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I just realized why out of all champs Viktor's fanbase is so loud...

SaltyToplaneGoat··20 votes·1,960 views

I think every champion has that single one hardcore-fan out there. Like, Malicious Metal who has literally become the acolythe of Mordekaiser, or Superb Villain who, if I remember correctly, is in eternal service to the Tiny Master of Eeeeevil. But these are individuals and one cannot make a judgement of a whole fanbase based on one single person.

Yet the Viktor fanbase seems to be extremly passionate and as they are as a group there has to be something with Viktor's specific design that makes these people flock to him. There are a few reasons why people get passionate about characters, either it's their uniqueness (Aurelion Sol comes to mind. Sassy Star Dragon? THAT'S what i callm unique even as someone who reads a ton of fantasy) or their fanbase identifies themselves with them.

Viktor's theme is not exactly unique, the blurring line of machinery and biological life has been a thing in fiction since almost a century. And his moral greyness was not anything to spend much time thinking about either. I realized that the answer was much, much simpler.

And for that we need to look at Jayce, his direct antagonist. The one character that opposes him and, somehow, hints to be the opposite of him. Now, here is what Jayce appeared like before new lore came and made him a collossal jerk (which is not a bad thing, actually a world without jerks is kinda weird) and Viktor... whatever will come with the new lore once it gets released.

Jayce was talented. Good Looking. Popular. Has a muscular body in addition to his brains. He has social status. He has wealth. He's celebrated as a nation wide hero. In short: he's literally better at everything you could do or be.

And now placed next to him: A misunderstood nerd outcast from society because "he was too smart for them" and they didn't like his ideas.

And yes, it is that mudane: it boils down to the "popular kid" who got blessed with good genes, talent and a good upbringing and who hit puberty far before everyone else VERSUS the poor outcast nerd no one likes, who with that got the underdog status.

I'm not saying that all Viktor fans are sad little nerds or whatever, but reconsider this: most of the playerbase in league has their school years long behind them. Maybe not 20 years, but long enough to go back into a time where being a "nerd" was a crippling social stigma. Heck, even in my time ten years ago I was the weird kid who liked computer games and meddling with tech. I know, this "popular kid vs the weak nerd" clichee has been overdone a thousand times especially in other media, but there lies a certain truth within it, or at least there has been back then. It might have changed a little for kids today though, due to previous domains of nerdiness have hit the mainstream hard.

And who comes to post here on the forums? Those people who actully go to the boards and move through the online world, which, against all what we usually tend to believe, is A SMALL MINORITY COMPARED TO LoLs ACTUAL PLAYERBASE. Out of my circle of friends who play this game I'm the only one browsing the forums regulary and not just when a sever breaks or something and want to know what's going on.

To be on these boards usually means you are a nerd, at least by the old standards of the word, and chances are you have always been that kind of "nerd".

So we got a place were people falling into the old concept of "nerd" are overrerpresented. And now we have a champion who literally embodies this entire "the underdog nerd who has to square off against a bully who just got everything for free". Maybe this is why people gets so passionate about Viktor: because they subconsciously project theirselves on his old lore.

No one complained about Jayce now being a total prick. If anything, it fit perfectly into his "bully" role in this play. But now that Viktor becomes more of a detailed character and gets harder to project upon due to a massive reduce of the vagueness old lore had way too much of... yeah, I can see why that gets people pissed. As I was the "nerd kid" myself back in the day, I can totally understand what was the appeal of old Viktor to certain people.

The thing is: characters don't soely exist so people can project their ideas upon them. That's, if anything, the job of the author and the author alone. Sure, you can do that like with any character, but that is not the defining feature of one. The loss of a projection surface due to a change IS IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY A LEGIT CRITICISM ON THE CHANGE ITSELF.

Authors write to create stories and characters, not empty projection surfaces for you as a reader to fill out!

Eh, it's half past midnight now and I hope this actually made some sense, but I think that concludes what I think about the Viktor-fanbase's collective screeching since the Jayce lore has been released. Maybe some of the rabid complainers gotta be honest with themselves and ask if they really liked the old Viktor - or just what he allowed them to project upon him...

25 Comments

A Superb Villain9 votes

A reasonable argument, logical. I suppose some might develop an attachment to Viktor based on circumstantial similarities. I liked Viktor's story because it subverted the typical "mad scientist" archetype. The Glorious Evolution could have been a scheme of global domination under the banner of "improving" humanity by stripping them of free will through augmentations, all the while Viktor cackling as he twirls his mustache, or becomes so detached from his humanity he genuinely believes a species devoid of emotion is superior. Instead, his story leans toward transhumanist concepts via prosthetic and implants, which does not end in the subjugation of all mankind, nor guaranteeing a utopia of augmented beings who have surpassed the limitations of humanity.

