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Does Anyone Else Hate Riven's Lore and Personality?

Forhonor321·11/19/2016, 4:45:34 AM·8 votes·1,722 views

So just in order to blow off some steam from some failed promo series ( I swear this flex que is just fucking with me at this point), I've decided to start making posts that I've been meaning for some time. One of those being, of course, the discussion on why I hate Riven's lore and personaility and see if anyone else feels the same. Now if you like her lore and personaility, that's fine. I'm just listing why I don't like it.

So first her lore: She goes into the army with her faith of that Noxus is for the strong, goes to the Ionian war, essentially gets betrayed by Singed, gets PTSD from all of this, and shatters her sword and self exiles herself since she's declared dead and try to strive to save her "pure Noxian vision in which she believed." Now to be fair this is old-ish lore but nevertheless there are just some things that have never held up with me, like what exactly is her pure Noxian vison? I mean it does talk about her believing in the motive that strength is all that matters for the country but is that really it? If Noxus is to acquire strength as per their motive, then they need to set out and conquer territories. However, when trying to invade Ionia they proved to be a little more resistant to their movement so instead of trying to make them surrender and convert to their society, as Noxus has probably done with many other nations (at least from what I've read on the new Universe page) they instead of going the method of exterminating them all so then they can just make it easier for them to occupy. Granted you can say that this Noxus is a bit more corrupt, but even still this method could apply to the Noxus we might not have seen before. So Riven exiling herself doesn't really make any sense to keep her vision of "strength means everything" when that's still what the nation was doing. Hell, Kled I feel has a better motive for not following Noxus since he implies it was originally created to serve the faithful and whatnot. To me that implies that he doesn't follow it because most Noxians now aren't really trained to be faithful as they were back when he first joined, not about strength is everything. (plus I like his personality so much more)

Second, if Singed was the one who killed Riven's unit why doesn't she make it a mission to go after him and either get revenge/ avenge her comrades? Insert your "because you never chase Singed" joke here, but really it doesn't make sense. You can say it has to do with PTSD she got but even then I feel like after all that horror she still should have some motive for going after this fucker since he didn't really seemed to be punished for killing Noxian troops that he was hired to help out. I'd probably go after him myself if I was in her position.

3: HOW HAS NO ONE FROM NOXUS REALIZED THAT SHE'S STILL ALIVE?!?! Remember, they declared her dead after that battle but ever since then she still wears pieces of her old armor and even still keeps her broken sword, which seems pretty iconic due to it's size even broken. She was even described as the poster child of the Noxian spirit, meaning that people looked up to her and heard about her, most notably what she looked like I assume. So nobody questions a thing when they hear news of a white haired woman with a giant broken blade and scraps of Noxian armor roaming around various parts of Valoran? It just doesn't make sense if she isn't going to try and disguise herself better than that and find a different weapon to wield.

And now that brings me to her personality: I loathe her personality all together. She just sounds so depressed to me. AGAIN this has to do with her PTSD but really listen back to some of her dialogue. It goes like "So much death", "My hands are stained" where she complains about how much death there is, including the possible innocent lives that she has taken, hence why I feel she would go into self exile and that I can kinda understand but still is a bit annoying to me. But then when I hear stuff like "Violence to end violence", "There is no other way", "You are beyond redemption" I'm just like WTF. When you went into self exile to atone for your sins I'd imagine you'd also try to give up violence, but no she's just like "oh so much death and blood. Let me murder you to end the violence because there isn't another way out of this." Bitch there were possibly a million other ways to handle this, like IDK put down the sword once and for all and maybe, MAYBE, try living a peaceful life away from all of society? The last quote though with her saying your beyond redemption just really hits my nerves. What honestly makes her think you or anyone is beyond redemption but she isn't. Like I said, she continually carries around the sword and by speculation possibly still kills people, some of which may actually be able to redeem themselves but to her are unworthy to except herself. Just........I just hate how she acts like this.

So that's just my speculation of how I view Riven from a story and personality point of view. Again if you like this about her, that's fine. I'm just expressing my opinion on this subject. What do you guys feel?

