Okay, I'm not HUGE into the lore, but even I think Ekko's…

Lao Fu the Tiger · 2015-05-15T21:32:06.926Z

TL;DR: Ekko lore verdict: I'm disappointed. Be forewarned, I may be in complete ignorance since I haven't kept up with the way lore has been delivered lately. These are just my random thoughts. A prodigy from the rough streets of Zaun, Ekko manipulates time to spin any situation to his advantage. Using his own invention, the Zero-Drive, he explores the branching possibilities of reality. As well as experimenting with multi-dimensional probability, Ekko spends his days running wild with the other lost children of Zaun. Though he revels in this freedom, when there's a threat to his friends, he'll endure anything to defend them. To the unknowing observer, Ekko accomplishes the impossible with ease, time and time again. I'm not huge into lore, I don't really keep up with it, and I don't know a lot of the story. I casually read pages of lore to see how my favourite champion fits into the story, and that's about it. I would assume the majority of players fall into this category, with a select few who know zero about lore and a select few who keep up with it extensively. From an average player, excited to learn the background of a character in which I was genuinely interested, I feel disappointed. I'm not hating on Riot. They've done great stories, great lore in the past. But this, this is just... sad, almost. Let me sum up what my thoughts were after the cinematic: Who is Ekko? What is his story? Why is he fighting? Why did the memorial breaking upset him so much? What's the story behind his invention? Allow me to now interpret Ekko's lore in what we call * layman's terms, the simplest and most straightforward, simple, zero-depth way to explain something.* Ekko manipulates time to spin any situation to his advantage. He travels in time to turn any situation in his favour. Too bad this is nearly word-for-word what hte lore says. Using his own invention, the Zero-Drive, he explores the branching possibilities of reality. He invented the Zero-Drive. Cool. Why? Where did this idea come from? I don't understand. I thought there'd be more to this device than simply "kid invented it." Ekko spends his days running wild with the other lost children of Zaun. He plays with his friends. Though he revels in this freedom, when there's a threat to his friends, he'll endure anything to defend them. He exercises basic human decency by helping friends in need. He'd catch a grenade for ya, throw his hand on a blade for ya, and jump in front of a train for ya. Who cares? Most people would stand up for their friends (unless they have crappy friends). So out of what I consider to be the 5 biggest questions that come out of his trailer alone, a whopping 0 were answered. Why not? I don't understand. I'm not huge into the debacle between Caitlyn, Vi and Zaun. I enjoy hearing the big picture, but I haven't done extensive reading into those places, but I can definitely imagine that people who DO invest their time into those cases have a plethora of other questions that, unfortunately, will be unanswered.

Lao Fu the TigerMay 15, 20157 votes

{quoted}

The paragraph you're seeing there is meant to be a brief summary, not a biography. Think of it more like the blurb to Ekko rather than anything substantial. Longer more indepth lore is to come later, depending on when Riot fixes the issues they're facing.

Also your last paragraph's been the case for many here for months now. This isn't actually new and it's been going on since last September.

Didn't know his stuff was called the Zero Drive though, gonna have to remember that one.

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure how they did things now. I'm just new into learning champions' backgrounds, and I hadn't really paid attention to how these bios were done since I haven't kept up with recent bios.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is something like this. I love Swain. When I read his little blurb, it doesn't dive into details, and it doesn't really tell a ton about his background. But the blurb is surrounded in mystery and invites you to want to learn more about his person. Ekko's just... doesn't to me.

I dunno. Call me a fool.

SharjoMay 15, 201530 votes

To kinda expand on what's happening so you're in the know, Roit decided to change their approach to writing and displaying lore, which led to them making these short blurbs, by short blurbs I mean the single paragraph bios like Ekko's here. The intention was for lore to be put on the website and for the client to have this small blurb with a link to more lore on that champion including longer stories and whatever else they have in store.

Problem is the website's broken as shit! Even now you can actually go to the champion pages and visually see where things are broken. They've been working on a fix and are committed to this change since it's been 9 months since these problems reared their ugly heads.

