Whatever the BIG Lore Reveal for the Bilgewater event is, it's not going to be worth it

Darrosh Jewfist··85 votes·15,293 views

I feel the lore fans have been repeatedly punished by the Narrative Department.

What I mean by this is that a lot of our trust and goodwill and most especially patience has been trampled repeatedly. We are promised a lot and therefore our expectations are constantly rising - and that is even moreso given the vast amount of time since the retcon (10 months) to fix things.

Tech issues. Shorter Bios. Promises.

So this is what's going to happen:

"The greater the anticipation, the greater the disappointment"

I think League prides itself on producing not a living, breathing world, but a spectacle world. It's trying it's damn hardest to look cool to catch that momentary interest before fading away. Then it expects to be given props for doing that.

I'm going to go off on some education/social theory now regarding why League Lore is so inadequate.

Look, there are three forms of engagement: Behavioral engagement - People do this everyday out of force of habit [e.g. Someone who goes to work and flips burgers. It's not the strongest form of engagement but it's still engagement. Other examples include putting the toilet down and etc - essentially force of habits that become almost second nature]

This is the sort of engagement most of the Board actually engages in. We sign on to play League for the first-win of the day bonus. We log onto the boards to check stuff out/up or downvote/check reddit/comment/post/etc...

**Emotional engagement **- Something new stimulates a response [e.g. There's a fire or a burglary happens or someone buys a new car or something EXPLODES. It stimulates the effect of either fear or happiness - some emotional response - and that makes people want to know more about it]

This is clearly the form of engagement the narrative team wants and is also poorly implemented. Emotional engagement is actually the weakest over time as it cannot sustain itself (usually once it's out of sight, it's forgotten). Yet the Narrative and marketing departments repeatedly focus on this, but with several months in between these bursts of activity - it's not enough to keep players interested and certainly not entertained or happy.

Cognitive engagement - It's so interesting that people FEEL compelled to seek more knowledge of it. [e.g. A riddle or a logic puzzles a student so they continue to think about. A difficult game or challenge occurs and people seek more knowledge of it. Think of how much theorycrafting people do for games like EVE, Starcraft, Diablo, and etc... there's clearly a force of interest that sustains itself much more greatly than either behavioral or emotional does. People will be ACTIVELY thinking of new ideas instead of consuming them and accepting them - asking themselves how this change will affect them. This is the kind of stuff you see in the SurrenderAt20 PBE updates where people are theorycrafting and discussing balance changes.]

This is the strongest form of engagement and certainly the one Riot should be aiming for as it produces the best longevity of any series. Warhammer especially is filled with it because as detailed as the world is - there's still so much mystery and open ended unknowns to the several running plotpoints. Granted the fans may disagree on several key detail points - but this only shows how much stronger the engagement and thus connection to the game is.

**And that's why the Narrative team will fail: **they focus too much on emotional engagement rather than cognitive engagement.

We're going to get another spectacle burst. Bilgewater happens but nothing substantial gets added. There's no new information - nothing to theorycraft on - just nothing. Oh hey we added some flavor text. Oh hey we have a new map and a few paragraphs of bio.

That's not enough.

There's no where near enough. Because those who are cognitively engaged will exhaust all of that in an afternoon before going 'well, what now? I'm done and there's not enough here to actually answer the questions I have... if I have any.'

I am confident that whatever lore the Narrative throws out at Bilgewater is going to look great, cool, awesome, and shallow as crap. There's no depth. There's no mystery. What the hell does the word Buhru or whatever mean to me IF I DON'T HAVE A GODDAMN MAP? What's the point of all these pirate captain-kings and outlaws and bandits if I don't even know what Bilgewater looks like? MUCH LESS WHERE IT IS ON THE MAP. How am I suppose to go beyond the crappy trope-ladened-fest that it's a pirate cove den (done repeatedly to death by other franchises) and ask myself: Hm, how is this different from any other generic fantasy franchise?

It looks cooler? Thanks to the Art team.

But does it tell a better story? Does it make me want to know more about the world? Can I find the answers I'm looking for in text, audio interactions, or flavor text and not have to be spoonfed in imprompto AMAs by the narrative team members?

Yeah. When most of our current lore understanding comes from random Riot red posts popping up now and then - that's a bad sign.

It's going to take months of consistent lore releases, reversals, and some serious output by Narrative to reverse this. Otherwise, once again:

"The greater the anticipation, the greater the disappointment."

tl:dr - Bilgewater will entertain us for a day then we will go back to feeling empty and hollow after our lore-drug fix.