Making Viktor a villainous mad scientist, regardless of his intentions, is just retreading a trope that has been around since the first functional civilization. Trans- and Post-humanism are relatively new concepts that are relevant to current trends in technological innovation, and is not so clear on how they will impact society.

Also, I moonlight as a Viktor fan.

http://i.imgur.com/y3UhX1p.gif?noredirect

SaltyToplaneGoat3 votes

The trope of the Mad Scientist is quite old, in medial standards almost antique, the prime example being the famous Dr. Frankenstein of Mary Shelly's "The modern Prometheus" of 1818. Since then it has undergone countless changes, from the data-obsessed freak to the (almost) comically evil villain.

Given that the people of the early modern age had barely any concept of what science is or how it worked, it was incredibly easy to mystify. From mystery you can either create the fantastical, or the uncanny unknown, something that is often feared by people. And what do people with their fears? They materialize them in stories, give them form and face so they can fight them. Just how Godzilla was Japan's way of somehow working up the trauma of the devastation nuclear power has caused, the "Evil Scientist" has become the materialization of the fear of the unknown potential that was science to them.

It should be notable that we see a lot less of these villains nowadays, mostly because the common understanding of the world has changed. Viktor however, even in his seemingly "unique" form, is nothing special. Just because it is not striking into the most prominent trope, doesn't mean he's not already in a well known and established sub-variation of it, and with that not a subvertion.

And as I talked of Frankenstein above, transhumanism is not a new thing either. Heck, even here the title goes back into ancient greek mythology, where several stories have "attaining god-hood" or "achieving immortality" as a transhumanistic premise. Going from there we have the concept in countless sci-fi stories, from Star Trek to Dr. Who, over all media. Technically every super-hero comic is somehow a discussion of a variance of transhumanism, "Superman" pretty much being the absolute prime example here.

But if a character cannot be innovative, that doesn't mean they inevitably fail. As long as the execution is well done everything is still fine.

However, the execution of Viktor's tropes in the old lore was lackluster at best, maybe one of the main reason I lack any overbearing attachment to it. The new one seems slightly different, but I rather prefer a properly written evil over a vague moral grey. After all vagueness doesn't contribute to a story's quality, unless that vagueness is absolutely essential to it, either from a narrative point of view (f. ex. Crime, Who did it? You can remain vague for an entire story, but then at the end you have to reveal it, or the reader will feel like you wasted a collossal amount of their time) or from a topic point of view (Lovecraft's horror, where vagueness is all that remains when we to grasp the unspeakable horrors beyond our realm). Apart from that, vagueness has no place in a good story I'd say.

DragonShea1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Superb Villain,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=RvpTAFzn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-12T00:07:58.521+0000)

A reasonable argument, logical. I suppose some might develop an attachment to Viktor based on circumstantial similarities. I liked Viktor's story because it subverted the typical "mad scientist" archetype. The Glorious Evolution could have been a scheme of global domination under the banner of "improving" humanity by stripping them of free will through augmentations, all the while Viktor cackling as he twirls his mustache, or becomes so detached from his humanity he genuinely believes a species devoid of emotion is superior. Instead, his story leans toward transhumanist concepts via prosthetic and implants, which does not end in the subjugation of all mankind, nor guaranteeing a utopia of augmented beings who have surpassed the limitations of humanity.

Making Viktor a villainous mad scientist, regardless of his intentions, is just retreading a trope that has been around since the first functional civilization. Trans- and Post-humanism are relatively new concepts that are relevant to current trends in technological innovation, and is not so clear on how they will impact society.

Also, I moonlight as a Viktor fan.

http://i.imgur.com/y3UhX1p.gif?noredirect

Yep another thing is that a lot people in universe at least. Think that Victor is just a mad scientist that is a threat to humanity, while in fact he is what you just said. a man that genuine wants to do good for people. trans humanism is a scary thing because as people we have the potential to become greater than ever before but risk losing what makes us human in the process. Also, the Glorious Evolution DOES mean what says and ain't some bullshit that a villain just says to trick people. It's a movement meant for the furthering of human capabilities via mechanical augmentation.

On a side note since I am a rather perverted bastard but also respectful and cool with sexual stuff. The question remains on reproduction. humans are a lustful species so I wonder how in the world Victor would even think about helping people reproduce if his dream did become a reality, because just straight up cloning people would be fucked up. If anything I think that vic may want to make people a fusion of organics and mechanics on a cellular level in so that through nano-technology enhanced natural reproduction, people could still have children with the core natural means remaining intact but that is just my two cents on the matter.

333lom7 votes

Your rather large essay is actually quite useless. We already said we identify with Viktor to a certain extent. You can read about that in my posts.

