What exactly is there to look forward to in League's narrative, lore, or story?

Darrosh Jewfist·4/17/2016, 3:43:18 AM·111 votes·20,415 views

It really seems like Riot deliberately killed off its own lore. Why? I don't know.

It started with the Retcon 1.5 years ago. Institute gone. Summoners gone. Old Runeterra map invalidated. The lead from the infamous devblog post has since left. Since then we've gotten sporadic updates with variable amounts of influence. Bilgewater, Shurima, Targon, Shadow Isles... but it suffers from the same problem of being directly tied to Champ releases/updates. Because of this, it's hard to look forward to something if you have no idea when or if it'll come. There's no overarching plan to see. There's no Journal of Justice to wait for, there's no Meet The series to hype about... just waiting. And waiting.

Even goddamn FFXV got a release date after ten years. Last Guardian is supposedly coming out this year. Persona 5 is within reach.

But narrative? There's no promise of anything down the line. What exactly is there to be excited about?

And this is how the League Lore got killed off.

It's been 1.5 years. A full year and a half since September 2014 when the narrative head stepped up and essentially said 'we can do better'.

They haven't.

Nocturne's lore still mention Summoners and the League, both retconned. Lee Sin has the same. You've got to be kidding me that after 1.5 years you can't update some text that render several champions inconsistent and incompatible with your universe?

This is BASIC stuff. I'm not asking for miracles. I'm literally asking you what is the new background of these champs since you retconned their old ones literally years ago?

Oh wait. Let me guess. Either you can't talk about it because SPOILERS! or it's being saved for some event?

And these goddamn events... all these events that continue to retcon and, worst of all, never follow-up. The Freljord Event was** THREE** years ago and no follow-up has been done on this War of Three Sisters. What's the point of starting these narrative story lines if they never go any where?

Not to mention the vague as hell ruling that anything that doesn't contradict the new lore is still canon.

We still have questions like...

  • If the Noxian invasion of Ionia is still canon, why? The old reason was because Noxus invaded since Ionia didn't join the league. So what's the cause now?
  • If the Rune Wars are still canon and Rune Magic can destroy the world, why haven't Noxus and Demacia done so? Bard? So is he like IoW-lite?
  • Is Noxus still campaigning in Freljord? There's no League to stop its Barbarian Pacification Campaigns.

Then there's the whole map issue. We still don't have a map.

  • Where is Bilgewater and the Shadow Isles?
  • What's in the center of the Valoran continent?
  • Where are all these places that get mentioned like the capital city of Shurima or the fortress of Andras?

The more I look at Riot and how they handle League, their sole game, the more I'm disgusted. But here, in a realm where it's really a matter of generating text based content and updating old texts... they've dropped the ball so hard.

It's like it's amateur hour.

Some suggestions I think would be massively beneficial to retaining, maintaining, and GENERATING lore interest:

  • 1.** Some kind of weekly/monthly serial. **This can be a comic, a short story, a quick AMA video on gibberish lore questions drawn with dry-erase art... something CONSISTENT that we, as a fanbase, can look forward to. Something we can consume. This whole month long droughts between updates "most of which are just retcons" is killer to interest.
    1. A map. A map is incredibly valuable. It tells us where things are. It gives us an idea of what the culture is like and what kind of people live there. It gives us something to anchor our imaginations towards.
    1. More focus on the culture. What's the point of this universe if we only focus on the heroes or gods or legends of this universe. Things like Rek'Sai's video were fascinating because we got to see something beyond the grim dark world. Ekko's 'Seconds' videos was neat in this regard on attitudes towards death. The point and click background splash for Bilgewater event is cool too. We need more of these things. Otherwise, it's going to be hard to anchor our interest through godlike beings such as Kindred AurelionSol Bard Kalista .
  1. **More variety in personalities from champions. **Tristana is basically a one-note girl. What other sides is she? Is all she is some kind of big-gun strapped to a short-girl military trope? She has no depth.
  2. **Inject more humor. ** You'll get way more interest from Champion Comedy Hour than another Amumu music video. Funny stuff is funny. People love to share funny stuff. It shows up on facebook feeds and gets shown again and again. People HATE things like Nasus narration. Who goes back and look at the Shurima videos? Only the most die hard. If you want to generate interest you have to go beyond the grimdark note that's been striking.
  3. **Interact with the community. **Silence does not breed a positive outlook. There has to be more than just jumping into conversations where people are riding your metaphorical dicks over splashart or some new event. The boards shouldn't be your safe space or echo chamber or feel-good/upvote machine. It's supposed to be an engine of communication. That's not really happening here... at all.

tl:dr - there's nothing to look forward to in League's narrative, lore, or story.

