Harrowing is a Lore/Narrative based thing, with the Harrowing Skins residing with the Skins Team. So how does the Esports portion of everything, decide to run out the Harrowing? It's not like they're saying "Hey Narrative come over and work on Esports". They're separate factions of work divisions.
Unless im missing the point, as then please kindly point out my flaws.
TurquoiseYoshi20 votesSo the Shadow and Fortune piece never happened? Okay cool.
Also, the main point is that Riot doesn't want to overload themselves or the players with tons of stuff on one day, and having the Worlds finals scheduled for Halloween kinda messes that up. People are getting upset that Riot prioritized the one that had pro players, and somehow that relates to Riot being greedy (I mean they would get more money from holding the Harrowing and selling the skins...).
ModAcademy Kayn20 votesMy point in my OP is vague, its 7:00 AM during an all nighter, but that's the point I'm trying to get at. Lore/Narative and Skin teams aren't responsible or liable at all for Esports. It's simple time budgeting, that give the feeling that Riot is all "E$PORT$BIGMONEY$". It's hard to be the consumer some times, but it's even harder for the Business to manage multiple events.
TurquoiseYoshi7 votesI think what Riot was thinking was that they didn't want the player to have too much happening on one day. I have no doubts that all of the skins and legacies are ready for release, but they were held back at the top level because of the finals of Worlds.
Also, I still don't get what money Riot gets from esports.
Sharjo7 votesAlso, I still don't get what money Riot gets from esports.
Esports is effectively a money sink, so it's more likely that Riot doesn't get nearly as much as you'd think they would off of the esports scene. All their income from consumers basically comes from people buying RP, which has nothing to do with esports in general, unless that is being used to advertise something, which is usually the esports skins (Championship, SKT, SSW, FNC, TPA, etc)
TBakes4 votesRiot probably makes a bit off of advertising, selling merch and stuff at the event, etc., but it definitely does not off-set the costs of the events (I mean, the tournament was in 4 different cities). They also benefit from the exposure of the game to possibly add more players to their base, but this is not guaranteed money. I really don't think it is financially motivated.
And I agree. I think they did not want to have the World Championships on the same day as other Harrowing-related stuff. They are more than likely putting in a lot of work for something cool and the player base on these boards just don't get it. They wonder why Reds aren't responding to their posts about it...
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesThey do have a theme for not telling things when they're near... Jaredan and his Soom(TM)
Xonra5 votesEsports is effectively a money sink
No, that is how it used to be, more specifically the LCS was a money sink, which is the only comment Riot has publicly made regarding money and ESports as far as losing money, and that comment was made years ago. Since then they have quite a few sponsors, don't have to hand hold teams moneywise 100%, they have streaming deals just like players do, and the list goes on and on.
They are also owned by a VERY wealthy Chinese company called Tencent, who puts a lot of money into ESports in general. So saying it is a money sink might have been vald 3 years ago, but it is quite the reverse today.
ChaoticPinecone4 votesId be extremely surprised if all the sponsors didnt give a cut to Riot: look at each of the team's jerseys. Each has at least 4-5 sponsors, some have closer to 10. Not to mention that teams like KT and SKT are named after gigantic telecommunication businesses, who are also probably sponsors.
And we are talking about viewers in the 20-30 million. They must get a lot of advertising.
Xonra2 votesId be extremely surprised if all the sponsors didnt give a cut to Riot look at each of the team's jerseys. Each has at least 4-5 sponsors, some have closer to 10. Not to mention that teams like KT and SKT are named after gigantic telecommunication businesses, who are also probably sponsors.
And we are talking about viewers in the 20-30 million. They must get a lot of advertising.
There is a reason Riot is very picky about who can sponsor teams, and so on. At least someone is thinking realistically :P
Xonra1 votesI think what Riot was thinking was that they didn't want the player to have too much happening on one day. I have no doubts that all of the skins and legacies are ready for release, but they were held back at the top level because of the finals of Worlds.
Also, I still don't get what money Riot gets from esports.
that's silly, seeing as the event started super early in the morning in NA and around midday in EU. It started at around 8 easter, so that's 5 hours behind the timezone (if I'm calculating correct) in the Timezone it started.
The games were quick and fairly meh, so how exactly did they not have time to do something? Worlds was over before it was even noon here, and earlier on the West Coast, and really not past afternoon most other places. It's a copout to say they didn't want to much in one day, when hardly anything happened. It was a one-sided stompfest as everyone expected and GG.
