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"Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water" - Kurt Vonnegut

Darrosh Jewfist··52 votes·9,642 views

I noticed that ever since the retcon, the League of Legends has been focused very heavily on the 'legends' - as in beings of immense power and mythological aspects that some are regarded as actual gods/demons/and LEGENDS themselves.

That's cool.

But it also makes it very difficult to ascertain character motivations, whether they're achievable or not, and whether we - as the players and audience - care enough to even relate or support/denounce.

Let's look at a few of the recent examples of character motivation:

Bard - When you go on record saying that you cannot possible understand this guy's thought process because his thinking is so far beyond that of humans then it's pointless to try to understand him - much less relate to him. Braum - Seems like a nice guy... but uh... he wants to protect Poros? Kalista - SHE WANTS VENGEANCE. I can dig that. But -uh- vengeance for what? Oh, she's an aglamation of countless spirits with their own personal vendettas? Guess she's just mad all the time... Gnar - cute little Freljord yordle who wakes up. What the hell does he want? Food? Okay sure... that's it? Boring. RekSai - maybe Rek'Sai gets a pass because she's a beast but I don't really feel any sympathy for a animal who's territorial - is she protecting her young? Her young who, far from being defenseless, are being hunted to participate in gladiatorial duels? I'm not saying that non-speaking beasts can't convey a lot of sympathy and emotion (POKEMON DOES IT!) but the way it was approached here makes it hard to feel any sort of relation to Rek'Sai other than 'wuuuagh! I'm big and bad!' Ekko - His friend dies and somehow he has a lot of Zaun pride? I'm not really WHAT his motivation is other than to protect his friend's grave - which is a relatively weak motivation. Does he want to rid the world of bad people? Spread Zaun ideological to the four corners of Runeterra? Hell if I know. I don't know the guy and he seems he could be pretty relatable. TahmKench - Tahm is actually the most clear in his motivation: he wants to eat. I can get behind that. Apparently he's getting more lore incoming with the Bilgewater update so we'll see if this motivation evolves into something more than making the best out of a buffet ticket.

You know, when the Narrative's former lead says this:

"Plot is highly overrated. Users don't remember plot; what they do remember is they remember characters. Focus on the things that they will retain, that are going to be most important to them in the long-run. Focus on character." - Tom Abernathy.

There's an expectations that even if the story you might want to tell is bland/or hell, in this case UTTERLY NONEXISTENT - then at the very least the character motivations should be fleshed out right? That these characters aren't defined by their appearances or gimmicks or tropes but rather the struggles they carry, the emotion that can be easily related to the viewer in a compelling fashion?

53 Comments

RiotBioluminescence35 votes

I actually found Tahm Kench to be an interesting window into the motivations of many of the other champions - he is, after all, looking to trade for their deepest desires. So we got a little more information in some of his taunts etc. I do think that Kalista is one of the worst sufferers of the lack of long form lore. It's a cool cinematic and all, but until we can root around a bit more in her history, she's coming across rather one note. Maybe there's not much more there - and she's supposed to be a force of nature rather than a character, but I hope we find out more.

Also, I'm not sure why quoting the former lead will help much, moving forward. We've got Jaredan now, and they're different people with different opinions and guiding philosophies. I'd not like to be held accountable for every word of my predecessor - even if, in a business setting, that seems a reasonable bar to be held to. I'd personally we go for the more humanized approach, rather than monolithic, lock-step, corporate script-following.

(Also, Tom's quote is probably well intention-ed but really badly put. I suspect it was to point out that characters like Sherlock Holmes or Iron Man can be in a multitude of stories and plots - but it is the characters that we come back to read about, time and time again. In my opinion - plot IS important, as long as it is there to serve character. Plot comes from characters, and how they react to the situation they are in.)

kile1475 votes

That's kind of the issue with the current lore though isn't it? We don't have plot because it requires two very important aspects, characters and something for them to interact with. Right now we have a lot of characters, some not as fleshed out as others but that's a WIP I understand, but we have no interaction, no environment to place them within and thus we can't have a plot because even the most interesting characters (TahmKench) have no plot if they exist within a void. Hopefully the Bildgewater event changes that then we'll be a step in the right direction. But yeah Tahm is definitely a good sign overall just because a demon offering "bargains" is hardly unique, but serves as a great way to see into the motivations of other characters while also creating conflict.