193 Comments

RiotBioluminescence4/17/2016, 4:40:28 PM30 votes

######(Standard Bioluminescence disclaimer - I am not on the Narrative team, I do not know what is coming up, I am simply a Rioter from a very different department who is super interested in the lore.)

I am looking forwards to finding out if there's something serious going down near the Zaun/Piltover region - what with TF and Graves headed there, and now apparently Jhin going in that direction too, possibly trailing his would-be captors behind him.

Burning Tides: Act 3, Part 4

“You’re telling me you can live without your gun?” he asks.

“Maybe not,” I say. “But I know a really good gunsmith in Piltover.”

“Piltover...” he says, lost in thought.

“Lot of money flowing through there right now,” I say.

T.F. figures hard for a moment.

Jhin Color Text, Part 4

From the jetty, Jhin looked back to the foreign ship. The tide had come in, and the ship would be leaving in a few moments. He would have to return soon if he was going to perform in Zaun next month. Risk on top of risk.

Which was then elaborated on a little by WAAARGHbobo in the impromptu Story Q&A from a question from Igotlazy:

{quoted}

  1. Jhin is on his way to Zaun? Oh lordy are we going to see some Jhin vs Ekko or Jhin vs Viktor shenanigans?

{quoted}

  1. Maybe, (only in passing) but he will be more a problem for VI, Cait and someone who can't be named at this time.

And the color text implies that he wants Zed and Shen to chase him:

The work was inescapable. Together or apart, Zed and Shen would chase the clues he had left. They would follow them back to the Blossom Festival. Back to Jyom Pass. And when they became desperate, then they would have to work together again.

If that goes down, then there's the chance for...

  • TwistedFate Twisted Fate
  • Graves Graves
  • Jhin Jhin
  • Vi Vi
  • Caitlyn Caitlyn
  • Zed Zed
  • Akali Akali (maybe)
  • Shen Shen
  • Ekko Ekko (maybe)
  • Viktor Viktor (maybe)
  • "someone who can't be named at this time"

... all to interact and overlap in some way! Of course, that's a whole lot of champs - so I'm keeping my expectations a bit lower than a huge 11 character rumble going down in one or the other locations.

Remember though, that I have no insider knowledge on this one, so my speculation is fueled solely by the same information you guys have.


Then, I'm interested to hear more about Lucian heading towards the Shadow Isles, looking for Senna. I think that one is less likely to get attention in the near future, but I do like Lucian, Senna, and I'm a sucker for suicide missions.

Shadow and Fortune, Chapter 4, Part 7

People were already moving down on the docks, repairing ships and rebuilding their homes. Bilgewater never stopped, even in the aftermath of the Harrowing. He scanned the forest of swaying masts, looking for a ship that wasn’t too badly damaged. Perhaps one desperate captain could be persuaded to take him where he needed to go.

“I am coming, my light,” he said. “And I will free you.”

The Last Ballad4/17/2016, 10:22:59 AM21 votes

Your original question and the following triad do not connect. The original question asks where the story is going, the triad underneath can be shortened up to 1. The lore team is too slow. 2. points to support #1, and 3. complaints about old champions having flat characters(they are working on that. Slowly, but they are. Look at Taric!)

The direction of the story has many different paths it could take.

Fjord The war of the Three Sisters. (continuation)

Sherima The Ascended power struggle in Sherima. Sivir/Cassiopia betrayal/revenge(as the betrayal is already over with)

The Void The constant threat of a full scale void invasion. The Kassadin/Malzahar War. Vel'koz's quest for time magic. (and Zilean)

Targon The Targonian/Sol drama. More on Taric and his exploits. The Solari conspiracy(that is my name for it). Targon v. Void

Damacia The Damacian/Noxus war. More on Quinn and the mysterious assassin she has been tracking(assumed/deduced[not sure which] to be Talon). Lux/Garen development, seeing as they are complete strangers due to the fact that they were raised apart. What would happen if Lucian and Vayne teamed up(seeing as their goals aline. Possible romance maybe?)

Bilgewater More on Gangplank's work after his fall. Update on Nautilus's revenge quest. Expansion on what Tahm's past activities/legends are.

Shadow Isles Give Evelynn some actual lore. Shadow Isles next Harrowing(this most likely won't be until October). More on what Elise is up to with her cult and spider god.

