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The Jungle has a worringly low number of human characters

DeadUnborn··3 votes·861 views

As a jungle main, I have noticed that most recent junglers have been designed artwise around being hunters, being monsters or being some sort of forest dweller.

Keep in mind I'm talking abotu characters that can perform somewhat cohesive in the jungle, yes you can probably jungle with Darius but most poeple would agree he is not a jungler

Now lets list all the non human/Vastaya junglers:

Heca, Eve, Shyv, elise, rengar, rek sai, amumu, kha, ivern, zac, voli, nocturne, kinded, shaco(?), skarner, wukong, nidalee, trundle, jax (?), warwick, kyle, quinn (transforms into bird), sej (rides a pig), sion (zombie), maokai, rammus, fiddle, pantheon (he is a god), malphite, udyr, nunu, poppy, mundo, tahm, naut, Aatrox.

Now here are the human junglers:

Vi, lee, graves, yi, olaf, gragas, xin zao, ekko, jarvan, trynda, shen

see the problem? and out of those the only real junglers are lee, yi and gragas since the others have very little play (at least in my experience)

Conclusion: The jungle needs more humans, and that comes from a guy who's mains are teemo, kled, amumu, rek sai and vel coz. I love monsters (and I am sure Riot has some that showing most junglers like monsters or somehting like that) but I think we all like something refreshing every once in a while. Have some duds in the jungle who's goal is not just hunting, stalking or living in trees to mix it up.

30 Comments

Cocho10 votes

I feel like this would be true for just about any role besides adc.

I wonder what the human to other ratio is among all the champs.

Humans aren't interesting lol. You can only make so many unique human characters. I don't think that is a problem.

What is more interesting and unique? Rengar Amumu Sion Fiddlesticks or LeeSin Olaf XinZhao Tryndamere

You can see why being 100% human is pretty restrictive from a designing perspective.

You're also being pretty lenient or who isnt a human. Even if they aren't 100% human, they defiantly have more human characteristics than others. https://imgur.com/u2AiaT1

That boy might as well be human lol

DeadUnborn2 votes

Mmm..true. As a said I actually prefer playing mosters and yordles and such to humanoid characters. However I think it would be awesome if we could have some champs in the jungle that I dunno, maybe were just warriors or mages or hex tech users. Yeah we have Vi and Jarvan but I do think there is design room to get some other cool stuff in there that is more thematically diverse

And yeah I could have divided between humanoid and non humanoid, but I wanted to make a hypervole to state my case more dramatically :p

Edit: Jungle is the furriest, top is a mixed bag, mid is mostly antropomorphic with some odd balls, support is also mostly humanoids and as you said adc is completly the opposite to jungle, only having corki, kog and twitch as non humanoid characters

Shadowkirby147 votes

Just because Sejuani's riding Bristle doesn't mean she belongs in the non-human/vastaya category, so is Quinn (who doesn't turn to a bird, but has Valor carry her around).

DeadUnborn1 votes

I'm talking for a theme perspective. Yes, you are right in that they are humans. but because they are related to animals IMO their art doesn't differ that much from "true" animal/hunter champs. Even if I passed them 2 and panth to the human category, the list would still tilt in favor of non humans drastically

Placentas6 votes

Worryingly seems like an intense word for the situation lol

DeadUnborn1 votes

hahha but it did get you to read the thread ;)

Placentas1 votes

Haha true. It's not very popular, but I also go Cami jungle, she's fairly human. Udy is also human, he just has a drop of Vastayan blood which allows him access to harnessing the power of the spirits. Quinn also doesn't "transform" into a bird anymore, and she technically never did, she swapped out with Valor and I don't think many people played her jungle during that time.

I would also like to see some more human champions brought to League too though. I have faith in Riot's design team, I've loved all the aesthetic designs of the new champions and I think they could make some more interesting humans although it is harder to do so.