Also as a HUGE note, if you see "League of Legends" actually in a champion's bio, then you're seeing one other problem; with the change in writing and direction they also removed the League of Legends from the universe itself, so the organisation called the Institute of War that ran the League of Legends in the League universe ain't a thing anymore. What you can basically take away from this is the following:

Everything released from and including Darius to now is totally canon and totally what it's supposed to be.
If a champ has lore that has a line like "and then they went and joined the League" almost like a footnote at the end, you can remove that line and it should be fine. There might be some changes to these guys in the future but for now it should be ok. A prime example is .
are in a weird situation where their lore hasn't been updated for this change, yet they're kinda intrinsically tied to the League even though it doesn't exist, making them exist in a weird limbo. Some of them (Nautilus and Orianna) aren't in as bad a spot because of the nature of their stories, but suffice to say their lore's a bit iffy and you might want to avoid diving in to that for a while if you're get invested in stuff.

Sorry for the info dump but from what I gathered from your post I figured getting this stuff out of the way right now would be best. Hopefully this made some kind of sense, if not I'll figure out a better way of putting it.

MatezoideMay 15, 201517 votes

It is never coming.

SharjoMay 15, 20159 votes

Says you.

MatezoideMay 15, 201523 votes

It is common sense. If you wish to have faith on the ''lore team'' by this point, be my guest, but it is never coming.

The very fact we still have several champions' lore mentioning the IoW, after the retcon happened months ago, is a clear signal they just dont care anymore.

SharjoMay 15, 20157 votes

Fine, be a pessimist. I really don't care. If you've given up then go, find a new outlet, a new story to get invested in. I'm fine waiting.

Auz the RipperMay 16, 201527 votes

I'm not taking sides but There's a fine line between a pessimist and a realist

Ulquiorra995May 16, 20158 votes

Then, friend, you will wait a loooong time.

Shurima was when? A year ago? Still no updates. Singed's lore? Outdated for whooping 2.5 years.

If there was a problem of technical nature like they state, any half-competent technician would have fixed it by now. And I don't think problem is lack of competent technicians at Riot - real problem is lack of remotely competent writers.

JChaosMasterMay 16, 20159 votes

{quoted}

It is common sense. If you wish to have faith on the ''lore team'' by this point, be my guest, but it is never coming.

The very fact we still have several champions' lore mentioning the IoW, after the retcon happened months ago, is a clear signal they just dont care anymore.

ezreal and amumu can speak to that. Both had great Lore then it got gutted by Azir the Lore steal.

AnidanMay 16, 20156 votes

Don't worry, Shurima ( Azir ) wasn't even the first Great Retcon. There was also The War of the Freljord: The War That Never Ended But Changed Some People's Lore Anyway! Most notable to some was Trundle. I personally didn't give half a crap because I found his old lore to be kinda "meh" personally, and his story already kind of had a resolution. The one loose end was "he needed to find a cure for all that leprosy" and that's... pretty much all he had left before he became a closed story. He was really, really restricted in terms of potential in my opinion.

I suppose I didn't even say what he once was: He was a troll with supernal regeneration born to a cursed clan of trolls. They were cursed with leprosy, and so they did something or other (it's been so long I've honestly forgot) and gave Trundle the entirety of the curse of the village, so he was constantly regenerating through the leprosy. He sought a cure and went to the Institute to seek one from them. Compare that to what he is now.

And that's not even the beginning.

I had hope in the Lore Team, now it's still there, but shrunken and overshadowed by quite a bit.

Vesper117May 16, 20156 votes

Riot complained about champions having closed stories with nowhere to go...but what have they done with the old champions since the lore was changed?

Past a few videos that could be done with the old lore I've yet to see anything to justify why they've killed the lore. They should've left it as it was until the new system was working and then swapped them. What they've done is tear down the lore with nothing to put in its place which just pissed everyone off (Not to mention the lore rework was really unneeded, fans have come up with solutions that fix the issues and keep the League as it was).

NorthernDruidMay 17, 20152 votes

No, see, they justified it by showing that they were factually wrong about their own lore.

Like really, really easily proved wrong about their claims factually wrong.

GenoXxMay 16, 20159 votes

Dude, those longer bios havent even came for the shurima retcon yet....come one now. It's not happening.

BhargoMay 16, 201511 votes

Lore has been "coming soon" for years now. Don't hold your breath on Riot actually making more than one lazy paragraph

LuciferMay 16, 20156 votes

{quoted}

The paragraph you're seeing there is meant to be a brief summary, not a biography. Think of it more like the blurb to Ekko rather than anything substantial. Longer more indepth lore is to come later, depending on when Riot fixes the issues they're facing.