9 Comments

Ryugi Kazamaru11/19/2016, 6:56:25 AM4 votes

It's a Friday night and I have nothing better to do, so I'm gonna take a crack at addressing your points as someone who is on the opposite side of the table. I very much enjoy Riven's lore and personality, and I think it fits perfectly into the "New Lore" setting.

The First Point

Your first point is a little hard to follow, but I'll try to tackle it first. In effect, Riven didn't exile herself to "save the pure Noxian vision in which she believed." Instead, she shattered her blade to break the ties to her past self and past life as a soldier killing without conscience or ethical pause. She then Exiled herself to seek redemption for the sins of her past (stained hands meaning stained with blood, similar to Macbeth and his guilt from Shakespeare's play of the same name), and to find a way to fight for her own vision of what Noxus should be.

To her, the chemical bombardment was not strength. It didn't matter how "strong" the soldiers were on either side, something outside of their strength and ability won the fight, and as per the concepts she had taken to heart, her whole world view was shattered, leaving her without a purpose. Even in new lore, Noxus is shown to be accommodating to those who take a knee and hand over their freedoms and territory to their new masters, but Ionia's honor and mentality would obviously refuse that, which meant there was no option in the Noxian mentality but to exterminate all of them and take it by brute force.

The thing is, to Riven, the absolute and indiscriminate killing of everything without consideration given to strength of the individual soldier is weak and honorless. A true Noxian, in Riven's mind, would sooner die at the hands of an enemy like the Ionians in pitched battle than fall to a force they are literally powerless to oppose. A death where physical might, prowess, and skill literally mean nothing would/should be terrible to them. I should note Kled would likely agree with Riven on this given his mentality. Riven is also the only Noxian champion Kled actually has anything positive to say about (calling her a pure Noxian girl etc). And, the fact that the Noxus she had been fighting for effectively stooped to using such low and vile tactics was what shattered her beliefs.

So, Riven broke her blade as a symbol to break ties with her past, and exiled herself to try and find a path where she can find redemption for the suffering she's caused, and for those who were lost to needless, cowardly slaughter and death. In Noxus, strength is a multi-faceted thing. There is not just a single doctrine about what strength is to a Noxian. It's their own personal view, empowered by the culture, that they follow. Riven embodied the spirit of her people so much, that when she saw how those in command were actually using, or not using, their doctrine in combat, it caused her belief to break. She couldn't understand how that action could exist. It wasn't defeating a foe with the strength of the nation, is was just slaughter, and a sacrifice of loyal lives. That's where the biggest issue lies for her.

The Second Point

It's perfectly possible that Riven didn't know who bombarded her unit. In the military, you don't know who is in command of every single unit. If you order for an artillery strike, you don't know the names of those people. All you know is that you need fire support and suppression, and you asked for it. So, without some kind of fancy communication, which Riven didn't have (she had a distress flare and used it), it's very possible to assume she doesn't know that Singed did it.

In New Lore, this makes even more sense, as the world is not as interconnected as it once was, meaning that for Riven to find out who killed her unit, she would likely have to hunt down someone in the know. Right now, Riven is more concerned with finding her personal redemption and finding a way to fight for her own Noxian vision. Exacting revenge would probably come second to that greater goal, especially once she "reforges" herself. However, should Riven ever gain that knowledge, and the opportunity presents itself, I don't see Riven going easy on him.

The Third Point

The world is a big place, and not everyone would know who Riven is outside of Noxus. And even then, it's possible some Noxian Citizens don't know who Riven is, and probably don't even care. Champions may be pretty famous within their own realms, but go beyond them, and that fame begins to drop off, within reason. Also, Riven's story hasn't been touched in any fashion since she was released back in late 2011. Since then, there has been no canonical updates to her character or her story, other than adding Yasuo into the mix as a rival and someone that's hunting the woman she was in her past, and the small removal of the League from it. And even Yasuo has gotten more lore development than Riven has, despite her being out far longer. He has a pupil, and got a nice story written for him.