Duke Anax1 votes

While the concept of Demon offering Bargain is an old one, I haven't seen much that is quite like Tahm specifically.

kile1471 votes

Offering people's desires for a seemingly innocuous price that later turns out to be horrible/rigged? Just a few examples I can think of in modern media are things like the demons in the CW show Supernatural, or Ursula the Sea Witch in Disney's The Little Mermaid. None of this is me saying that I don't like his character, I do, as his whole "eating everything you love" schtick is cool and fits his looks, but like all of League's other champions he fits a pretty clear archetype and doesn't deviate from it very much (which is good because following archetypes is a good way to let people assume aspects of their personality that aren't explicitly stated).

Melancholy Exile2 votes

{quoted}

I do think that Kalista is one of the worst sufferers of the lack of long form lore. It's a cool cinematic and all, but until we can root around a bit more in her history, she's coming across rather one note. Maybe there's not much more there - and she's supposed to be a force of nature rather than a character, but I hope we find out more.

Personally I would say that the Kalista problem is that "The Spear of Vengeance" is essentially a single-minded creature whose role as traitor's bane is her sole reason for being and all she really cares about. You can certainly use her in stories and build upon her as a legend, but until you move beyond that aspect of her and delve into the past to explore her former life and place in the fall of the Isles you really haven't got a whole lot to go on. At present she's an interesting piece of the world but not terribly interesting in her own right.

When a character is introduced with the same story in three different mediums (bio, short story and cinematic) it really gives the impression that there isn't much more to say about them than "Kalista is a vengeful spirit who can be summoned to hunt traitors at the cost of your soul," and that was profoundly disappointing after so much of the discussion before her release had revolved around her past in the Isles. She really needs a chapter two to make her more than just a force of nature, particularly considering just how much scope there is to tell a very interesting story with her and the other denizens of the Shadow Isles.

Doctor Ivellius2 votes

Even better, the short story and the video show two different ways of summoning her--one through a ritual, one through just asking for vengeance as your life expires. It's not a plot hole, per se, but it seems odd that the woman in the story would have to go through so much trouble if you can kinda just ask Kalista to help you out when you have no other recourse.

Darrosh Jewfist2 votes

We see the same issues with Ekko's trailer and his comic. The comic suggests you can reverse time and suffer no ill side effects (otherwise Ekko would exhaust himself after his dozens upon dozens of tries) while the video (which presumably occurred AFTER the comic) shows Ekko suffering injury.

So why would Ekko downgrade his Z-drive so it would give him lasting effects from previous timelines instead of one where it doesn't?

Leetri1 votes

If you remember, the Z-Drive was destroyed at the end of the comic so he had to repair it. It's entirely possible the sustained injuries are a side effect of the Z-Drive not working properly any longer.

GreenLore1 votes

If you look at the video the "side effects" actually come from the wounds that he got.

Getting hit in the rib-cage causes his ribs to still hurt even after he went back in time. Getting his arm crushed caused his arm to still hurt even after he went back in time.

This is actually pretty neatly represented ingame,where ekko only heals a percent of the damage that he took.So some damage remains.(I think it was confirmed to be a form of phantom pain,the actual damage gets reversed,but the pain still remains).

He was always fine when he went back into time in the comic,because he was never injured in the first place.

HowPlayGAEM12 votes

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Darrosh Jewfist5 votes

This is my problem with your (Riot's) approach to lore. You said text is boring and sucks so you want to deliver the lore and story in other ways, but blowing assloads of money on videos IS NOT the answer. They're nice, but the amount of details and fluff they can offer is limited.