Also your last paragraph's been the case for many here for months now. This isn't actually new and it's been going on since last September.

Didn't know his stuff was called the Zero Drive though, gonna have to remember that one.

Fixing issues is becoming an increasingly daunting task when every new champion needs to be fixed + All the old ones + all the old ones they decided to redo "briefly" because... reasons. Shurima is still a mess.

RiotRiot ShadowStormMay 17, 201527 votes

The paragraph you're seeing there is meant to be a brief summary, not a biography.

Sharjo, thank's for pointing this out. I really want to highlight this - we've been using these short summaries in the client since Azir. These go out with the champ when they go to PBE, much like other champion game/client assets.

But we have ALSO released longer-form stories outside of the client, generally around the time of the champion's release:

Azir : Arisen | Shurima Event Storyline Kalista : Invocation | The Pledge RekSai : Scourge of the Desert Bard : Mountain

This also happened with Braum, along with his longer in-client bio: The Feats of Braum

I get that there are mixed feelings on this approach, and differing opinions on how successful these kinds of stories are. Those are fine and valuable discussions to have, and I don't want to downplay those feelings at all. But the fact remains that while we're only putting short bios in the client, we have still been releasing other story components for the champion.

Ekko was announced just this week, and has NOT been officially released yet. It is too early to claim that this is all he's getting, so can we please lower the pitchforks until Ekko actually releases, and THEN assess the quality of his lore?

StarlighteMay 17, 201542 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=00000006,timestamp=2015-05-17T00:15:23.274+0000) It is too early to claim that this is all he's getting, so can we please lower the pitchforks until Ekko actually releases, and THEN assess the quality of his lore?

How about this. WE won't be snide and condescending when the Narrative team begins to fulfill their promises of communicating with the community, which they are purposefully avoiding, because heaven forbid "The most player focused game company in the world." seems to be ignoring their fans.

You are quite brazen to come in here and wave the flag of "How dare you assess the quality of lore until it's finalized!" when for 9 months, since the announcement of the retcon, we still don't have a fully fleshed-out world.

Do you think we are a meek fanbase to be trampled over because you feel we're too harsh on lore that's not-yet-released? Look at YOUR ENTIRE WORLD right now. 90%+ of it IS NO LONGER CANON!

There are problems with the reaction. There are problems with the harsh nature of how we react to anything currently released. But the true issue lies in Riot refusing to interact with their community, and further perpetuating the continuous negative response to any lore released today. The problem is cyclical, but the community can't force Riot to interact with us, ergo it is Riot's responsibility to stop the cycle.

Riot ShadowStorm I am severely disappointed with the tone you brought to the discussion. Shame on you for talking down to us as if we are overreacting to something Riot has not systematically disappointed us with.

67450548_DELMay 17, 20152 votes

[deleted]

StarlighteMay 17, 201510 votes

{quoted} snip

Feel free to follow my second link. I've tried, in excess, to be polite and courteous. To give Riot the benefit of the doubt, and to wave off their silence for a myriad of reasons.

Riot has painted themselves into this corner, not the community. Please don't White Knight a game company that has failed to live up to its own manifesto, it's unbecoming of you.

Additionally, you will note that in my posts about lore I have never, and I emphasize that vehemently: I have NEVER proposed to speak for everyone. But feel free to straw man away if it so pleases you.

At the end of the day, we can only voice our opinions, and it is Riot who will make the ultimate decision. When they make those decisions, and produce content, we have a basic right to disagree publicly and as loudly as we want.

Rand0mH3r0XMay 17, 20157 votes

{quoted}

How about this. WE won't be snide and condescending when the Narrative team begins to fulfill their promises of communicating with the community, which they are purposefully avoiding, because heaven forbid "The most player focused game company in the world." seems to be ignoring their fans.

You are quite brazen to come in here and wave the flag of "How dare you assess the quality of lore until it's finalized!" when for 9 months, since the announcement of the retcon, we still don't have a fully fleshed-out world.

Do you think we are a meek fanbase to be trampled over because you feel we're too harsh on lore that's not-yet-released? Look at YOUR ENTIRE WORLD right now. 90%+ of it IS NO LONGER CANON!