DeadUnborn1 votes

yeah but except udyr they are not true junglers, they are just champions that can jungle

If we go by true junglers releases

Ivern is related to forests Warwick hunts Kindred hunts rek sai is a monster/hunts aatrox is a monster zac is a monster heca is a monster kha six is a monster/hunts rengar is a monster/hunts

I also have faith on the team, but think they are tunnel visioning too hard on trying a champions theme to the jungle, instead of just making an aweasome champ whose kit makes it a jungler like vi or graves (these 2 champs became jungler by accident ironically enough)

GreenLore2 votes

Actually Nidalee is human. Sure she can transform into a cat,but that doesn't mean that she isn't a human,its just her magic that allows her to transform.

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

Same for Elise. She is a human but the spider god Vilemaw granted her magical powers and therefore she is able to shapeshift into a spider.

Sejuani definitely is human (just because she has a mount doesn't make her inhuman), same for Quinn (doesn't transform into a bird, Valor is just picking her up).

Udyr is human in my opinion, too.

DeadUnborn1 votes

I'm talking for a visuals perspective. Yes you are tecnically correct with all, but I am talking about their feel. Elise and Udyr definetly do not look 100% human. I want a champion that feel like a "regular guy" like say, ekko or jinx, but in the jungle. Yes Sejuani and Qunn are humans, but because part of their kit revolves around controlling animals they don't have a 100% human feel to them (that is what I was refering to)

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

http://s13.favim.com/610/170214/alan-rickman-emma-watson-harry-potter-hermione-granger-Favim.com-5064338.jpeg

DeadUnborn2 votes

HAHAHA

Valor Bot1 votes

LOL

GreenLore1 votes

Well Elise has spider legs growing out of her back,so even her "human" form isn't entirely human.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

That depends on your definition of human. ^^

Gapybo2 votes

This thread is silly. Hope it's a joke.

RookPusher2 votes

Humans are boring. I'm fine with Humanoids.

#NeedsmoreDryad

Wrathof3001 votes

I would count Pantheon as human, because at least he has the physical appearance of a human. But you could use this thread to push for the release of "Markon" (iirc) as a jungler, he was the hunter from Rengar's new story whom he learnt how to hunt from, granted Markon grew tired of him and kicked him in a Ravine. I personally would like to see more of him because they presented him as a Legendary hunter, but he had less then a paragraph's worth of cameo.

DeadUnborn1 votes

As I said, I wanted the jungle to have a more diverse theme. Do you really think the jungle needs another hunter having kha, rengar, kindred, warwick and rek sai already?

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

To be fair, hunting just fits the role fantasy of a jungler pretty well. You are alone in the jungle fighting beasts. So being a hunter just feels natural. As long as you are not a krughugger like Ivern.

And if you think about it: For example even Vi is a hunter. Just that she is hunting for criminals instead. Her theme is about chasing.

Wrathof3001 votes

Then its like asking for an ADC that doesn't use a gun/ crossbow, it can't happen, but you are limited in what you can get. Idk what you're excepting, a scientist that jungles? He'd be no different from the people you ruled out as not being primarily made for the jungle.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Except even ADCs have more variety if you take perentages

You have cannons (tristana), magic (ez), spit (kog), spears (kalista), feathers (xayah), axes (draven), freesbe blades (sivir) and even aircrafts (corki).

Yeah I would love a scientis jungler! He could have a teleport device to change the enemies position as an ult, he could have a ray gun that froze enemy champs or even wear a sort of power armor to fight. He would need some tools to clear the jungle (like Vi's E) but of course that could happen

Wrathof3001 votes

This is my point, you aren't looking at the differences between the hunting mechanics of those hunter champions. Warwick blood hunter, Rengar tracker, Kindred poacher, RekSai predator/landshark hunter (dive in and out playstyle), Khazix scavenger (assassin playstyle picking out the weak) and from those they can be modified into more and different unique kits for future hunter champions. The hunter theme inst as bland as you paint it, underdeveloped, yes, but not linear at all.

DeadUnborn2 votes

ok lets look at supports:

Sona: musician Janna: protector spirit Blitz: Robot Zyra: Plant lady Soraka: healer Morgana: Cursed Angel Braum: protector Brand: Evil fire spirit thing Tresh: Evil Spirit Tairc: Protector Nami: Mermaid Bard: Roaming Spirit Lulu: Fae Witch Alistar: Minotaur Zilean: Time Wizard Karma: Oriental Mage Leona: Warrior Sion: Zombie Juggernaut Shen: ninja Lux: Light mage Nautilus: Spirit Armor Trundle: Troll Tam Kench: Demon manfrogfish Vel Coz: monster Ivern: Tree person Annie: fire mage girl

See how they vastly difer in characteristics? Sure you will have overlapping themes like "mage" and "protector" and in their roles they will do somewhat similar things, but they are way more diverse than:hunter monster, good guy mosnter spirit hunter, assasin monster, intelligent animal, animal rider.