Scumbag Narrative: Hates text Pumps out 10 minutes of Nasus narration

Onegarion1 votes

While yes there are some cinematics like kalista's that are just for show, but then you look to the azir style where if fleshed a much bigger picture for him. There are 2 sides to this coin

Doctor Ivellius1 votes

Love that you post in this area, Bio.

Having said that, the Tahm interactions are non-canon, so we can't learn anything about the actual characters in League of Legends, just some imagined representation of them that fights on the Fields of War.

air tiger1 votes

{quoted}

I actually found Tahm Kench to be an interesting window into the motivations of many of the other champions - he is, after all, looking to trade for their deepest desires. So we got a little more information in some of his taunts etc. I do think that Kalista is one of the worst sufferers of the lack of long form lore. It's a cool cinematic and all, but until we can root around a bit more in her history, she's coming across rather one note. Maybe there's not much more there - and she's supposed to be a force of nature rather than a character, but I hope we find out more.

Also, I'm not sure why quoting the former lead will help much, moving forward. We've got Jaredan now, and they're different people with different opinions and guiding philosophies. I'd not like to be held accountable for every word of my predecessor - even if, in a business setting, that seems a reasonable bar to be held to. I'd personally we go for the more humanized approach, rather than monolithic, lock-step, corporate script-following.

(Also, Tom's quote is probably well intention-ed but really badly put. I suspect it was to point out that characters like Sherlock Holmes or Iron Man can be in a multitude of stories and plots - but it is the characters that we come back to read about, time and time again. In my opinion - plot IS important, as long as it is there to serve character. Plot comes from characters, and how they react to the situation they are in.)

Thanks for your aptly worded input :)

Darrosh Jewfist7 votes

I actually found Tahm Kench to be an interesting window into the motivations of many of the other champions - he is, after all, looking to trade for their deepest desires.

That's entirely assuming it's even canon considering the divorce between gameplay and lore. It's really more of easter egg nods than anything - did we really we learn anything new from Tahm's comments? Most of it is just affirming their tropes or teasing things we already sort of figured (Garen-Kat ship, Draven-Darius rivalry).

Also, I'm not sure why quoting the former lead will help much, moving forward. We've got Jaredan now, and they're different people with different opinions and guiding philosophies. I'd not like to be held accountable for every word of my predecessor - even if, in a business setting, that seems a reasonable bar to be held to. I'd personally we go for the more humanized approach, rather than monolithic, lock-step, corporate script-following.

Because he was in charge of narrative while those champions were presumably in development and played a role in their narrative design. He was also lead of the narrative department - meaning someone or a group of someones decided that this man and his vision he has set forth was best to achieve the vision they wanted out of the game.

And considering Jaerdan is his successor and Jaerdan has not made any real indication of his philosophical difference in approaches to his predecessor (other than 'trust us' and 'soon') then it's easier to assume Jaerdan is going for more of the same.

Especially considering there hasn't been any notable changes in narrative delivery or quality since Tom's departure.

Sneak Dog3 votes

Also, I'm not sure why quoting the former lead will help much, moving forward. We've got Jaredan now, and they're different people with different opinions and guiding philosophies.

They are? I've no idea of what Jaredans philosophies are.

NorthernDruid1 votes

Y'know, interpreting the quote that way actually has it make sense.

Still a really bad way to put it, ut at least if that (or something similar) was the thought process behind it it actually makes sense.

HowPlayGAEM16 votes

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GreenLore2 votes

The thing is that "OMG Mystery" was everything they ever wrote about Fiddle,Shaco and Eve.

But with champs like Gnar,Kalista and rek'sai it is appearant that they are actually trying to keep some mysteries for later,they at least have answers to those mysteries,they just aren't telling us.

DrCyanide9 votes

And how long do you think this turn around process on answering mysteries will take? A year? Two? Until the champion gets reworked?

Narasimha9 votes

I think you missed the entire point of Tom Abernathy's quote. The point isn't about motive or purpose. It's a lot simple. It's simply how easy is a character to recognize and identify, how unique they are compared to other champions. If you think of a character, it should be pretty easy to see what makes them... well, them. In this respect, they've done a pretty good job.

