Kayn music: Darkin theme is just the second half of Shadow theme

Wolfeur·Jul 30, 2017·23 votes·2,844 views

I wasn't sure at first, but it seemed odd. Darkin theme is 1:41 long and Shadow theme is 3:26.

3:26 - 1:41 = 1:45

If you start the Shadow theme at 1:45 and the Darkin theme at 0:00, you'll hear exactly the same. I don't understand why the Darkin theme is included in the Shadow theme instead of each being their own theme.

14 Comments

Ed the ConquerorJul 31, 20178 votes

Hey Wolfeur ,

I am the composer of the Kayn login theme(s) and thought I'd shed some light on this.

The music was designed to be a single theme, with two sides to it: the shadow assassin/Ascended Kayn side, with Ionian influences and very much acoustic-music based, and the slayer/Rhaast part, based on synthetic sounds and drums. There is a pretty fun metric modulation between the two "sides".

The music starts with shadow assassin, then goes to Rhaast's form, goes back very shortly to shadow assassin before ending with Rhaast. I thought this would be the best way to experience the music, and the form of the piece is not a hint at anything lore-related (or even gameplay related: you can only choose one path and not transform again).

Where the confusion lies is that there should have been only one login music piece uploaded to SoundCloud - the full piece, encompassing both assassin and slayer forms. This is Kayn's login theme, and should be construed as such, with both branches of his future self available there.

As to being "lazy", I am not sure where that comment is coming from :) We've been delivering a lot of great League content lately. Speaking strictly of music, you are getting two different themes as a part of a single piece of music, which, while it was the right thing to do for Kayn, is still a decent effort for a champion. The login theme is designed to exemplify two sides of evil (lawful evil and chaotic evil) in one cohesive package. As a linear piece or split into two halves, the reaction from players makes me feel like this was a successful endeavor.

Unfortunately, you can't always reconcile linear storytelling (music played from start to end) with non-linear storytelling (such as the ability to choose one form over the other, or the ability to be presented with one version of the login screen or the other at random).

Hope this helps!

Ed the Conqueror

WolfeurJul 31, 20171 votes

Whoa, red comment!

Thanks for the clarification, Ed. I understood that the Shadow Assassin theme was actually containing both, but the Darkin one being on its own bugged me and made me doubt my understanding.

By the way, I love this theme, and I love your work in general! Also, I don't know if you worked on the Honor theme, but it gives me eargasms everytime I hear it! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Chromatic EagleJul 31, 20171 votes

I know you're not a lore writer, but what makes Kayn evil beyond Rhaast?

Also since you're here, I wanted to ask about VGU logins. I've been loving most of them (Urgot and Warwick some of my favorites), but have you ever considered doing logins for the older champions? At least the ones who received lighter reworks, like Shen and Fiora?

Ed the ConquerorJul 31, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=llm5og2E,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2017-07-31T18:37:22.763+0000)

I know you're not a lore writer, but what makes Kayn evil beyond Rhaast?

Also since you're here, I wanted to ask about VGU logins. I've been loving most of them (Urgot and Warwick some of my favorites), but have you ever considered doing logins for the older champions? At least the ones who received lighter reworks, like Shen and Fiora?

As you pointed out, I would ask your question ("what makes Kayn evil beyond Rhaast?") to a writer.

Thanks for your kind words on VGU logins (I wrote Warwick's theme). There are a few things that get in the way of us making music for older champions:

we're considerate of the fact that music is in support of development endeavors (in other words, the League stuff being developed and released gets our support) - with very few exceptions, music has always been that way for League. It provides a more cohesive understanding of our game and where it is at, IMHO;
we have pretty limited bandwidth: we're really trying our best to make the music that works best for whatever current project we have, and that takes time;
if the champ update team deems that Shen and Fiora's lighter reworks are part of that level of reworks that necessitate login screens, they would get a login theme;
from a development perspective, that music has to have value, something that people will hear. Would people listen to this music outside of any larger "push"? Probably, but not in a way that would make sense for us to invest time at the expense of bigger opportunities.

Hope this clarifies things a bit!

Chromatic EagleJul 31, 20171 votes

It does. Guess I have to hope for more VGUs, or events.

Hexs FortuneAug 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ed the Conqueror,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=llm5og2E,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2017-07-31T19:20:38.268+0000)

As you pointed out, I would ask your question ("what makes Kayn evil beyond Rhaast?") to a writer.

Thanks for your kind words on VGU logins (I wrote Warwick's theme). There are a few things that get in the way of us making music for older champions:

we're considerate of the fact that music is in support of development endeavors (in other words, the League stuff being developed and released gets our support) - with very few exceptions, music has always been that way for League. It provides a more cohesive understanding of our game and where it is at, IMHO;

we have pretty limited bandwidth: we're really trying our best to make the music that works best for whatever current project we have, and that takes time;

if the champ update team deems that Shen and Fiora's lighter reworks are part of that level of reworks that necessitate login screens, they would get a login theme;

from a development perspective, that music has to have value, something that people will hear. Would people listen to this music outside of any larger "push"? Probably, but not in a way that would make sense for us to invest time at the expense of bigger opportunities.

Hope this clarifies things a bit!

I just want to compliment the team on how amazing the Bilgewater musicwas.

Also Aurelion Sol's theme <3

TheHappyReaperzJul 30, 20177 votes

Was that Riot just being lazy, or is one of those sneaky hints that Rhaast has something to do with the Shadow Isles? After all, the Ruined King tried to bring his wife back to life there, maybe the energy from that woke up some sleeping Darkins.

GenoXxJul 31, 20171 votes

Riot has been lazy lately

TwitchInMyPantsJul 31, 20171 votes

I'd like to believe its both, the lore team does like putting obscure hints in places, albeit the last time we had something like that was Jhin release (dead champions on their profiles). Tho there's decent odds they just wanted a shortcut to get a cool song for the log-in and there was no actual lore intention.