up'.
333lom1 votesHer lore did not make her a non-violent type. It just depicted her as a warrior who will fight to protect, but spare the lives of her opponents whenever she can. And that even makes sense gameplay-wise: she is a support, that means she doesn't make an incredibly large amount of kills. She only disables her opponent.
TheImpLord1 votesHave you seen full ap Leona?
Headbiter3 votesWhenever I see this argument, I get the feeling people can't/don't differentiate between aggressive STYLE and disregard for life or even active enjoyment in killing someone.
Yes, she has an aggressive fighting style, most likely due to her growing up and being trained in a warrior society. But her most defining action, arguably what led to her becoming the chosen of the sun, was that she decidedly won a battle to the death so hard...that she could actually decide not to kill her opponent. I think few people understand how utterly dominating you have to be, in order to subdue an opponent who's after your life, without killin him in turn.
And as far as her abilities in-game are concerned, I see exactly that reflected: She's not just someone who takes all the beatings for someone else (that would be Braum), she's a warrior. But NONE of her abilities are designed to kill. Can they kill with enough stats? Certainly, but so can Soraka's Q and somehow I don't see anyone arguing her being a warlord.
Her Q is a shield bash, the function of which is mainly to stun, her W is a shield to protect herself, er E (the only ability that actually involves her sword) is a gap closer and her most devastating ability....is an aoe-cc effect. Her passive is the only ability that comes even close to being an ability that's appropriate for killing, and guess what: she can't even trigger it herself.
In fact, her entire kit is, as I declared above, to subdue an opponent without actually killing him. So yes, the message does come across if you know your fighting. It's just that in the general mind "Protector" is always associated with ridiculous passivity.
GreenLore5 votesShe was a Rakkor,but she always thought that protecting others is the more important thing for a warrior and when she had to fight in the Rite of Kor,a ritual where young warriors fight to the death,she spared her opponent,even though she was sentenced to death for that decision.
Ashe Jungle1 votesSame with Diana. She's still blood-frenzied. Leona is nothing like that. That death to others line was really unnecessary.
I'ma go re-read Diana's lore, but that's not exactly how I remember her.
Photos of Ghosts6 votesToo many people frustrated with authority want to blame it for everything.
Celio Hogane HD1 votesDiana was never evil, in fact i always defended the idea Leona is actually pretty rotten.
Ashe Jungle1 votesLeona and Kayle are protectors and knights. They're kinda being shoehorned into heartless justice.
Which is unfortunate, because heartless justic is already demacia's thing.
GreenLore2 votesHonestly if they make Leona already a more grey character,I wouldn't be surprised if they made kayle even more extreme(maybe outright evil?) just to differentiate the conflicts.
ADepressedLeona8 votesAs someone who has nearly 2k games with Leona, this does bother me. She was always this kind protector in my mind, that saw killing as a last restort. In fact, when she was faced with thr choice of kill or be killed, she chose to die over her opponent. To me she was the shining becon of hope to the innocent, and killing was the farthest thing from her mind. The lore given right now is honestly not long enough for me to judge though... So I'll simply have to wait for thr long version
GelsominoKiller3 votesI see the whole "brings burning death to others" as extremely out of character in Leona. To me, she's the defender archetype, the one who fights to stop the fight, and not some kind of bloodlusted killing sun-powered machine.
Also i'd like Diana to remain within the eretic, outcast and vengeful fashion, because that's why i like her, personally. She's definitely not a good character, since her personal cursade against the solari is surely morally wrong, yet her reasons and hate are totally understandable.
I'll wait the full story, though.
ADepressedLeona1 votesI see the whole "brings burning death to others" as extremely out of character in Leona. To me, she's the defender archetype, the one who fights to stop the fight, and not some kind of bloodlusted killing sun-powered machine.
Also i'd like Diana to remain within the eretic, outcast and vengeful fashion, because that's why i like her, personally. She's definitely not a good character, since her personal cursade against the solari is surely morally wrong, yet her reasons and hate are totally understandable.
I'll wait the full story, though.
Agreed on borh accounts
Narasimha7 votesI'm actually going to disagree. The old Leona was, for lack of a better term, 'flawless'. She was the embodiment of light and mercy, a paragon of virtue. Problem is, that's all she was, and all she could ever be. She didn't really have any ways to move out of that role. You can't have a person like that do a heel-face-turn without an outright cataclysmic event. Her new role takes the core of the old, but shifts it in an important way. Hell, it outright says it. She's a templar. She's still a protector, but now it seems she's a defender of the Solari rather than a more general guardian. Her shield is to defend her faith, and her sword is to purge those who would stand against it. I mean, even her VOs reflect the new aspect as much as the old. "I will break their line." and "They will be sundered." Now she has as much opportunity to rise as to fall.
