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I just realized what the most controversial VGU will be

SaltyToplaneGoat·2/5/2017, 1:03:50 AM·14 votes·2,452 views

The VGU where absolutely no matter how Riot approaches the problem and tries to capture the theme, there will be a not insiginifcant group of players disappointed. I mean, we got whiners all the darn time, but usually only a super-small minority. I mean, I personally love the Poppy and Sion designs and can't understand any hate towards them. Karma on the other hand... (I have not forgotten about that one Riot). However, Karma's lack of theme (or at least lack theme that translates well into gameplay) is a small problem when compared to this guy:

Chogath

Cho'Gath, one of THE oldest champions. And unlike old karma, this fellow has a TON of people liking him (at least when compared to old Karma, I don't really see him much nowadays either. However, he's not totally inexistent...).

The problem with Karma was a total lack of theme. Cho'Gath however is worse: a horrible theme bad to expand on. He's just "the monster character" - at least that's what he was designed to be when league didn't even have 50 champs (weird times to remember I tell ya). The gentleman-aspect was only later added in with a joke skin...

I mean, just LOOK at him: even his design looks like a cheap clunky knock-off, like an american Zergling (meaning a very arrogant stance when talking about everything that is not his homeplace and being in a position of high power despite having questionable leadership skills and qualifications. Also, his main gameplay theme is getting fat by using questionable food sources.)

Now on a more serious note: Cho'Gath does not fit with the current Void designs, not thematically or visually. Every Void-born hungers for something, matter KogMaw information Velkoz perfection Khazix ... and then there is this big guy who is supposed to be the big boss of the pack, and he's just... hungry? For, like everything material? That's Kog'Maw's thing ya know? (on a side note, the concept of an energy-absorbing voidborn might be interesting too. As a support maybe?) The widest you can stretch it is a "hunger for power", but even that is too general. And if there's a big bad hunger behind everything, then that's his boss, not Cho'Gath himself.

And on a gameplay side, we all know how clunky the old guy is and that he neither plays like a big fearsome beast, nor like anything Void-related.

The only core aspects worth preserving in this design are "big & smart monster with a dash of purple", but that alone does not make for an intruging and interesting design. If anything, it is WAY too vague, especially when compared to Sion and Poppy, who also had most of their stuff changed, but their core identity had enough meat on it to make it work. Cho'Gath's doesn't. There is too little form a thematic side, an too much generic and totally replaceable stuff from the gameplay side.

No matter how this VGU turns out, it either develops nothing and is a disappointment, or it changes absolutely everything and these boards will probably go up in flames (as they always do, just worse) unless the rework is a design-masterpiece. This might also be the reason to why he's not #1 on the priority list. Sure, some also need it more, but I guess no one at Riot know what to do with the guy, while at the same time the pressure is quite high. No matter what you do, unless it is that one perfect solution, everything you can do is wrong. I can totally understand trying to avoid that problem, but sooner or later we're gonna run out of other champs to rework and we will have to deal with him...

32 Comments

Sharjo2/5/2017, 1:51:56 AM18 votes

From a narrative perspective I feel like Cho'Gath's always had huge potential that's never really been explored properlly. I've always seen huge potential in the idea of Cho'Gath basically being Void Smaug (Hobbit movie esque Smaug) in that he's an incredibly intelligent and charismatic in a way that totally compliments his monsterous nature. He laughs at your feeble attempts to fight him, he's supremely confident to the point of almost coming off as arrogant, but you know that he's wholly deserving of the praise. He delights in seeing tiny, pathetic mortals squirm and suffer beneath his enormity. I could see him playing off of Aurelion Sol to a degree, but in contrast to the star forger where he's up his own arse but in a sort of matter of fact way, Cho'Gath's very much about rubbing it in that everything below him is inferior. Where as Aurelion Sol might smirk or raise an eyebrow at mortal highjinxs, Cho'Gath would just laugh it up.

Basically he's an arse, but a terrifying one that makes you shit yourself just from beholding him.

I could definetly see them playing Cho'Gath as a very much aware and active player in the Void's over all strategies. Unlike his fellow Void champions, who all have their very specific ways of going about things, I always got the impression that Cho'Gath was more aware, more concious of who he was and what his goals were, and that perhaps unlike other Voidborn who work towards the benefit of the Void, Cho'Gath's goals might be more personal, or perhaps he's the one who decides what's best for the Void; one of the big names or maybe just one of many Voidborn created long ago, but one who survived, grew, learned and became a deadly weapon and a deadly intelligence as well. Perhaps he's dwelled in the ruins of Icathia for centuries or even wandered Runeterra in secret, observing the world as it developed and changed, slowly preparring for the time when the Void can push in full force to Runeterra.

Overall there's things I'd like them to explore with Cho'Gath that I feel would be really cool points:

  • Insidious evil monstrosity

There's nothing redeemable about Cho'Gath in any way, be it his looks, purpose or attitude.

