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A possible connection: Brand and World Runes - are runes sentinent? (Ryze Theory)

SaltyToplaneGoat··9 votes·2,213 views

I just caught up on Ryze's lore (must have missed that back then I guess) and now I wonder: are these runes potentially sentinent?

Let me explain: a rune is a symbol imbued with meaning. Like a word it stands for something. "Life", "Death", "Sun", whatever meaning you might put into such a symbol. HOWEVER, these are "world"-runes, so it might be safe to say that they are symbols of very elemental things: "Light", "Gravity", "Energy", "Order", "Entropy", and whatever aspects the magic of this world has or elements.

And we also know that the Runes tend to corrupt the subconscious of their owners, trying to get them to use it. So the Rune tries to enforce its meaning from a somewhat sentinent basis. But what if the mind of the user would suddenly fall apart? What if the World Rune was so strong and so aware of itself that it could "take over" a human that came too close?

And that would lead me to Brand: a human possessed by something that appears to be a fire spirit, but with powers that go far beyond. He is only focussed on one thing, as if his entire being was centred around one single concept. Or rather, one word... Also, Brand is the No. 1 champion that is related to Ryze on his page. Something similiar might apply to Galio who is also listed as a related champ: he is a one-of-a-kind construct, a golem imbued with magical power - maybe his core is a World Rune?

The question that remains is: how many world runes are there? And what happens if you manage to gather all of them? Do you literally become god? Would they act like the Infinity Gauntlet in the Marvel universe? If yes, then we have a potential for an amazing event going. Not exactly original, but tbh in the genre of superhuman fiction and fantasy it's hard to re-invent the wheel, especially since the genre in the forms as we know it today is almost a century old by now. But if done well it's still awesome.

Also... Ryze might have been a fool to just lock the World Runes away in "unreachable places". Someone people take that as a challenge... Ezreal And he already has a gauntlet...

33 Comments

Solideus3 votes

Cool theory! Not an impossibility, but elemental spirits are mentioned in some of the Shurima stories, and Brand himself is alluded to as the being of fire released to lure Nasus and Renekton away at the culmination of Xerath's plan.

Requiemsfire2 votes

I have a theory that the world rune was used to amplify the magical strength of the spell that transformed the blessed isles into the shadow isles. :O

And that Shurima's Sundisk may also be powered by such similar devices.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Given that the cataclysm mentioned in Ryze's lore would fit into the same category as the devastation of the isles, yeah it might make sense. Especially since the scholars of the isles did the same thing Ryze did: finding dangerous stuff and locking it away. There might have been even multiple runes involved.

Requiemsfire2 votes

One more thing, it's also possible that the world runes and the cataclysms caused by them created the void or at least made a portal to the void. Hence why Icathian/Shuriman desert is a focal point mentioned in lore for the void to have came from.

Ryze also says he's being pursued by something from the darkness or something with malevolent. Which I guess people assume to be something like Nocturne who is I guess rather akin to what you spoke of in your theory.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Actually, I think the Void was not "created". It always existed and exists as long as the world exists.

HOWEVER, the World Runes might be responsible for the boundaries between it and the material realm (also known as reality) to break open. They created the first voidgates so to speak, and now all the beings beyond the veil have their attention directed at this world and try to break through on other spots.

Requiemsfire1 votes

Well the void has developed a kind of hierarchy so it'd be safe to assume that that they spent a long time developing and why sentient beings such as Vel'koz exist. Of course, Riot could extend the world runes plot device to other champions such as Zilean Syndra Lissandra Aatrox Bard when they get a chance to revise some old lore. Another possible location of the world runes, might be the freljord particularly regarding the Frozen Watchers.]

I guess what excites me most about Ryze's lore in particular is that it can be used to set up and tie together the world of Runeterra.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I think it is wrong to view the Void as just another world or parralell universe. The Void is the beyond. There is nothing behind it, no Void-Void. It is mostly immaterial, outside the realms or space and time. HOWEVER, there is not a clear line between real world and total inexistence. It's a spectrum that becomes more "real" the closer it gets to our world until it hits some sort of "wall".

And in the middle of that spectrum lies probably Icathia as a gateway between the two sides.

Sentinent beings in the void have not "developed". Given that it is a "timeless" realm, they have kinda always been there, a series of concepts, maybe even a derivation of a reality. It is fascinating that Void beings, who are immortal and timeless have such an obsession with food, when hunger is actually the driving force of all living things, from the bacteria to the mammal. My theory here is that the monster of the void are indrectly "formed" by life in the real world.

This theory is enforced by the fact that Rek'Sai currently uses human LIFE-FORCE to build a void portal. These things must be connected somehow.

And usually this wouldn't have been a problem, because the monsters are locked out, but since Icathia didn't just broke the lock but rather kicked the entire gate down Runeterra has to deal with it.