Yordles Teemo's death. (one can hope) Update on Veigar's progress with... whatever he is doing... Amumu. Why does he exist?(if he is a Yordle) More on Corki. Definite explanation on what Yordles are/come from(or a series of contradictory clues. Those would be interesting aswell) More on the Glade. What are the Yordles fighting? Since the existence of Tristana, Poppy, Corki, and Satan Teemo suggest(and flat out tell us) that the yordles have an army, yet we don't know what they are fighting...(unless I missed something)

Noxus The Noxus/Ionian war(more stories on it/explanations for it). More on Katrina's and Garen's star crossed lover story. Vladimir expansion. State of Noxus. (who is in charge?) Le Blanq, The Black Rose, and Swain?(they were suggested to have a connection)

Zuan An expansion of Zuan, featuring Jhin, who has a contract there.
Background on Ekko's, Vi's, and Jinx's connections with each other. Urgot, just, everything about him... More on Zac.

Piltover Explanation of Caitlyn's nemesis C(theorised to be Twisted Fate, due to his slipperiness and his affinity with cards) Zilean's story. Deepening of Janna's lore. Expanded Lore on Ezreal.

Ionia Ionian balance(Syndra/Karma strife). New job descriptions for the other members of the Kinko triumvirate. Yasuo/Riven situation(what with them both being deserters/traitors of their nations, and the possible animosity as Riven could be Yasuo's charge's murderer). Expansion on the Kinko/Order of the Shadow war. Explanation on what Soraka would be, what with the introduction of Sol, the creator of the source of her power. What even is Irelia? The lore details make her out to be a lich (what with her soul being bound to her blades), but she is still alive. So what is she?

Miscellaneous Finding a place for all the champs in limbo(as seen below). Morgana/Kayle Lore update/continuation. A continuation/resolution/tie in with the rest of the world for Nami. Fizz's people's disappearance explanation(could have to do with Nami's story). Further development on Mundo, Singed, Himerdinger, Rumble, Jayce, Victor(pretty much the inventors of Runeterra). Explanation on what in Maokai's sodden treestump is Skarner. Zyra, what is her purpose, how does she fit into the world, etc. More on Darkins in general. Shaco stories. Nocturn explanation. And of course, all new champions and places.

Yes, there's simply nothing to look forward to finding out in the future. They have certainly written themselves into a corner. What with the 56 different narratives they can expand on, aswell as all the new champions they have lined up.

tl:dr: "there's nothing to look forward to in League's narrative, lore, or story." is about as true of a statement as "Teemo is the most beloved champion in the game" or "League's ranked community is only comprised of people with the morals and patience of nuns."

RiotRiotJaredan4/19/2016, 5:05:31 AM13 votes

Attempt 12:

I just spent half an hour posting a response to your post, Darrosh, and it hung when loading and lost everything. Pulling my hair out a bit. Here's an unfortunately truncated version (I'm on my laptop as I'm on a travel day back from Spring Finals so don't have my usual trusty work desktop). Apologies if I'm a little brief for now.

In short: we have a lot of work to do to get our cadence of content up to a level that we are satisfied with. That will make a lot of difference in showing the world and its main players in action.

I disagree that our quality has not improved. I absolutely agree, and apologize, that we have much more to do in regard to cadence.

The main blockers in the past were due to not having the teams to make these things happen. Now, as teams are in place on our Creative Dev initiative and on League of Legends (just the way our production initiatives are organized) the challenge is in recruiting the right people to give us the writing resources (as well as the skills of other disciplines) on those teams to get content to you in addition to the content we already produce (including increasing the depth of the written content for Champ and ChampUp).

As I mentioned in another post recently, bringing in people who are excellent writers, and excellent Rioters is extremely challenging. As one of the people challenged with doing that task, it's a responsibility not just for the thing we want to make now, but it's for the health of Riot and the quality of content we want to produce for years to come. I, and other hiring managers and recruiters, have to think in the long-term for many undeniable reasons, even when our personal desire to ship content to you makes it very tempting to do otherwise.

Even so, there are still things being produced that we want to build out our Champs and the world they inhabit in a way that will give a better understanding of it while delivering on strong story. We don't want to explain the world through wiki entry. We want to show it in story.

There are a variety of different teams working on things that include character and story content (Champion, ChampUp, Foundations), and other teams that are exclusively working on story media content that I hope you will see soon. I know that's another 'soon' answer, and I don't like to give them as they are too vague (which you rightly say is also an issue with the overall understanding of the direction of Runeterra as a story world). It's not just Narrative, there are a number of people from various disciplines, such as Art, Audio, Dev Management etc. working on teams across Riot to get more to you.