And not only is this perfectly fine, the ability of a character to allow the audience to identify wit them** is the only key to making the main character successful.**

Viktor is not a foil for Jayce. He was created as his standalone character in the original lore. He is the protagonist of his own story. I'm rather surprised to see you don't know that the main characters have to be identifiable with. Read what any good writer or director said about their characters, for example if you want, Miyazaki has good explanation on his main characters.

I also have many friends who love Viktor's original lore, but they never glanced the Boards. You can't correlate the number of "nerds" on Boards with the number of genuine Viktor fans.

Also, this is the second thread you make just to attack people who are putting their time into fighting for this character. It is obvious you are approaching from the standpoint of "new lore is by default better" and you didn't even take into consideration any of our large explanation threads. If anything, the new lore is more illogical and cliche. You farm for upvotes, while we fight for a character.

SkyMagpie4 votes

I agree, Viktor was a unique character that was deeply loved even before Jayce came out - Jayce's lore change only proved it.

Besides the part of the people that weren't on the boards (myself until recently) are not included in your observation.

We love Viktor because in his original lore he was very much interesting and had a lot of potential to develop in a great and interesting character and it had nothing to do with Jayce. Jayce was an addition to Viktor's lore not the other way around.

Ask the Herald6 votes

What? No? What irks us Viktor "fanboys", as you so mildly put it, about Riot's vision for him is that it's yet another example of the stereotypical "cyborg is not good" element that infests so much fiction in the current decade. Granted, there are quite a lot of heroic and irrefutably good cyborg characters (like Genos from One Punch Man, any Megaman, and even Cyborg of DC acclaim who's going to be showing up in the upcoming Justice League film), but there are far more ignoble and downright nasty cyborg characters. Viktor was the first cyborg in fiction to have not leaned to either side significantly - his cause was noble enough but the results of his work were super questionable, especially his drastic personality change from humanitarian to transhuman.

ChaoticPinecone5 votes

If this is what irks you, you need to read New Jayce lore again.

VIktor's causes are still quite noble - preventing physical decay, eliminating irrational prejudice, preventing from panicking and injuring themselves, eradicate hunger, disease, hatred, and save humanity from itself. The only problem is that his results are super questionable - especially since the problems he believes plagues humanity is from the free will of people, and their ability to harm each other.

Heres the thing - you react exactly how the writers wanted you to react, meaning that the writers did a really good job. In Jayce and Piltover's eyes, Viktor is the villain. But what about from Zaun's eyes?

  • From Orianna's lore, "An explosion had released a cloud of noxious fumes, poisoning the air in the surrounding streets. Left untreated, the chemicals would cause organ failure and a slow, lingering death. Those infected were sequestered to a medical encampment in the heart of Zaun."
  • From Vi's, "None of the old timers from Vi's youth could tell her anything of her parents, with most assuming they had simply died in one of the industrial accidents that were, sadly, all too common in Zaun."
  • And from Camille, "Velveteen fabrics in dark colors were draped over the parts of their bodies that were still flesh, while their metal arms and augmented legs were exposed to the warm light. Here, high-end augmentations mixed with those of a more utilitarian function. Piltovan or Zaunite, it didn't matter to the Glorious Evolved. These designations were secondary to their higher pursuit."

So in a city plagued by pollution, industrial accidents (ahem - the ones Viktor and Jayce worked together to prevent), and a hardcore group of followers who hid them flesh but took pride in their augmentations, is VIktor the villain? In Zaun, Viktor would be the progressive hero, the one who saves lives, and the one who brings others to greatness.

Plus, in Jayce's lore we see things from Piltover's point of view, but a couple hints are dropped about some of the darker secrets.

  • From Camille, "The creatures Elicia Ferros found, the Brackern, were not an unending resource, and Camille's family had to look for ways to augment the crystals they had accumulated."
  • From Jayce, "As Jayce studied in solitude, Clan Giopara's explorers discovered a raw, blue crystal deep within the Shuriman desert."
  • From 'Progress Day', "A hatch slides open in the workbench beside Tamara. A fretwork stand rises from below, holding a small, faceted crystal of sapphire blue that shimmers with its own internal light. A hextech crystal. The crystal is no bigger than her thumbnail, but it is the future. This is what could make the clans of Piltover rulers of the world if they so desired. Or, if not them, whoever can craft it more efficiently and without the years of work to produce a single item. This crystal has only a low level of power left in it, but it is still immeasurably powerful and outrageously valuable."
  • From Skarner, "Part of the ancient Brackern race, Skarner and his kin are known for their great wisdom and deep connection to the land, as their souls are fused with powerful life crystals which hold the living thoughts and memories of their ancestors. Each of these noble creatures fused with a single stone, which retained their consciousness long after their death."

