Riot doesn't listen AT ALL to feedback (Confirmed due to Evelynn Skin)

Curious katey why are we only getting 1 blood moon skin this year? i take it we are also getting the blood moon assassin map back as well.. but i think it would have been awsome to see 3 more blood moon skins together.. like Bloodmoon evelynn,, Ahri, and idk maybe kayn

From game height, we aim for larger shapes (also why models aren't insanely detailed when in game versus the splash - the textures are 512 x 512).

What does this mean? I've played a lot of games and never once in my 15+ years of gaming have I thought character models or costumes were too detailed.

I'm not trying to say you guys do bad work, I'm just very curious why the visual bar is set where it is. Riot's flush with talent and vision (and money, right?), and we see that in all the art that's peripheral to the game itself.

https://img00.deviantart.net/6bbe/i/2014/297/1/c/ravenborn_leblanc_concept_art_by_yideth-d840pgn.jpg

But in 2018, there isn't any reason why League can't look as good as this LeBlanc. Even if there are system or gameplay limitations, a detail slider would let players make those decisions for themselves.

It sounds like you guys might think there has to be a tradeoff between quality and clarity, and you err on the side of clarity. However, I think the sacrifices in quality also come with a high tax on fantasy and depth (for the characters themselves and the artists).

This is my #1 frustration with League (and Blizzard games), so I'm hoping you might shed some light on this. Why can't League look better with more detail? Why can't players make their own choices about visual quality versus clarity? Is the art team ever frustrated by how stripped the game models are compared to their designs?

I think this was brought up a while back, but I haven't heard mention of it since, so I'm going to bring it up again.

Why not put skins on the PBE earlier than one cycle ahead of release? AFAIK most skins are in development for several months, so between the time the skin gets 'locked' so to speak (as in, you guys know for sure it's going to become a fully fledged skin that gets into game) and the time it goes to live, there's gotta be more than just two weeks spent working on it, right? Why not give players the chance to respond to the skin a bit earlier in development so that some of the more complicated constructive feedback (like Eve's sleeves in this case) can actually have a chance of making it onto the skin?

From what I've seen in my past years playing the game and following releases, a 2 week cycle just isn't enough time to make any large scope changes to skins, even if those changes may be widely well received by the community or even the teams working on the skin, and I've seen this happen multiple times.

How viable would it be to make her face in demon form a white mask like the blood moon masks? Basically recolor the face white. At least I think that'd be cool and the suggestion had decent support on Reddit

How viable would it be to make her face in demon form a white mask like the blood moon masks? Basically recolor the face white. At least I think that'd be cool and the suggestion had decent support on Reddit.

If you like the idea and think it would add something special to the skin... Think about it, it wouldn't require any changes to splash art

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=efiqfJfz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:16:00.845+0000)

Preface that I wasn't on the pod who developed her, but I have a bit of context on the changes.

Give us white hair, many of the other Blood Moon skins have it.

This was something that was trialed during development; it didn't work out. Blood Moon Evelynn shows a lot more skin than other Blood Moon skins do, making a good portion of her model a light color. Adding white hair to this would have caused her model to be a blur when in motion and it'd be hard to pick apart exactly what you were looking it. From game height, we aim for larger shapes (also why models aren't insanely detailed when in game versus the splash - the textures are 512 x 512).

The skin looks like Lunar Wraith, not Blood Moon.

That's feedback the team agreed with. There was a lot of blue, a color not generally associated with Blood Moon. The team took that feedback to heart and removed some of the blue, making her horns resemble the blue/gold gradient found on Blood Moon Else. The hair was also changed from a hotter pink to something more red, again, to align better with Blood Moon. The hotter pink was definitely trailing into Lunar Wraith Caitlyn's territory.