135 Comments

Variks the Loyal15 votes

They really need to find an avenue for storytelling.

They could go the normal way - Novels, comics, short stories, etc...

They could also go out of the box - Animated shorts, or an animated series, an in-game story/career mode...

There's so much potential. I think they're too worried about trying to discover a new way to deliver narrative that no one's done before, and they either haven't found it or have just fallen flat in trying. I don't care if they start putting out comics - That's a tried and true method that lots of franchises use, and could make us lore fans really happy. But they can't deliver a good narrative through, for example, champion specific shopkeeper quotes, or on item flavor text. Those are tastes, and like TahmKench says, "I DEMAND AN ENTREE!"

Xulsigae12 votes

They also aren't very easy to pay attention to in a fast paced game. It works for MMOs and RPGs where reading text or listening to quotes is easy to do because one isn't being rushed. A quote in League is all well and good but often requires one to taunt in the middle of a fight where it will probably be muffled by all the other spells and such being cast and get you killed for doing a taunt in the middle of battle. Also one has to know to taunt someone specifically, at which point you would have to read the quote before hand thereby rendering the in game interaction moot.

Darrosh Jewfist26 votes

Yeah, the idea that you need to TAUNT an enemy within range to get basically an Easter Egg interaction is cool - but it shouldn't be the main driving force of lore delivery. I mean, is Riot promoting poor gameplay option (taunting an enemy within range and leaving you open to harass and within LoS) vs. getting to hear these interactions?

There are so many better ways to deliver on this.

Why don't they try...

  • Unique Fountain/Game start quotes. Like if Ashe and Sejuani are on opposite teams Ashe goes "i got dibs on the pig" or Sejuani says "I'm going to break that Archer's pretty little neck."
  • If an enemy successfully ults/uses a certain move on another champion. For example, if Gangplank successfully ults an MF he can taunt "Haha! Prepare to be boarded!" And if she stays during the entire duration he'll keep on taunting, "How do you like MY rain, Fortune!?"
  • Interactions just for attacking certain enemies. For example: Lucian and Thresh can be expected to be pretty common lane opponents. So if Lucian keeps shooting at Thresh he can say "That was for Sena!" and if Thresh hits back he can say "Your wife says 'saaaaveee meeee!'

All of this, not only is so much easier to trigger than taunting an enemy but also makes the action feel so much natural and alive. Imagine if Demacian heroes just managed to score a kill together with Lux taking the kill but Garen got the assist. Lux might say 'Score one for me!' and Garen goes 'Don't you mean score one for us?'

Just... simple, interactions BUILT during the course of expected and natural gameplay. That way, instead of people who may not check up on specific interactions and spend each and every game taunting enemies - these interactions occur naturally over time.

For example, if these sort of interactions were in placed - a dedicated Garen player might soon realize he has a boatload of unique interactions. This might encourage him to main another character he likes to see if he has other interactions (for example if he likes Jarvan and Jarvan has a unique interaction just for ulting a Darius and say 'GET DUNK'D!)

;_; so much potential

BetaDude4010 votes

I read all of those quotes in the characters' voices. :D

I would think that the methods they have for showing us lore is immense, and that the writers on the lore team are well-experienced in writing. I would think that they, of all people, would know where to take the lore and how to shape it.

But honestly, over the past 10 months, I have no reason to listen to them. I've enlisted in Factions (make this shameless advertisement #5537635463...), and as far as my head-canon will care, their words mean nothing to me anymore. At the retcon announcement, I was devastated, but I had a feeling that they could direct the lore to even better content. I trusted them, and I made a mistake in doing so.

I mean, hell, if they claim they can't make new lore because they don't know how to edit a .txt file (I still think the "technical issue" excuse is beyond bullshit at this point), then how can we trust them to treat Runeterra like anything other than a marketing ploy that funnels people in with cool visuals and takes them to the LCS? Obviously, gameplay is way more important than lore, but giving meaning and purpose as well as an understanding of a character's personality and experiences can keep people engaged in League.

I know this might receive downvotes just because of the seemingly natural hatred towards him, but I would not be playing this game today if it weren't for Teemo. When I was being consistently abused by people in my level 20-30 climb, I felt compelled to press the uninstall button and never play this game again. What made me come back was Teemo. Something about how he has a cute exterior and an extremely dark, sociopathic desire for killing is an interesting character design, and of any champion in the game that I like, Teemo is very far up there (behind Velkoz, of course). Lore and character personalities can keep players engaged, because they don't want to let go of them. I honestly feel like Teemo is attached to me in some way (I'm still not sure if this is a good thing...), and he is something I couldn't forget about.

