Why even bother with characters like Taliyah, when characters like Evelynn are what people really want?
Judging by the popularity of her visual update before her release, and comparing to all the hate that surrounded Taliyah's release because of her "not sexy" design, I think the people cast their vote.
Turns out it was all true and I was wrong: gamers want sexy hot babes. People like me are a minority not worth bothering with.
Variks the Loyal22 votesWhat's wrong with both?
League is supposed to have a character for all types. Some people like the promiscuous types, and some like the reserved types.
Some older champions that have been sexualized in the past are also becoming a lot more reserved; Lux, for example. Akali's become less sexual (And come her eventual VGU, Nurse Akali will look like an actual doctor, like Surgeon Shen, less like a stripper nurse). Riot's implied that they want Caitlyn to be less sexual. There's Karma and Illaoi and Leona and Quinn and Irelia and Xayah (Some people get it on for Xayah, but she really is one of the more reserved champions), and yes, Taliyah.
Yeah, people like Evelynn, but it's not all just because of her sexuality, it's because Riot is really pushing the limit, here. It's different, it's new, and it's daring, it's stuff most game devs don't try to do. Yeah, games will have sexy champions, but rarely is a champion actually sexual, much less so overtly sexual that it can't help but be exciting because it's so different and unconventional.
witchy punc4 votes"its something most game devs dont do" in response to an incredibly sexual female characters? uhhh ever played literally any other video game? street fighter? bayonetta? darkstalkers?????? LITERALLY ANY GAME?????????
i agree with op completely, we need more female designs that arent pandered around appearing sexually appealing/attraactive. we need female designs centered not centered around their femininity or beauty. if riot is really clear on being original and making characters that are unique, they really need to step it up. many female characters look so similar you cant even tell them apart in different skins from the art alone.
Variks the Loyal4 votesYou must not have read everything I said.
Yes, most games do have sexy characters. But there is a difference between one being sexy and one being sexual. Using League as an example, 
have sexuality as a part of their character and story, while characters like 
were sexy looking just for the sake of being sexy, which is something Riot has specifically tried to stop doing.
Let's use a different example - World of Warcraft. Sylvanas Windrunner is a good example of a champion being sexy without it being sexual. She's got that 'sexy' looking appearance, and is scantily clad, but sexuality isn't a part of her theme or story; far from it, she's a vengance seeker who leads an army of undead people. Alexstrasza, on the other hand, is likened to a fertility goddess; as the Dragon Aspect of Life, it's said that her scantily clad appearance promoted procreation, similar to fertility goddesses in real life mythology.
Riot has done a great job of making both sexual and non-sexual characters as of late. See the females I mentioned - Leona, Quinn, Taliyah, Illaoi, Xayah, all these characters aren't sexy in the traditional sense; someone can find them sexy, of course, but sexuality isn't the implicit thematic behind them.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
BubblyRainbows11 votesAs a female gamer, this is the sort of thing that has long irritated me in gaming in general. However, if you really look at gaming in general and Riot in particular, it's moving in a much less exploitative direction over recent years. For League, I could be wrong, since I don't have the whole roster in front of me to look at in progression right now, but early champions seemed more slanted toward busty, scantily clad female champions, while the last few years are much more varied in overall appearance and style.
As someone else said, most gamers are heterosexual male teens. So the "sexy girl" stereotype plays to many of their interests, and gives Riot a good way to grab the largest gamer demographic. But there have been a lot of different body types and personalities over the last few years, each sexy in their own way (I happen to believe that almost every body type can be sexy). I do think that Riot does a pretty good job of diversifying the body types and personalities among their female champions overall. Eve is the first one in a good while that really jumped out at me as overly sexualized. But... She's a succubus (essentially, if not intended to be literally so). Sexualized is pretty much the defining trait for succubii.
Stars Shaper4 votesEye candy is generally liked be it because of sexyness, epicness or whatever fantasy factor you want to put in it.
Evelynn rework in general has been a discussed and followed topic for a lot of time and the fact that turned out as something at the edge of the game's pegi is just an explosive "Woah!!" that's going to mitigate in few days.
There have been a similar explosion at the new Taric and Galio too, reading too much in it in terms of social/politics is just wrong.
Variks the Loyal1 votesRiot once said, a LONG time ago, that the reason most female character were big-busted was because of the limited graphics engine. In their tests, a lot of people end up assuming a character is male by appearance, and the bigger bust was to say, hey, this character is female.
This happened with Riven's release, originally. It's actually kinda difficult to discern her gender from her old splash art.