There are problems with the reaction. There are problems with the harsh nature of how we react to anything currently released. But the true issue lies in Riot refusing to interact with their community, and further perpetuating the continuous negative response to any lore released today. The problem is cyclical, but the community can't force Riot to interact with us, ergo it is Riot's responsibility to stop the cycle.

Riot ShadowStorm I am severely disappointed with the tone you brought to the discussion. Shame on you for talking down to us as if we are overreacting to something Riot has not systematically disappointed us with.

I'm very sure that Riot reads posts, but just doesn't comment. Maybe not all of them, but they don't have to put a foot into discussions. I forgot what the specific terminology was for the treatment Riot receives, and how it reacts, but it usually breaks down like this:

All is good, what could go wrong? Growing, expanding, lets all get along! All is so good, I've sung a song! Growing, expanding, what could go wrong?

I'm a troll, I've come for you fun I will not play your game I will not ryhme with your puns! This is so lame I want this game undone I will be here to flame Until you are all gone.

Player, my player what's your request? Skins, Champions, more to digest? I'll respond to your thread Here, here I will listen to this.

This game is frustrating I want it to be fair Fix the matchmaking Or I will not care I will be crying And here I will declare!

Yes, Yes! We will nerf and buff We will make you big and tough Let me know if this isn't enough We will make sure this game isn't rough

I return to troll Having won my bout I will show all the world What I'm really about Fxxx you kid! Quit crying and gtfo!

I'm a player, I've come for justice I want to play the game I want rhymes and puns I love this game I want it better done, I will be here to flame Until these changes are done.

Player, my player what's your request? Skins, Champions, more to digest? I'll respond to your thread Here, here I will listen to this.

This game is frustrating, Trolls in the air Fix the matchmaking I'm pulling my hair I will be typing And here I will declare!

Yes, Yes! We will nerf and buff We will make you big and tough Let me know if this isn't enough We will make sure this game isn't rough

I return to play Having won this bout I will show the world What I'm really about GG WIN EZ You play like a trout!

I'm a troll, born of injustice Akali just bursted me And I was killed by Demacian Justice I hate this game I want my RP back and IP Boosts You are a shame!

Player, my player I've settled your request. Skins, Champions at our best I've responded to your thread! I won't listened to this.

I'm a player, born of here Fiora has countered me And I was killed, too near I hate this game Please I pay RP and IP You listen to this shame!

Player, my player I've settled your request. Skins Champions at our best I've responded to your thread I've listened to this.

They're unhappy We're upset Too much toxicity We need some rest.

WE ARE THE COMMUNITY COME FORTH AND BE OUR SUGGESTIONS ARE WORTHY TO BE IN LEAGUE RITO WHERE ARE YOU? COME HERE WITH ME!!

Nerfs and Reworks Quirks and post-works Hurt and desert Callous and Hardened

Jeddy017May 17, 20153 votes

If I may ask,is there any reason why Riot is so often quiet on the subject of lore?

TerraRisingMay 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

If I may ask,is there any reason why Riot is so often quiet on the subject of lore?

They have nothing to say but "We know you're angry and we know we don't deserve it, but we need more time, trust and patience to get these stories to you."

So, they pick the lesser of two evils, which is to say nothing. It's still pretty evil, if you ask me.

Sneak DogMay 17, 201512 votes

The Shurima event storyline was boring and had a very boring medium. Arisen was great but not really officially released, just put on the forums. Kalistas invocation/pledge told nothing more than the short summary. Scourge of the Desert was about Shurima and Noxus. Mountain wasn't much really, given that we have no context to put it in. The feats of Braum is a nice piece of character building.

I'm not blaming people for assuming this is basically all the lore we're gonna get for Ekko, only Azir and Sion really had more lore than their short bio. Perhaps we'll get it twice or thrice like with Kalista.

(Well, there's also Xeraths modus operandi and main motivation getting changed when Azirs story got released, which isn't helping things much from my perspective. On top of that, the first post-retcon event, Freljord, being all build-up and no conclusion where Trundle got removed and replaced.)

