Question for the Narrative and ChampUp teams

Valor Bot··6 votes·7,540 views

Hi! This is a question for the folks on the Narrative and ChampUp teams. (Feel free to pitch in even if you aren't though.)

When revamping and rewriting the bios and stories for each champion in League, how do you guys on the Narrative team account for any potential changes the Champion Update team may have for a character in a future large-scale rework?

Let's say Galio's VGU had actually been scheduled for another year, but the Demacian update had still occurred today. Do you guys think you would have still given Galio the anti-magic colossus theme/bio/story regardless of him not getting the full attention of a VGU, or did those ideas only come forth as a result of the lengthy and detailed care given to the champion during the development of his full-scale rework?

In that case, could a VGU ever prompt a retcon of lore that's already been updated? For instance, Vayne has a new bio and color text thanks to the Demacian update, but if she were to get a VGU in the future that changed her current theme/narrative, would you guys go back and retcon this bio and color text to fit the new changes, or would you stick to the lore that's already been established for her and only create stories that make sense within that pre-established context?

Thanks and apologies for the wall of text.

23 Comments

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

The answer is: We account for them very carefully. Galio is directly who he is because of the specific attention paid to him on ChampUp. At times, if there is a VGU in the pipe, only rudimentary changes might be made to a bio (such as editing out the IOW). The Worldbuilding team (formerly known as Foundations), is handling the non-ChampUp rewrites of bios, and so they don't want to double up on work, and therefore re-prioritize to Champs that are not in the pipeline for ChampUp.

Just for clarity's sake: Narrative is a craft discipline that works on various teams.

Two of the teams we work on are Worldbuilding and ChampUp. So, it's not as much Narrative being careful of what ChampUp is doing, it's both teams (that include Narrative Writers) collaborating and communicating with each other.

I hope that helps, though I do need coffee.

GreenLore1 votes

So was Eves color text written with her VGU already in mind?

After all it only really shows us her stealth-ability(which was said to likely stay in the game in some form) and gives us just a glimpse of her personality,so I guess it could pretty much remain the same once Eve gets her VGU(maybe change a few parts where her appearance is described)

RiotReav35 votes

It was written before we started working on Eve's VGU. Much longer before. We acually had a lot of debates internally on if we should even publish it our not, being as her lore may change dramatically with her VGU.

In the end we decided to publish it because it was a cool story and we felt it would feel bad if she was the only Shadow Isles champ that didn't get updated. We did add a little blurb saying that she will likely change in the future with her VGU though.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

Has her vgu already started?

RiotReav37 votes

Yes, it started like 4 months ago :)

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I will gladly take even the slightest of teasers for her.

Slyx the Rat2 votes

Dear @Reav3

What about Twitch? :[

He is the only Zaunite champion with no fresh Bio and story. He only got that lame H.I.V.E. report with a dialogue..... He deserve it!

Please dont forget him! :/

nice regards a rat with passion Twitch

edoxbox11 votes

While Urgot? I guess it's already started at least 6 \ 7 months ago, right? P.S: sry for my english, i'm italian and i use google xd

RiotReav33 votes

Early work on Urgot started like 8 months ago, yes.

Yvaelle1 votes

Hint, hint? :D

New Passive: Vicious - Evelynn's basic attacks deal (% of AP) magic damage instead of physical, and Evelynn gains bonus AP equal to her AD.

Q - Hate Spike - unchanged

W - Predator - Evelynn instantly enters Stealth and removes Slows. For the next 2 seconds she gains 175% movement speed and immunity to AOE effects. Cooldown resets on kill or assist.

E - Ravage - Evelynn claws her target twice, dealing magical damage, and gaining bonus attack speed for 3 seconds. Evelynn siphons her victim's pain, gaining a shield for 5 seconds.

R - "Evelynn impales enemies in target area, dealing (% current health) magic damage, and slowing them for 3 seconds" (No longer shields)

So she no longer deals any physical damage (not even AA's) innately and can therefore be itemized against fairly effectively - but she also gains AD=AP scaling, so her AP can get pretty big, and she can build unusual items (ex. BotRK becomes 40 AP for her, and diversifies her damage profile with some physical on-hit). Less common items like Gunblade, Guinsoo's, and Nashor's all become interesting options for her.

She no longer has passive camouflage, which should make her easier to balance, but her buffed W allows her to sprint into lanes with her true stealth right up onto people, giblet them, then instantly stealth and run away again: maintaining that iconic Evelynn playstyle. Yet it's balanceable because now wards work effectively at spotting her around the map, and adjusting the cooldown enables the devs to decide how often she can actually do that.