Edit

  • A little more from Skarner, "Skarner heard distant echoes calling in his mind. The cries were faint, but rang clear over the land. These voices of the lost stones reached out to him in terror, imploring Skarner to reconnect them with their kind."
  • And from Jayce, "Something inside the crystal called to Jayce. No, more than that – it sang to him. He couldn’t explain why, but he knew the Shuriman gem still held mysteries yet to be discovered."

We are basically told that the root of hextech crafting is the life force beind Skarner's race - an ancient, wise race whose entire consciousness is inside the crystals that Piltover uses for their hextech. They are literally burning up the lifes of an intelligent, living soul to fuel their tech. Piltover doesnt seem so perfect now, do they?

SkyMagpie5 votes

While this is a very interesting and valid observation, you do forget that a lot if Vikor's fandom existed even before Jayce was released - that is how we got his lore changed in the first place. So perhaps there is still something you overlooked.

Placentas1 votes

What even was Viktors original lore before Jayce?

GreenLore1 votes

He was the inventor who wanted to help humanity with his machines. Together with a team he created Blitzcrank but a professor named stanwick Piddly claimed to be Blitzcranks creator(and even though Blitzcrank was aknowledged to be sentient and his own being,the trial ended with Piddly being aknowledged as Blitzcranks inventor),Piddly later stole some schematics of Viktor and also created Urgot with them.

Viktor fell into a depression about all this and turned himself into a cyborg(because then there'd be no way anyone could claim to be the inventor of these body-modifications),even going so far to modify his own brain to rid himself of his emotions. When he finished his project he was now obsessed with the idea of the glorious evolution,turning humans into machines.

ChaoticPinecone4 votes

It wasnt a change to Viktor's lore. It was Jayce.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Jayce (under this history tab, didnt know how to link to it)

Jayce's original lore had Viktor stealing his tech, which the community hated. Why would an inventor who considered himself to be the patron and pioneer of the future steal other people's inventions? The Viktor depicted in his own lore would just create a better version - he wouldnt take Jayce's inventions, not because it was stealing, but because Viktor himself would be convinced that he could make something better.

The writers changed Jayce's lore to Viktor not stealing Jayce's tech, but a Crystal that Jayce was trying to harness power from. Some people still hated it, but it brought a little more to Viktor's character while keeping his essence as a proud inventor.

Chromatic Eagle4 votes

People liked him because he was a misunderstood protagonist. Riot is trying to turn him into a tragic villain or a fallen hero type.

Hrd2H1t3 votes

Just like a Viktor main, I also relate to my main, Sion :)

i want to be dead

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well, aren't you a lucky guy? There is an entire region just for you :P

FunkyDan3 votes

While i don't play viktor (Yet) i like viktor because cyborg russian revolution.

mosaickle3 votes

I'm sure this is going to get a ton of downvotes for my laziness but...

...can you sum the post up for me?

SkyMagpie5 votes

Viktor fans are nerds

midnight oil241 votes

The Viktor fans loved Viktor so much because next to Jayce, who was the loudmouthed rich inventor who everyone loved, Viktor was the one who was more human, ironically enough. He was pushed aside despite his brilliant ideas because people felt they were too extreme. Now that Viktor is more than just a scientist who had credit stolen and was punished, people are mad because they can't project themselves onto him.

Ebonmaw Dragon3 votes

I always assumed because its the fanbase of Blitzcrank + Viktor + Urgot + Zaun in general

Lintu Puck2 votes

Falconshield - This Is War 2: Piltover vs Zaun (Original LoL song COLLAB) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNpS8QqD_I

Jayce part - 2:15 (especially the line at 2:45)

Viktor part - 3:45

just felt like sharing this old bit of fun

Mogarl2 votes

Going to have to disagree with you. The reason so many Viktor fans are angry about Jayce's lore is because they have been angry about it since he was first released. Then finally after the Great Retcon when Jayce's lore has gotten updated his changes insignificantly, while also retconning things people actually liked about Viktor.

If you were in love with Viktor's origin story you are now SOL. Jayce's lore that's applicable to Jayce and his relationship with Viktor hasn't really changed, but when that relationship developed has moved significantly. The entire first half of Viktor's lore is now false, and some people were really, really, into that, and used that to support a lot of their views on Vik.

I don't think anyone really cared or thought of Jayce vs. Viktor as bully vs. nerd. Mostly because in this situation Viktor stole Jayce's lunch money. You would be better off with a claim that since "nerds" are more likely to enjoy Vik's story they got angry about traits of a bully being placed on a character that they valued.

Personally I'm more open to what could come about from Viktor's lore, but I'm also not nearly as invested in the exact circumstances of his origin story.

Big Lincoln1 votes

I like viktor because robot men are cool

Shaco my BFF1 votes

Why people fanboy certain champions (most of the time): they're OP.

Arcyvilk3 votes

Look at the name of the boards you're in and think again.

Shaco my BFF1 votes

K. I didn't read his text anyways.

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