Bard - Magical dude who travels through time and space to POSSIBLY help others.

Braum - Super nice guy that just wants to help everyone. But mostly poros.

Kalista - Vengeance and retribution. It's not ideal, but its her way of helping.

Gnar - Hyperactive yordle child with a temper. Plus a really adorable way of speaking.

RekSai - A beast who does beasty things for beasty reasons. Because she's a beast.

Ekko - The (human) protector of Zaun. He just wants to keep his patch of the world safe.

TahmKench - He just wants to help people out. And then eat everything and everyone they hold dear.

Embertine1 votes

plus one for that tahm one! lol

Darrosh Jewfist5 votes

Characters aren't defined by their appearances or powers. Hell, that's the worst thing to define a character by. Characters defined by their moral, intellectual, and emotional characteristics.

The characteristics you listed shows those properties are pretty shallow.

You could say the cast of the Star Wars prequels were pretty good characters. Darth Maul had that look - Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon looked like Jedis... but they were shit characters.

They had no struggle, no emotion - even if they did sing to the tropes they were supposed to represent.

It makes for a boring story and an even more boring universe.

Narasimha1 votes

But see, theres the key difference. A character has all those characteristics in a story. Let me repeat, in a STORY. And when you get right down to it, League is never going to have a full fledged story. It has some beginnings, but there isn't going to be any developments, and really no endings. It's not a tale. How can they struggle, overcome, grow, when theres no way for that to happen? When theres no way for that to even be represented in the game? So for what we have to work with, this is what we have. Characters defined by what they are and what they do.

Darrosh Jewfist7 votes

Left 4 Dead is a fantastic example of a well built universe. It has standout characters, memorable interactions, and holy-by-the-grace-of-God decent worldbuilding...

...for a First Person SHOOTER.

I admit - League doesn't need a grand story but it needs characters and it needs conflict. It needs characters and it needs those characters to struggle.

The plot for L4D is simple: survive zombies and get to the safe zone.

Yet in this very simple struggle, a conflict you could honestly copy-pasta over any environment - they managed to create a set of four distinct characters. How do they do this?

  • They have characters interact with each other, characters speak to each other when they reload, heal each other
  • Characters also speak when they spot something - they curse when they get hurt - they tell others of coming dangers when seen or helpful items (like pipebombs or med kits) when around them
  • They have characters engage in banter

AND ALL OF THIS OCCURS WITH ALMOST NO PLAYER INPUT.

But here with Narrative, we're required almost always to have to taunt a very specific enemy champion to get essentially an easter egg interactions. These interactions, if they're going to be a primary source of tidbit info, shouldn't be easter eggs. They should be automatic and in place.

Another fantastic example of supplementary lore in an arena-game is another by Valve; Team Fortress 2.

Again, a set of well-defined characters who archetypes don't bleed into each other with the same sort of interactions, taunts, and etc - almost all of which are automatic and comes out just by playing the game.

The Meet-The series is great. We don't need to be told the Pyro is a sadistic pyromaniac - we are SHOWN it with balloonicorns and all.

And the Expiration Date movie - which is a throwaway story of absolutely not grand-plot value- reveals so much about the characters and their interactions with each other and the world they live in.

It's entire possible to do.

This Narrative team just isn't doing it.

Leetri1 votes

Remember that you're comparing a game with 4 characters in it to a game with 126 characters. Also, you're kinda talking against the other people who are demanding lore. They don't want videos of champions interacting with the world, they want written lore that says "this is how it is". At least that's what their arguments make it seems like. For example Ekko's comic tells a ton about how he is as a person, but people just choose to ignore it.

Darrosh Jewfist3 votes

Remember that you're comparing a game with 4 characters in it to a game with 126 characters.

These people can't even release a Shurima event without destroying Skarner. What was even the POINT of that?