**Is it due to the ego of the skin artist? **

Fair question, but no. The concept artist was working on paint overs/going through feedback loops for a good portion of yesterday afternoon. He made 4-5 paint overs of different hair and horn colors to see what could be pushed to make it feel Blood Moon. This was all based on feedback that Riot KiWiKiD had delivered to the team, coming from the boards, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

Once the team agreed on the changes, both the character artist and splash artist spent the rest of the afternoon applying the changes and then Riot KiWiKiD testing them.

Delay it.

We have a release cadence and making larger scope changes on something we've planned x things for means taking away time from another skin's development - it's a slippery slope. It's why we can't 'just add sleeves' to something, for example. It's not simply adding sleeves, but also changing the rig entirely, changing all of her animations so the sleeves don't clip, and adjusting the splash to accommodate the in-game visual changes. Changing an animation kit can take several days, especially on newer characters, like Eve. Tied into all of this is testing, which means testing the skin again in its entirety, which is another large task that takes several (+) days.

Scrap it.

I think this has become a go-to for when someone either doesn't like something, and it's the easiest way for them to communicate it versus constructive feedback .We'd done it once with Sewn Chaos and because it'd been done once, it's a matter of why not do it again? To be honest, we struggled with the Sewn Chaos skins and the confidence we had with them. They were cute, but didn't hit our quality bar, or the fantasy that they should have, and it was something we should have ice boxed way sooner than PBE.

TL;DR:

We hear you! I know it's hard to believe sometimes when high scope changes are requested and they aren't applied. If you aren't sure why something is/isn't done, please ask (preferable on PBE 'cause the SME for the skin usually writes the post!) We have craft/design reasoning behind the choices we make as a team.

Adding white hair to this would have caused her model to be a blur when in motion

This is the opinion of the artist and the team which is very limited, lazy and problematic, as well as a bit unbelievable and stubborn sounding. A bold color such as red/pink though may not cause a problem with motion, but it's an eye sore. There is a fan art of blood moon skin for Evelynn that notes the biggest problem, her color scheme is BOLD. Her skin is largely the issue, it's a washed out strong purple and that would cause the blur motion with less potent and moulding soft colors.. The problem with her hair comes at the fact that her skin causes it to becoming a problem and her clothes just then look out of place. I can't really describe it, but the issue comes that it's not the hairs fault for the blur if white, it's the ENTIRE color scheme. It doesn't look like much effort has gone into it but the opinion that 'it's fine' from the artist is causing it to be held back. The blood moon line should be about it's thematic representation, not how much red, blue and purple you can shove on a model and call it a day. it's LAZY.

** making her horns resemble the blue/gold gradient found on Blood Moon Else.**

You've missed the point. The horns being blue were not the problem, and red hair is not part of the theme! This is extremely reminiscent to the Three Kingdoms skin line, where they originally derived from Dynasty Warrior designs, and later on just thrown together to look somewhat like it belongs but it really doesn't. Again, this is down to laziness.

**Fair question, but no. The concept artist was working on paint overs/going through feedback loops for a good portion of yesterday afternoon. He made 4-5 paint overs of different hair and horn colors to see what could be pushed to make it feel Blood Moon. This was all based on feedback that Riot KiWiKiD had delivered to the team, coming from the boards, Reddit, YouTube, etc. **

And yet we, the consumer, the fans who gave the feedback, we saw none of this, we're just being thrown a bunch of lines of 'promises' together. You take and you don't give back and that's essentially missing the point of feedback. Why can't we see it for ourselfs, even though we already have with the fan skin that was made. Honestly i still think it comes down to the ego of the artist in the fact that the fan art Evelynn skin is literally WHAT the skin should be, and you guys are extremely hard pressed on giving the creator credit, and adapting the skin to it. You really REALLY do not want to accept that someone who is not working with you guys have made something better. Let's be brutally honest with ourselves there.

but didn't hit our quality bar, or the fantasy that they should have

And neither does this. Sorry but adding a flute to a very disgustingly red shadow form does not work. Again, lazy

As for me asking on the PBE, i can't access the PBE apparently, so i had to do it on here.