Don't get me wrong, I love non human characters and jungle is one of my main roles for a reason, but the lack of diversity is apparent. At the end of the day even if you want to categorize them in "specific" types of hunting, all characters you mentioned have animal features and want to hunt stuff, which is their visual theme and is not very diverse (again, I love all those characters, but that doesn't mean they don't have very overlaping themes).

I am not arguing that there is something wrong with the jungle's current roster, I am saying moving forward there needs to be a more diverse cast since the hunter/monster space is already saturated

Psyrix1 votes

Elise is a human, she just got augmented by Vilemaw. Quinn is still human and has not adaptations, she just has a pet bird (and she doesnt transform into a bird, Valor carries her) Sejuani is human, she just rides a pig. Pantheon is an Aspect. He is still human, just has a spirit in him. Udyr has vastayan blood (extremely diluted) so for the most part, is still human (he isnt counted as a vastaya). Nunu is a human boy riding a yeti (his friend). Diana is the same as Pantheon: an Aspect....tho to be fair Pantheon's Aspect seems to have taken over more than the other aspects (if i rememer correctly, prbly am not). Shaco...Shaco hasnt really been defined as what he is (some people think he's a spirit/demon, others think he's a manifestation of human evil. Most think he's just a delusional heinous human assassin).

AdeBug1 votes

Not to be rude, but did you read your own title? What do you expect from a jungle, if not bugs and wild animals?

If it were a well kept garden with neatly trimmed bushes and ever blossoming flowers, I'd understand.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Vi, Jarvan and Graves are very iconic junglers and their lore is not at all related to "jungling", their kits just happen to be good for jungling and their primary role is that. You do not have to tie thematics to role to have a sucessful champion.

For example in md lane you have a tentacle monster, a robot man, a girl In the support role you have a robot, a dammed soul, a spirit girl, a dancer and an outrageous man

See? Different thematics can work for the same position

AdeBug1 votes

ur op is about the majority (and how others stated, maj of adcs are human) then u find exceptions in every other lane, like everyone else found exceptions for u in the jg but u dont wanna accept it... logic?

DeadUnborn1 votes

is not about exceptions, is about ratios:

only about 30% of junglers are humans, and that's counting characters like nid, duyr and sej who really do have animalistic features, if not it goes around 22%

adcs on the other hand are inverse, having only 33% non-human characters. However, because the pool of characters is much smaller (around 47 junglers vs 18 adcs) you get to see more non human adcs than you do human junglers. Additionaly the visual themes for adcs is much more varied Putting them in categories

Now, pulling away broadr arquetypes like human and monster

In the jungle if you take away characters that fit into the categories hunter, animal/creature related, nature dweler you are left with: Lee, Vi, Graves, amumu, yi, noc, olaf, gragas, xin zao, ekko, jarvan,pantheon, shen, jax, sion. That is 30% of the total jungler roster, and many of these champions are not really played often in the jungle, or at all

Now lets look at marskmen:

Take away "bow": ashe, kidred, varus (16%) Take away "gun": cait, jhin, jinx, mf, lucian, graves (30%) and mind you they have very different types of guns which make them feel different" sniper: jhin, cait dual gun: mf, lucian and then garves and jinx are unique Take away crossbow, vayne, twitch, quin (16%)

See how little percentage of junglers are actually "different in more specific terms. Sure, most champions are actually different in back story, asthetics and lore as well as mechanics, I'm not impliying otherwise. But the broader themes of the jungle are overlapping some. Adcs have this problem as well, but to a much lesser degree because Riot has activly made them play different from one another through gampelay reworks and new releases. Moroever, you could argue that adcs also have overlapping problems, and I wouldn't hold it against you, but in my opinion they do to a lesser degree than the jungle does

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