Considering that the Old Lore was very much a closed universe in lots of ways, New Lore offers far more possibilities for expansion of her story, and her role in the overall progression and development of Noxus. Jaredan has stated on his AskFm that he believes Riven will be a pivotal figure in the future development of Noxus, and therefore, the rest of Valoran itself. But until Riot begins telling stories in Noxus or Demacia again, and begins moving those areas forward, I don't see much progression for Riven's story. So, basically, it isn't that people haven't heard rumors of Riven. They might have. It's that Riot hasn't pushed her story forward at all.

If you want a possible preview, though, Xypherous once said he'd hoped Riven would lead a Noxian Civil War to "reforge that which is broken", and after that, she'd return to Ionia to try and find redemption and peace there.

The Personality

This comes from Xypherous (Riven's designer) from a thread long ago. Basically, when Riven reforges her blade, it is representing her "reforged" self, after searching for meaning and her path, she finally has a moment of clarity and a flash of inspiration. In that state, she knows her purpose, she's left her doubts behind, she's not looking back to her past, but toward a future where her pure Noxian vision is the prevailing one among the people.

And the quote about her enemy being beyond redemption? It's her fighting someone representative of the impure Noxian vision, or representative of that cold, inhuman outlook on killing and sacrifice that's lead to so much death, deaths Riven feels guilty for and laments in her other, more vulnerable and uncertain state of mind. To serve the greater good, she fights. She uses violence to end future violence. The strike she's making is necessary, a needed sacrifice to change things for the better.

The thing is, Riven is not the same sort of bloodthirsty Noxian as the rest of their champions. She once was just as vicious as the rest of them, but that was before Ionia. When she ults and reforms her sword, it's representative of her reforged self. It's a self that isn't killing mercilessly or without pause or question, but someone who understands the cost and meaning of a life, who is only fighting so strongly because it is necessary for the greater good, or to eliminate someone who cannot change, one who is "beyond redemption."

You can choose to think what you like, of course, but that's simply my take on things.

Leyrann11/19/2016, 6:34:58 AM4 votes

As a lore fan that mains Riven, let me answer your points. Before anything though, remember that this lore is over five years old, which makes it really outdated. I think that, if Riven were to get a rework or something like that, or if Riot would start overhauling the Noxus lore, we would see a dramatically changed Riven lore. That said, I'll try to explain from the old point when it was originally written.

"Only the strong survive, she repeated… but that was meaningless here. Nobody would survive. By all rights, the Ionians should have won this fight, but they too would die. How did this follow the Noxian way?"

This is part of her judgement, where she relives the battle with the assault. Her belief, above all else, is that "the strong survive", and to her, as it shows in her judgement, too, that means that the best army should win, wheter it is the Noxian army, or the Ionian army. At the moment that she realizes that the poison is going to kill everyone, however, she realizes that that means that whoever is stronger doesn't matter anymore. Instead, she feels, Noxus is just being brutal, wanting to conquer without caring about who is actually stronger, and making an alliance with the chem-barons from Zaun that just bombard battles that go wrong so that everyone dies, making it a tie, so to say.

What she wants, I feel, is to change Noxus, to have it be warlike, and about strength, but honest, in that they fight battles just by clashing the armies and letting the best army/general win without interventions when things go south.

On your point about Singed: Back when Riven's lore was written, the lore was far more disjointed and static. On top of that, from her judgement it seems that she does not as much care about her army dying (honestly they would have died to the ambush anyways, as they were losing) as she cares about Noxus (who gave the order to launch the chemical barrage) not letting the stronger party win. If you look at it from the right angle, you could maybe even call it a kind of "don't shoot the messenger". On top of that, does she even know who launched the chemical barriage? In her judgement, at least, she talks about "the Melters", and I feel like Singed was only one of the people involved in it.