I mean to be honest you've done the same thing as on the PBE anyway. You've thrown a bunch of excuses my way to cover up serious situations or you've addressed situations that we never a problem. No one has yet to address the fact that the skin does not, by everyone's general opinion whether they 'like it' or not, fit what the Blood Moon line SHOULD be. You've just thrown a bunch of blue and red together and called it a day. Anyone can do that. Someone has created what is literally the embodiment of what the skin should be to a pinch.. Use it. because right now ignoring the SJW, you have about 95% of the Evelynn community pissed the hell off... And you don't want GBAY99's video to become true surely. Swallow the pride, contact the artist, delay the skin, get to work on a skin Evelynn players will actually BUY and act like a company that listens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjatHBy2wbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ95zlPqEec&amp=&feature=youtu.be

Can you guys please revisit Sewn Chaos Amumu? That was adorable... :(

Waiiitt a sec.

My favourite ex-pro support now works for riot? What does he do?

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=efiqfJfz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:16:00.845+0000)

We have a release cadence and making larger scope changes on something we've planned x things for means taking away time from another skin's development - it's a slippery slope. It's why we can't 'just add sleeves' to something, for example. It's not simply adding sleeves, but also changing the rig entirely, changing all of her animations so the sleeves don't clip, and adjusting the splash to accommodate the in-game visual changes. Changing an animation kit can take several days, especially on newer characters, like Eve. Tied into all of this is testing, which means testing the skin again in its entirety, which is another large task that takes several (+) days.

Quite possibly a dumb question, but; wouldn't this make it more important to get things 'right', rather than shipping it 'as is' because there's other stuff in the pipeline? Like, isn't it better to throw more hours at it, than shrugging and taking what you've learned and applying it to the next skin, which may be months or years down the line? I get that there's only so much time you can afford to devote to a single skin, you're a company and you need to make money to support your business, after all, but isn't there also a drive to make your work the best it can be? Like, if the same bit of feedback keeps popping up from multiple people, who all seem to be rather heavily devoted to the champion you're making a skin for this time around, isn't it worth taking to heart, even if it means more work, and delaying other things?

I know this might sound accusing, but it's really not supposed to be, it's an honest question from an outsider who doesn't have an inside view of how your work process is done. Like, if this is the way you chose to go because the team behind the skin honestly believe this is the best version of the skin, then that's perfectly understandable. You're never going to be able to please everyone, and opinions differ a great deal, and that's fine. It really is. But if it's only the version you're sticking with, not because you think it's the best it can be, but because it's what you're stuck with given the time you've already devoted to it, and the time it'd take to change it to something that may or may not be better, then it's a different matter entirely. Being disappointed in a skin because your vision doesn't match with the vision other people has isn't great, but it's something reasonable people can get over because, as said, opinions differ. But being told 'Sorry, this is the best we can do, we just can't afford more time to change things, we'll just have to do better next time", brings on a whole different kind of disappointment, and a certain wistful longing for 'what could have been'.

Again, I really, really hope I managed to phrase this in a manner that doesn't sound too negative or accusing, because it's really not the intent, but if I've failed in that, then I apologise in advance.

Here is the real problem this skin is just boring no one says you should put that super detailed fanart and make a skin out of it.But what thei want it to take insperation because clearly people like the concept of the fanart alot more then the one that was made.Evelynn players waited 4 years and just feel let down when thei see what Swain and Yorick got.The worst thing about this is that this skin will probabaly have low sales and so no one wins.

Sewn Chaos looked fine and even better than some subsequent skins that were released. I think the people behind that decision might have conflated 'niche appeal' with 'substandard quality'

TL:DR Translated "We hear your feedback but we never expect that fans won't like stuff so we never have time to really change anything after its reveal."

Have ya'll ever considered a white stripe a la Death The Kid, in an attempt to maybe meet the community half-way? I know it might sound like a stupidly obvious suggestion, but I haven't seen anyone else bring it up, and it would only require a texture tweak, right?

Why not change her skin tone to allow her hair to be white and to allow here horns to be red.....

