Blood Moon Talon is a true Japanese fox spirit..... not Ahri

LunSeiSleidee·Jul 29, 2017·2 votes·1,345 views

Blood Moon Talon is more mythological kitsune than Ahri can ever hope to be. Let's admit it.

44 Comments

SEKAIJul 29, 20179 votes

Ahri is not a kitsune, she's a kumiho, a Korean variant of the whole fox spirit mytho that had originated in China.

So this thread is moot anyway, since Ahri is never a Japanese fox spirit to begin with.

.......

Also how is Bloodmoon Talon a kitsune? He's just some dude who straps a bunch of blades on his shoulder and wears a fox mask in that skin outfit.

Alpha SamsuniJul 29, 20171 votes

To all you lazy people who don't want to search it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumiho

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

"Also how is Bloodmoon Talon a kitsune?"

Stopped reading right there. Wow, you have such a sharp eye for details. And such a knowledge of Japanese lore.

SEKAIJul 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

"Also how is Bloodmoon Talon a kitsune?"

Stopped reading right there. Wow, you have such a sharp eye for details. And such a knowledge of Japanese lore.

If you're talking about the shapeshifting aspect of the kitsune mytho, then anybody can literally be a kitsune if you really want to go that way.

That's why I'm puzzled, why Bloodmoon Talon of all people? But really, the Bloodmoon people are asura or oni (a bit unclear on the terms. And I'm referring to the type where people can downspiral into being demons, as opposed to the native ones who are just born as demons in Japanese lores), not really kitsune.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

Because Blood Moon Talon has actual Japanese religious and mythological references on him. Because, as I already explained, you probably don't know what an actual kitsune myth is like.

SEKAIJul 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Because Blood Moon Talon has actual Japanese religious and mythological references on him. Because, as I already explained, you probably don't know what an actual kitsune myth is like.

I have no idea what you're even getting here.

Ahri is literally a humanoid fox that eats people, which is identical to the original fox spirit mytho between both China, Japan and Korea. It's only much later that Japan started viewing the fox spirits as deities to be celebrated. So how is Ahri less of a kitsune than Talon, where the latter merely dressed up in a costume that resembles a fox (who may be an human-turned oni in the context of that skin)?

But then again, Ahri is not even a kitsune. She's a kumiho, Riot did it that way because she was meant to be a champ release that celebrates the beginning of KR server. So this thread is completely meaningless since there are literally no object of comparison, as "who is more kitsune" is contested between a different variation of the fox spirit and someone dressing up as a fox costume.

Also, no, the fox mask is never meant to be something that the fox have to wear. It's meant for human use to mimic the fox that they're celebrating in certain events and festivals, and for the Noh performers to use during performances. It's said that the fox spirits may slip into the events under human form while also using the mask as a front, either to trick others, or just to join the fun themselves; but they are not required to use the mask. The fox mask in popular media such as in anime are merely there for cosmetic purposes and as an indication of someone's character (such as "watch out, this character may be foxy and full of lies"), rather than a hint towards their nature. it can happen as per the wish of the author, but it's by no means required.

So again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

SEKAIJul 29, 20176 votes

{quoted}

"Also, no, the fox mask is never meant to be something that the fox wears. "

Where did I say that?

That fox mask is not a Noh mask, by the way. It's a cerimonial mask.

Except fox masks are almost never used as ceremonial masks, if at all, but as theatrical and festival masks. Its uses in theatrical settings can include Noh, Kyogen, Kagura etc, and festival uses are far and wide, can be almost any traditional festival or celebration.

So no, they're not ceremonial masks.

And even if Talon's mask is for whatever reason, ceremonial meaning "nothing personal kid", then it also makes no sense to why it's fox themed. Because Japan never had any canine animals or canine-like humanoids being associated to death unlike Anubis, Cerberus etc. Kitsune is at no point, being associated to the concept of death. Concepts such as misfortune and being killed/eaten etc yes (concerning the negative depiction of fox spirits), but not death itself.

So this is just wrong.

Judging by your nick, we've got an egocentric weeaboo on our hands here?

Fucking ad-hominem. Nice try.