They couldn't flip the switch for some skins?
NaughtyCthulu4 votesThey make money off of advertising. Companys like Razor, and Samsung, will pay good money for that many people to see their stuff and brand. Why do you think super bowl commercial slots cost so much. There is a lot of money in esports for riot its not from players though.
I Main Swain5 votesa fantastic solution of that would have been to schedule Worlds on a different day...
Xonra2 votes[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=c4vsGswK,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-11-01T20:35:40.275+0000)
a fantastic solution of that would have been to schedule Worlds on a different day...
Most Finals have been on Sunday, so I don't know why they suddenly decided Saturday would be better.
Then again had they not given every single group a full week for their games, it might not have ended on the 31st, as last year ended on the 18th ish I believe (too lazy to go check) and had just as many games if I remember correctly (as far as groups, and so on)
NaughtyCthulu3 votesSunday is a big day for football and they probly didn't want to compete for ratings, admittedly they are at different times but maybe.
Xonra1 votes[{quoted}](name=Underwater Tiger,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=c4vsGswK,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-02T17:22:53.273+0000)
Sunday is a big day for football and they probly didn't want to compete for ratings, admittedly they are at different times but maybe.
Never really stopped 'em before to be quite honest. Also, If you mean football as in American Football/NFL, only the US (not NA just the US mostly) watched the NFL or cares about it for the most part, and seeing as NA actually has less players than Korea, China, or EU, I doubt that is a concern.
Biffolo2 votesI'm sorry, but offsetting the bit tournament that matters is a bit absurd for a couple of skins. They could have done something, but moving the tournament for something so minor is insane.
I Main Swain2 voteslol "a couple skins"
first of all, it isn't just "a couple skins". it's an entire event, literally a league of legends tradition. it's like moving christmas to a different day because the presidential election is that day. the amount of ease with which they could shift the time of Worlds is astronomical. the Harrowing is very much a major thing and is looked forward to by the vast majority of the player base.
Biffolo1 votesWhat? No. You can't just shift the time or worlds with ease. This thing has been in planning for about a year I'd imagine. They would have to reschedule venues, get preperations for EVERYTHING done again, for a "tradition" as you so call it. All traditions die off eventually, and so long as it's something worthwhile replacing it, it's ok in my books.
I Main Swain1 votesyou say that like they couldnt have planned it at a different time to begin with. and youre right, traditions do die off. major celebrated events dont.
Biffolo1 votesOctober is worlds time, this year it ran a little bit late so teams could have a bit more time to prepare in between games. Saying it's easier for them to change a real world even than for them to change something digitally is insane. It's much easier to just release content a bit later than to change the planning of the entire tournament.
I Main Swain1 votesi said it would make more sense not be easier. theres a huge difference.
Biffolo1 votesMake more sense in what context though? From my eyes, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to move some useless lore event in favor of actual meaningful things, like the world championships. You seem to think the opposite, and it was the easier of the two to move this. I don't get why people are so up in arms about it. I don't know why they feel entitled to this stuff. Plenty of other games don't even do things for halloween and stuff, yet you guys complain when something takes precedence over it once.
I Main Swain1 voteshow is it useless? because you dont find it interesting? riot makes a ton of money off of the Harrowing and gives players something new to be excited about. saying otherwise is like saying christmas is useless and unimportant because you dont celebrate it and there are lots of other people who dont celebrate it. so basically, theres something interactive that gets players excited to play the game and spend more money vs something that riot actually pays for that makes people want to watch others play.
and as far as rescheduling goes, they wouldn't have had to reschedule anything if they were smarter about when they initially scheduled Worlds for.
Biffolo1 votesAnd have to move around the entire lcs seasons? Worlds has always been in october, they went for a better tournament setup this year with the scheduling, and it worked out. If they were to move the tournament forward, lcs would have all had to have started earlier, and msi would have had to have been pushed back, but what if they couldn't get the venue for it the week before? It's much easier instead of accounting for all of those possibilities to do things the way they have been, and push a digital event back a little bit. It's the smarter thing to do. You need to look at this from a logical perspective.