Look at Touhou. There's literally an army of girls in that game yet each has their conflict, struggles, and clearly defined character motivations/flaws on top of each one.

Also, you're kinda talking against the other people who are demanding lore. They don't want videos of champions interacting with the world, they want written lore that says "this is how it is". At least that's what their arguments make it seems like.

People want to know more about Runeterra. They want to know more about these characters beyond typical trope-fest symptoms. They want to know what their conflicts, struggles, flaws, and shining bits of personality are. They want to know what kind of city they live in - what people do there - what's in there - what's to see - and what magic/items/tech/what have you goes on and about.

The current Narrative delivers this 'lore' extremely superficially and only at the surface level.

Good God, we don't even have a MAP.

I understand Narrative has priorities. They want to develop the world and characters. But they're doing both poorly.

Doctor Dyment8 votes

Well, I believe Gnar wants only to go back home to his family, Braum wants to protect the Freljord as much as he can, Bard exists to protect humanity (and many other realms) from objects of ultimate power that could tilt the balance of the universe(s), and Rek'Sai is a mindless beast who only wishes to do what animals do. Eat, drink, kill, and survive. The others? I couldn't tell you a damn thing about.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Ekko is the Darius of Zaun, he wants to fix the problems with it and get it back to its ideals. Kalista is the dominant soul in her amalgamation and she wishes to get her own vengeance for the betrayal that turned the Shadow Isles into what they are now.

Don't forget that Rek'Sai is Queen, she likely has the interests of her species/hive/family to look after.

GreenLore5 votes

Overall they said that since they have now so many champions,it is ok to explore some different approaches than "Champ X wants Y",which in itself can be rather problematic since that means the champs story basically ends once they get Y.

Bard Gnar Kalista RekSai all don't think on a human level(ok we can't be sure in Gnars case since he is only a child and doesn't speak our language),which makes it interesting in itself to try to understand them,at least for some people.If thats not interesting for you,then thats ok,there are over 100 other characters who are more human like and easier to understand in their thought process.

Braum & Ekko on the other hand aren't champs who try to get something specific,they both want to protect others(in braums he seems to wander the earth to help others,ekko wants to protect zaun and his friends,its not like ajuna was his only friend).

TahmKench doesn't have a specific goal,but he generally wants others to strike a deal with him,so that he can make them suffer and eat everything thats dear to them. He is very similar to Thresh &Aatrox in that regard,who both don't have a specific goal,but we know what motivates them and what they generally want.

rinsujo2 votes

which in itself can be rather problematic since that means the champs story basically ends once they get Y.

See, while I do agree with the rest of your post, I don't agree with this. (Which is why I don't agree with Riot's decisions regarding Retcon, etc.) Character development! All of the other champs you mentioned, even if we don't understand them, want something. Once they acquire it, a good author isn't going to say "And now they have the McGuffin, and everyone lived happily ever after the end." That's a children's bedtime story ending, not literature. A good author is going to explore the consequences of acquiring the McGuffin, why it isn't what they thought it was, or why it doesn't solve their problems, or why it's everything they ever wanted but now sitting on their ass at work browsing boards all the time isn't actually fulfilling in any way shape or form. (Goddamn I'm bored today.) The story ends when the author ends it. Until then, there will always be conflict. Hell, even after the story ends there will be conflict, that's where sequels came from. But saying the story ends when they get what they want is just laziness on the author's part. Case in point - Old Trundle. He was at the league, he had decided he wasn't going to help his people anymore, he was in it for him. End of story, right? Wrong. He's still at the institute. Why? He's happy, isn't he? Fulfilled, smacking things with a club, fighting 'round the world? Ok. So he'll never have an existential crisis? Never decide he wants to try Poro steak? Never do anything ever again, even at the speed of Riot Lore? He'll never meet Lissandra at the League and decide "Hey, maybe here's someone who can sympathize, maybe I'll talk to her, move to the freljord on my own instead of suddenly having been there all along?" Authors have creative freedom, with only two limits - what they can justify without breaking suspension of disbelief, and what they can express through language. Saying "it was too hard." is a crock.

