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Ascension - What is it?

SaltyToplaneGoat··5 votes·1,499 views

So, now long after the Shurima Event, I got to the question: what exactly IS "Ascension"?

All we know is that it is supposed to be an empowerment ritual used in old shuriman times while using the energy of the sun. But how does it work? Are there downsides to it? If it was so awesome, why wasn't every Shuriman an ascended? Are there possible side effects? And, of course, could ascension be replicated by "modern" methods? (aka Hextech/Techmaturgy).

I will be talking about six champions here: Nasus Azir Renekton Xerath Cassiopeia TwistedFate

Yes, I know Cassipaia is cursed and not ascended, but I will get to her and her curse since it might be an interesting topic that might be connected to this. And about Twisted Fate... I'll explain that later.

So, about the first three. At first it seems like ascension doesn't turn you into a generic magical super-human and there seems to be some individuality. But how does it work? Does a popup plop up in your mind the moment you ascend, asking you to choose appearance and distrubute skill points? Not very likely. It seems like ascension turns you into what you think you are. Sounds weird, but let me explain.

It's very likely that the Shuriman Ascension technology was shrouded in mystery and religion, even for the shuriman people. So maybe some thought that it would turn people into gods or make them equal to gods somehow. Now, let's imagine that the highest god resembles a bird-man. So what form comes first to mind if an emperor thinks of becoming "a god"? That bird-man-god. Azir views himself as the "Emperor of the Sands" - what is his power? Sand control.

It's very likely that the same thing happened during Nasus' and Renekton's ascenseion. During the process they identified themself with their gods who were closest to their profession and turned into something that was similiar to how they imagined them.

Xerath on the other hand... is what could be called "true ascension" - because of his desire for ultimate freedom he just got that: being free of everything, even of a mortal body. He didn't want to become something "similiar to a god", he just wanted to be "free" - quite fitting for a former slave.

Now, why did I list Cassipaia before? Actually it's quite simple. If the appearances of ascended/half-human beings show their "true being", how would the people of Shurima react to someone with the body of a snake - an animal that has probably quite some bad reputation there?

The cell where Xerath and Renekton where held was secured with a defense mechanism, made to scare people away.* "If you open this tomb and free the evil inside, all shall know that YOU were the one who betrayed Shurima and sided with the traitor"*. I can imagine the snake curse being some form of "highest possible punshiment" in shuriman law, since it's basicially an excommunication from society - who would help someone branded as a traitor?

Ok, and now to Twisted Fate.

Empowerment through ritual? Check. Ritual conducted by a guy who's some kind of magic-pro? Check. Said pro is called Xavier Rath, what sounds awefully close to "Xerath"? Check. Possibility for a being like Xerath to use illusion magic and blend in with modern society? VERY HIGH.

OK, but why would Xerath be interested in replicating the ascension ritual? One possibility could be the hunger for more power, trying to ascend even further. Another one could be "I lead the world to absolute freedom, EVERYONE SHALL ASCEND AND BECOME IMMORTAL LIGHTENING BLOBS LIKE ME!" - we should keep in mind that we have no idea what Xerath is planing since he left the tomb. Or maybe he's just playing a bit of "mad scientist", we can't know that.

But why isn't Twisted Fate a half animal or some form of sentinent blue light? It's simple, because Twisted Fate never asked of being turned into that. All he wanted was magic, and that's what he got. He might be immortal though, but how would he know? For that he would needs his powers for some decades to realize he doesn't age.

Tl;dr: Ascension seems to be bound to the subjective expectations to the result of the ascending person. Also: Beware of people with suspicious names.

Your opinions on this?

25 Comments

Necrolegion892 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kbcxAhEN,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-16T20:00:55.506+0000)

So, now long after the Shurima Event, I got to the question: what exactly IS "Ascension"?

All we know is that it is supposed to be an empowerment ritual used in old shuriman times while using the energy of the sun. But how does it work? Are there downsides to it? If it was so awesome, why wasn't every Shuriman an ascended? Are there possible side effects? And, of course, could ascension be replicated by "modern" methods? (aka Hextech/Techmaturgy).

I will be talking about six champions here: Nasus Azir Renekton Xerath Cassiopeia TwistedFate

Yes, I know Cassipaia is cursed and not ascended, but I will get to her and her curse since it might be an interesting topic that might be connected to this. And about Twisted Fate... I'll explain that later.

So, about the first three. At first it seems like ascension doesn't turn you into a generic magical super-human and there seems to be some individuality. But how does it work? Does a popup plop up in your mind the moment you ascend, asking you to choose appearance and distrubute skill points? Not very likely. It seems like ascension turns you into what you think you are. Sounds weird, but let me explain.

It's very likely that the Shuriman Ascension technology was shrouded in mystery and religion, even for the shuriman people. So maybe some thought that it would turn people into gods or make them equal to gods somehow. Now, let's imagine that the highest god resembles a bird-man. So what form comes first to mind if an emperor thinks of becoming "a god"? That bird-man-god. Azir views himself as the "Emperor of the Sands" - what is his power? Sand control.