Zezockary6 votesTaliyah was a new character when she was released and she wasn't made to appeal to that demographic. Of course people that wan't sexy characters are going to complain when the new champ isn't sexy. That doesn't mean that there aren't people that like Taliyah, that just means that there are some people that don't like her. Personally I think she is fine, not my favorite design but it is definitely good.
The difference between the Taliyah release and this rework though is that there are tons of Evelynn fans that have been waiting a long time for this and they basically delivered everything that Evelynn fans ever wanted. They cranked the themes people like about her up to 11 and made her less bullshit so she can actually be balanced number wise without destroying the entire ecosystem of the game. Everyone is going to rejoice because we have been waiting since like, her last rework (which brought her in the right direction but still broke the game).
Also, in response to Dreamspitter, flat chest is best chest.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesI guess what we have to do is see what the next female character will be.
HalcyonDweller9 votesPersonally I don't think we have to wait and see. there's plenty of evidence to the contrary already. Riot has released several champions that don't fit the 'sexy gamer fantasy girl' identity that you seem so irritated by.
League characters are supposed to be vivid representations of their theme, and Evelynn has always been a seductive and sadistic siren of sorts. Taliyah and Illaoi similarly have their own themes overplayed. Taliyah acts young and naive, and Illaoi is steadfast and resolute. Each character's personality is unique and fits their story and theme.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesMaybe you are correct.
But here's the thing: if I overreact so much, it means there's something wrong with Riot. It's not just about Evelynn. This whole year I felt like the game designs were.... different. Very different from what we had in the past two years.
Hambone20137 votesActually if you overreact that's not Riot. That's you
LunSeiSleidee1 votesIt may not seem like that to you, but trust me, my reaction may be strong, but the impression I got is never wrong.
HalcyonDweller11 votesNo offense but you are among a small minority. The majority of people are pleased with Riot's champion releases and updates in 2017. And the majority of people do not think that there is a problem.
When you claim that Riot has an issue as if your opinion is a fact, it appears unreasonable and rude.
If you want your complaints to be taken seriously at least try a little bit to present them reasonably.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesAh, I love it when someone claims to represent the majority, because this imaginary majority has, how conveniently, his same opinion.
Ralanr3 votesWell considering there aren't large complaint threads on Reddit (which is as major as the league community gets in being vocal) about how Evelynn is sexist design, he/she isn't wrong.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesYou don't seem to understand how majority and minority really works.
Especially in places like this forum and Reddit: both are hiveminds.
Ralanr1 votesYes, both are hiveminds but they are also the only representatives of majority or minority on Riot's choices for the game we can access.
The most accurate representation is Riot's income numbers, which their accountants look at.
Beyond Legends2 votesHonestly do you really think you repersent the majority considering how much downvote you get on these boards alone?
LunSeiSleidee1 votes[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IWYobhKZ,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2017-09-27T20:00:13.143+0000)
Honestly do you really think you repersent the majority considering how much downvote you get on these boards alone?
The difference between me and you: I never claimed to be the majority.
I only ever claimed to be part of the playerbase.
I know that claiming to be the majority is a good way to say "hey developers, do what -I- like!!", but they aren't so naive.
Beyond Legends3 votesWell Riot is hardly listening to you anyways. All you've been doing on these boards is annoy the ever living crap out of the people who browse the boards.
Quite frankly I would just love for riot to release a sexy mage next time just so we can get rid of your from these boards. You're giangantic pain in people side and I there is hardly ever productive discussion comming out of your thread.
LunSeiSleidee1 votes....Then why do you come here specifically to comment on my threads?
If they're so useless and annoying, you can simply.... you know... not comment on them.
But you know there's truth to what I say, that's why you are here. You're angry at me because you know I'm really not wrong. So you can't just ignore me, as you would ignore someone writing something stupid and pointless.
So you don't want me to write here for fear that Riot may actually listen. Because you know what I say, all in all, makes sense.
Oh, and that sexy mage comment of yours? Yes, it's because deep down you think this might happen. Riot has been setting things up recently so that a sexy mage babe as the next champion is.... not unlikely. And you know it too.
Beyond Legends3 votesI comment because I'm tired of seeing the same exact spam on these boards every few weeks. Let's be real here you have been doing nothing but spam since riot actual gave you attention which is was in my opinion a mistake. I was the first to point out your nothing more than a self rightous egotistic twat and It seem that more and more of the board member are coming to the same conclusion
Honestly you can go around and throw your accusation all you want. All it seems to be me is that your lashing out because people have strucked a nerve on your character.
Also shouldn't you be going of complaining about the new animu skinline that is super galaxy?
LunSeiSleidee1 votes[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IWYobhKZ,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T21:14:11.318+0000)
Let's be real here you have been doing nothing but spam since riot actual gave you attention which is was in my opinion a mistake.