I'm of Chinese descendant, in Mandarin and Japanese kanji, the term "the world" are written exactly the same as "世界". But since I don't want my name to show up as squares, so I used the romanised spelling, and I also happen to like the Japanese pronunciation more. Not to mention, "The World" was already taken by the time I transferred to OCE, so I used this instead.

You got problems with that?

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

SEKAIJul 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

[removed]

你要跟我玩? 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈!

我不是啥第二代華裔或以下, 我就是第一代. 怎不? 我的屌師英語嚇了小哥跳了嗎? 诶~~

確實, 本人我現在不在國內. 那又怎樣?

其外, 我就是覺得日文的"世界"念起來稍微順一些. 那又怎樣?

這些通通沒改變你無論點爭辯然後就忙著蛋裡挑骨頭的事實. 別瞎了喂.

收收吧, 不要再打自己臉了, 難看呀. 彼此彼此, 就這樣算了.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

Yes, google translator is nice.

SEKAIJul 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Yes, google translator is nice.

You're just trolling now.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

SEKAIJul 29, 20176 votes

{quoted}

To put it simply, no real Chinese would ever love Japan.

I'm sorry, what?

Chinese people do not hate modern day Japan nor its traditional folklores and media and such, at most we only hate the Japanese government (not its people), and what the Japanese did back around the periods of WW2 +/- (see Nanjing Massacre, but it's all in the past. Mostly anyway). Besides border and political tension among the higher ups, Chinese and Japanese people generally continue to maintain more or less healthy relationships with each other (this is strengthened by the fact most Chinese people are apolitical, and most Japanese expressively take big issues with their government and its views/policies). I do not know what kind of media has been telling you otherwise.

I mean hell, "Pixiv", ie the Japanese DeviantArt, is populated by Chinese viewers/users and artists outside of the intended Japanese userbase. Or that media such as Japanese drama, local movies and anime continue to be largely consumed in Chinese provinces. Now that shouldn't be an indication of some kind of hateful relationships between the parties now would it?

Also, you see me using Traditional Mandarin as opposed to Simplified. Let's just say the regions that use Traditional Mandarin has a slightly better relationship with Japan to begin with (not like there weren't bad waters to get over, but not as bad as mainland China), hence there is less reason for me to directly hate Japan. I mean, I don't worship them or something, but I don't hate them either.

Then again, this is all just about why I personally believe "Sekai" sounds a bit better than "Shijie", as if that actually means anything. I can't see why you actually care.

Argue on the basis of the topic, which you've yet to actually respond me. Either drop it, or counterargue it, but never just nitpicking on pointless and off-topic things such as what you're doing; and getting wrong at them too.

No.

EDIT: But since you haven't had anything worthy of an argument for some time now. I won't bother with you, really.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

I've already explained why BM Talon is more of a kitsune than Ahri (who hardly looks like any kind of mythological animal spirit, although I'm not an exper on Korean folklore).

Did I even need to explain it? It's pretty self evident. It'd be evident even to people who...

....wait, you said you're not gonna answer anyway, right? Nice way to bail out of an argument. I guess I won't bother either then, Japan-loving Chinese.

SEKAIJul 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I've already explained why BM Talon is more of a kitsune than Ahri (who hardly looks like any kind of mythological animal spirit, although I'm not an exper on Korean folklore).

Did I even need to explain it? It's pretty self evident. It'd be evident even to people who...

....wait, you said you're not gonna answer anyway, right? Nice way to bail out of an argument. I guess I won't bother either then, Japan-loving Chinese.

I counterargued it, it's me who are waiting for your reply as your last one was mixed with personal attacks (which I actually also answered the non-personal attack sections) and ever since then you're full on personal-attacking without ever responding to the points I'd made and matter to this thread. I merely said I won't bother with you, as in I have a very low expectation of you, not that I will refuse to answer if you do actually provide something worthwhile.

But then again, you proved it again that you're just not going to try anything. And so I won't. I've given up on you now, so to speak.

Also nice try at that "...". We all know there's nothing after those dots so let's not pretend.

Also, it's not my problem if you're just gonna have a skewed worldview of your own, and attack others for not conforming to it. Mate, that's not how it works.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

If it interests you so much, go search in this thread about my explanation on why BM Talon is a kitsune and Ahri isn't. I happen to have majored in Japanese language and culture.

