Legitimate Question: Would you have been less upset if Varus had fused with a straight couple?

Kairoptra·Dec 3, 2017·13 votes·1,240 views

Just a thought that popped into my head, not trying to make a statement or anything :P

Please upvote if you feel so inclined, I want to get as many opinions as possible*[slayer-jinx-wink]*

EDIT: Sorry for any miscommunication; I didn't mean to say that I thought the fact that 2/3 of Varus was gay was the problem. As I said, it was just a question that popped into my head. I didn't mean to sound like I was ragging on people for not liking the new lore because there was a gay couple. Once again, sorry for the inconvenience.

43 Comments

feeding timeDec 3, 201713 votes

I think the whole Varus ordeal has gone on long enough. (Not to bag on your post or anything, just sharing my opinion)

I come to the boards to laugh and learn, not roll my eyes at this lore nonsense. I just think that everyone should accept his new lore whether they like it or not. Let the man be gay and fuse with whomever he pleases lol

MarshbouyDec 3, 20174 votes

I come to the boards to laugh and learn

stay in memes and games then.

Seriously.

There is precious little to learn here.

KairoptraDec 3, 20171 votes

I know what you mean, but I figured that if this kind of stuff is going to be happening for a while, I might as well get some fun out of it :P

MarbelaraDec 3, 20173 votes

Well it is a lore board. Its bound to persist for a time. If anything i think its good that the player base is sending riot feedback that something went wrong so they can learn and grow from it, as well as affirm the praised parts.

HalfTangibleDec 3, 201712 votes

... Not really?

Making Val or Kai a girl wouldn't change the fact that Varus no longer chooses duty over family, which gets them killed and ends up being his motivation for taking up the arrow of vengeance.

I'd also have numerous questions about how the fusion between man and woman equals a man in demon-pants.

Well I Say I WinDec 3, 20177 votes

Most of the backlash on the forums has nothing to do with him being gay.

KairoptraDec 3, 20173 votes

Sorry for the miscommunication, but this message was not my intention. I didn't mean to say that I thought the fact that 2/3 of Varus was gay was the problem. As I said, it was just a question that popped into my head. I didn't mean to sound like I was ragging on people for not liking the new lore because there was a gay couple. I'm going to edit my post to help ensure it doesn't happen again. Once again, sorry for the inconvenience.

Well I Say I WinDec 3, 20174 votes

I'm saying that no one cares that he's gay. So to answer your question directly, no. No one is more upset because he's gay. They are upset because his entire story got changed.

MarshbouyDec 3, 20176 votes

I'm saying that no one cares that he's gay. So to answer your question directly, no. No one is more upset because he's gay.

this is not true. I have read plenty of comments talking about "PC culture" "Inclusivity" "making varus a trans black woman" and much more. It might not be the source of most of the upset people, but there is a sizable amount of people who are angry about "PC culture tumblerinas taking over league of legends."

KairoptraDec 3, 20171 votes

My point exactly; I suggest you re-read my response if that wasn't clear.

Well I Say I WinDec 3, 20171 votes

Yeah, I get what you're asking. But now at this point I am unsure why you would bother to ask such a question.

"I know you guys aren't mad about Varus being gay, but is anyone mad that Varus is gay?"

Nik NikersonDec 3, 20171 votes

And you're wrong. Not everyone is upset he's gay, but there are certainly some people that are.

QuephaDec 3, 20174 votes

I would be exactly as upset, the actual content of the new lore has almost nothing to do with why I'm upset.

I think I like the new story on its own more because they're gay, although I can't really be sure, but that's simply not relevant.

MysterQDec 3, 20174 votes

I will be honest here. I may be less upset, we all have inherent biases even if we don't wan tot admit.

That said, I am not upset that there is a gay character (although Varus isn't gay). And my siding with old lorers is not because Varus is gay. The fact that Valmar/Kai are gay just drew so much more attention to this than to any other change, because social issues. My feelings I think are the same though. I don't know anything about Valmar or Kai, the story was confusing, and Varus is not relatable now.

Whyte LyonDec 3, 20172 votes

Is it possible to still like, perhaps even adore a character even if they're not relatable and/or respectable?

MysterQDec 3, 20172 votes

Absolutely. I will firmly admit I have not read much lore, I play the game to play the game. But some people are into the lore and this topic blew up, so I involved myself.

One of the topics that gets a fair amount of discussion is. "Make a gay character" because the gay community wants to be represented, they want a character they can relate to. I have said in the past that isn't important (don't have to relate to every character), but I would have no problem with a gay character as long as it was done without agenda (very hard to do).

So I mean instantly, this story has related to some of the community. And that is great. But for someone (I don't know where you stand) to say the character can be good without being related to, takes away one of the biggest drivers (imo) of this change. They wanted the community to have someone to relate to, but in doing so other parts of the community have lost that identification. And who is Riot to determine which group to pick.

Absolutely, you don't need to relate to any character. But this lore was made so we can relate to him. Unfortunately for me (and others), it has become completely unrelatable. And I am not even talking about the sexual orientation. I am talking about the Varus-monster who has no backstory. How can I possible relate to that. There is nothing about his character that I adore.