GreenLore2 votes

Yeah,there are ways to create new and different conflicts,but they can be hard to pull off,if the character has been defined by this one conflict for years.

Not to mention that some things the champions seek would remove an essential part of their characters(or other characters if they want to kill them). I mean what if ahri finally becomes human?It would be confusing if suddenly theres a hole bunch of stories about human ahri. What about Xerath once he is free?That would shake up too many things to keep that change. What if Malzahar manages to end the world by leading the void into runeterra?Thats pretty much game over for 90% of all champions.

I think some goals are too much of an endgame to be ever archieved without being the final chapter for a character(in some cases it is rather unlikely that they'll ever achieve their goal at all).

Overall I agree that their stories don't have to end once they achieve their goal,but their primary story arc definetly ends there(unless there is some sort of problem once they aquire said mcguffin),which requires setting up a completely new story,so it is more difficult to work with a story like that in the long run.

Legacy of Xion4 votes

Correction.

Bard - IoW 2.0 with omnipotence and super powerful abilities to change rhe course of history to avoid calamity, instead of being a fallible human/yordle agency that avoided rune wars and major wars, as well as avoiding anything to spark another war through grandstanding and treaties.

Xulsigae2 votes

Bard is a good example of a character being too above our understanding to be a good character. In many stories with Gods and such, the best ones are those with human characteristics. The gods in pantheons (Greek, Roman, Warhammer 40K, Japan, The Sillmarillion etc) tend to be reflections of human (and others) feelings and concerns. They have their own dramas and such. Beings like Bard and (from a purely narrative perspective without any religious commentary) the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God are boring because we can't understand them. They work in mysterious ways and are aloof from motives and therefore do whatever the author wants without reference to rules.

As an example of how to do it better: In the comics Sandman and Lucifer (two my favourites) the God and Devil (and Death and lord of dreams) of the DC universe were anthropomorphized and given desires, conflicts and limitations on their powers. This made them far more interesting than 'God is good and such, the Devil is bad and such.' They had arcs and changed and could communicate in means we could understand (not just in lovely sounding notes). Even though it wasn't Biblically accurate, they were much better as members of a story than their staid versions of before. Even within the Abrahamic texts (again, from a pure story perspective) people like Moses, Jesus and Mohammed are far more interesting to read about because we can identify with them better than a distant and mysterious deity. Phew. Sorry about the wall of text.

Legacy of Xion2 votes

You. I like you.

Bard I a horrible character lorewise, as he is too mysterious and cosmic. Honestly, he is uninteresting. Oh he stopped this artifact from being used? Okay...so?

Oh, he prevented calamity? Okay cool. When is Kayle gonna bang Ahri?

I have 0 reason to care for Bard because of the fact he's too far above our understanding...

Personally...I'm gonna head cannon he's secretly evil and Ao Shin is destined to arise to defeat him - which Spirit Guard Udyr is needing to prevent, as an early release of Ao Shin could wreck Runeterra.

Embertine3 votes

I want to know why you only focused on the new champions and not any of the older ones? What's with that?

What about Shyvana ? Why would she dedicate her entire life to serve in a military in a land she knows hardly anything about, simply because the prince helped her get revenge for her father? Why wouldn't she simply thank him and part ways? Why risk living a life where everyone around her fears her and thinks her a monster?

Or how about the many other champions in league? What about them? It seems like you only care about the recent additions to league.

Darrosh Jewfist5 votes

I focused mainly on the recent champions in League mainly because obviously their design philosophy for champs and their narrative goals have changed a lot in the past few years.

When we first started we had the sheer ridiculousness of certain champs: alpha-Ez, old Sion, and hell - Corki still uses the ROFLcoptor.

Slowly, they started introducing champs that were a more serious. But at the same time, they still supplemented those champs with decent-length bios, sometimes judgements and random character AMAs.

Then we get Tommy Gnox and his goddamn retcon.