Not that it should even be needed as even someone completely ignorant about Japanese folklore could tell, by looking at the designs, who is more mythological and who is more "anime".

SEKAIJul 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

If it interests you so much, go search in this thread about my explanation on why BM Talon is a kitsune and Ahri isn't. I happen to have majored in Japanese language and culture.

Not that it should even be needed as even someone completely ignorant about Japanese folklore could tell, by looking at the designs, who is more mythological and who is more "anime".

All you did i that other comment was showing that BM is indeed a Japanese skin-line, which nobody was arguing otherwise to begin with.

His "blade braids" are not symbolising tails. It's just something carried over from his Classic design, where those "tails" (complete with the blade tips) are supposed to represent feathers and talons, as his theme is related to a bird of prey and that's where his name even comes from. In BM, they simply switch out the fine cloths with rope braids for a theme switch given that the skin-line is Japan themed.

The only thing that references Kitsune remotely is just his fox mask. Which obviously, does not mean Talon is somehow "a closer Kitsune" than Ahri, even if the latter is a Korean variant of it.

................

Ahri has 9 tails unlike Talon's ""5 tails"",which let's be honest Talon's aren't tails to begin with. Ahri has canine like features on her human face, or at least drawings of it, a common depiction among fox-transformed people (this is not exclusive to fox spirits, all spirits and animals that could transform into people are all traditionally depicted as having an incomplete transformation where they retain some of their original features; such as a snake spirit would transform into someone with a snake-like tongue and hisses). Ahri is a beautiful woman, much like how the old tales usually say about what the fox turn into. Ahri seduces and consumes lives, a theme consistent with earlier portrayal of kitsune. Her primary means of combat is foxfire/fairyfire etc.

Meanwhile BM Talon has a fox mask and a alternate version of his Classic based on traditional Japanese inspired designs.

................

Sure, Ahri is NOT a kitsune but merely their cousin of sort, but if you think BM Talon still makes a better Japanese fox spirit than Ahri would then idk what to say.

SharjoJul 29, 20174 votes

Then why not elaborate to SEKAI on the reasons as to why Talon's a better kitsune than Ahri? Explain your points to have an actual debate, rather than a one sided conversation.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

I already did, in another comment here.

SharjoJul 29, 20178 votes

Well I personally don't think it matters since Ahri's a vastaya, not a kitsune.

And Bloodmoon Talon is a demon in that skin canon, so yeah.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well I personally don't think it matters since Ahri's a vastaya, not a kitsune.

And Bloodmoon Talon is a demon in that skin canon, so yeah.

Ahri has been a kitsune for a good.... five years? She's been randomly retconned into a "vastaya" only a couple months ago.

But truth is, she's not a kitsune. Not even a vastaya. She's a human succubus.

SharjoJul 29, 20175 votes

Innately connected to the latent power of Runeterra, Ahri is a vastaya who can reshape magic into orbs of raw energy. She revels in toying with her prey by manipulating their emotions before devouring their life essence. Despite her predatory nature, Ahri retains a sense of empathy as she receives flashes of memory from each soul she consumes.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

SharjoJul 29, 20175 votes

Well I mean I read her old and new bios. The truth of the matter, as far as lore is concerned, is that Ahri's a vastaya of an unknown tribe, and really that's about all that's important to me.

Ebonmaw DragonJul 29, 20175 votes

Ahiri is ionian, not japanese.

LanceworksJul 29, 20175 votes

Oh hey you're back to shitposting again

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Oh hey you're back to shitposting again

You seem to remember me.

Too bad I have no idea who you are.

JorenciceJul 29, 20173 votes

Hmm political threads aren't allowed because they MIGHT turn bad.

But this thread was legit made by OP only to harrass people and start fights and it's allowed to stay unlocked?

I mean 100% of the replys from the OP has been condescending.

Mods? Simply curious if there's rules against this.

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

lolcommunity1Jul 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Am I talking politics? No. Am I being condescending? Yes, and there is no rule against that. If you think this thread exists only to harass people, -I- will report -you- for harassment. You're basically trying to say I can't express my opinion because others disagree.