Ignore the gameplay, ignore Valmar, ignore Kai. Can you ADORE Varus the darkin? Because we are varus, not valmar not kai.

Whyte LyonDec 3, 20171 votes

But this lore was made so we can relate to him.

It depends on what side of the fence you're standing. Beyond that it's just subjective and being subjective does not make it definitively a bad update nor give anyone the right to proclaim the update was handled poorly or worse, should have been saved for a new champ instead.

Other parts of the community have lost identification.

Losing you're family / livelihood is objectively not a relatable trope, nor should anyone mistakenly argue that it is. Yet this influx of new people coming to SA&S seem to demand it was a source of identification.

Regardless it's just one of a million setups to build an individual character, yet setup is not a primary selling point. In regards to lore context makes these characters work but if one is recycled and within context the changes work on their own merit then why pretend like the old was more valuable? All they're doing is being the defiant teenager looking for evidence to justify being rebellious.

Identification should be irrelevant for appreciating Varus new or old lore.

There is nothing about his (new) character that I adore

No I don't adore old or new Varus, not like I adore Skarner- a familiar daddy figure with the exact same themes of retribution and grief or is he not acceptable compensation?

https://78.media.tumblr.com/0103a3eedba0e006f9ec683d1b95bf01/tumblr_ntocy23OmO1uedmhyo1_400.gif

redniwediSDec 3, 20173 votes

I'd have been less upset if Varus, from his old lore, had his wife retconned into a man, rather than old Varus being turned into a Darkin.

IDarkIFireDec 3, 20173 votes

This is a trick question. The question should be, in order of being correct and to hit on WHY exactly Varus fans are upset - Would you be upset if the old lore was still scrapped and he fused with a straight couple? People are not just upset because they are gay, get the point already. It's because the whole essence of the story was changed. The fact that the original Varus was a man who lost his wife and child, rather than 2 gay lovers and a darkin fusion, only ADDS to the displeasure, because these things are far apart, but is not the only reason. Think of it as adding gas to a fire - because that frankly happens each time people throw in homosexualism in a discussion.

KairoptraDec 3, 20171 votes

IDarkIFireDec 3, 20172 votes

Thank you, very correct of you :)

Nik NikersonDec 3, 20171 votes

The essence of the story isn't really changed that much: A gifted archer loses a loved one, and is driven into the waiting hands of an evil spirit. That's pretty much the same. Yes, details of the story have been changed, but the essence of the story is pretty much intact.

IDarkIFireDec 3, 201710 votes

You aren't a careful reader then. They didn't loose eachother but fused into an immortal being (since we know darkin are immortal as Rhaast keeps saying when he respawns). He has no loved one to avenge, they will be fused together forever untill they can separate again (this was stated at the end of the new lore segment). So yeah, nothing is the same really, what has the new Varus to avenge - that Val and Kai's privacy is disturbed by a Darkin watching their every interaction, because they are mushed together ? Don't go about the Darkin race, that's not the point either and is nothing like the original story. Darkin are hell bent on destroying mankind.

Nik NikersonDec 3, 20172 votes

And I think it's more complicated than that. Kai was still killed (or at least mortally wounded). Their spirits may still be together, but Kai was still taken from Val. Val will never be able to hold Kai again; Never look into his eyes; Never feel his touch. The Noxians still inflicted horrible pain upon his loved one. They attacked his home, his neighbors, and his family. Val and Kai were protectors of the Ionian people, and the Noxians still killed the people they were supposed to protect. I feel like that's possibly enough reasons for seeking vengeance. I'd probably be a little upset if I were put in that position.

MysterQDec 3, 20172 votes

The end of the comic shows them 'symbolically' holding each other. Sure he may not have physical touch, but they are even closer now. They attacked his home... and no one important died, mom alive, no mention of death even. His neighbors and family are even more nameless than the original lore. Val and Kai ... idk were they protectors? they were hunters who may have killed evil animals... but that is only semi-protectors. They weren't warriors, it wasn't their job to save the town.

Nik NikersonDec 3, 20171 votes

Yes, they weren't warriors, nor was it strictly their job to ward off foreign armies, but they still did what they did to protect their fellow Ionians and keep them safe. And they still leapt into action to stop the Noxians despite it not being their job.

I dunno, I don't feel like it's that far off the essence of his old story. You're not wrong for feeling the way you do. Just different ways of interpreting the story I guess.

MysterQDec 3, 20171 votes

I think it is the best response. We all have our own opinions. Some people connected way more with the story than I did, just like other fans connected better to the old lore.

ArakadiaDec 3, 20172 votes

Some people are upset because hes in a homosexual relationship. It seems like the majority are not but there are absolutely some people who think the new lore is problematic because of Varus's lover's gender and not the other issues.

And its not even usually because their homophobic.

MysterQDec 3, 20171 votes

I can understand it if it is because they don't want Riot politicizing their game.