I'm pessimistic about Riots lore and I do believe I have solid reasoning. I'm not going to be excited about upcoming lore. You'll probably just tell us the same shallow character, and (more importantly for me personally) perhaps taking another old champion and changing/replacing it to fit in the new characters lore.

Regardless of it all, it's fair to wait for his official release before judging once again.

RiotRiot ShadowStormMay 17, 201513 votes

Right, I should clarify - I'm only trying to point out the fact that those pieces exist. Whether they're good enough is a separate discussion entirely. It just feels really premature to me to say that Ekko's lore is lacking, and to get really angry about it, when we haven't even released him yet.

TerraRisingMay 17, 201519 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=0000000600040000,timestamp=2015-05-17T02:24:38.177+0000)

Right, I should clarify - I'm only trying to point out the fact that those pieces exist. Whether they're good enough is a separate discussion entirely. It just feels really premature to me to say that Ekko's lore is lacking, and to get really angry about it, when we haven't even released him yet.

Past behavior is an indicator of future patterns. We didn't get much actual content from the recently released champs (Gnar's story was the last one, iirc), so it's safe to assume we're not getting much more out of Ekko.

You can say it's premature, but unless we're getting an unprecedented lore blitz the size of Mt. Targon about Ekko, it's safe to assume that it's not.

RiotRiot ShadowStormMay 17, 201518 votes

Past behavior is an indicator of future patterns.

Sure, that's fair to say. But for an example of where I'm coming from on this... you said earlier that Rek'Sai's piece was something people praised, because (in your words):

it told a story about Rek'Sai (you know, what Narrative is supposed to be doing with these champions?)

That piece was released on December 10 (the day before Rek'Sai was released) - 25 days after Rek'Sai's announcement. I don't think it would've been fair to judge the quality of Rek'Sai's lore without that piece. Maybe people still think it sucks, but at least they think that based on the full thing.

I'm just asking that we do the same for Ekko. Since past behavior is an indicator of a future patterns, there's a good chance something else will be released. Maybe he gets a piece that sucks. Maybe it's amazing. Maybe it's amazing, but answers no questions, and thus people think it was pointless. Maybe he gets nothing at all and I look like a total fool.

I won't predict or promise anything, other than to say that once he's released, I will come back and jump into Ekko lore threads - even if the feelings are still negative.

StarlighteMay 17, 201521 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=000000060004000000010000,timestamp=2015-05-17T03:01:41.667+0000)

Sure, that's fair to say. But for an example of where I'm coming from on this... you said earlier that Rek'Sai's piece was something people praised, because (in your words):

That piece was released on December 10 (the day before Rek'Sai was released) - 25 days after Rek'Sai's announcement. I don't think it would've been fair to judge the quality of Rek'Sai's lore without that piece. Maybe people still think it sucks, but at least they think that based on the full thing.

I'm just asking that we do the same for Ekko. Since past behavior is an indicator of a future patterns, there's a good chance something else will be released. Maybe he gets a piece that sucks. Maybe it's amazing. Maybe it's amazing, but answers no questions, and thus people think it was pointless. Maybe he gets nothing at all and I look like a total fool.

I won't predict or promise anything, other than to say that once he's released, I will come back and jump into Ekko lore threads - even if the feelings are still negative.

Why's a Technical Coordinator the only one diving into these threads?

Where are your colleagues in the Narrative department, and why aren't they defending their work but you are in their stead?

Chromatic EagleMay 17, 20159 votes

Annnnnnd once again we have another problem. Narrative refuses to communicate with us. At best we get vague answers from the AMA, which its current version merges all questions regarding a champion together, making it hard for lore fans to get their questions answered.

Karn BotMay 17, 20155 votes

Heyo, I know that you're not on the lore team, unless lore got changed to be something technical that needs to be coordinated, but I do appreciate you dropping by and just trying to diffuse the situation. I completely understand where both parties are coming from (I very much enjoy the lore... well, the lore that there is) but I also understand that a retcon is a massive project, but to be fair, it HAS been a while.