  • Ancient Voidborn

Cho'Gath's an ancient terror. Perhaps he's seen Runeterra before, or perhaps he's been there for a long time. Perhaps there's even legends of the terrifying monstrosity known as Cho'Gath, who ravaged Runeterra's people in ages past.

  • Not simply a weapon

He's intelligent and has motivations and goals beyond what his kin usually have. He's not bound by a single directive; he's willful, prideful and very, very driven.

  • Stupidly powerful

If he's not the most powerful among the Voidborn champions then I'ma be super dissappointed.

Just some musings on my part but yeah, there'll be high expectations from everyone going in to a Cho'Gath VGU, but for me I'm just focused on how he fits in to the Void's overall narrative, and I feel like there's huge potential for making him a real serious player in that game.

DwarvenGiant2/5/2017, 1:53:29 AM8 votes

IronStylus used to say how, when they'll eventually update Cho'Gath, he'd like to turn every hint of Kaiju he already has up to eleven- He wanted him to be the Kaiju monster of League, the biggest Terror on the Rift that will require the whole Mecha squad to be taken down (even though the only Mecha skin at the time was Kha'Zix).

What do I think? I think it depends on his new direction in Runeterra's story. I think he should be the Void beast that is hungry for TERROR, where he'll be a (literally) huge cause of terror by himself (as his current title suggests), but with the personal goal of unleashing the whole Void onto Runeterra for MAXIMUM TERROR which he'd be able to feast on (until, of course, nothing remains).

I love how, whenever he gets bigger, in-game, his attack range increases until he can launch a mess of Vorpal Spikes onto the whole of the enemy team with ease. I love how slow he looks like when he gets his 6 Feast stacks.

Now, what if his abilities gained increased area of effects but had a (much) slower casting time? It could make him feel even more like the huge, heavy and slow Terror that, with the slightest of effort put into a foot-stomp, could cause a mountain to erupt & bury a village, or a tsunami to swallow the entirety of an empirical capital- And all that, with the screams of hundreds- no, THOUSANDS of helpless and scared people: From the strongest and most trained Juggernauts Noxus has to offer, to the heavily-augmented (and seemingly emotion-less) Piltovan Clan-heads, to the greatest, ghoulish abominations of the Shadow Isles, ALL will scream in ABSOLUTE TERROR as they can barely take in a final breath, out of pure fear, at the very last moments of their miserable lives!

AND ALL THAT, while (the terrorized) knowing that within seconds they will all perish when nothing remains but the haunting echoes of their screams and scared cries- Warlords, maidens, mothers, farmers and children alike.

He should be causing cataclysmic and catastrophic events that will literally shake the face of Runeterra across poor nations that are obscured by the immense shadow of his ugly, twisted foot.

######Ahem, uh, I might have gone a bit too far with this. But, you know, there's no such thing as too far for Cho'Gath- BECAUSE HE'S SO BIG THAT HE'S LITERALLY EVERYWHE- Okay, I'll stop now.

Oleandervine2/5/2017, 10:22:49 PM2 votes

I don't think Cho'Gath will be as controversial as you think. At current, his kit is just a hodgepodge of weird abilities that don't particularly have much cohesion or sense of combo. He doesn't come across as a titanic monster, at least not in design, because the only parts of his kit that fit the "AHH Gojira!" aspect are his scream and his devour, and even then, his scream is odd in that giant monsters don't rely on their vocals to typically do a lot of damage. His eventual kit overhaul in the future VGU, whenever it may be, is only going to piss off originalists who see no antiquity nor flaw with the 6+ year old kit designs in the modern game. Everyone else will relish having Cho'Gath brought into the modern era.

As for Cho'Gath from a lore perspective, he's entirely vague. He's just a terror from the void, with nothing more in-depth than that - he's pretty much steeped in anonymity, and his role as leader of the void creatures isn't very well implied in anything in game about him. They have a LOT of room to rebuild him if that is his intended role in the lore, and any story they go with will be an improvement over vagueness.

In terms of his looks, he looks GOD AWFUL. I can't imagine anyone would be upset if he were resigned visually to fit alongside the likes of Rek'Sai or Kog'Maw, and I can't see many people going off the deep end if he ended up looking completely different, since he now looks more like some weird alien fetus that half grew up in different parts of his body.

Cho'Gath is a lot like Evelynn - saving a few aspects of him, he's pretty much a blank slate in terms of lore, design, and art. He's just so unfocused right now that he can't be controversial because there's not really any conflict of interest that can occur when giving him story and direction.

GreenLore2/5/2017, 11:43:22 PM2 votes

Actually I think the most controversial will be Kayle & Morgana Their lores will likely receive extreme changes(possibly retconning their place of origin) and there'll be likely some controversies about Kalye or Morgana coming off as too good or evil regardless of how they'll be written.