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/Ombu5f0O-blood-moon-evelynn-edit

Why won't you make it like this then? It's really awesome here, i really love it and i'd love to see it in game. I would buy it even if it would be beyond the ultimate skin price. And this skin would automatically become my favourite skin. Please listen ...

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/7Yxi919X-blood-moon-evelynn-by-eraiviolett

{quoted}

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/2mPyA

Just thought I'd share it here as well because a few friends told me I should. Do let me know what you think of it, I personally (biased of course, I made it) would instantly buy it, Evelynn is one of my favorite characters in the game and the Blood Moon thematic as well. Follow me on twitter: https://twitter.com/Erai_Violett youtube to watch video process: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5VwRlWC6JoH2ONJbxTLEQ

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=efiqfJfz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:16:00.845+0000)

Preface that I wasn't on the pod who developed her, but I have a bit of context on the changes.

Give us white hair, many of the other Blood Moon skins have it.

This was something that was trialed during development; it didn't work out. Blood Moon Evelynn shows a lot more skin than other Blood Moon skins do, making a good portion of her model a light color. Adding white hair to this would have caused her model to be a blur when in motion and it'd be hard to pick apart exactly what you were looking it. From game height, we aim for larger shapes (also why models aren't insanely detailed when in game versus the splash - the textures are 512 x 512).

The skin looks like Lunar Wraith, not Blood Moon.

That's feedback the team agreed with. There was a lot of blue, a color not generally associated with Blood Moon. The team took that feedback to heart and removed some of the blue, making her horns resemble the blue/gold gradient found on Blood Moon Else. The hair was also changed from a hotter pink to something more red, again, to align better with Blood Moon. The hotter pink was definitely trailing into Lunar Wraith Caitlyn's territory.

**Is it due to the ego of the skin artist? **

Fair question, but no. The concept artist was working on paint overs/going through feedback loops for a good portion of yesterday afternoon. He made 4-5 paint overs of different hair and horn colors to see what could be pushed to make it feel Blood Moon. This was all based on feedback that Riot KiWiKiD had delivered to the team, coming from the boards, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

Once the team agreed on the changes, both the character artist and splash artist spent the rest of the afternoon applying the changes and then Riot KiWiKiD testing them.

Delay it.

We have a release cadence and making larger scope changes on something we've planned x things for means taking away time from another skin's development - it's a slippery slope. It's why we can't 'just add sleeves' to something, for example. It's not simply adding sleeves, but also changing the rig entirely, changing all of her animations so the sleeves don't clip, and adjusting the splash to accommodate the in-game visual changes. Changing an animation kit can take several days, especially on newer characters, like Eve. Tied into all of this is testing, which means testing the skin again in its entirety, which is another large task that takes several (+) days.

Scrap it.

I think this has become a go-to for when someone either doesn't like something, and it's the easiest way for them to communicate it versus constructive feedback .We'd done it once with Sewn Chaos and because it'd been done once, it's a matter of why not do it again? To be honest, we struggled with the Sewn Chaos skins and the confidence we had with them. They were cute, but didn't hit our quality bar, or the fantasy that they should have, and it was something we should have ice boxed way sooner than PBE.

TL;DR:

We hear you! I know it's hard to believe sometimes when high scope changes are requested and they aren't applied. If you aren't sure why something is/isn't done, please ask (preferable on PBE 'cause the SME for the skin usually writes the post!) We have craft/design reasoning behind the choices we make as a team.

Amen, they never listen.

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=efiqfJfz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:16:00.845+0000)

Preface that I wasn't on the pod who developed her, but I have a bit of context on the changes.

Give us white hair, many of the other Blood Moon skins have it.

This was something that was trialed during development; it didn't work out. Blood Moon Evelynn shows a lot more skin than other Blood Moon skins do, making a good portion of her model a light color. Adding white hair to this would have caused her model to be a blur when in motion and it'd be hard to pick apart exactly what you were looking it. From game height, we aim for larger shapes (also why models aren't insanely detailed when in game versus the splash - the textures are 512 x 512).