Smithney9 votesI think the controversy stems mainly from Riot not communicating their intentions well enough. People were expecting their holiday skins to be shipped (or made available from the legacy vault) on the celebration day. However, for some peculiar reason, Riot decided to only release the Harrowing story and not tell the out-of-PBE fanbase that the holiday skins will be delayed. Certain people seem to get very upset when their holiday events don't arrive on time, as one could experience two years ago. It might seem that the Worlds were the main reason why Riot missed the Harrowing date this year, and I am afraid that actually could be the reason. Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if Tencent, a Chinese corporation, directed Riot to ommit the Halloween event in favor of Worlds, as the holiday isn't very popular in the Far East and could theoretically affect the amount of people watching the finals. I'm not an economist, but I could say China and Korea are a pretty big market for computer games.
Hellioning1 votesTencent has nothing to do with Riot's operations. Especially not for something as small as a possible week-long event.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesRealistically, it is way easier to postpone a holiday event, than a freaking tournament that relies on renting out a stadium/stage to host it's teams and fans. It's expensive for sure, not to mention that the only real profit Riot gets is hoping that fans will buy RP or Merch.
I'd be surprised if they even ran even on costs, let alone got profit, since ticket sales mainly go to replacing the money spent.
Lucariolu2 votesRealistically, it is way easier to postpone a holiday event, than a freaking tournament that relies on renting out a stadium/stage to host it's teams and fans. It's expensive for sure, not to mention that the only real profit Riot gets is hoping that fans will buy RP or Merch.
I'd be surprised if they even ran even on costs, let alone got profit, since ticket sales mainly go to replacing the money spent.
must they postpone it tho? all people care about (mostly) are the skins, and they could have released the skins on a timeframe during worlds, i mean it's not like you'll lose the skin after halloween. yeah they might release the skins later on but i already used my money on other game events since this never happened when it mattered.
Smithney1 votesI don't believe Riot aren't getting any profit from the entire LCS phenomenon. I can almost imagine all the money coming from not just the things you mentioned, but also from people watching pros on Twitch.tv, buying gaming gear and other stuff connected to the entire threatre.
When it comes to business, there's one golden rule I stick to: "If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is too good to be true."
ChaoticPinecone2 votes{quoted} I'd be surprised if they even ran even on costs, let alone got profit, since ticket sales mainly go to replacing the money spent.
Let me paint a scenario: they played the finals at the Mercedes Benz Hockey Arena in Berlin, which seats 17,000. Its a small arena, and probably doesnt cost too much to rent out (in comparison to a soccer arena in Berlin like the Olympiastadion, which seats 75,000). And remember - performers have used that Arena before too, and musicians like Rhianna or One Direction make money off those concerts. Riot didnt charge as much as musicians do - they charged about half as much - but they dont need to turn a profit from live sales. its very likely that Riot at least ran even on costs from the live tickets alone.
Now, online viewership for 2014 worlds was 32 million. This year its probably higher. How much do you think Twitch, Youtube, and Azubu paid for that kind of viewership? In comparison, the NBA finals were viewed by 20 million, and made over $200 million in ads. And keep in mind that the NBA only takes 3 hours per day, while League takes closer to 5 or 6.
Then comes the sponsors for each of the teams - look at each of the team jerseys and/or the brand names like SK Telecom. Do you really think the sponsors arent forced to give a little cut back to Riot?
And if you still dont believe me on how profitable Esports is, read this article http://fortune.com/2015/05/12/coke-esports-big-screen/. Esports in general made about $200 million last year. This year its expected to be around $500 million. And remember - League takes over half of the Esports market. Its difficult to say how much of the total revenue Riot makes, but it isnt crazy to assume its about half. No, thats still not the majority of their business (Riot made close to $1 billion last year). But they arent losing money on it.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesAhhhhh totally didn't account online profits from Twitch and etc. The internet still confuses me :T
MeesterMoo4 votesHey, be nice to narrative, they just wrote a story, everyone needs a break from time to time. (Sarcasm)
CasterGilgamesh3 votesi don't understand why riot couldn't do the harrowing during Esports this year's worlds so was fucking boring.i honestly dislike that i started watching worlds this year since it was so disappointing especially since this is the year double teleport becomes a thing and ruins the game.i would have loved a good harrowing and the story as ok i guess but it wasnt big enough that i wouldnt want a harrowing event as well they didnt even bother making icons for the event.so much missed opertunity lol all for fucking Esports? that's not possible that's just dumb i like riot but they sometimes really make me question their competence or if not that at least their priorities....
t0ad52 votesThey have lost touch with their average customer.
KnivingDude1 votesWho needs keep on buying http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/hmwikia/images/3/39/Chickensnes.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120505224313
When you can buy http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/hmwikia/images/6/68/Ajsbkg.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120420032751
Riot/Tencent Ideals.