We wrote Burning Tides: The Reckoning and Shadow and Fortune as direct responses to issues with events like the Freljord. We know we've had an issue with mystery boxes or just setting things up and leaving them hanging. We want to show things being setup in the world, having resolutions to arcs, and there ramifications setting up other arcs. Though TF and Graves resolved part of their story, it will lead them on to the next adventure. Their actions set up a large arc for both MF and Gangplank that will have a lot of impact on Bilgewater for some time to come.

We will be continuing various stories.

Shurima next.

We would love to do more, concurrently, but we don't have the extra writing resources as of yet. That's changing though, and the work being done by some newer members of the team will be arriving with you through this year.

I know it seems easy to rewrite a few paragraphs in 45 minutes (also, multiply that by 100+), but it isn't, not within the environment of limited resources and competing priorities that are absolutely valid considerations. Also, we want our Champ intros to be better than they ever were (and I think we're doing that). All of the Champions will be getting rewritten intros, including those who have inconsistencies due to the change we made in removing the IoW. It's simply that doing themed bundles such as Foundations, Champ and ChampUp did with Targon makes a ton of sense for us from a production standpoint.

Your questions about the world:

Noxus is an expansionist empire that highly values adding strength to its already considerable might. Ionia is a land unique with the way its people and lands are affected by magic that is almost opulent in comparison to many other realms. That's a very dangerous way of looking at magic, particularly the wilder elements of Ionia's relationship to that power, but it would make Ionia very interesting to Noxus. There are other motivations for the Noxian occupation of Ionia, including the actions of some specific Champs and related characters that we want to show in stories (as well as the impact the invasion had on Ionia at the end of the main conflict), so I can't go into details here due to spoilers, but I hope I've covered the general idea of why that invasion still happened.

Noxus and Demacia don't have the runes that can cause the level of devastation seen in the Rune Wars. Not at the moment. There are a variety of runes that can do some pretty impressive things, but only a particular set of them have the power that was displayed in the horrors of the Rune Wars. And Bard isn't the only player when it comes to taking care of threats on a global scale, particularly where runes that could devastate continents are involved.

When Noxus push the Barbarians far enough North, it gets a lot harder to pursue, particularly with the Avarosans involved thanks to Tryndamere. Also, I'd think with Noxus having a fairly limited understanding of the Freljord (in regard to the power that lurks beneath the ice) their motivation to pursue the comparatively ragtag survivors across a seemingly frigid wasteland isn't overwhelming. That might be something certain Noxians live to regret.

I understand your frustration. I share it, even if I disagree with certain points, mainly in some matters of taste, but I do agree we need to get more to you.

To your suggestions:

  1. We're working on a variety of episodic stories to set up expectation of content cadence and then deliver on it with consistency to create trust and do many of the things we want to pay off on. We have plans to have a variety of Narrative folks talk about different elements of Champions and Runeterra, such as with the Targon podcast. You'll be hearing those in the weeks and months ahead. For what I can do personally, I want to do some regular chats about aspects of story and character. I'll try to do that, but, frankly, my main priority is finding writers to provide the long-term sustainable content we all want. I've been asked to do an ASK.FM and I've promised to set that up once I'm back in the busy swing of things this week.

  2. A map is in process. It will follow the style variety and execution as shown in the Bilgewater map and in the Shurima artifact teased in the Rek'Sai launch. The Foundations team, with Bio, is working on it.

  3. We want to focus on culture through the lens of character, But we certainly want to do that more, as we did in the examples you gave.

  4. We can talk varying degrees in success of execution for sure, but I think our recent Champs show a lot of variety in personality. Ekko, Illaoi, Jhin, and Aurelion Sol, for example.

  5. Completely agreed. We want a variety of tones in Runeterra and content that reflects it. We've leaned into certain tones a bit too consistently.

  6. I can only talk personally on this, engagement here is an individual thing for Rioters, but I disagree that I cherry pick positive posts alone. Maybe I've let my ratio slip due to pure time constraints recently, but I hope I've shown I'm willing to engage on the most thorny issues over the last 18 months. You may have not seen those posts, but they're there. The main issue I have is the amount of time I can spend responding (it takes a while as this second attempt at this post shows). It's a priority for me, but it's one among other priorities that includes getting more great writers in to ship more content to you. I'm going to give ASK.FM a go and see if that helps a bit, but I certainly want to engage more than I've been able to lately.