Requiemsfire1 votes

Well I believe it's been hinted that the world Runes were in someway responsible for the original formation of the world so it's entirely possible that they could interdimensional rifts, or create an entire new pocket of space or even open up to an entirely different universe. Though I feel the word timeless is more or less used to describe it's unchanging state. Though the voidborn themselves probably evolve over time who learn and gain knowledge as they eat. The void itself could also be an entity rather than another world.

Another notable creature that exists, is probably the ancient beloved magical crystalline scorpions Skarner who have existed underground for a thousands of years only to be awakened by the rune wars though he is definitely not voidborn.

EndGamer111 votes

In the new Universe page for the Void, it is said that the void "is a nightmarish dimension said to exist outside space and time, where terrifying living weapons were wrought to win an ancient and long-since ended war". Therefore, it has probably not always existed.

http://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/region/void

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

It is outside of space and time. Therefore its existence is absolute and has neither beginning nor end.

HOWEVER, the living weapons is an interesting notion. Maybe someone in reality got so pissed he was like "I'm gonna go full Lovecraft on your ass!" and jumped into the void, while doing a backflip and flipping someone off. (Because if you are doing something incredibly stupid, at least do it right, no?)

Skelenth2 votes

Well, the Runes don't necessarily need to be sentient to have influence on their wielder. There are multiple champions that got corrupted by 'having power', rather than the particular power they possess. What would you think someone feels who basically carries are Nuke with him? Some would be afraid, others would accept that gladly. Power brings out the best and worst in us.

As to the meaning of each World Rune; if they are fragments of the power that created Runeterra, I doubt a meaning for each individual runes. They aswell all seem to work similar, since they all seem to be able to devastate really large areas.

I'd say they are just a darn big mass of compressed magic, but I'm unimaginative af and only read the lore, I don't theorize it.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

The question is: is magic to some degree sentinent?

Or, to compare it with life: does it achieve a certain level of sentinence after achieving a certain mass and complexity?

Well, "devastation of areas" can be a quite wide field of situations. A single rune blowing something up is usually just an overload, but the true devastations come from two or more of them interfering and amplifying each other way out of any control or predictability.

Imagine the runes for "Gravity" and "Matter" clashing. Or the runes of "Space" and "Energy". Or "Time" and "Reality" (that one in specific must have created the first void gate). If these concepts were to clash while directed against each other... well, the surrounding area would definetly be screwed or transformed beyond recognition.

Also, individual runes are cool I guess. Better than just having a bunch of generic mgaic stones that all kinda work the same.

Whyte Lyon1 votes

Most want to compare the World Runes to Infinity Stones. Yet I don't think those stones have sentience at all, it was always just a mattr of don't bring them too close together.

The COOL thing about weapons of mass destruction (magical or not) it has always been fear that corrrupts the user, never the weapon/power itself. The weapon might feed off emotion but it doesn't have motivations.

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/sinestro-2-forever-evil.jpg

I will admit however that Riot had confirmed magic to have sentience before:

Just as a secret wants to be told, a spell wants nothing more than to be cast.

Which contradicts the idea of emotion being the influence of corruption.

Stars Shaper1 votes

World Runes seem to be catalysts of immense magic power which might be also able to bend the rules of magic.

My own bit of theory is that WR are also the key to break Aurelion Sol enslavement to Targon.

I don't think that Shurima Sun Disc and Ascension ritual might be connected to them though, Ascended seem to be powered by a pure infusion of cosmic magic focused and channeled on a "worthy" being.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

The "worthy" thing is usually a psychological thing I guess, not much the disk that would judge one. By my theory at least.

But in this universe starlight seems to be charged with magic, and that even includes the sun. So the sun disk is pretty much a giant solar-to-magic powerplant, its power probably caused by its sheer size and not a World Rune.

Requiemsfire1 votes

Well in the end, the sun disc could be or could not be powered by world runes. Personally though I think the Shuriman's would have their own world runes, and the Sun disc is probably one of the most powerful magical devices in Runeterra which did wipe out the entire Shuriman people.

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

I think it would be right to compare the Sun Disk to a gigantic power plant. Imagine a nuclear power-plant blowing up, that's pretty much what happened in Shurima as Xerath's ritual caused some kind of magical meltdown.

Instead of nuclear energy it was running on solar and magic, but that's not really making it more harmless...

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I will tell you one thing.

It would be a pretty cool exoansion to Brands lore.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

He's one of those with really few lore. "He's an evil guy with fire. Also supernatural." That's it.

He really could use some expansions on his story...

Whyte Lyon1 votes

We also know that the Runes tend to corrupt the subconscious of their owners, trying to get them to use it.

I really thought there was a difference between Runes and The Rings of Power from LOTR, perhaps I mislead myself.