All in all, I've probably just been rambling and I need to go to sleep. The potential for storytelling and the purpose behind it is overwhelming, but the lore we get is so disgusting and empty that I think the "big thing" they have by the end of this month will just be another flop. I wish I could trust them, but I'm afraid that bond between me and the official story is completely lost now, as I dive deeper into the realms of fanfiction and head-canon.

Darrosh Jewfist5 votes

Go write fanfiction, my son. I believe in you.

;_; Dude, that teemo story got me hard.

Sneak Dog9 votes

I would think that the methods they have for showing us lore is immense, and that the writers on the lore team are well-experienced in writing. I would think that they, of all people, would know where to take the lore and how to shape it.

I'd disagree here. I think Riots writers are entirely inexperienced in writing lore for videogames, treating it as writing a book about over one-hundred characters.

Else they would've actually used the game to bring lore. They wouldn't have disconnected the stories they tell and the game. They did, either because they weren't up to the challenge or think this is a better way of doing lore.

I'm fine with that though, I like books. I just see wasted potential.

BetaDude408 votes

Don't quote me on this, but they have several experienced writers capable of creating very good stories. For example, I think (again, no quoting :P) that one of the main producers of Avatar: The Last Airbender might be on the lore team. To be honest, I don't have a spreadsheet or something with whoever is working on the lore team, I just heard that somewhere before. I'd imagine other similar writers are also onboard, with whoever that Warhammer 40k guy was that joined recently (I haven't played any of the Warhammer games. Something tells me I need to). What is puzzling is why are all of these experienced writers have such a hard time with the lore?

I don't think we'll ever truly know the problem, especially with the lore team's complete disconnection to the community. All we know is that it has been 10 months since the retcon announcement, and all we've gotten are 3 poorly executed lore events (I'm counting Freljord, as well as Shurima and Shadow Isles. The first one just kind of faded to obscurity, and we never got to hear of an outcome, while they also retcon Trundle completely. Shurima was entirely done to shoehorn Azir into the game somehow, but in the process almost every champion we knew that was or was not quite associated with Shurima was changed completely (hello Skarner). The Shadow Isles thing is probably the lesser of the three evils, but it really isn't all that better. It literally told us nothing other than "vengeance spear, betch", unless you're willing to dig 500 miles into the forum to find that Kalista story again)

I'll be nice for once. I'll give them some time. But if we reach the official 1-year Anniversary of the retcon, without so much of a smidgen of something good, then it's official that the writers are completely incompetent at their job, that the retcon completely failed (as if that's not apparent enough), and that Riot may have lost a large playerbase that did actually care, unlike the lore team.

Legacy of Xion7 votes

Just as a note:

Kalistas story wasnt even about Kalista. It was about a shield maiden.

All inknow is Kalista in all VENGENEANCE. And nothing else.

Peridition1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legacy of Xion,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=0003000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T15:08:33.494+0000)

Just as a note:

Kalistas story wasnt even about Kalista. It was about a shield maiden.

All inknow is Kalista in all VENGENEANCE. And nothing else.

Isn't the point though?

The narrative shifted long ago. You no longer get some omniscient perspective of each champion like some deity (or summoner) pulling all the strings. You get a perspective of how they are known in relation to the world of Runeterra, as if you are a part of Runeterra.

Kalista is an ancient spirit of vengeance that predates much of recorded history. Tahm Kench is a evil river demon that possess the bodies of people who make bargains with him. You may not know their origins, but thats how the people of Runeterra would understand them.

Legacy of Xion10 votes

I'm not from Runeterra. I was retconned from Runeterra. So I'd appreciate knowing more about the champions I get to play with in the noncanon arena called the Rift.

Sneak Dog10 votes

A bookwriter doesn't necessarily make a good moviewriter. Riot tells good stories, but they explicitly abandoned the idea of writing videogame lore.

I've already stopped caring about the new lore. With it, my interest in League has been cut significantly too.

that Riot may have lost a large playerbase that did actually care, unlike the lore team.

Only thing lore team seems to care about is writing nice stories. Everything else, the world, characters et cetera, is just a tool to use and throw away.

Schnizzz9 votes

I often wonder why they even EXIST any more.

The story has nothing to do with the game anymore, so why bother developing it? And why bother putting it IN the game? It would be less painful that having existing characters butchered, new characters being so vague and uninteresting, and understanding that the game is utterly meaningless and makes no sense.