It's very likely that the same thing happened during Nasus' and Renekton's ascenseion. During the process they identified themself with their gods who were closest to their profession and turned into something that was similiar to how they imagined them.

Xerath on the other hand... is what could be called "true ascension" - because of his desire for ultimate freedom he just got that: being free of everything, even of a mortal body. He didn't want to become something "similiar to a god", he just wanted to be "free" - quite fitting for a former slave.

Now, why did I list Cassipaia before? Actually it's quite simple. If the appearances of ascended/half-human beings show their "true being", how would the people of Shurima react to someone with the body of a snake - an animal that has probably quite some bad reputation there?

The cell where Xerath and Renekton where held was secured with a defense mechanism, made to scare people away.* "If you open this tomb and free the evil inside, all shall know that YOU were the one who betrayed Shurima and sided with the traitor"*. I can imagine the snake curse being some form of "highest possible punshiment" in shuriman law, since it's basicially an excommunication from society - who would help someone branded as a traitor?

Ok, and now to Twisted Fate.

Empowerment through ritual? Check. Ritual conducted by a guy who's some kind of magic-pro? Check. Said pro is called Xavier Rath, what sounds awefully close to "Xerath"? Check. Possibility for a being like Xerath to use illusion magic and blend in with modern society? VERY HIGH.

OK, but why would Xerath be interested in replicating the ascension ritual? One possibility could be the hunger for more power, trying to ascend even further. Another one could be "I lead the world to absolute freedom, EVERYONE SHALL ASCEND AND BECOME IMMORTAL LIGHTENING BLOBS LIKE ME!" - we should keep in mind that we have no idea what Xerath is planing since he left the tomb. Or maybe he's just playing a bit of "mad scientist", we can't know that.

But why isn't Twisted Fate a half animal or some form of sentinent blue light? It's simple, because Twisted Fate never asked of being turned into that. All he wanted was magic, and that's what he got. He might be immortal though, but how would he know? For that he would needs his powers for some decades to realize he doesn't age.

Tl;dr: Ascension seems to be bound to the subjective expectations to the result of the ascending person. Also: Beware of people with suspicious names.

Your opinions on this?

Love your enthusiasm dude.. Mind if I write my own thoughts on the matter?

I will enlist perhaps the same characters you mentioned, plus a couple more.

Main Characters: Azir Nasus Renekton Xerath

Minor Characters: Cassiopeia Ezreal Elise TwistedFate

Technology: Throughout Runeterra's past, civilizations have risen and fallen. Almost every conflict that has happened has been because of magic and runes. In Shurima, they either created or discovered Ascension through the Sun Disk. It is possible that a previous empire created the Sun Disk and Ezreal's amulets as weapons of war. The Sun Disk granting soldiers great power at the cost of losing their humanity. Their may have also been some problems with the ritual.

Zerath may have been researching the Ascension ritual prior to the events that led to his betreyal and Shurima's demise.

Nasus used the Sun Disk to Ascend and become what he currently is. Same goes for Renekton and Azir.

Demi-Gods: There are countless god-like creatures spread over Runeterra. There is the serpent god that cursed Cassiopia, Vilemaw who transformed Elise into a spider queen, There is also Baron Nashorn, the sea serpent that was slayed by the black mist from the Shadow Isles after it attempted to save Bilgewater, Anivia, and the thunder god that gave Volibear his powers.

These demi-gods may be remnants of previous Ascension rituals, perhaps not originating from Shurima but from similar technologies and magic as the Sun Disk.

Ascension: Ascension, for all we know, is a ritual used to unlock or grant tremendous power to an individual person. The mechanism behind it is completely unknown, but perhaps it draws on some sort of symbolism. Each shape representing the type of power.

Nasus became a canine creature, possibly due to the symbolism behind creature. Dogs are loyal companions to men, and in most cases serve to guard their owners from harm and protect them. Nasus may have taken the shape of a canine due to the responsibility he inherited or granted by people who prepared the ritual. Maybe he was born with a birthmark that locked him in that role!

Renekton became an alligator possibly due to his position as a soldier. The alligator may have represented, patience and savagery. Patience to prepare for war and savagery to prevail in war. Alligators typically do not go out on a blood rage unless hungry or provoked.

Azir became a bird. He was tasked with overseeing his empire and what better way than from the air.

Zerath is the special case. He violated or circumvented the limitations imposed by the Sun Disk Ascension ritual and ascended into a different being. He transformed into energy, symbolizing raw power. We do not know however how Zerath deviated from the rest using the same ritual, but the fact that he deviated could hint at other possibilities.