Celio Hogane HD1 votes"They will be sundered."
Is thys serius? she really almost say "They will be Tsundered."?
BottleCapster4 votessunder and tsundere have completely different pronunciations.
Celio Hogane HD1 votesfor you.
Narasimha3 votesDifferent syllable emphasis. It's SUN-der, and tsun-DE-RE.
Bladeglory2 votesYou raise a good point, but if she's the "embodiment of light and mercy, a paragon of virtue" then you can always have her failing at it. After all, how many battles can she really participate in without ever losing ANY allies? How can she possibly be there every single time somebody is about to be killed? Can she save an entire village from a Noxus invasion?
She talks big, but how does she stand up to being resented by the people she saved because she didn't save all of them?
And then there's also dealing with her learning about the Solari and Diana incident. What even is her opinion on that? That's probably what you mean by cataclysmic though.
...but this is all just ideas, since we don't really get progression... just retcons and new champions. :P
Deus Imperator5 votesI always looked at leona like the gentle knight that would help anybody out of the kindess of her heart
But if needed to fight she would just leave them severely beaten up to teach a lesson, just not as far as killing
Teeter Dance1 votesI always assumed (even with her old 'refused to kill' lore) that shes killed people for the Solari because the Solari denounced them as heretics.
But I dont ever think shes evil.
Diana is the paragon of the vengeful moon. This lore update seems to be wayyy too severe of a character shift.
TheImpLord2 votesLies leona is a support who wants to fking man handle the other teams ADC till they dead.
Deus Imperator1 votesLies leona is a support who wants to fking man handle the other teams ADC till they dead.
Well, yeah, its summoners rift! no hard feelings when i go in, bash my shield into your skull,Sunder you while my ADC deals the finishing blows right?
TheImpLord1 votesVeigars quote 'know that if the tables were turned I would show you no mercy' describes what happens on the rift very well.
James Stone3 votesWhatever you expected your character to still be when the lore rework ends, prepare to be dissapointed. They'll make her a personified trope for the sake of "reaching a broader audience".
The only characters that improve from lore reworks are cases like Sion or Gangplank, that is, carton cutouts with no characters. At the very least you're getting a small/medium personality change. At worst, the fringe WMG interpretation will become the actual supported role, and fans of the old character can go eat shit, and "there'll still be material there for you to read it if you want to [paraphrased]", IE, go search third party websites for old lore.
Celio Hogane HD2 votesShe was always an avatar of hypocresy, so now i kind of dislike her less.
still she is not (well except Proyect: leona, right there she is Diana)
CasterGilgamesh1 votesi like the way you think!
Celio Hogane HD1 votesin wich part? in the part im saying literally they used Diana (or her corporse if she was dead) and stuffed her into being Leona? Or Leona hypocrisy?
CasterGilgamesh1 votesLeona hypocrisy part its pretty true since her people did slaughter the lunari while preaching peace and kindness
Celio Hogane HD1 votesYes, remember diana Quote from the (in the close future) old lore: "The sun does not reveal truth. Its light only burns and blinds."
Photos of Ghosts4 votesSo because Diana says it it's true?
Celio Hogane HD1 votesNo, but is true anyway, try to look at the sun, sun makes you get cancer.
Photos of Ghosts3 votesholy hell we wouldn't exist without it... and cancer is by far not the main reason why you don' look at the sun...
Bladeglory6 votesWait, Leona is a hypocrite because of things other people do? Despite the fact that she chose her own death instead of following their traditions of murder?
The Solari don't preach "peace and kindness" whatsoever. They're retired war heroes whose only purpose is to revere the sun. They're monks.
...the Solari, retire their mantles of war, choosing instead to devote their lives to reverence of the sun.
They took her in, gave her equipment, and taught her how to use her powers. We don't have any lore with her past joining the League of Legends. Yes, the Solari are made out to be religious zealots, but has Leona even sided with them on anything? As far as I'm aware, she's fully independent in their wholesale slaughter.
Headbiter2 votesIn fact, one of Leona's defining acts, something that even got her killed by her people, was that she REFUSED to kill her opponent. This seems so far to be the exact opposite of what Leona is.