I feel that a lot of people forget that Rioters posting to the forums is done by their own initiative, and they think that the Reds are just posting to try to make an excuse so they get flustered, hateful, etc. This thread isn't super bad, yet, but there are definitely some people who are very accusatory. This seems to happen whenever a Red posts as you'll see something such as a Red participating in a forum game, and then there'll be a thread about it hating on Reds for posting on forum games instead of say, doing lore or fixing that broke ass shit zed, but they don't take a step back and realize that LITERALLY everyone on these forums is a human, and that includes Reds, and sometimes they just want to jump on the forums to relax and they obviously don't work 24/7. This constant negative attitude causes, at least I feel that it would cause, a lot of Reds who want to join in the community but don't because of the backlash it can cause, and that makes me sad. I really wish that people would take a step back, and realize that just because a Red posts on something, doesn't make it THEIR fault or mean that they are not doing their jobs. They are standing at the bottom of the castle with pitchforks, knives, torches, and other weapons, and then they wonder why the Reds won't come down to 'talk' with them.

As it's been said multiple times in this thread, past actions predict future patterns. That's exactly why the Reds don't post more often, for each time they do on a controversial subject they get constant flak. If you put your hand on a hot stovetop and burned yourself, would you touch it again unless you KNEW it had cooled down?

tl;dr People keep using a pitchfork metaphor, but do you know what the 'put your pitchforks down' statement is regarding? It's a statement referring to mobs and their pitchforks and torches, which means saying that you will put down your pitchforks when stuff gets done is you guys admitting that you are just going along with a mob mentality, and that gets violent, hateful, and lacks logic. So please, for the sake of everyone here, can we actually escape the mob mentality please??

P.S. I've played Ekko on the PBE, super fun although a tad powerful (That R burst ;-;), and I actually can't wait to see if he does get more lore, I really do hope the Lore team is 'still a thing' and that we're not being led on, but I suppose time will tell. Patience is a virtue after all, but it's not a limitless resource

Chromatic EagleMay 17, 20154 votes

All departments at Riot get some flak for something. Probably even the Sounds team. They continue posting though. It's hard not to accuse them of anything since almost the entire controversy has been a problem of their own making, one that they keep promising to fix, and one we keep enduring for months going on towards a year. I think even Riot has said that they'd rather have angry, passionate fans, instead of those who don't care. If they continue this pattern, they won't have many lore fans left.

Karn BotMay 17, 20151 votes

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be passionate and outspoken about it, I'm saying they need to do it in a way that promotes interaction, and not be like a mass of angry, blameful voices. A couple of days ago, how many "Ekko's lore sucks" threads did you see?? I saw at least 5-6 on just the front page. That's what I'm talking about, it's just a massive train of hate and blame.

Chromatic EagleMay 17, 20154 votes

I'll admit fans can go too far. Those death threats are a shame to the community and a highlight as to how toxic players can be. That may be why I'm not as offended seeing "X lore sucks" threads. It helps us to vent our anger, and to be honest, having to not only explain to Riot again why we're angry, but to see their responses (empty promises, dismissive pleas to be calm, projecting their views of the lore onto the fans rather than simply ask us how we see the lore), almost makes me feel justified in being snarky.

TerraRisingMay 17, 201518 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=000000060004000000010000,timestamp=2015-05-17T03:01:41.667+0000)

Sure, that's fair to say. But for an example of where I'm coming from on this... you said earlier that Rek'Sai's piece was something people praised... That piece was released on December 10 (the day before Rek'Sai was released) - 25 days after Rek'Sai's announcement. I don't think it would've been fair to judge the quality of Rek'Sai's lore without that piece. Maybe people still think it sucks, but at least they think that based on the full thing.

I'm just asking that we do the same for Ekko. Since past behavior is an indicator of a future patterns, there's a good chance something else will be released. Maybe he gets a piece that sucks. Maybe it's amazing. Maybe it's amazing, but answers no questions, and thus people think it was pointless. Maybe he gets nothing at all and I look like a total fool.

Out of context, Rek'Sai's supplementary lore was amazing. It also came off the heels of Sion's reworked story (which was mistakenly added to the client instead of the short story that should have been placed there).