Possibilities: The fact that Zerath was able to violate the limitations imposed by the Ascension ritual may in fact give way to things like the Darkin, Sion, Shyvana, Galio, Iceborn, Gnar, and possibly others like the Ruined King of the Shadow Isles to exist. The Ascension ritual may be some sort of universal ritual practiced by long gone civilizations to gain power. Some may have modified it, while others may have put limitations on it to prevent cases like Zerath from happening(ironic though as it still happened).

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

If I understand your thesis correctly, you view every kind of human (+yordle) empowerment as a result of the ascension technology. While this is a good viewpoint there's a mistake to it: All ascension is a empowerment, but not all empowerment is ascension. Ascension only describes the very process of empowerment guided by subjective perception. It is nowhere to be said that Ascension is the basis to all possible empowerment, but just one aspect of it.

I wouldn't view Ezreal as Ascended since he's just using Shurima-Tech (as I would like to call ancient shuriman artifacts), he's not empowered in the way that it would change him on a basic level. The gauntlet is a tool amplifying his magic powers, nothing less, nothing more.

Cassiopaia is, as we both stated before, not ascended either since she didn't chose her form. But she is, without a doubt, a victim of Shurima-Tech. The massive stone snake, that came to live and bit her, wasn't a god, but a defense mechanism (although normal people would have thought that it was a god, being religious and all...)

Elise, on the other hand, might be the same as Cassiopaia, but obviously not connected to Shuriman-Tech since she was empowered by another sentinent being - the words "curse" or "blessing" are completly replaceable in this, since they are just normative descriptions. I think it's clear that every empowerment that is guided by something else aside the empowered person is not ascension, but something else.

About the Demi-Gods you mean... The Darkin are shrouded in mystery, but we have to be carefull if they are human actually. "The darkin blade" might also be refering to the living sword. Maybe the other darkin are also just "things" with a sentinence?

Aniva is a local spirit, something that can be described the "soul" of the freljord. She changes with the land she's conected with. The only thing that seems to be a real deity seems to be the thunder god from Volibears lore... but that requires more investigation. Vilemaw seems to be like just some really strong spider spirit empowered by the Harrowing...

About the others you mentioned... Shyvanna is a half-dragon, no empowerment or ascnesion here. Galio is a a golem, not an empowered human, Sion is nothing more than a puppet fueled with the blood of his enemies. It's quite a suprirse that his sentinence has survived the necromantic process.

Gnar is not an ascendant either since his empowerment isn't permanent - it might be some form of primitive magic tho...

And finally, the Iceborn. They are closest to the ascention process I think. Since they had turned into ice-elementals it would be safe to say that they might be on the same level as Xerath. (or at least Braum and Lissandra are). I still belive that the Iceborn and the watchers are a product of the Void. let's think about it, the void is a place shrouded in eternal darkness, usually cold as fuck since it doesn't have a sun (Cho Gath: "The sunlight, it BURNS!" "I miss the darkness of the void"- Vel'koz). It might have temperatures similiar to those of outer space - the ideal enviorment to find something unnatural as true ice, don't you think so? ^^

Motajo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kbcxAhEN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-17T08:51:14.576+0000)All ascension is a empowerment, but not all empowerment is ascension.

Like squares and rectangles

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

It's hard to argue with a logic like that... ^^

Necrolegion891 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kbcxAhEN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-17T08:51:14.576+0000)

If I understand your thesis correctly, you view every kind of human (+yordle) empowerment as a result of the ascension technology. While this is a good viewpoint there's a mistake to it: All ascension is a empowerment, but not all empowerment is ascension. Ascension only describes the very process of empowerment guided by subjective perception. It is nowhere to be said that Ascension is the basis to all possible empowerment, but just one aspect of it.

I wouldn't view Ezreal as Ascended since he's just using Shurima-Tech (as I would like to call ancient shuriman artifacts), he's not empowered in the way that it would change him on a basic level. The gauntlet is a tool amplifying his magic powers, nothing less, nothing more.

Cassiopaia is, as we both stated before, not ascended either since she didn't chose her form. But she is, without a doubt, a victim of Shurima-Tech. The massive stone snake, that came to live and bit her, wasn't a god, but a defense mechanism (although normal people would have thought that it was a god, being religious and all...)

Elise, on the other hand, might be the same as Cassiopaia, but obviously not connected to Shuriman-Tech since she was empowered by another sentinent being - the words "curse" or "blessing" are completly replaceable in this, since they are just normative descriptions. I think it's clear that every empowerment that is guided by something else aside the empowered person is not ascension, but something else.

About the Demi-Gods you mean... The Darkin are shrouded in mystery, but we have to be carefull if they are human actually. "The darkin blade" might also be refering to the living sword. Maybe the other darkin are also just "things" with a sentinence?

Aniva is a local spirit, something that can be described the "soul" of the freljord. She changes with the land she's conected with. The only thing that seems to be a real deity seems to be the thunder god from Volibears lore... but that requires more investigation. Vilemaw seems to be like just some really strong spider spirit empowered by the Harrowing...