And if you're going to proclaim a retcon, and you are on record saying this:

"Plot is highly overrated. Users don't remember plot; what they do remember is they remember characters. Focus on the things that they will retain, that are going to be most important to them in the long-run. Focus on character." - Tom Abernathy.

And you're lead in the Narrative department... well, then those sort of things gotta reflect during things that should have occurred under his leadership. And they haven't. Which means he was just speaking out of his arse.

Embertine1 votes

I can't argue with you there. I agree that there needs to be some kind of motivation in the champions. However until the lore event has been released, we still do not know if the champions are fighting in something like the league together, or are simply there for us to play while having their own stories off on the side.

Because Riot has felt the need to keep the new lore a secret until release, we simply cannot know anything regarding the champions motivations until the time that It is released.

I'll tell you this though. On the day the new lore is finally released, hardly anyone will be in game as everyone will be devouring every single syllable of the new lore. We all want to know everything we can about our favorite champions, and I'm sure that the forums are going to explode with the number of new posts regarding the lore after it is finally released.

firevalkyrie1 votes

If I remember correctly, the reason she sticks with Jarvan is because he's one of the few people that doesn't treat her like a freak. All her life she's been an outcast because of her heritage and rage, but he comes along and treats her like he would another human being.

SchaakaKon3 votes

I agree, these characters dont seem to exist in Runeterra :/

Krizalid3 votes

Later Kalista bio additions on PBE: ...And most importantly, Kalista really wants a glass of water.

Rito Staff2 votes

You don't understand Bard basically. They said "(...)you cannot possible understand this guy's thought process because his thinking is so far beyond that of humans(...)" because it gives him the outworldly feel he needs. A mytical being, who's motivation goes beyond human drive. He doesn't fight for any particular side.

He sees an object of mass destruction and removes it.

Relatable to my life? No. But completely alien to human experience? LOL no. You've got plenty of real world personas who relate to Bard in their doings.

warpenguin5552 votes

Bram is in because hes like a folk hero. purpose... well you got me there

Lowvyr2 votes

Wasn't Kalista a leader of some tribe in the Shadow Isles and she got betrayed? So her body is Kalista but her conscience is an agglomeration of spirits that have been betrayed and are in need of vengeance? I thought she was actually really well thought out and was a really cool idea until her kit came into play, and then she just became this whore jumping around the battlefield dodging every skill shot and all cc you throw at her infinitely kiting melees that need to get to her to lock her down.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

I'll disagree and/or agree with some of these!

Bard - Pretty clear motivation. He is in charge of cosmic balance...but what does cosmic balance entail? See, I think that's where things fell apart. We saw Bard grab an orb and put it on the mountain but nothing else. The best thing one could do with bard's character is place him in morally ambiguous situations and show that what he's doing is for the good of all, NOT the good or perhaps even morally right thing.

Braum - Totally agree. Although he always struck me as a larger-than-life hero in fairy tales who's motivation is "Hey I'm the hero so I gotta do the right thing"

Kalista - "We are legion. We are vengeance". To be honest I feel Kalista works better as a concept/god-level force than an actual character. She's vengeance incarnate. You can't really put a face to it. (All the more reason to delete this bitch.)

Gnar - Also agree! He's a fish out of water but he has no clear motivation. Find a way home? Adapt to modern times? Needs emphasis.

RekSai - Think you kinda nailed the concept. She's a monster. Her goals are eat/hunt/mate/kill. I find her more like a shark: You don't usually feel sympathy for sharks, you see them as awe-inspiring and terror.

Ekko - Here is where I'ma go 100% against you, because I feel Ekko has a total motive and the one you transcribed to him doesn't do justice. Simply put, Ekko wants to be proud of Zaun. He wants his city to be a shining beacon of technology and progress like Piltover is. The problem is that Piltover looks down on him so much (Giving him ire) while Zaun itself is corrupt and a mess. The culmination on why Ekko has no clear goal on what to do is that he's young. He's 14-18 and has no clue how to make Zaun better. He lashes out at others because he doesn't know what to do.