The only theory that made sense was to open up the world for future games to be developed, But if their attitude to lol was "the game doesn't need to fit into the story" why would any other game need to fit the story?

What i really feel bad about is the art department, because they're putting out great stuff, the bard, ekko, Tahm, and Shurima videos and comics were great pieces, but totally worthless and hollow in terms of content, they taught us almost nothing about the story, just teased at the idea of there being a story. So much time and effort wasted on amazing artwork that nobody will ever care about.

Baron of Bread4 votes

Some of those interactions already happen. Vi and Caitlyn have several things like that in the Vi VO, I don't know of other cases and I know there are places where there should be such interactions but there aren't any, in which case I agree that it should be put in.

Darrosh Jewfist7 votes

Braum also has some good interactions if he blocks certain ults like Ashe's Arrow or Caitlyn's Ace in the Hole. That's the kind of stuff I think more of would be superior than taunting interactions.

ArkenStorm4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T01:19:14.335+0000)

  • Unique Fountain/Game start quotes. Like if Ashe and Sejuani are on opposite teams Ashe goes "i got dibs on the pig" or Sejuani says "I'm going to break that Archer's pretty little neck."

that's MISTER pig to you

http://i.imgur.com/KJNsbH2.gif

Shac Norris11 votes

I've given up on league lore at the very moment i saw amumu's new lore, which was 2-3 paragraphs long and then BANG 1 sentence, and then everybody complained at once and flooded the forums, and then a week later, a second sentence popped up.

i used to read champion's lore, in fact, i read every single one of them, but now, i dont give a fuck anymore, riot screwed it over, they even got rid of the journal, just to tell you how much they dont give a shit about the lore. Big lore event? My ass. Genius.

Darrosh Jewfist11 votes

I totally feel you. Reading the champ's new lore was always exciting. Ahri. Sejuani's. Elise's... all these characters I really enjoyed visually and thematically had fairly strong lore to go with them.

The latest champs? They really fall flat and not having substantial lore to read on - to get inside their head or the reasons why they are who they are - really breaks the connection I feel for these characters.

Might as well be barbie dolls to me.

WolfBV5 votes

The new PBE update shortened Gangplank 's TwistedFate 's and Graves 's lores. It also gets rid of their rivalry with each other. Yeah, go lore! ._.

KING OF MASKS10 votes

What narrative really needs to do is stop everything they're doing and start working on foundational lore. Maps and city-state lore pieces, that sort of thing. These events are utterly useless without that sort of background information.

Seriously, I would take back a good eighth of my criticisms against narrative if they managed to produce a single fucking map. Don't even give a shit about production values, just take a goddamn napkin and sketch something for us.

SpecterVonBaren8 votes

I was suddenly reminded of how one of my favorite things to do with some books like the hobbit was to just look at the map at the front of the book and look over all the places it had. Man it would be awesome if we had a map with not just locations but maybe names of old battlegrounds or sketches of characters as if they were some sort of mythical thing (Like a sort of, "here be monsters" style sketch of Skarner in the Shurima desert)

http://i50.tinypic.com/34fxx5c.png

turkeyBACON5 votes

I really hope you're wrong. Not only because I want Riot to rise to the occasion but because I'm getting sick and bored of all this circle jerk whining and complaining about a lore event that isn't even released yet. Hey here's an idea how about we hold judgement till after Bildgewater is released and then decide if it's a failure or you know possibly good?

YES, a lot of the community's complaints are justified but basically all of our grievances has been stated in some form or another already and you guys dropping the hammer feels a little premature. Riot needs to put up or shut up but for the love of all that's good and holey can we not bash theoretical lore content that's not even out?

Darrosh Jewfist7 votes

There's bashing lore content and then there's bashing the delivery of the lore. Given what we know about every single previous lore presentation shown by Riot - from Shadow Isles, Freljord, Shurima, and the recent Ekko stuff with Pilover - the lore has been really short, brief, and most damning of all unsupported.

So yes, Bilgewater will happen. Yes it will be fun.

But is Riot going to cultivate the lore? Grow it? Foster it? Give it regularly and well deserved updates?

Prolly not.

Man, if anything discussing the faults of a game while continuing to play and support it demonstrates there is still a fanbase that cares. I want League's narrative and lore to flourish and grow but holy crap do I strongly disagree with certain decisions and moves by this department.

turkeyBACON3 votes

Riot's already said that they've heard our complaints and are making changes to how they deliver it. Hopefully Riot will live up to those promises but lets not string up the gallows until the actual thing is revealed.