Now, to put her lore release in context:

For those 25 days, we were waiting for some additional context from Narrative, something beyond that "The Terror Beneath" cartoon that was released on November 24.
We were still three months off the still controversial Retcon announcement (which removed with nothing to show but empty promises, undeserved requests for patience and time and the barest acknowledgment that Narrative screwed up their relationship with their fans.
The Narrative lead at the time, Tom "TommyGnox" Abernathy, leaving Riot for dubious reasons when he was less than willing to follow up on promises to communicate.
A Narrative writer giving a very inappropriate joke about the recently released Shurima short bios and the unfortunate backlash that led to her getting death threats from some very evil people.
Years of silence and neglect from the various Narrative teams since the Karma Rework and the removal of the Journal of Justice and League Judgments, followed by lies about communicating more, empty apologies and no real content to show for it.
Freljord. (Enough said, right?)
The removal of 15 full champion bios (Shurima and Shadow Isles) with no timeline of when they would be replaced or revealed.

And with all that baggage Riot and Narrative heaped upon this long neglected, poorly treated fanbase (and that's just the surface of what Riot's done to this group of fans)... there was still some acknowledgement from most people here that Rek'Sai and Sion were really good.

Two successes out of all that abuse? That's not much to hang on your wall, as it were.

I won't predict or promise anything, other than to say that once he's released, I will come back and jump into Ekko lore threads - even if the feelings are still negative.

To do what, exactly?

If Ekko's lore is as good as Rek'Sai, or merely better than Bard's, are you going to come here and say "See, I told you guys to wait!" We get abused enough with Narrative's silence and Riot's overall disdain for their lore fans. It wouldn't help if you came in with attitude of smugness, whether you intended it or not.

And if Ekko's story is not good? Are you really going to take time out of your day to dive into already hostile territory, knowing you're going to get dunked into this cesspool of brutality and frustration that your employers created?

EverTokkiMay 17, 20152 votes

I don't need anything anymore; at this point I'd be happy if they actually canoned everything, removed all the lores, and started from scratch. Champion by champion.

ImpetualMay 17, 20153 votes

Riot here's the thing. We can't look to past behavior as an assurance to quality anymore.

In the past year or two, the Narrative team has gone through a lot of changes. It may not even be called the narrative team anymore, but something called the foundations team, who could be completely different people.

We don't know what is going on with Runeterra's Story. We don't know exactly who is involved with it's developmentw, or what those people's priorities are.

Because of this, we can't trust them.

Riot isn't being transparent with their development process anymore, and there is probably a good reason for it.

Lemons22May 17, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=000000060004000000010000,timestamp=2015-05-17T03:01:41.667+0000) I don't think it would've been fair to judge the quality of Rek'Sai's lore without that piece. Maybe people still think it sucks, but at least they think that based on the full thing.

Full thing? I had no idea that a Rek'Sai story even existed...you know what I want? I want to be able to pop open my client, go to a champions' page, click "lore" and actually read some freakin' lore...not just a short description of the champion. Forcing me to track down a character's lore somewhere out on the interwebs is no bueno.

Seriously, you guys are starting to remind me of Blizzard in that Blizz has a really bad habit of hiding important lore points in media that lies OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. People hate that. If you're going to write a goddamn story about a champion then copy/paste that shit into the client or at least provide a link like "Read more about Rek'Sai here!" This isn't rocket science.

Chromatic EagleMay 17, 20153 votes

Oh no. As much as I criticize Blizzard on things, at least when they put lore in outside sources, you get actual lore. To the point where I feel like they're justified in doing what they do. This is honestly one of the worst handlings of lore I've seen.

StarlighteMay 17, 201534 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=0000000600040000,timestamp=2015-05-17T02:24:38.177+0000)

Right, I should clarify - I'm only trying to point out the fact that those pieces exist. Whether they're good enough is a separate discussion entirely. It just feels really premature to me to say that Ekko's lore is lacking, and to get really angry about it, when we haven't even released him yet.

And how else do you expect us to give feedback especially if it is before release? The PBE is intended for feedback yes? If it is only intended for particular types of feedback (i.e. gameplay/balance) than why put lore on there to begin with?

And if we're not to give feedback for lore until it is totally finalized and fully released, how are we ever to convey to Riot that we believe they're going in a wrong direction?

Riot ShadowStorm, you're fighting a cause of "don't judge a book by it's cover" but right now we're already several pages into the book. The book being a metaphor for Riot's recent lore releases, and before we even turn the page (Ekko's full lore release) we're not really happy with the direction it is going.

It isn't premature. It is long overdue.