P.S. As a Brand enthusiast, I'm not the biggest fan of his lore. Ever since Ivern I feel like his origin is a wee bit too similar to Brand's. I pray Rito updates Brand bio before they give him colour text.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well, "corruption" can have many forms, the desire and thirts for power is only one of them as it is a very human one, and maybe the easiest to understand.

But what if there was constantly a tiny voice in the back of your head, asking you to do something? Like, the desire to see flames? A tiny voice that makes everything seem mudane apart from the joyful flickering of flames? That's how it could be in Brand's case. And of course there are many different variations of this thinkiable.

Whyte Lyon1 votes

But what if there was constantly a tiny voice in the back of your head, asking you to do something? Like, the desire to see flames?

######TL;DR: IDK what Rot should do with Brand's origin but I would take most other things over that (sorry if any of this sounds aggressive). I will admit first that trying to explain or justify how corruption (in the magical sense) works opens up a can of worms that in most cases ends up contradicting itself.

Anyway, in all likelihood you're totally right about Brand, tho I'm yet to be convinced that he is an host (Eg. like an Aspect) for a WRune and/or just under the influences of one. Brand's character is already one dimensional in nature and your theory only enforces that upon him.

In most cases I dislike the idea of (insert random evil) magic being able to directly influence its host/s. Because when that happens your antagonist is no longer a villain, instead they become just a victim or pawn to this higher force. "Excuse me sir but why did you just kill those innocent people?" _ "CAUSE THE VOICES TOLD ME TO! Mwahahaha."_ Unless this character is mentally unstable, that's not sufficient or even engaging character development.

All and all I will be happy with what ever lore he gets updated with, even if it remains much the same. (Not that you asked) But if it was me I would fully reinvent his lore, tho I doubt Riot will.

Sancre1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PbymBZXZ,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T06:16:55.902+0000)

######TL;DR: IDK what Rot should do with Brand's origin but I would take most other things over that (sorry if any of this sounds aggressive). I will admit first that trying to explain or justify how corruption (in the magical sense) works opens up a can of worms that in most cases ends up contradicting itself.

Anyway, in all likelihood you're totally right about Brand, tho I'm yet to be convinced that he is an host (Eg. like an Aspect) for a WRune and/or just under the influences of one. Brand's character is already one dimensional in nature and your theory only enforces that upon him.

In most cases I dislike the idea of (insert random evil) magic being able to directly influence its host/s. Because when that happens your antagonist is no longer a villain, instead they become just a victim or pawn to this higher force. "Excuse me sir but why did you just kill those innocent people?" _ "CAUSE THE VOICES TOLD ME TO! Mwahahaha."_ Unless this character is mentally unstable, that's not sufficient or even engaging character development.

All and all I will be happy with what ever lore he gets updated with, even if it remains much the same. (Not that you asked) But if it was me I would fully reinvent his lore, tho I doubt Riot will.

Brand isn't a victim, nor bad (at least thats what it thinks to himself), right now he is doing good, he wants to purify the world, but by flames and searing fire, so, for every fire creature is good, but the rest its quite evil. But oh well, leaving this aside, Brand's lore is due to be rewritten, as he seems to be related to ancient Shurima as the fire being that they had to subdue

Whyte Lyon1 votes

Not gonna lie im kinda offended that you clearly misread what I was trying to say before. So I guess I'll return the favor by re-explaining myself.

instead they become just a victim or pawn to this higher force.

I just used the term "victim" loosely because they are generally related to someone being impacted by another's actions and/or manipulations.

Brand isn't a victim, nor bad

I myself described Brand as an ANTAGONIST it means "a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something." Even if X character has a noble cause doesn't make any of their actions justifiable. And that my friend is exactly what Brand is, an Antagonist.

Sancre1 votes

Well, i'm don't think i misread what you said, just forgot to mention it, but sorry for offending you.

For me, being a pawn means being obliged to do something, but Brand isn't, he is just a fire being that took a body, and what remains of the unlucky human that he posessed, is nothing but an empty shell (Like Pantheon... even more reasons to give him a new story), being a pawn to something is in my opinion more like Jhin, he knows is bad, he wish he was able to stop killing and mutillating, but it feels so good that he just can't help it, he just have to keep doing it, making art, for every time his victims cry in fear, he rejoices, he is but a slave to the cruel boss his mental illness is, but he sure does loves it.

for me, Brand isn't a victim, nor a pawn, he is the higher force, poor Kegan...well, yes, he is quite the victim, but who knows where he is right now

Well, you have reason on that last one, Brand is an antagonist by now, like almost every champion, what he can become in the right hands its another story (literally)

Sancre1 votes

It would be quite interesting, both for Brand and Ryze's lore, as if Brand was to be a living being posessed by the "Fire" rune, it would open limitless doors for the creation of many champions, monsters and mechanics, while also giving Brand a true origin, not just a dude that found fire burning in ice and got possessed by that fire.