Darrosh Jewfist9 votes

At this point patience is heavily exhausted. There's no transparency. There's nothing beyond their words of: trust us.

Seriously, that's all these Jaerdan posts amounts to: wait and trust us.

And they've failed to deliver adequate each time. One event every three-six months just isn't enough. It's not a model designed for longevity.

Some of us have been waiting for months, ten months. Others have been waiting since Freljord and the Trundle retcon and longer which is YEARS of waiting. Jesus, and only just now do they _hear _ our complaints?

There is no simple, one shot big burst of lore cure. This trust issue between the narrative department members and the board community and the lore fans at large isn't going to be solved with one or two events - it's going to take a serious, sustained, and very strong effort to deliver.

They hired the Warhammer author - that's great. But they also had several notable authors from other franchises who floundered and produced zilch.

That of course, doesn't change the reality that the narrative department is being run and performs like **a joke. **

HowPlayGAEM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T06:08:27.110+0000)

They hired the Warhammer author - that's great. But they also had several notable authors from other franchises

Is this true?

I ask because the lore/narrative team has produced absolutely nothing of value (exaggeration - Sion was good) to even remotely suggest they have any notable or competent writers.

Darrosh Jewfist4 votes

Tom Abernathy who wrote the original Dev Blog for the retcon and is no longer with riot was the principal writer for games like Halo Reach and Saboteur.

They also hired Christina Norman who was the lead writer of Mass Effect 3.

But, of course, due to the sheer secrecy of the Narrative Department we aren't entirely sure who is or isn't in the department anymore other than Jaerdan. So it's entirely possible they've added people or people left without any fanfare at all.

HowPlayGAEM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T21:32:28.800+0000)

Tom Abernathy who wrote the original Dev Blog for the retcon and is no longer with riot was the principal writer for games like Halo Reach and Saboteur.

They also hired Christina Norman who was the lead writer of Mass Effect 3.

That's surprising really, with those kinds of names I'd have expected significantly more from the lore. I can only assume that either the management at Riot is total ass, or the forced collaborative/iterative approach prevents any progress from occurring. Probably both.

Darrosh Jewfist4 votes

Tom Abernathy is pretty nefarious for writing the Dev Blog and leaving pretty shortly after (confirmed via deleted twitter post). But he's also pretty wellknown for saying "plot is overracted - focus on the characters."

WHICH IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER JOKE GIVEN HOW BADLY THESE CHARACTERS ARE MADE. The recent champs are more trope-fest caricatures than actual champs. Ekko, Rek'Sai, Tahm... all of them are shallow and uninteresting because there's nothing much beyond those 3 lines of text. Goddamn, the Ekko comic and the Ekko short clip TELLS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME EXACT INFORMATION.

RiotBioluminescence17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T21:32:28.800+0000)

Tom Abernathy who wrote the original Dev Blog for the retcon and is no longer with riot was the principal writer for games like Halo Reach and Saboteur.

They also hired Christina Norman who was the lead writer of Mass Effect 3.

But, of course, due to the sheer secrecy of the Narrative Department we aren't entirely sure who is or isn't in the department anymore other than Jaerdan. So it's entirely possible they've added people or people left without any fanfare at all.

Just as a tiny point, Christina Norman was lead gameplay designer on Mass Effect 3.

(I can't usefully wade in to the rest of this thread, unfortunately. Will the Bilgewater event wash away everything bad that's happened? Nope. Will it be a step in the right direction? I hope so! I'm figuratively holding my breath until then. Should everyone else do the same? That is entirely up to each player's individual discretion.)

KING OF MASKS10 votes

Heh... Bilgewater event, washing things away? Huehuehuehuehuehuehue.

Good one, Bio.

Dextix LT7 votes

Basically "Wait and hope" , Just like we did for 10 months now.......

Can you finally tell narrative to start effing working?

Darrosh Jewfist4 votes

I imagine feelings will be hurt if that conversation was had.

Narrative delenda est

Dextix LT5 votes

I care about narrative teams feelings just like they care about ours. None, at, all.

kile1473 votes

To be fair, although I think the narrative is lacking, I doubt it's the narrative team's fault. Unless Riot is testing the "prisoner island" technique by putting all their bad/toxic employees in one place (probably not), then the narrative team is probably made up of people who want to be there and want to make narrative. They are not reading through the boards sustaining themselves on our QQ, they don't want to intentionally make a bad experience for us. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if some Rioters wrote league fanfic in their spare time (or work time idk how Riot does stuff) becuase they are just a big of fans of the game as we are, so stop assuming it's completely a US vs THEM mentality.