Her E now has a shield, which makes her a bit better at dueling - but her R no longer has a massive shield - so it smooths out her power curve a bit: less shields in teamfights, more in jungling / dueling.

Elikain1 votes

Anything you guys can come up with for my baby Eve, i'll be OK with it :) If the lore has to change to match the VGU, no problem.

Valor Bot1 votes

Thanks so much for the insight Jaredan =)

I guess my only worry is these bio/story updates restricting the potential for large-scale change in future VGUs. IMO every character deserves to have well fleshed-out and detailed lore like Galio's that realizes their full thematic potential, something which the VGU process can help them do. But if these characters whose VGUs are still a ways away (including those who may not even be on the list yet at all) are restricted by the narratives and themes in their updated lore then I feel that really limits the potential for an awesome future champion/champion update.

Epicurus1 votes

I was wondering about this when Mundo's new short story was released. The good doctor is definitely a VGU candidate, yet he got a full bio and story during the Zaun event. If Mundo's appearance and story change as much as Galio's have, those stories will be invalidated, (which would be a shame as they are hilarious). Maybe this is an indication that Mundo (and other champs in this position) will not be given big story and appearance changes in their eventual updates. Ryze is a good precedent for this.

A lot of work must go into these lore updates, so the writers have had plenty of time to decide what characters fit and don't fit in the updated Runeterra. I really doubt they would release lores that would eventually be retconned again in future VGUs.

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

We certainly try to avoid it, Epicurus.

WarWork2 votes

This is something I was curious about too. Also have u considered using lore to guide an update? the best example I can think of is Gangplank. When he was updated he had his new base and the events of burning tides happened and he got a new look and base while the release skin became, well a skin lol. I really REALLY loved that that was so clever and showed progression.

I think it's a good way to keep characters updated esp one's with healthy kits but in desperate need of visual update (eg.DrMundo or Blitzcrank or Gragas )

Wet Dryman2 votes

It's a shame that Riot stopped doing Visual Updates. It means that champions like Mundo or Gragas that aren't on any GU or VGU lists will look bad for more than next 5 years and it feels bad. They are so cool characters design wise and we probably won't ever see them become something visually great ingame. That just feels bad :(

Xodiathe4bdn11 votes

I also thought this Once all the regions have been updated Will vgu champions be used to move the story of that region along

RiotReav35 votes

It really depends on how long in the future the champion will get a VGU. We want to get all Bios/color texts in the game updated at some point in the future and that will likely happen before we run out of VGU candidates (Which is probably never.)

Since it would be pretty sad to have a bunch of champions without bios/color text we will have to live with the fact that some bios/color texts will have to be re-updated when they get a VGU.

There will be some cases of course were the new bio/color text could work pretty well for the VGU and for those we would probably just update the Art/Design and add a cool short story or something like that instead of a updated bio/color text.

PiltoverPanic1 votes

[deleted]

RiotReav32 votes

It's not like we have a record somewhere that states which bios are deemed "Bound to change" or "bound to not change."

Also if I could predict if Camille will A) get a VGU in 50 years, and B) how it would change that would be pretty impressive. I don't even know how the narrative direction will change for champions we will VGU in the next year.

Generally when we put a team on a VGU they have months of exploration and time to come up with a new art/narrative/design direction for a champion. It's not like we go to a team and say "This is exactly how the champion will change and what the new narrative direction is, now go make it." That would feel pretty bad for the team working on the VGUs.

I'm sure 6-7 years ago when some of the champions that we are VGUing now were originally created the people working on them then couldn't tell you when/if they would get a VGU in the future and how the direction would change.

The only thing I can say is that LoL has and always will be a constantly evolving and changing game. Nothing is set in stone and everything could change.

Hellioning2 votes

Why should I, as a lore nerd, care about a constantly changing lore? Why should I get attached to somethign that might change whenever Riot decides they can do better?

Lord Caelistis1 votes

Because even if it bothers you that the lore gets reworked regularly you can still see old stories as a parallel and valid universe most certainly. It reminds me of Osamu Tezuka's Star System where he told different stories in different settings and continuities with the same casting.

Also given the resources they've put in the new lore I don't see it going away any time now

Hellioning1 votes

I don't care if it's a 'valid universe' if Riot doesn't think so. If they could just change anything I'm attached to at any time, why should I get attached to it?

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