But that obviously makes it hard to ad any gay character, so I can see why Riot had to do it sometime. But doing so by erasing a character has gotten it a lot more attention than I think they thought (even though they knew it would get attention).

DariusDemiurgeDec 3, 20173 votes

I'd be equally upset. The biggest problem is he is no longer the man lost and fueled by hate because of the worst loss anyone can endure in life.

He no longer willingly joined with the corruption/darkin.

He was what I might have become had i lost a few key people in my life before natural end, obviously minus crazy demon power.

Loss of most loved ones > purgatory like existence with most loved one's essence.

KrigjerDec 3, 20173 votes

I liked how in the old lore, he chose his duty over his family, and paid dearly for it.

I don't care that he was retconned as gay, but it annoys me that they turned his pain into nothing but a sad love story (I'll sacrifice a part of myself to save the one I love, but with unforeseen consequences) .

In the old lore, Varus knew what would happen if he stayed at that temple. He did it anyway.

MooooooooreDakkaDec 3, 20173 votes

I think making them a straight couple would have been better in exactly one way and that would be probably making it easier to tell the two characters apart.

Hexs FortuneDec 3, 20172 votes

Then the question would be what gender is Vaarus haha

Nik NikersonDec 3, 201715 votes

Varus self identifies as a weapon.

MysterQDec 3, 20171 votes

with nice abs

SEKAIDec 3, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=l0emu4gm,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-12-03T06:17:22.631+0000)

Varus self identifies as a weapon.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME THEIR GENDER???

Nik NikersonDec 3, 20171 votes

... yes?

Chigara AshadaDec 3, 20172 votes

I would honestly feel the same regardless of what it was. The sheer problem here is simply just that what the lore change did was it took traits away from a character who was once good or at least in some way relatable to some degree. While League of Legends lore was never meant to be amazing stuff as most of us were more here for the game. It didn't mean the lore couldn't have been decent. While his story is a trope it also showed he was a human character, and he had felt properly for making a decision he wasn't ready to see the consequences of. His lore is different because while it did have injustice it held this theme of he knew he could have made the right choice and he wanted to make things right.

Then with his new lore. It went from somebody who actually had motives and a soul to just a wandering couple who ended up in danger. The reckless actions of these two is what got them to become the darkin, unlike how the self reflections and regrets of one man had made him take the course he felt could make up for what he had done wrong. Both concepts are overused but it felt as if one had a moral grey area of a character while another got forgiveness for making an arguably horrible mistake.

TerraRisingDec 3, 20172 votes

To answer the question: I'd like to think so, but I will admit that a boy-girl romance might make the pill slightly easier to swallow (as it were).

wildfox99Dec 3, 20171 votes

Would you have been less upset if Varus had fused with a straight couple?

it'd make it even worse,i mean why if a man and a woman get "fused" the result have to be a man with no female traits?

at least it's a bad lore which makes sense

MarbelaraDec 3, 20171 votes

I would be just as upset.

I find myself adoring Val and Kai's throughoutly underlined love for each other, but because the change was way too massive and sudden - and quite disrespectful of the character's estabilished fan following, with all discussion made controversial and all changes seemingly unrevertable - I stand on the endgame that Varus retains the body and mind and the couple departs together into the afterlife, unburdened, leaving the character somewhat close to what he used to be.

Of course, I am glad they finally confirmed/weaved in the darkin theory, and if the darkin Varus actually secretly shares his history with the Ionian Varus (who is at this point retconned out, rip in pasta) I will be ecstatic and somewhat forgiving.

In the long run, I guess I understand the changes made to the character. I can see the potential.

But man, next time, let these devs just make someone new.

Reworking champions is meant to be a remastering. Not a scrap-it-do-it-overing.

Caring deeply for a character whose entire estabilished existence can be unmade in one big patch is not worth it, so just as Riot tries to implement more complex lore, it would be a shame to see the fans turn away from them in distrust.

XurrealDec 3, 20171 votes

The issue isn't with the story alone. The continuity of the character has been compromised.

We are left with Varus as he was in a state of disarray. He's valiant in game, but his bio claims he is a Demon among the Mortals of this world seeking only the elimination of every last human being on Runterra.

It wouldn't be so bad if it werent for the fact that Varus is supposed to be Heroic. His retroactive continuity session left him splintered and fractured (double entendre). We're left with a cliff-hanger that is totally up to the viewers discretion to carry out.

If it were a Stand-alone movie we are talking about here, that wouldn't be bad, because movies of this style of ending have long since held endearment to communities that base themselves around those movies (Lookin at you Equilibrium, with your poor Gun-Kata choreography and time-skips).

This is an essential character to the game we are talking about here. Every usable champion in this game evolves with the game, with every new champion that comes out. Currently, this feels like a sort of low-key Earth One Superman Prime retcon where it is just a case of "Different Writers have differing views on what the Intellectual Property should be like.

I think this is what has everyone jumbled (We're not counting the homophobic part of the community. We all know they just see the homosexuallity as a bulls-eye to aim at).