About the others you mentioned... Shyvanna is a half-dragon, no empowerment or ascnesion here. Galio is a a golem, not an empowered human, Sion is nothing more than a puppet fueled with the blood of his enemies. It's quite a suprirse that his sentinence has survived the necromantic process.

Gnar is not an ascendant either since his empowerment isn't permanent - it might be some form of primitive magic tho...

And finally, the Iceborn. They are closest to the ascention process I think. Since they had turned into ice-elementals it would be safe to say that they might be on the same level as Xerath. (or at least Braum and Lissandra are). I still belive that the Iceborn and the watchers are a product of the Void. let's think about it, the void is a place shrouded in eternal darkness, usually cold as fuck since it doesn't have a sun (Cho Gath: "The sunlight, it BURNS!" "I miss the darkness of the void"- Vel'koz). It might have temperatures similiar to those of outer space - the ideal enviorment to find something unnatural as true ice, don't you think so? ^^

Love your reply!!!

Most of the things I said where just my own speculations and theories.

The way I think about Ascension is similar to how Alchemy is practiced in Full Metal Alchemist. No matter where in that world you travel, the alchemy is the same or some derivation of it. I believe that Ascension might have some similarity in Runeterra. It may be some form of ancient magic ritual with small derivations depending on where and who it is practiced by, but essentially is the same thing. It gives powers or as you said it, empowers individuals.

Gnar and his people may be an early example of it. In his story, his people were harassed by some malevolent being/creature. Gnar stood up and went berserk to defend his kin. He may have been his kind's ascended. They may have used what they knew about ascension to give one of their heroes the power to fight off this creature and thus Gnar became ascended. Gnar is the only one known of his kind to gain tremendous power like that and lets not forget that he is somewhat immortal. Even being frozen for a millenia didn't kill Gnar where other living things would probably die due to cellular ruptures from ice crystals expanding inside their cells.

Other cultures may have done the same thing to defend themselves. The Darkin, like Aatrox may have used some form of ascendancy to become powerful too. Their method may have differed or not as they locked their power to some sort of weapon, but even the living sword of Aatrox may very well be a manifestation of his power into a physical item.

The reason why I also brought up Shyvana is because of genetics. Notice how when Nasus, Azir, and Renekton ascended they took on a different shape and species. The only thing that can bridge two species together in Runeterra that we currently know of is Ascension or some derivation of it. Shyvana could be the product of some partnership between humans and dragons long ago. To give some proof to this, I will employ the Dragon Slayers. Dragon Slayers were powerful humans who hunted down and killed dragons. Dragons, in Runeterra, are intelligent creatures. Shyvana's father and his followers may have tried to broker a truce to stop the hunting and unite both species through some ascension. Now I do not want to continue this much with more speculation, but I will add this about Shyvana: Some within her father's kind(dragons) may not have liked the truce and the product(Shyvana), so they branded Shyvana and her father heretics. Not everyone has to like the same thing, just like how Zerath saw no wrong in his Ascension, others thought about it as heresy and betrayal.

These are just my theories as it would give some cohesion to all these events in which someone became powerful. I believe that even magic in Runeterra can be broken down scientifically into fundamental pieces. Magic may very well just be some kind of element with the same properties everywhere in LoL's universe. The same as how we use electrons and their forces associated with them to produce varying things like; televisions, radios, batteries, etc....

EDIT: I forgot about Warwick... He is the product of chemicals, but his lore is old. Maybe it will get some new treatment to fall in line with current release champions.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Gnar I hope you realize that Gnar is much older than Shurima is. He's basicially a caveman, using primitive magic - yepp, magic, because that's what his tranformation is: he takes his own image of "being strong" and forces it into existence.

This magic might be the basis for ALL empowerment processes that might follow up in the future, but from Gnar to Shurima millenia will pass. His species might be the first one to use magic as some kind of empowerment, but until this process will be refined and crafted into that what we call ascension...

I'm not sure if he was actually frozen to kill him... what if someone had thrown him into the freezer to "preserve" him somehow? The only being that comes to mind would be Anivia who is even older than Gnar.

Aatrox Your thesis has a basic flaw: you think of the Darkin as a previously human race, although not even that is proven yet. There are many hints that "Aattrox" is the sword, his body nothing more than a hollow puppet. But how can a sword live? My theory is that the Darkin are manifestations of certain aspects (Aatrox being "War", another one maybe being "Hunger"? Or "Peace"? Or "Greed"? Many possibilities here...) who gained a certain level of sentience.

Shyvana Well, her Dad's a dragon. Kinda explains that. Ascension isn't the only way of putting species together. Weird magic and normal sex should do the trick too (that sounds kinda "wtf" now, I know). Dragons are proud and yet arrogant creatures and half-bloods are generally looked down upon.