Ralanr2/6/2017, 2:12:50 PM2 votes

I've always seen Cho'gath as a big wig in the void. I bet that a lot of people see Malz or Vel'koz as higher up, but Malz is just a mouth piece for the void and Vel'koz seems to be more focused on gathering data than issuing orders.

Cho'gath though? Well he may not have leadership qualities like Swain or J4, but he's probably one of the strongest void beings around and actually doesn't constantly think to fulfill his main desire (of which I have to assume is consumption). Kha'zix wants to constantly adapt (and kill Rengar), Vel'koz wants to acquire knowledge, Rek'sai is a territory animal, Kog'maw is a baby that eats things, and Malz is listening to the void.

Cho'gath seems more or is depicted as more intelligent (or at least more wise than Vel'koz) than the rest. He wants to devour the world, but he's not going to do it like some simpleton. He's going to enjoy his meal like he's at a fancy restaurant and laugh as the tiny morsels make futile attempts to run or fight. Not even death will keep you from him once he eats you, if my theory of his stomach being a pocket dimension has any credibility.

Though there is a major issue with Cho'gath that makes him too different from the other void creatures.

He's not purple, but red.

Now neither is Koggy, but Koggy is basically a baby and could grow into a purple void monster. Cho'gath is fully grown as far as we know. Now he could be red to symbolize that he's in a whole other class compared to everyone else, but it's more likely that he's red because he was a very early champion.

When he gets a full VGU, I suspect he'll get some purple on him.

LostFr0st2/5/2017, 1:07:38 AM1 votes

They had a mini-rework for Cho'Gath on the Pbe this latest patch. They got feedback on it then pulled it saying they got the info they needed but don't want to ship it like that.

TzQGRUST392/5/2017, 7:57:52 PM1 votes

From a gameplay perspective I feel that he should be a Disrupter mixed with another role like Battle Mage or Juggernaut. I want to preserve Cho'gath as someone who can provide tons of utility and team disruption from mid range, but also as someone who isn't a push over once you get into close range. I think the moment of gameplay that encapsulates what Cho'gath should feel like to play is the moment when you near max range knock up someone using Q and you see the marker telling you that the R will one shot them. You stomp towards them, you are six stacks so each step takes forever as you slowly close in. They try to escape, but they are too slowed from the Q, you start to close the gap inch by inch until finally you smash the R key and they disappear off the map. That is what it means to me to play Cho'gath. Slow, long cooldowns, supremely impactful abilities with enough damage to make aggressive champions like Master Yi at least quickly ponder about whether or not he should try to fight you.

SilverSquid2/5/2017, 10:07:32 PM1 votes

The problem with Karma was a total lack of theme.

Hold on a second. Do you mean Old Karma had no theme, or that the New One didn't introduce sufficient ones?

Veraska2/5/2017, 11:49:14 PM1 votes

Kayle gets less armor or reveals her face for a more expressive model, riot gets accused of sexualizing an older character

Morgana has more clothes then a cardboard skirt and iron push up bra and riots gets accused of appealing to feminist snowflakes

Nobody wins that double update

Mogarl2/5/2017, 5:20:10 PM1 votes

Wow all that and you didn't even touch on the fact that his gameplay is going to disappoint someone no matter what. He's some kind of tanky juggermage, and I feel at least one of those traits are going to end up going when he get's a VGU. Personally while I tend to play him built tanky I think the juggermage aspect is the important bit. Thematically Cho walking into your team to devour your carry before your eyes is very appropriate.

Tormentula2/5/2017, 1:16:22 AM1 votes

I don't think cho's VGU would suck or leave some disappointed based on his background or theme.

What makes cho's VGU tough is his identity... and I know you covered "but he basically is what kog is", but I'm talking gameplay wise:

How many consumption champions can we have?

Right now the theme of "eating" in gameplay belongs to: Nunu Chogath TahmKench

How could riot make cho'gath's theme of consumer of worlds, more personal to him and not other champions?

While yea, kha and kog have the consumer's theme, its not in gameplay its through lore (kog'maw spitting acid to eat his prey later, kha eating to get stronger but never shows this in gameplay) which still leaves cho being the only "true" void eater, but he's not the only eater in the game.

Then there's rek'sai... she kinda eats people i guess. Cho is the terror of the void but I see a lot more people losing their shit over a land shark than bug lord (cookies if you get that reference).

GigglesO2/5/2017, 1:58:50 AM1 votes

I miss old karma... her super shield was legit, and then you also had a heal... the rope thingy was the only thing that really needed to be changed tbh...

Cyber HeroXL2/5/2017, 5:12:06 PM1 votes

one thing they better keep is him being the biggest playable thing ever, if anything comes out that could get bigger than cho, cho will have his size buffed. also maybe have his vision range increase slightly with his size.

RogueWill2/5/2017, 5:16:05 PM1 votes

Expanding on a bad them isn't bad. Just look at DrMundo. They expanded from his bad them from alpha league and he turned out somewhat ok