I would have done the exact same thing had Riot never answered to me, because I know they read these forums anyway.
But your comment here? It was an epiphany to me.
I do not want the developers to assume I am here because they once replied to me and now I feel entitled to whine or something.
I'm whining because I love the game. But your comment made me understand how this can be perceived differently.
You know what? I'm off. I'll be off for a couple months, seeing what Riot releases next.
All that hate I got kept me here, but I just realized all my complaints can end up being counterproductive.
ModCaptainMårvelous3 votesHey, guys, both of you.
It's fine if you want to discuss the style of Riot's design and how you feel about it. However, can we stop with personal attacks and flaming? This thread of comments is rapidly devolving from "I disagree with your point" to "I don't like you and here is why".
Rather than delete it, I figured I could get you both to calm down. So please chill out and go to your own corners. If you want to keep talking about this, that's fine, but take it to discord, a client, however you'd like to keep arguing with each other.
Other than that, continuing this conversation in public is going to result in some mod action on both ends, ok?
Beyond Legends2 votesI honestly don't like arguing with mods im general, but I have to ask how is the op personal snippit against in league playbase on general not catergorize as personal attacks.
It's one thing claiming you don't like the design and complete another when you say I don't like the design and the design is this way because majority fans are either 14 year old, weeb or other passive agressive insults.
Also this isn't the first of these passive agressive thread the op has made, nor is it the first time his/her thread delve into a low key passive agressive flaming of the player base.
Personally if you want to encourage thoughtful discussion, perhaps it's wise to stop allowing people insulting fanbase to attack riot design decissions.
HalcyonDweller1 votesAnd the pot calls the kettle black. You are being hypocritical in saying that, amigo.
Kind of funny that you are accusing and looking down on me for doing something which you yourself are guilty of doing.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesAnd the pot calls the kettle black. You are being hypocritical in saying that, amigo.
Kind of funny that you are accusing and looking down on me for doing something which you yourself are guilty of doing.
The difference between me and you: I never claimed to be the majority.
I only ever claimed to be part of the playerbase.
I know that claiming to be the majority is a good way to say "hey developers, do what -I- like!!", but they aren't so naive.
HalcyonDweller2 votesActually the difference is just semantics.
You said it yourself:
Apparently, Evelynn is what everyone wants.
And the public response is in line with that statement. Ralanr already explained this. And given that your post has been downvoted to hell, it seems I am correct in my claim.
If you are dissatisfied with Riot's work on Evelyn you are free to say so. But don't get upset at me when your own decision to call out the majority and talk shit about them gets you buried in downvotes. It would have been easier to say, "I don't like how sexualized Evelynn's character is with the rework." You never had to try to shit on everybody else for liking her.
The inevitable result of claiming that everyone who disagrees with you is baised or an idiot is that everyone who disagrees with you will stand firmer against you.
You will not persuade anybody that you are right by alienating the very people you are attempting to persuade.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesFun fact, I JUST read a thread here of a guy very politely making valid critics on Evelynn's new VO, while making it very clear that Evelynn is awesome and that he loves that character.
That thread still got downvoted.
Do you know why I, instead, don't bother being nice here? Because I know this forum is an echo chamber (not "the majority" as you believe it), and I'd get downvoted just for saying I don't like something, no matter how kindly and nicely I put it.
Oh, and also, this is a forum where waifu threads get upvoted.
You better hope this forum doesn't represent the majority.
HalcyonDweller1 votesFair enough. But As Ralanr pointed out, look to Reddit.
I usually abstain from downvoting posts, even yours - I didn't vote on it.
I'd be interested in reading that thread if you don't mind sharing the link.
Hmm, 'echo chamber' and insulting everybody who disagrees with you. I smell bias.
The purpose of the boards is to share and discuss ideas, not virtue signal and rub shit all over other people's reputations.
Sit down and stop acting like you are better than everybody else. Such behavior is annoying and inherently self-disproving. Legitimately 'better' people do not look down on others for thinking differently.
HalcyonDweller1 votes<Deleted duplicate comment> - Hal
HalcyonDweller1 votesYou can find that thread easily by browsing here - but look at that, now it's been upvoted. I don't wanna sound paranoid, but, I would say it was most likely upvoted by people who read my comment here and decided to upvote that thread to "spite" me.
I know from experience in internet forums, trust me.
I doubt people care that much about one person to go to all the trouble of upvoting something elsewhere just to spite them. I certainly wouldn't want to put in that much effort for such a petty reason. What is more likely is that enough rational people saw the post and upvoted it because they appreciated the content. That's how things usually work here.