TerraRisingMay 17, 201516 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=00000006,timestamp=2015-05-17T00:15:23.274+0000)

Sharjo, thank's for pointing this out. I really want to highlight this - we've been using these short summaries in the client since Azir. These go out with the champ when they go to PBE, much like other champion game/client assets.

But we have ALSO released longer-form stories outside of the client, generally around the time of the champion's release:

: Arisen | Shurima Event Storyline : Invocation | The Pledge : Scourge of the Desert : Mountain

This also happened with Braum, along with his longer in-client bio: The Feats of Braum

Let's start from the top, then:

Azir's longer story was released on the boards (along with Xerath's story, which destroyed the original champion), not the client or the Champion page on the website. Unless someone was already here or read it on one of the many "Surrender@20" LoL news sites, they wouldn't know it exists. The videos you refer to also were more about the Ascension FGU, Sivir and Cassiopeia than Azir, so those don't really apply.
Kalista's story, like Azir's story, was released on the boards. Same rules apply. The video was just a poor summary of the lore itself and there's a disconnect between the two.
Rek'Sai, iirc, was the only one that people around here praised because it told a story about Rek'Sai (you know, what Narrative is supposed to be doing with these champions?).
Bard's video tells us nothing about him, other than "Look, we got the "Last Airbender" cartoon people to make us something Studio Ghibli would do!" Other than that and some vague answers in an AMA, we get five sentences that translate to "Bard has a cosmic, secret past."
Braum's little loading screen event, again, tells nothing that we wouldn't have gotten from his lore. You might try to spin this around and say "See, we didn't need any text lore for Braum," but it doesn't work.

I get that there are mixed feelings on this approach, and differing opinions on how successful these kinds of stories are. Those are fine and valuable discussions to have, and I don't want to downplay those feelings at all. But the fact remains that while we're only putting short bios in the client, we have still been releasing other story components for the champion.

Why the hell should one take such a huge priority over the other, to the point where we doubt the existence of Narrative ? There should be a way for the company to consistently release long champion bios and text stories about the world of Runeterra in addition to their character profile cartoons (Jinx music video) and other marketing tools. Riot's full of the best, creative minds in the video game industry. Start putting that creativity towards the lore and not just eSports, skins and live balance.

Ekko was announced just this week, and has NOT been officially released yet. It is too early to claim that this is all he's getting, so can we please lower the pitchforks until Ekko actually releases, and THEN assess the quality of his lore?

Riot ShadowStorm, thank you for putting a name to the condescending, holier-than-thou attitude we've been getting from Narrative over the past three and a half years.

We'll put the pitchforks away when you, Riot's Narrative department, and the entire company for that matter, start treating us like members of the community you claim to be all about, and not like the gutter trash you occasionally throw a glance to from your high ivory towers when we get a little too loud.

How about Riot interacts with us in a meaningful way? How about Riot gets to work fixing their tech issues and getting us the long stories we've been told we would get months ago? How about Riot treats us like they treat other fans instead of sewer runoff?

So thank you, once again, for putting a name to all the crap we've been getting from the company for the past 3.5 years.

JariMay 17, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ShadowStorm,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ql5gi7Ah,comment-id=00000006,timestamp=2015-05-17T00:15:23.274+0000)

Sharjo, thank's for pointing this out. I really want to highlight this - we've been using these short summaries in the client since Azir. These go out with the champ when they go to PBE, much like other champion game/client assets.

But we have ALSO released longer-form stories outside of the client, generally around the time of the champion's release:

: Arisen | Shurima Event Storyline : Invocation | The Pledge : Scourge of the Desert : Mountain

This also happened with Braum, along with his longer in-client bio: The Feats of Braum

I get that there are mixed feelings on this approach, and differing opinions on how successful these kinds of stories are. Those are fine and valuable discussions to have, and I don't want to downplay those feelings at all. But the fact remains that while we're only putting short bios in the client, we have still been releasing other story components for the champion.

Ekko was announced just this week, and has NOT been officially released yet. It is too early to claim that this is all he's getting, so can we please lower the pitchforks until Ekko actually releases, and THEN assess the quality of his lore?

I undestand that, but could you at least on the champion's page have a way to get to these? Newer players easily will miss these, and on the page for them the lore is short.

Okay, I'm not HUGE into the lore, but even I think Ekko's lore is disappointing.

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