I miss the old lore, and I think that there were probably better ways to fix its somewhat limiting nature and various inconsistencies, and maybe new lore won't ever come out that'll really replace it, but assuming that it's done out of spite or the narrative teams lack of concern is probably not only inaccurate but very hurtful as well.

RiotBioluminescence8 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, although I think the narrative is lacking, I doubt it's the narrative team's fault. Unless Riot is testing the "prisoner island" technique by putting all their bad/toxic employees in one place (probably not), then the narrative team is probably made up of people who want to be there and want to make narrative. They are not reading through the boards sustaining themselves on our QQ, they don't want to intentionally make a bad experience for us. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if some Rioters wrote league fanfic in their spare time (or work time idk how Riot does stuff) becuase they are just a big of fans of the game as we are, so stop assuming it's completely a US vs THEM mentality.

I actually do write fan fiction in my spare time. I wrote two short stories when Bard was announced, and another for Ezreal during the Shurima event. Now, not being a writer by trade (just by hobby) they're probably crap - but that's not the point. :) I'd like to get feedback on them from the writers here, but I don't want to 'steal' a single second of their time from the work they're doing.

There are stories being written behind the scenes by real writers - and I know from talking to them that it is hugely demoralizing for them to not be able to get those stories out to players yet. It's not secret private journals they're writing after all - they write in the hope that they'll be read, that they'll be enjoyed by readers.

I can tell that my brief comment earlier is just making me a target here again despite my best efforts, so I'll stop here. My apologies to those who were trying to chat to me.

Tesla Effect5 votes

{quoted}

I actually do write fan fiction in my spare time. I wrote two short stories when Bard was announced, and another for Ezreal during the Shurima event. Now, not being a writer by trade (just by hobby) they're probably crap - but that's not the point. :) I'd like to get feedback on them from the writers here, but I don't want to 'steal' a single second of their time from the work they're doing.

There are stories being written behind the scenes by real writers - and I know from talking to them that it is hugely demoralizing for them to not be able to get those stories out to players yet. It's not secret private journals they're writing after all - they write in the hope that they'll be read, that they'll be enjoyed by readers.

I can tell that my brief comment earlier is just making me a target here again despite my best efforts, so I'll stop here. My apologies to those who were trying to chat to me.

Can you share those fan fictions with us?

RiotBioluminescence6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tesla Effect,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000001000400000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-07-13T19:57:13.691+0000)

Can you share those fan fictions with us?

Hey, Tesla Effect - I'm not ignoring you. I've sent an email off to see if that would be ok, or if it would be too weird to have an official Rioter posting unofficial fan-fiction on official boards. I hope it will be fine, but I could see them asking me not to.

DamienSolta5 votes

That really is especially sad. I guess there is a ton of both polished but unpublished (for whatever reason) content and even cooler conceptual and working content that we players will never see. I really have to hope against hope that there will be some payoff for the hardcore lore fans after this mess. Otherwise a lot of cool stuff that inspires the in house teams will never get to the people who would best appreciate it.

The internet has a lot of hate, but the rioters who post and read the stuff even in spite of the hate directed (justified or not) are at least people who care enough to wade through it. I haven't been burned by this whole lore debacle, but I'd hope anyone willing to listen is worth treating as an ally. I dunno, maybe I'm just too optimistic. Hope we will find out "soon".

Retillin9 votes

{quoted}

I actually do write fan fiction in my spare time. I wrote two short stories when Bard was announced, and another for Ezreal during the Shurima event. Now, not being a writer by trade (just by hobby) they're probably crap - but that's not the point. :) I'd like to get feedback on them from the writers here, but I don't want to 'steal' a single second of their time from the work they're doing.

There are stories being written behind the scenes by real writers - and I know from talking to them that it is **hugely demoralizing for them to not be able to get those stories out to players **yet. It's not secret private journals they're writing after all - they write in the hope that they'll be read, that they'll be enjoyed by readers.

Just as demoralizing for players to not get them in a year...

I can tell that my brief comment earlier is just making me a target here again despite my best efforts, so I'll stop here. My apologies to those who were trying to chat to me.