[removed]

You are not expressing opinions. You are trying to pass your argument as a fact. By saying that a fictional character in your alternate reality is something else then what it actually is doesn't make it so.

LunSeiSleideeJul 30, 20171 votes

Everyone passes their argument as a fact. It's called having an opinion.

SEKAIJul 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Everyone passes their argument as a fact. It's called having an opinion.

Opinion is a preference based on facts. Opinions can not be wrong, unless you're lying to yourself or something, but the facts in which one's opinion is based on can indeed, be wrong.

For example: If someone says (and I use this analogy often) "I hate chocolate because it's purple", it's an opinion that they hate chocolate which okay that's their thing no problem, but the fact in which they form their opinion onto, is wrong, because chocolates are not purple. Thus one should at least correct them on the fact that chocolates are not purple.

This is why opinions can still be corrected, to some extent, having an opinion doesn't mean it's excluded from criticisms for the reasons explained above.

ModWulf HelhammerJul 29, 20172 votes

Care to give any reason why? Because Ahri is a magic fox being that can steal others essence, and blood moon Talon is an assassin that may or may not be a spirit

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Care to give any reason why? Because Ahri is a magic fox being that can steal others essence, and blood moon Talon is an assassin that may or may not be a spirit

Ahri doesn't look like a fox. Nor does she look like a spirit. Nor does she look Japanese, despite the Japanese-sounding name.

Ahri is just a human succubus.

ModWulf HelhammerJul 29, 20174 votes

So how does that make Talon more of a kitsune?

And how does Ahri not fit into the category of "nine tailed humanoid fox being that steals others' souls" when she is a nine tailed humanoid fox being that steals others' souls?

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So how does that make Talon more of a kitsune?

And how does Ahri not fit into the category of "nine tailed humanoid fox being that steals others' souls" when she is a nine tailed humanoid fox being that steals others' souls?

I didn't say Talon, I said Blood Moon Talon.

Ahri is a human being. With fake tails slapped on her. it doesn't make her more of a fox than a guy wearing a tail prop.

ModWulf HelhammerJul 29, 20173 votes

Still haven't offered any evidence for BM Talon

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Still haven't offered any evidence for BM Talon

It's pretty self-evident if you know Japanese lore. It's like asking me for proof that Alistar looks like a minotaur.

But I'm guessing your knowledge of Japanese lore comes from anime,

ModWulf HelhammerJul 29, 20176 votes

Literally no one else on this entire thread understands a single point you're saying about BM Talon. If you're so knowledgeable about Japanese lore, then perhaps educate other instead of being a giant stick in the mud?

And anyways, you've already been proven wrong, as Ahri was never supposed to be a kitsunne anyway.

(And no, I don't pretend to know about Japanese culture. I barely watch anime, and most of what I do watch could barely give you any historical knowledge.)

LunSeiSleideeJul 29, 20171 votes

Very well.

First off, the outfit, which is obviously inspired by ancient Japanese outfits the same way Jarvan's or Garen's armour reference ancient Western armour.

The simple wooden mask cut out from a sacred tree.

The belt (not exactly the proper word, English isn't my language), which again references Shinto religion http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/a068de59ea064b929f342ac0e5cfcc45/the-sacred-tree-at-fuji-sengen-shrine-fujiyoshida-city-yamanashi-japan-aj45cn.jpg .

The coat referencing the tails (five tails in this case, because not all demon foxes have nine).

The symbol on the tip of the tails is another traditional Shinto symbol.

I could also add the hair, but...... hair of ancient Japanese spirits are used a lot in anime, they're the "spikey hair" of cartoons like Dragon Ball.

TyrekGoldenspearJul 29, 20171 votes

Incoming Kawaii Talon pics.

SEKAIJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Incoming Kawaii Talon pics.

http://new1.fjcdn.com/comments/4951256+_1bb9670c0d462f8f868b0ddc7abb3415.jpg

ModThe DjinnJul 30, 20171 votes

#THREAD LOCKED Hey all! This thread is devolving into a lot of personal comments, unrelated psuedo-insults, and generally not the sort of friendly, constructive conversation we try to encourage on these boards. I'm going to be shutting it down before it gets really out of hand.

If you have questions or concerns about this moderation action please visit us in the Moderation Discord here.

-The Djinn