The skin looks like Lunar Wraith, not Blood Moon.

That's feedback the team agreed with. There was a lot of blue, a color not generally associated with Blood Moon. The team took that feedback to heart and removed some of the blue, making her horns resemble the blue/gold gradient found on Blood Moon Else. The hair was also changed from a hotter pink to something more red, again, to align better with Blood Moon. The hotter pink was definitely trailing into Lunar Wraith Caitlyn's territory.

**Is it due to the ego of the skin artist? **

Fair question, but no. The concept artist was working on paint overs/going through feedback loops for a good portion of yesterday afternoon. He made 4-5 paint overs of different hair and horn colors to see what could be pushed to make it feel Blood Moon. This was all based on feedback that Riot KiWiKiD had delivered to the team, coming from the boards, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

Once the team agreed on the changes, both the character artist and splash artist spent the rest of the afternoon applying the changes and then Riot KiWiKiD testing them.

Delay it.

We have a release cadence and making larger scope changes on something we've planned x things for means taking away time from another skin's development - it's a slippery slope. It's why we can't 'just add sleeves' to something, for example. It's not simply adding sleeves, but also changing the rig entirely, changing all of her animations so the sleeves don't clip, and adjusting the splash to accommodate the in-game visual changes. Changing an animation kit can take several days, especially on newer characters, like Eve. Tied into all of this is testing, which means testing the skin again in its entirety, which is another large task that takes several (+) days.

Scrap it.

I think this has become a go-to for when someone either doesn't like something, and it's the easiest way for them to communicate it versus constructive feedback .We'd done it once with Sewn Chaos and because it'd been done once, it's a matter of why not do it again? To be honest, we struggled with the Sewn Chaos skins and the confidence we had with them. They were cute, but didn't hit our quality bar, or the fantasy that they should have, and it was something we should have ice boxed way sooner than PBE.

TL;DR:

We hear you! I know it's hard to believe sometimes when high scope changes are requested and they aren't applied. If you aren't sure why something is/isn't done, please ask (preferable on PBE 'cause the SME for the skin usually writes the post!) We have craft/design reasoning behind the choices we make as a team.

Hello Mr/Ms Riot Katey Khaos, I know I'm a bit late to the party but I thoughtI should at least put my two cents into the argument. I personally really like the skin, I love blood moon and I really think it soots Eve with her being a sadistic demon. BUT I do have some things that I don't like.

1. The changed horns, I never really liked the horns on Eve to begin with seeing as when she's in her human form she's supposed to look.... Well Human, but I REALLY don't like the gold horns when compared to the blue ones because of the way the colors were implemented. They blue was okay because it fit the color scheme of the skin, but the gold ones just look forced and out of place. I mean where else do you see that gold fade into to blue like on Elise, the answer is no where. It worked on Elise for two reasons. 1. there were more the two, and 2. even though they were a huge part of the skin they still felt like a different part of the character, they were interesting, but they only drew your attention for a moment before you became distracted again by her dress and mask and tattoos. The reason this is possible is because the legs are on her back not the front, you guys did the same thing with Eve's lashers. For Eve though the horns DON'T match the color scheme, And they ARE right up front, sticking out like a sore thumb. The off blue went REALLY REALLY WELL with the dark blue black on her lashers.
2. The hair color I think alot of people don't like the new hair color compared to the the original hair color. In my opinion, there are, again, two reasons for this. 1, The old hair just looked more natural to the skin. It just felt like it suited Eve better. 2. The new color highlights the horns, BUT it also kind of alienates them as well, because TBH the horn color just does not match the skin.
3. Animations. Im going to split this up into two parts the W animation and the E animation. Part 1 the W animation. I not going to lie, the W animation just doesn't fit the skin, it fits Masquerade Eve just fine, but not blood moon. The Easiest solution would be to just make the W animation a Blood Moon symbol, I mean why has no one thought of that.