I respect your passion and willingness to lay out your thoughts clearly, Darrosh. Thank you. I hope I've answered some of the questions you had, and I hope this being written in a bit of a rush doesn't make it completely incoherent.

Cheers,

GreenLore4/17/2016, 10:15:05 AM7 votes

I agree with many of your points(some champs still having invalid lore is really bad,a map should definetly come out,a bit more humor would be good,etc.).

Though I think they did actually improve when it comes to the personalities of the champs and the cultures of their nations.

And to be fair,lore progression was scarce in the past anyway,most champs came with their own story that never progressed.(and last year had 2 lore "events" that both progressed the story) Also I think it makes sense to focus on focus on the foundations before progressing the individual stories.

Xonra4/18/2016, 3:24:30 AM7 votes

Quite frankly, the lore has gone the way of everything else Riot just flippantly shrugs off the past year and a half (convenient that time when you think about it, given the retcon).

It basically comes down to this

  • Riot badly abandons, and if not abandon, then greatly ignores in half assed fashion. a feature/item/piece of content
  • Players/Fans/whatever give up on it because Riot doesn't give it any attention, doesn't update said thing, and the thing starts to show it's age and the half assery mentioned above.
  • Riot goes "Oh, uh, no one really cares anyways so guess we will ignore or remove it now"
  • Players glare at Riot and go "no one cared because YOU didn't care and left it to die".
  • Riot ignores said people and brings out a new skin, and a few pages of fluff that they will never return to (lore wise specifically) whenever they are bringing out a new champion or major rework (or all of the above).

I mean, I LOVE the lore, but I've just given up on it because Riot has made it very clear they have no intention of updating it fully, fleshing it out any further than pushing out a few lines for a new champion, and I'm not even sure there IS a lore team anymore truthfully. The whole "Targon event" was anything but. It was a few pages of lore that pointlessly changed Pantheon, Diana, and Leona's lore in order to make any sense with a new champion and Taric's rework.

Lore doesn't need to be some huge event once a year, just something consistent. People might not care to be fair, about the lore, but it isn't because they wouldn't care, it is because what is there to care about?

Talos of Altmora4/17/2016, 4:08:17 PM6 votes

I more worried about them changing the personalities of the characters I like. I mean, new Targon changed my three favorite characters into characters that I now absolutely hate. I'm mostly more worried about the lore's future, because I'm scared they'll change settings and characters that I liked into something completely different.

FlippyGoneTrippy4/17/2016, 5:07:48 PM2 votes

League of Legends has some of my favorite lore from any game. The only one I like more is probably Pokemon.. Yugioh... But those all started off in multiple mediums where as League has always been just a game.

League has fantastic stories. Every single short story I've read from Riot since the retcon has been fantastic. The Bilgewater event was handled best in my opinion. We got a new game map, a crap load of episodic short stories and an interactive mural of Bilgewater to explore, showing off tons of the culture. All of the stories (not just from Bilgewater) have been written excellently; keeping me engaged from start to finish.

These stories don't need to be continued. The stories existing are enough. Riot games is making a game; the universe comes second. If you're so interested in what happened with the storyline of the three sister's; go find some fan fiction. I'm not a fan of Pokemon because the riveting stories that lead me wondering what's next. I'm a fan because the video games are pretty damn fun.

Next, these stories do add tons of depth to the characters. The champion you brought up (Tristana) hasn't even had a damn story written about her! What about Graves and Twisted Fate? Fantastically written stories that add a ton of depth to the champions. Or Kindred and Tahm; where elements of their lore are seen while playing the game adding even more depth.

I'm betting you Riot will give us a map when THEY have a map. Right now all we have is Bilgewater, Mt. Targon and the Shadow Isles.

League doesn't need more humor. Check the boards or YouTube. Humor is the communities speciality :p in my opinion Riot could have better delivery methods for their lore. The Bilgewater event was shoved right in my face in the client, with unlockable icons and new objectives. As well as releasing it in bursts so I didn't have 15 pages to read at once. All of the other lore has been a lot more hidden than the Bilgewater event and I have no idea why Riot didn't stick with this medium. I didn't read all of the Mt. Targon lore because there was nothing in the client to connect to it.

What do you have to look forward to? More short stories! More map events! More cinematics! There are a lot of champions who haven't had their stories redone yet. If Riot keeps this quality up they will by far have the best lore ever. Pantheon, Kalista, Thresh, Hecarim, Gangplank... All amazing stories... The list goes on.