On your third point: I don't know, but it's far from the only inconsistency in (mostly the older) lore. I do not even know how long ago the war was in the timeline (10 years? 20 years? Just finished?), and we don't know where she has gone. But really, you could ask such questions about basically everything: "With void monsters roaming around, how come no one believes Kassadin's warnings about the void invasion?", "How come all the (good) mages aren't working together trying to find something to push back the Harrowing that comes further every year?", "How did no one ever realize that all the queens from one Freljord factions were actually all Lissandra?".

On her personality: The quotes that you mentioned are attack quotes. So basically, you're telling her to attack someone and then you're complaining about it? You don't know what the hell she may try if she comes across someone outside of the League to avoid fighting them. No one knows, because we've never seen any of it. Of course she's fighting a lot ingame despite disliking fighting (apparently from other quotes), because that's what the game is about and it's what she's being told to do (remember that the summoners control the actions of the champions). And I can understand her having her sword at all times. There's probably a lot of people out there who want to see her dead, like with Yasuo (and Yasuo being one of them, too, I guess), and she probably doesn't want to die yet. At this point, it's basically the gun control discussion but with swords.

Beyond Legends11/19/2016, 5:33:42 AM3 votes

Honestly Riven personality was by product of Riot trying to make Noxus have shade of grey. Honestly her personality made no sense in the new lore. I mean she couldn't blame anyone for getting nuked she got caught out by the enemy, granted Singed might been a bit overkill in his solution, but he was following order by Noxian high command. Hell the whole Ionian war looks as if bad case of Icompatent managment and poor decisions all around.

Hell I really hate that people made Riven this savior character when she is obviously an deserter that couldn't get the big picture.

Ralanr11/19/2016, 8:12:21 PM2 votes

My biggest issue with Riven is how regretful she seems after killing. Despite diving me under my tower.

Her quotes really don't reflect any Noxian connection, but there may be a point to that since she's left Noxus and trying to find her own path.

That own path is "true Noxus" however and that's really confusing.

Handy Sandy 11/19/2016, 4:46:29 AM1 votes

take a pic of it and photoshop it and make it how u want

GreenLore11/19/2016, 12:12:48 PM1 votes

The problem with the bombardement is more that its not "the strong survive",but more that its "no one survives",not to mention that it is still her own country attacking her and her men just to murder the enemy,no one would be happy about that. Besides Riven wanted to prove her worth in epic battles,but was instead told to slaughter the weakened.

Singed might have made the weapons,but that doesn't mean that he fired the shots at Rivens unit. Riven herself might not know which commander is responsible for bombarding her unit. Besides Rivens lore is outdated,back when it was made,her lore ended with "and so she joined the League",if they update her lore,they might give her a new goal.

Who says that they aren't aware of her? I mean why would they even care?For them Riven is dead and even if she is still alive,they likely don't mind. Not to mention that valoran is a huge place and riven isn't a worldwide celebrity.She was likely a bit famous in certain parts of noxus,but after her exile she didn't really do much that would be worth of fame.

Kotex11/19/2016, 8:05:54 PM1 votes

I like the idea of there being a "shade of grey" in Noxus. As of right now all noxians behave and function the same and that is their teaching and way of life, but aside from that teaching and way of life, none of them particularly exhibit their own unique personality that adheres to this way of life except for maybe draven. Darius, Kat, Swain, Kled, Sion--Theyre all characters driven by a thirst for blood and fighting, whereas riven is calm, wise, driven by other emotions and reasons besides fighting and brutality in the name of her upbringing, though she is capable of such acts as an established warrior born, raised, and acknowledged within the hierarchy of Noxus. As someone mentioned above she believes in strength and power, but not brutality for its own sake.

Just like riot made Ekko for the purpose of having a heroic character from Zaun in contrast to its plethora of villains and antagonists like Viktor, Dr. Murder-everyone-in-the-name-of-science, or like Ionians have there lust for power in contrast to how a majority of Ionians embody peace and harmony as their way of life.

Ive always found that more appealing to her than for her to just be another "Im from noxus! I want to fight and kill everything BECAUSE im from noxus." Rather i feel that kind of attitude given to Noxian characters is more or less diluting Noxus's actual teaching of Power as it makes their way of life seem to be more about bloodlust and malice rather than strength.