Part 2 The E the problem that I have with the E animation is that although it looks ok there is definitely one major problem. The Empowered E Lashers stab the enemy with THE BLUNT SIDE OF THE LASHERS, it doesn't take a genius to understand that that isn't realistic. My solution would be to make her lashers latch onto the enemy from either SIDE then pull her in like a slingshot almost. it would definitely be a hassle but I think for the skin it would be worth it.

And thats all I have to say about the skin. I think the base is cool but with just a bit more effort it could look GREAT.

Sincerely Prometheus [slayer-jinx-catface]

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=efiqfJfz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:16:00.845+0000)

Preface that I wasn't on the pod who developed her, but I have a bit of context on the changes.

Give us white hair, many of the other Blood Moon skins have it.

This was something that was trialed during development; it didn't work out. Blood Moon Evelynn shows a lot more skin than other Blood Moon skins do, making a good portion of her model a light color. Adding white hair to this would have caused her model to be a blur when in motion and it'd be hard to pick apart exactly what you were looking it. From game height, we aim for larger shapes (also why models aren't insanely detailed when in game versus the splash - the textures are 512 x 512).

The skin looks like Lunar Wraith, not Blood Moon.

That's feedback the team agreed with. There was a lot of blue, a color not generally associated with Blood Moon. The team took that feedback to heart and removed some of the blue, making her horns resemble the blue/gold gradient found on Blood Moon Else. The hair was also changed from a hotter pink to something more red, again, to align better with Blood Moon. The hotter pink was definitely trailing into Lunar Wraith Caitlyn's territory.

**Is it due to the ego of the skin artist? **

Fair question, but no. The concept artist was working on paint overs/going through feedback loops for a good portion of yesterday afternoon. He made 4-5 paint overs of different hair and horn colors to see what could be pushed to make it feel Blood Moon. This was all based on feedback that Riot KiWiKiD had delivered to the team, coming from the boards, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

Once the team agreed on the changes, both the character artist and splash artist spent the rest of the afternoon applying the changes and then Riot KiWiKiD testing them.

Delay it.

We have a release cadence and making larger scope changes on something we've planned x things for means taking away time from another skin's development - it's a slippery slope. It's why we can't 'just add sleeves' to something, for example. It's not simply adding sleeves, but also changing the rig entirely, changing all of her animations so the sleeves don't clip, and adjusting the splash to accommodate the in-game visual changes. Changing an animation kit can take several days, especially on newer characters, like Eve. Tied into all of this is testing, which means testing the skin again in its entirety, which is another large task that takes several (+) days.

Scrap it.

I think this has become a go-to for when someone either doesn't like something, and it's the easiest way for them to communicate it versus constructive feedback .We'd done it once with Sewn Chaos and because it'd been done once, it's a matter of why not do it again? To be honest, we struggled with the Sewn Chaos skins and the confidence we had with them. They were cute, but didn't hit our quality bar, or the fantasy that they should have, and it was something we should have ice boxed way sooner than PBE.

TL;DR:

We hear you! I know it's hard to believe sometimes when high scope changes are requested and they aren't applied. If you aren't sure why something is/isn't done, please ask (preferable on PBE 'cause the SME for the skin usually writes the post!) We have craft/design reasoning behind the choices we make as a team.

Hi, who may I talk to in regards to gaining feedback and looking into Karmas play style?

Wait... Kiwikid is now an artist at Riot? Like, the former pro from Dig?

If so... cool! Congrats. :)

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=efiqfJfz,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:44:45.769+0000)

I like the skin design But it doesn't look like a blood moon skin (way to ruin another one of my fav skin lines)

Let's make Blood Moon Evelynn the best or one of the best skins in this skin line:)

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/7Yxi919X-blood-moon-evelynn-by-eraiviolett

you sir have made riot some money, now proceed to give riot more money with no sign of monetary gain and you will get a shirt

(to be honest I would get a shirt that looks like this)