Warwick He's the product of pissing of Soraka... it's a curse, similar to Cassiopaia's. Let's think a moment. Shurima Tech seems to utilize sun-energy. The sun is a star. Soraka is the "Starchild". Soraka's curse on Warwick might be the VERY SAME thing that happened to Cassiopaia - just much, MUCH stronger, his tranformation slowly eating away his human mind. She cursed him to make him "look as corrupted as he is inside".

insaiyanbacca1 votes

this minus the cass part was what i thought about posting earlier today, this is good!

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Glad you like it ^^

I had the feeling I should include Cassipaia's curse in here since its functionality seems to be similiar to the ascension process, with the difference that she can't choose the result of the tranformation, but is forced into the lamina-body.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

yeah i loved the cass part

LANWhale1 votes

Hm not going to lie, the Xerath and Twisted Fate connections seems a bit....forced if you would.

The idea that Ascension alters your form depending as what you see as "higher up", is very interesting and i like it. But may I offer another one of my own Champions to this?

Ah but it seems I still need to research him a bit more, my apologies for this but well, lets just say hes quite the package.

turkeyBACON1 votes

{quoted}

Hm not going to lie, the Xerath and Twisted Fate connections seems a bit....forced if you would.

The idea that Ascension alters your form depending as what you see as "higher up", is very interesting and i like it. But may I offer another one of my own Champions to this?

Ah but it seems I still need to research him a bit more, my apologies for this but well, lets just say hes quite the package.

Your "own" champions? like one you made up? I don't see how that will aid the conversation since it'll just take it off topic into a tangent that's not really relevant to the discussion/theorizing of "cannon" lore. You should talk about your ideas without talking about your champ.

LANWhale1 votes

Oh, what timing. No not my champion but offer a champion, sorry if i was unclear.

But now then, the champion that I want to propose is Udyr.

As we all know Ascension seems to have a tie to animals, in the sense that the majority of Ascended are animal in appearance( the exception being Xerath). Not only that but has to do with the Sun disc, which amplifies the power of the Sun if i am correct.

So with that allow me to explain why Udyr is possibly an Ascended.

Udyr meets the requirements of having a connection with animals, by using there powers and gaining their quality. So then why does he not look like one then? Well the second part of theory should explain this. Udyr was born on the red moon, something that doesn't happen commonly and only once a year. The sun is the source of the moonlight, meaning that the power the sun has is tranfsered to it. So the Sun transfers its energy to the moon but then what? Well this can explain why the moon turns red.

On that day, the sun may release an extra amount of energy to it causing the moon to turn red. In turn being exposed to it can cause one to go threw are makeshift Ascencion ritual. But the "ritual" can only happen when on birth. Why only on birth? because when one become ascended they go threw a "re-birth" but since it isn't the full power of the sun it has to meet a more stricter requirements.

So what I have is: -Udyr was born under the Red Moon -The Moon turns red when an extra amount of energy is released from it -The moon acting like some sort of make shift Sun Disc, can transfer the energy to a new born

turkeyBACON1 votes

Interesting ideas but i don't think the Cass part makes logical sense. Why would they make a curse that turns you into snake (or a version of a detestable/lowest creature you think of subconsciously or consciously) to mark you and banish you, BUT the curse also empowers you? The curse makes your enemies stronger? How does that make any sense?

Honestly, I don't think the narrative team thought the whole ascension story line through and your attempts at explanations are commendable. I don't think this one works though.

Also I've posted about this before but it's implied that the ascendee can chose their final form by wearing a helm that depicts the animal. Azir wears a golden hawk helm and eventually becomes a golden hawk.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Actually, that makes sense. The curse is not to kill or torture an enemy, but to banish and exile them. The powers are just another part that makes people stay away from you (because who stays close to poisionous snakes?) and forces you to live alone in the wilderness - there those powers ensure your surival.

The curse is exile and excommunication, that's the intended purpose. There are worse punishments than death - being alone and hated for the rest of your life sounds kinda dark, doesn't it?

So... and to that helmet theory. What is they pick the helmet... because they identified with the animal-god? Also Azir didn't wear any kind of helmet in the videos from the Shurima event - that things just appeared **after **the ascension. So that thesis is invalid.

turkeyBACON1 votes

Exile doesn't make sense when you are also empowering your enemies to use that curse as a weapon against you.

So... and to that helmet theory. What is they pick the helmet... because they identified with the animal-god? Also Azir didn't wear any kind of helmet in the videos from the Shurima event - that things just appeared after the ascension. So that thesis is invalid.

I had to clarify this the first time too...I know the lore's not great, but I'm pretty certain that I'm not the only one reading it. It's stated in Xerath's lore before the corrupted ceremony took place:

Though his master’s helm revealed no human expression, and knowing that the lovingly etched metal could not respond in kind, Xerath smiled up at the soulless hawk’s face just the same, his joy genuine...