Don't do this Bio. If you run because people are mocking the same "wait and see" that has been said about "Lore" for a year you do nothing but increase the dislike/hate. And that will drive more Reds from the boards, and that will increase more dislike/hate. Only Riot can break that trend. You are getting attacked because there is no one at Riot moving the narrative forward when it comes to lore. (whether directly releasing lore, or giving insights on "upcoming" lore) All we are getting is "we have something really exciting to drive lore in a month". This times up to the Bilgewater event. And if that is the "something really exciting to drive lore in a month" then Riot once again failed to understand the peole who are upset with them, and why....

RiotBioluminescence7 votes

{quoted}

Don't do this Bio. If you run because people are mocking the same "wait and see" that has been said about "Lore" for a year you do nothing but increase the dislike/hate. And that will drive more Reds from the boards, and that will increase more dislike/hate. Only Riot can break that trend. You are getting attacked because there is no one at Riot moving the narrative forward when it comes to lore. (whether directly releasing lore, or giving insights on "upcoming" lore) All we are getting is "we have something really exciting to drive lore in a month". This times up to the Bilgewater event. And if that is the "something really exciting to drive lore in a month" then Riot once again failed to understand the peole who are upset with them, and why....

I like talking to you guys on the boards - I mean, by rights I shouldn't really be on here, chatting, as I'm definitely not the most informed on all this stuff. I don't want to be yet another link in the chain of misunderstanding and communication breakdown!

The problem is that I'm not the person you want here - not really. So am I just rubbing salt in wounds by even turning up? Trust me - I don't want to make people angry by my very appearance - it's not what gets me out of bed in the morning by any means. I understand why you're all angry (I read lots of the threads, so yes, I know Sneak Dog has had his trust destroyed by the Trundle change, and I know Impetual has a lot of questions that go unanswered, and I know that Darrosh Jewfist has recently started advocating a 'salt the earth' campaign, a la Carthage/Rome on Narrative, and MaeggesMC for whom almost every comment is about Taric) and I want to help but there's so little I can do - and you guys sense it. And it frustrates you more!

I want to start threads and discussions on all sorts of things - I want to talk about Ionia and pick all your brains on the intricacies of that complicated nation! (For a side project of mine.) I want to talk about what stories there are about Bard (both inspired by 'true' events and folksy-morality-tales that tell more about the teller than Bard). I want to talk about silly things without drawing wrath at my implied dismissive attitude towards the real issues.

Retillin6 votes

{quoted}

I like talking to you guys on the boards - I mean, by rights I shouldn't really be on here, chatting, as I'm definitely not the most informed on all this stuff. I don't want to be yet another link in the chain of misunderstanding and communication breakdown!

The problem is that I'm not the person you want here - not really. So am I just rubbing salt in wounds by even turning up? Trust me - I don't want to make people angry by my very appearance - it's not what gets me out of bed in the morning by any means. I understand why you're all angry (I read lots of the threads, so yes, I know Sneak Dog has had his trust destroyed by the Trundle change, and I know Impetual has a lot of questions that go unanswered, and I know that Darrosh Jewfist has recently started advocating a 'salt the earth' campaign, a la Carthage/Rome on Narrative, and MaeggesMC for whom almost every comment is about Taric) and I want to help but there's so little I can do - and you guys sense it. And it frustrates you more!

And this is why I don't want YOU to be one to run from the boards. You wish to engage. Even when we have heard "we at Riot know we are not doing a good job of communicating" (over a year ago), people didn't trust that statement. And their distrust has been proven. It's not that you coming on here saying "I understand" that is the problem. It's the fact that even though we are told over and over that Riot wishes to communicate more, we end up getting less. What drives people to attack your statements has more to do with the fact that nothing has happened.

You are in a catch 22. If you don't answer, then it proves even more to the boards that Riot doesn't care. If you do with a simple "I don't know but I'm hopeful", then there is massive eye rolls for seeing such a statement for close to two years now.

I want to start threads and discussions on all sorts of things - I want to talk about Ionia and pick all your brains on the intricacies of that complicated nation! (For a side project of mine.) I want to talk about what stories there are about Bard (both inspired by 'true' events and folksy-morality-tales that tell more about the teller than Bard). I want to talk about silly things without drawing wrath at my implied dismissive attitude towards the real issues.

This is great for Riot. But it's ice cream... You can't have someone living off of it (the boards) and expect there to be no long term consequences. Until there is MEANINGFUL dialogue on topics the board/players keep moving to the front page, the silly things seem like a slap in the face. So again, you can try and help the boards know Riot is listening (and I hope you do), but until there is a major change in communication from Riot it will only get worse.