Unfortunatelly, it seems these runes are just batteries of some kind, magic in stone form, the rune mage itself never makes any reference to any element while using runic magic, he even uses 1 rune, just one, that gives a mana shield upon completion...This could also mean its the "Mana" or "Shield" rune. Also in the World rune incidents Ryze never mentioned anything, just destruction, nothing like a colossal gravity well reducing countless lifes and the city they live in to dust, or people being teleported away, or being killed by random teleportation to some bodyparts, things that would correspond to "gravity" and "space" runes.

Sadly, it seems thats wasted potential, not only for Brand, but what could have been his family (Another runeborn creatures) and minions (Fire runeborn beast). It's worth nothing that exist old skin lines that are based on this, Runeborn Xerath and Earthrune Skarner, but they seem to be left alone, never to be remembered again

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I personally think they are more than batteries. Otherwise we'd just be talking about magic stones, or magic pieces of dirt, or whatever here. A rune however is a symbol imbued with meaning. And magic is meaning enforced in reality, aka changing the world with a certain intention, even if it is primitive.

Well, the only thing Ryze has seen is the end result, when things had returned to "normal" mostly. However, we have at least two incidents of reality-breaching cataclysms, one being Icathia, the other being the ruination of the blessed isles. That's stuff that could be filed under "world rune tier"-level of screw-up.

Also, one interesting thought: what would happen if one was to destroy such a rune? Would that be impossible? Or would it just respawn somewhere else in the world as it's existence is absolute to the reality as we know it? Maybe even inside a living being? Like, let's say, a child? Syndra for example has capabilities that go far beyond that of what a normal human magician should be capable of. A world rune "living" inside her might be a reason for her truly bottomless and unmeasureable power.

Sancre1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PbymBZXZ,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-11-20T01:46:09.550+0000)

I personally think they are more than batteries. Otherwise we'd just be talking about magic stones, or magic pieces of dirt, or whatever here. A rune however is a symbol imbued with meaning. And magic is meaning enforced in reality, aka changing the world with a certain intention, even if it is primitive.

Well, the only thing Ryze has seen is the end result, when things had returned to "normal" mostly. However, we have at least two incidents of reality-breaching cataclysms, one being Icathia, the other being the ruination of the blessed isles. That's stuff that could be filed under "world rune tier"-level of screw-up.

Also, one interesting thought: what would happen if one was to destroy such a rune? Would that be impossible? Or would it just respawn somewhere else in the world as it's existence is absolute to the reality as we know it? Maybe even inside a living being? Like, let's say, a child? Syndra for example has capabilities that go far beyond that of what a normal human magician should be capable of. A world rune "living" inside her might be a reason for her truly bottomless and unmeasureable power.

Well, based on Ryze's login, runes seems to be mostly composed of some kind of engraved crystal, but it would make it quite interesting if they were elemental magic runes.

To me it seems that what happened in Icathia was an aftereffect of the existence of 2 world runes there. I mean, what voidborns wants by eating is both biomass and energy to develop (living beings take energy by metabolizing aliments and other things), so I think that after feeling the pulsating power of 2 world runes so close, and shurima and the sun disc, the portal opening and the swarm of the void were fated. And the Shadows isles incident could as well, those waters were far too special to be just there, they had pure life energy inside

I think that its impossible to destroy them, or Ryze would have done it long ago, or maybe them being energy cores would cause a huge explosion that would destroy lots of km around, for now, its unknown. What would happen if a Voidborn ate one of them... well, thats another terrifiying story.

The Syndra thing could be, but she lacks something that easily identifies her as a runeborn, as does xerath, skarner and even Red and Blue buffs (Brand also have some strange marks on his head that could be some kind of rune), even then, she has quite awesome powers, probably on par with Xerath, so if she have to have any runes, it would be a comon rune (could she be the holder of the "Balls" runes?), same as what gave Zed his dark powers (he is creating shadows, making them solid, and controling them, you can't just do that with instruction from an old scroll in a box, unless that scroll had some kind of complex magic form, or some kind of shadow rune that is hidden behind his body armor)

This rune topic has far too much potential to be left out, but until riot clears it, world runes seems to be just portable nuclear plants, instead of portable elemental energy generators like I would like them to be

bad arcade kitty1 votes

if runes are sentient, then buying them with ip is slavery

but then, we buy champions too who are surely sentient... ahm

Firewood Kit1 votes

Galio's passive is "Runic Skin", I don't know if it has any connection the runes Ryze is searching.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Tbh Galio's lore, ability names and all that is from a time when lore was a vague thing no one knew even existed. It might be an indicator, but not exactly a good or reliable one.

Sancre1 votes

Its better not to take those old data for granted, we are even using runes in our pages to buff our champions, but i really doubt Ryze want those for his collection

1011001110001 votes

Rip Lux then?

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