The Emperor of Shurima, the Golden Sun, Beloved of Mother Desert, soon to be Ascended, took off his helmet, revealed his proud brow and smiling eyes, and turned to his oldest and most trusted friend...

...Azir donned his helmet and strode out onto the Dais, his attendants preparing him for the godhood that would never come.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I don't think that they care much about her posions. They would just eliminate her from long range if a guard would spot her outside the city. Exiling someone is not a death sentence, as I stated before she gets those powers to surive in the wilds.

Hmmm that helmet. It seems that Shurima seems to have some ceremonial clothes, mostly inpsired by religious factors I guess. So... and what stuff would AN EMPEROR wear due to his ascension? It wouldn't be weird if he was wearing something that looks similiar to the strongest god/emperor god - the one he identified with - and here we ar eback at my thesis of subjective control of the acension-result.

Also in the lore he doesn't ascend. He only does that kinda halfway, only repeating&completing the process when Sivir revives him. And then he wears no helmet ^^

turkeyBACON1 votes

I'm fairly certain that the tomb/imprisonment was within the city. Even if it isn't, in what world does it make sense to have a gaint snake bite someone to change them into a half snake and then exile them. Why not out right kill them? Why take the risk of empowering them to come back and seek revenge? It doesn't make any bloody sense.

I'll give you the conceit that perhaps it's just ceremonial garb and its more or less coincidence that he turns into a golden bird. But your making a lot of assumptions to twist the story to follow your narrative.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I'm not twisting anything. He goes up for ascension (with the helmet) -> Xerath stuff -> Azir dead -> revive with Sivir's blood -> Ascension attempt two (without the helmet), this time successful. How is that twisting anything? He turned into that bird because THAT'S HOW HE IMAGINES HOW HE WOULD BE AS A "GOD" - he identifies with that ruler-deity that somehow looks like a bird-man, and so ascension turns him into exactly that-

The stone snake was there to scare people away. No Shuriman would have dared to risk getting cursed - mostly because that meant a fate worse than death - I wouldn't be surprised if Shuriman law would allow killing "marked" people on the spot without facing any consequences.

They won't come back, even with the empowerment. because if they do, they'll probably get killed. Shurima at it's peak had powerful magic and technology, a tiny snak-woman throwing poision might have been the least of their worries

turkeyBACON1 votes

Sorry, "twisting" was poor word choice. But Occam's razor my friend.

You're assuming they have gods/religion and they choose final forms through how they see themselves as avatars or aspects of those gods. Your assuming they "curse" people to disfigure and persecute. And that it's a trifling matter to just kill them once granting them powers beyond what they had before. You're assuming a lot about social customs and morals and laws.

None of this is provided in the current lore. All I'm saying is that with what little we do know you can make a logical story that explainable using the evidence provided without overreaching:

Ascended being are immortal (Ren and Xerath survived trapped for centuries). They are rare (2 definite and 2 questionable). They are made through a ceremony and sundisk. They usually turn into animal headed beings (Nasus and Ren). Azir wore a golden eagle helm for his ascension. Xerath corrupted the process. Azir's body was shattered and he died(?). Xerath entered the ascension beam. He didn't die. He was turned into pure magic/energy. Ren and Nasus try and shackle and entomb him. Eventually Azir is revived through dues ex machina. He doesn't look like nasus and ren with their animal heads. He still has his golden helm and armor, we can't see his true face. It's logical to say his ascension is corrupted or not true. Xerath had no helm; a logical assumption is that no helm = no conduit or no form. Thus he's a formless being of magic and power. Cass frees Ren and Xerath. Cass is bitten/"cursed" turned into an empowered half snake being. She had no helm or sundisk magic beam but changed none the less. Similar to the ascended but not the same. No animal head, no sight into the hearts of men (?), perhaps no immortality (?). She's got poisons and can turn people to stone apparently (if gameplay => lore). What she was given doesn't make sense as a curse. Perhaps its a gift? Either way Cassiopeia's story doesn't make sense.

While your suppositions are clever and wraps the whole magic system in a neat bow, they aren't based on any facts. With evidence presented its more likely that original ascension method was to stand beneath the sundisk be transformed by the light into an avatar of the animal you chose by wearing a helm of them. Xerath corrupted the process. By what ever method he made it so that it would destroy Azir and give him instead an ascension of a sort. Xerath however didn't kill azir he was later able to revive by "some method". (I say "some method" because that cinematic was narrated by Nasus who wasn't there. A Red has already stated Nasus has a skewed view on events which makes him a unreliable narrator.) Azir's revival/ascension was still corrupted or perhaps unfinished. He doesn't have a true bird head. He covers his face with the same golden helm he "died" in. He's undoubtedly powerful but not the same as the "true" Ascended Nasus and Renekton. I must assume Cass was given her serpent body and powers because a curse doesn't make the slightest sense. She was "attacked" for 2 possible reasons because she spilled royal blood and or because she opened the tomb. Someone/something wanted to give a reward for her actions. She was gifted an ascension of sorts. Why else? It wasn't a trap considering Cass escaped with her life. It was either a gift or punishment. Why would ancient shurmians and/or Nasus employ a giant snake to punish but not guard? Why not use it to prevent them from opening the tomb? Why attack after? Why empower an enemy that a worst just desecrated royal tombs and at worst just killed one of the royal line. The only logical assumption is that either xerath or some other faction wanted to reward allies against the Royal Family.