When I see the MASSIVE downvotes on some Riot responses it scares me. It makes me believe that Riot is living in such an isolated environment that the next thing they say will be "let them eat cake".

RiotBioluminescence5 votes

{quoted}

This is great for Riot. But it's ice cream... You can't have someone living off of it (the boards) and expect there to be no long term consequences. Until there is MEANINGFUL dialogue on topics the board/players keep moving to the front page, the silly things seem like a slap in the face. So again, you can try and help the boards know Riot is listening (and I hope you do), but until there is a major change in communication from Riot it will only get worse.

When I see the MASSIVE downvotes on some Riot responses it scares me. It makes me believe that Riot is living in such an isolated environment that the next thing they say will be "let them eat cake".

I do indeed try to ensure that the people who need to know, hear about the concerns on the Boards here. I've talked to other Rioters about specific posters here by name - they know you guys from your posts. I realize without seeing action, that's again just so many words.

And yep - the fun-thread junk-food issue is known to me. It ties into the Catch-22 issue though. I don't want to sit there eating ice-cream until we're all sick, but I don't have much 'meat' to give the other, more meaningful threads. Which means my comments are more sparse than I'd prefer.

Sneak Dog5 votes

I can't change what happened to Trundle, and I can't sign in blood that future champions won't go through a personality rework

Maybe Jaredan understood and agreed with my reasoning. Maybe he did neither. I've no clue whatsoever. Regardless, I don't really expect any statements from you on this front regardless Bio. It's just frustrating when nobody from Riot responds on such a grave subject when I do believe I have valid arguments (and I haven't seen others come with arguments to disprove mine).

Maybe this is a difficult thing to ask, Sneak Dog, but is there a topic that we could discuss that would be of interest/use?

I'd talk about how one could replace Trundle with a new champion character-wise, probably some kind of Demacian, but I'm sure you'd know full well how to do this yourself if you gave it a bit of thought and as such it's probably not very interesting for a discussion.

Perhaps how to tell a story through a videogame? Videogames are relatively unexplored as a medium to tell a story through, usually they're just treated as a book or a movie (sometimes with painful results). Not sure I have things to add to this discussion...

I'm not very knowledgeable about creative topics, the old lore is by now old and not really a topic you are looking for I think, and my excitement about the new lore is zero. Summed up, it is a difficult thing to ask.

Is there anything left?

I am not willing to invest in on-going stories where I_ know_ the writer doesn't care about his characters and will change/remove them. The initial trust I had is gone now, and has not been rebuilt. Had it been a finite amount of stories, I would've simply waited until it was finished and seen reviews before reading the stories.

I feel like this is a reasonable thing to do. Why put your time and emotions into a piece of work if there's proof the creators don't care about what they want you to care about? Riot removed a playable character from the game and hasn't done anything to show me that they think this was the wrong thing to do, much less repair the damages.

If Riot does repair, if they do bring Trundle back as a champion, then I'm good (in some form, not necessarily a plague troll). I'd be a bit sad with the wasted potential of retconning the immersive factor, but that is not a deal-breaker for me personally.

Edit: apologies for the wall of text, yeesh.

Earl Eulrich5 votes

the only step in the right direction at this point would be to acknowledge that the retcon was the entirly wrong thing to do...

Sneak Dog4 votes

Will it be a step in the right direction?

For me, there is no way it can be. I lost faith in Riot due to their carelessness about characters, they blatantly removed one of my favorite characters from the game. This event is not going to bring him back.

It might just remove another character though, making things worse.

TheGrandAlliance5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GjEauG9h,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-07-12T05:36:47.997+0000)

So yes, Bilgewater will happen. Yes it will be fun.

Well if Bilge is like SHumria... basically limited to a modded map (Howling; Crystal) that has no lore implications (WTF is the deal with ascended nonsense anyways).

............ ..................

........

...not so fun alas....

aaronautumn3 votes

people who like the old lore will never be pleased. riot shouldn't even bother trying.

Darrosh Jewfist19 votes

I think people who like the old lore can be pleased - but it's going to take a tone of time and effort and actual thought placed into their narrative construction which I feel is severely hindered by their current philosophy of large, impact-heavy lore bursts rather than consistent lore buildup.

Then again, if Riot exists solely to make money then they should just scrap the narrative department altogether.

Sharjo2 votes

Then again, if Riot exists solely to make money then they should just scrap the narrative department altogether.

Then they should also scrap their amazing music department since their music doesn't make them jack shit in terms of money.

2nd Fiddle13 votes

I Imagine it helped them sell quite a few DJ Sona skins.

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