Furthermore, Ekko's unclear path where to go frustrates him. He sees his friend die...what now? All he can do is enact revenge. Nothing gets done and Ekko feels helpless because he's forced to go back, fix his invention and try to find a place to go from there. At his core, Ekko is the man who wants to do good but does not know where to go. Whether he'll fall to the wayside and side with the wrong crowd (Jinx) or if he'll find a rightous path where he can make Zaun the shining utopia he KNOWS it can be is where the character can evolve. The groundwork is there, we just need to see where it'll go.

Narog2 votes

MAny of the resent champions are one dimensional have one emotion and some dont have any personality , they look like NPCs that you shoot or like a Seller .

NorthernDruid2 votes

I feel like the biggest problem with the new upcoming game-unrelated stories, is that there's nothing to be motivated for in the setting.

If there even is a setting.

Not even for the characters but for the players. There's no setting to be motivated for, no continous story, nothing to drive a narrative forward on the continental scale that they need to replace (should've replaced ASAP back when they were announcing the upcoming replacement which is still nowhere to be seen).

So Ekko lost his friend, boo hoo, that story seemed interesting while all we had to go on was the video but then all the interesting bits got disproven and Ekko was revealed to be a really cool character with no plot, and so no motivation to follow him.

Bard... is... cool. A really great character wasted on a seting which isn't centered around him and with no ongoing narrative to interact with.

Kalista at least has hints as to her backstory and deep setting ties. It would be great if there was anything more than that but at least she's got ties to something and it's clear that even though she's this multisouled creature thing spirit, she has a moral of some kind, she has sentience, identity and some form of agenda, even if that agenda is on hold until something relevant happens.

Rek'Sai is uninteresting in much the same way Bard is because she's just... not someone you can get any amount of insight into. She's a land shark, and that's it. And I hope they drag their feet a loooong time before morphing Skarner into the same kind of creature. She's a non-character, as far as I can tell, and non-characters don't make for good stories.

As for Tahm... I like Tahm, he's got a story, even if it's just the one. You can tell what he's about and how he goes about it. He's got a personality, an agenda (even if we have no clear indication to what), and he has a story. Not just the one story they told about him. He's got a story because he's a predator, and not just a random land shark who eats desert people, he's a hunter, a social hunter, and you don't really see that kind of character a lot. You can really see him offer up a bargain to another Champion and try and trick them into it. Just think about Ezreal for instance, Ezreal is fine with using what is essentially a cursed item as long as the power is worth the tradeoff of being randomly enlisted to fight on the Fields of Justice, imagine what Two-coats can bargain out of him.

There's plenty of those hidden depths Tahm can dig out of other champions, because desires, greed and gluttony is something very basic that you rarely find anyone without.

And I think that's really what makes a great character. It's not just about being an awesome concept, it's not about being so good you can survive without a strong plot, it's about not needing a plot because what you bring out in contact with other characters is bound to be a decent plot in itself. And when two characters meet who both bring out a decent plot in each other, you've got a good plot. And then, when those characters synch up well in what they bring out of each other, you've got a great plot. And when you also have that backed up a by a compelling story around it all, a setting if you will, then you've got a great story.

But no matter how cool the setting, no matter how cool the characters, it's not a worthwhile story if the characters never meet and interact, if the world doesn't move the characters and the characters doesn't move the world, then it's not a story, it's a pretty picture. And pictures can be pretty, and they can even be used to tell stories, but they aren't stories in and of themselves.

If Riot wants to really tell stories, they need to show us what happens when all these charcters interact. And they need to make room for that interaction, 'cause they removed the driving factor in making interactions happen in their setting, and then left it there.

Centuros1 votes

Ekko wants to reform Zaun, get rid of the Bad Things that happen there. He... just isn't quite sure how yet, since he's only a kid. He probably thinks that beating in the faces of the Bad Guys might help.

Teemoto1 votes

rammus: ok

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