OR there's another assumption that can be made from all the evidence provided. The lore is terribly flawed, incomplete, and/or rushed to meet the Ascension reveal deadline. Trying to connect these disjointed dots into a complete picture is a fool's errand. There is simply not enough lore/evidence to make any sound conclusions. Anything stated after the release by red's is subterfuge and damage control. Until we get some actual lore and hopefully includes story progression, we'll remain malcontent.

Edit: Dammit i forgot to provide some explanations about Azir's "untrue" ascension. I'm sick of typing; Mind reading my comment on this in another thread? http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/XWpFbgXw-i-demand-clarification?comment=0004

Necrolegion891 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, "twisting" was poor word choice. But Occam's razor my friend.

You're assuming they have gods/religion and they choose final forms through how they see themselves as avatars or aspects of those gods. Your assuming they "curse" people to disfigure and persecute. And that it's a trifling matter to just kill them once granting them powers beyond what they had before. You're assuming a lot about social customs and morals and laws.

None of this is provided in the current lore. All I'm saying is that with what little we do know you can make a logical story that explainable using the evidence provided without overreaching:

Ascended being are immortal (Ren and Xerath survived trapped for centuries). They are rare (2 definite and 2 questionable). They are made through a ceremony and sundisk. They usually turn into animal headed beings (Nasus and Ren). Azir wore a golden eagle helm for his ascension. Xerath corrupted the process. Azir's body was shattered and he died(?). Xerath entered the ascension beam. He didn't die. He was turned into pure magic/energy. Ren and Nasus try and shackle and entomb him. Eventually Azir is revived through dues ex machina. He doesn't look like nasus and ren with their animal heads. He still has his golden helm and armor, we can't see his true face. It's logical to say his ascension is corrupted or not true. Xerath had no helm; a logical assumption is that no helm = no conduit or no form. Thus he's a formless being of magic and power. Cass frees Ren and Xerath. Cass is bitten/"cursed" turned into an empowered half snake being. She had no helm or sundisk magic beam but changed none the less. Similar to the ascended but not the same. No animal head, no sight into the hearts of men (?), perhaps no immortality (?). She's got poisons and can turn people to stone apparently (if gameplay => lore). What she was given doesn't make sense as a curse. Perhaps its a gift? Either way Cassiopeia's story doesn't make sense.

While your suppositions are clever and wraps the whole magic system in a neat bow, they aren't based on any facts. With evidence presented its more likely that original ascension method was to stand beneath the sundisk be transformed by the light into an avatar of the animal you chose by wearing a helm of them. Xerath corrupted the process. By what ever method he made it so that it would destroy Azir and give him instead an ascension of a sort. Xerath however didn't kill azir he was later able to revive by "some method". (I say "some method" because that cinematic was narrated by Nasus who wasn't there. A Red has already stated Nasus has a skewed view on events which makes him a unreliable narrator.) Azir's revival/ascension was still corrupted or perhaps unfinished. He doesn't have a true bird head. He covers his face with the same golden helm he "died" in. He's undoubtedly powerful but not the same as the "true" Ascended Nasus and Renekton. I must assume Cass was given her serpent body and powers because a curse doesn't make the slightest sense. She was "attacked" for 2 possible reasons because she spilled royal blood and or because she opened the tomb. Someone/something wanted to give a reward for her actions. She was gifted an ascension of sorts. Why else? It wasn't a trap considering Cass escaped with her life. It was either a gift or punishment. Why would ancient shurmians and/or Nasus employ a giant snake to punish but not guard? Why not use it to prevent them from opening the tomb? Why attack after? Why empower an enemy that a worst just desecrated royal tombs and at worst just killed one of the royal line. The only logical assumption is that either xerath or some other faction wanted to reward allies against the Royal Family.

OR there's another assumption that can be made from all the evidence provided. The lore is terribly flawed, incomplete, and/or rushed to meet the Ascension reveal deadline. Trying to connect these disjointed dots into a complete picture is a fool's errand. There is simply not enough lore/evidence to make any sound conclusions. Anything stated after the release by red's is subterfuge and damage control. Until we get some actual lore and hopefully includes story progression, we'll remain malcontent.

Edit: Dammit i forgot to provide some explanations about Azir's "untrue" ascension. I'm sick of typing; Mind reading my comment on this in another thread? http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/XWpFbgXw-i-demand-clarification?comment=0004

Didn't have time to come back and read replies. Good points TurkeyBacon.

I agree that Cass wasn't really cursed as a punishment, but maybe as a reward or maybe enthralled. Look at Elise. She was gifted powers and in return she brings back sacrifices to her deity. Maybe this snake statue/deity needed something from Cass and so gave her powers in return for something else.

About the Helmet being the avatar..... I have to disagree. Azir was a king, his helmet was his crown, nothing more. The shape he took, as I stated in my other post may have been due to some birth rite/mark. This is just my own theory though, but perhaps at birth he was chosen to ascend by either rite or birth mark. Ideally he would go on to become a king and use his birth mark as some form of signature. I.E. He got the mark of the bird and so he made his crown reflect that.

Now Xerath is the interesting one. If I remember correctly, in his old lore he perfected his magic techniques and in his new lore he was cunning enough to fool Renekton and Nasus; two ascended beings. According to his new lore, ascended beings have the power to pierce through ones cloak and reveal one's thoughts, but someone Xerath still managed to stay cloaked(hide his intentions from them). In order to do that he must have acquired powerful magic. This could indicate that he studied Ascension and its magic and understood how to use it.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kbcxAhEN,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-16T20:00:55.506+0000)

So, now long after the Shurima Event, I got to the question: what exactly IS "Ascension"?

...An excuse by RIOT to sell limited edition skins/items and to lure people into playing LoL for a few months....

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Right now I can't think of a single skin that's not permanent... the only LIMITED thing they sold were a few ward skins probably - and that won't cover 4% if how much the video has cost ^^ It was not ideally executed, i might agree on that, but it was never an excuse to sell anything.

People seem to forget that actually VERY FEW people buy skins when compared to the total population of players. EVEN LESS by more than one or two. The big money isn't made with stuff like that.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kbcxAhEN,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-02-19T01:32:11.131+0000)

Right now I can't think of a single skin that's not permanent... the only LIMITED thing they sold were a few ward skins probably - and that won't cover 4% if how much the video has cost ^^ It was not ideally executed, i might agree on that, but it was never an excuse to sell anything.

People seem to forget that actually VERY FEW people buy skins when compared to the total population of players. EVEN LESS by more than one or two. The big money isn't made with stuff like that.

Yes but remember the sales account for 90%+ of the revenue... being this game F2P. Of course not all players buy RP but the ones who don't provide a game experience to ones who do.

ANd what I meant by "limited" is that they are restricted in nature: The skins, considered "legendary" or otherwise, cannot be purchases outside of special sales or otherwise.

In either case the whole event was indeed nothing more then an attempt to generate player interest around World LCS time (combing 2 events together) to get more people interesting in LoL at a key time (LCS action viewership). Other then that it apparently means nothing more then that.

Cost of Freedom for this F2P game alas....

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Pfff I recommend polishing your tinfoil hat here ^^

I might understand complaints if it was about ingame advantages. But its just skins. Cosmetica. Riot isn't to blame if people want to blow their money on LOOKS. Their fault for spending money like that. No one forces them, there is no advantage for them if they do it - whoever blows mones on stuff just because it's LIMITED... well, sorry, got some bad news for you: apparently you suck at handling money. But maybe that's just my opinion...

Wow so... a game company can do any event, but as soon as it makes the game more popular it's bad, money grab and so on? So... we can't have nice things because they could be trying to make them so good even people who don't usually play might be interested?

You are the kind of guy who hates on everything, no?

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kbcxAhEN,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-19T02:02:05.234+0000)

Pfff I recommend polishing your tinfoil hat here ^^

I might understand complaints if it was about ingame advantages. But its just skins. Cosmetica. Riot isn't to blame if people want to blow their money on LOOKS. Their fault for spending money like that. No one forces them, there is no advantage for them if they do it - whoever blows mones on stuff just because it's LIMITED... well, sorry, got some bad news for you: apparently you suck at handling money. But maybe that's just my opinion...

Wow so... a game company can do any event, but as soon as it makes the game more popular it's bad, money grab and so on? So... we can't have nice things because they could be trying to make them so good even people who don't usually play might be interested?

You are the kind of guy who hates on everything, no?

I didn't, in my posts, say it was good or bad. This is a for-profit company of course (and Chinese owned at moment) and so they do things to make money. Your post is a whole another debate as to the "value proposition" that LoL presents to the consumer (think about how many thousands of $$$ it would cost to buy every skin/item).

My posts simply answer your Question: "What exactly is Ascension?"

Answer: Way for RIOT to make some money via Riot Point sales, LCS viewership (ad revenue from sponsors), or otherwise.

Conclusion: Don't read into RIOT's in-game events as lore-based or otherwise... when clearly lore has been fully disregarded by RIOT for years now despite pleas to the contrary, and the resulting action has simply been one sale after another. If RIOT cared about lore (now) they would reissue the Journal of Justice posts, something likewise (periodical lore updates), or otherwise.

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