Not to mention the fact that most of them probably never saw your comment because of how far down a discussion chain it is. This conversation is nearly private by this point, because the chain is hidden behind a 'show more' button and only you or I will receive notifications that a new comment has been made.
You should really stop assuming everything has something to do with you. It doesn't.
Zezockary5 votesMaybe you are correct.
But here's the thing: if I overreact so much, it means there's something wrong with Riot. It's not just about Evelynn. This whole year I felt like the game designs were.... different. Very different from what we had in the past two years.
No, you overreacting means that you are overreacting. It means that you are reacting more to something than you should be, the word inherently implies an issue with the one it is describing. Also, until my post, you are the only one in this thread that has used the word "overreact".
So, the only "sexy" design I am finding when looking at recent champions is Evelynn unless there is a rework I am missing. What champions in particular do you have an issue with if you don't mind me asking?
LunSeiSleidee1 votesI have an issue with every champion released in 2017. To put it bluntly, the gameplays are always nice, but the visual design of each and everyone of them is horrible.
Lady Faceless1 votesOkay, I get Xayah, Rakan and Kayn. But tell me, that in the hell is wrong with Ornn?
LunSeiSleidee1 votesOrnn is much, much better than Xayah, Rakan and Kayn.
But let's face it. He's called Ornn and he has a horn. That alone is already pretty..... ugh.
Terrible name aside, it feels like they were trying to put the dwarf archetype in the game. A giant hairy dwarf, but still a dwarf.
Mind you, Ornn just leaves me bored, but I haven't complained about him like I did with Xayah, Rakan and Kayn.
Lady Faceless1 votesWell, his archtype (black smith, dwarf-like) were missing. So this is a bad thing? Does it mean Riot isn't allow to fill their champion pool with some missing archtypes? I mean, there is are reason why archtypes exist, you know? I mean, you know how hypocrite this sounds? "I don't like his name and appareance, so it is a boring design." This statment is an opinion. Could you for once try to stop selling your opinion as a fact? Like, there is no problem saying you just don't care for him as character. But calling him boring since he isn't your cup of tea? Your arrogance is showing off.
DrCyanide4 votesThe next?
was a bunch of "you'll dull your sword legs walking on them" and "thicc"
was a lot of "ew, Riot likes Anime" and "this character swears?"
was a bunch of people going...
http://oi67.tinypic.com/ri87s3.jpg
XIII Vanitas1 votesGroucho Marx was a key inspiration for Taliyah's design.
Ralanr6 votesI mean, Eve seems like the first "sexy" female champion we've had in a while as Riot has been recently diversifying their female cast. The important thing is if it makes sense for the character to be a sexy bombshell.
Evelynn and for example Leblanc are meant to be alluring because it plays into their characters. Evelynn is a demon meant to tempt people into allowing her to hurt them, and as sexist as a sexy woman doing that is, there is truth to that working and is common in folklore (folklore in general isn't kind to women, but it has a lot to draw from). Leblanc is similar though not to the same extreme. There have been hints to the past that Leblanc is much older than she appears, using illusions to appear more attractive in order to better "distract" people.
Then we have Taliyah and Illaoi. Both are very different from your "sexy" build and their body types make sense. Taliyah is a teenager, maybe 14 so she's not exactly gone through puberty. So if she was a bombshell then it wouldn't make sense. Illaoi similarly needs a large and strong body to throw around her idol (which shouldn't be used as a weapon) to hit people. Giving her a bombshell body just wouldn't make sense for her character.
Riot admitted that a lot of their old female champions are basically using the same models with different hairstyles and are seeking to better diversify their women. But that doesn't mean they aren't going to stop making "sexy" or that suddenly making "sexy" champions means that they'll stop trying to diversify their women.
If it makes sense with the character, then Riot will do it.
Blood Magicks5 votesThe majority of the playerbase (and maybe the boards) is straight male teens. That's not even questionable.
That said, despite the fact that older (23+) people are a minority, they have a much higher purchasing power than teens. Especially the ones with degrees and jobs.
A stable long-term strategy for League is to attract teens and retain them into their adulthood, which will yield maximum profit. This is why I believe childish and mature designs come in waves, where the former is focused on getting new players, and the latter - on retaining and winning over older ones.
LunSeiSleidee2 votesThat kinda sounds like a clever plan.
JooshBox5 votesRiot made a conscious decision to make females of varying body types ever since Lissandra's release. For comparison, we've had 
and .
None of these characters are the super busty, hyper-sexualized stereotypes op thinks the majority of gamers want. Yet many of the (Jinx being the standout) are incredibly popular among the player base. For reference was released April 30 2013. Evelynn isn't even a new champion she was always sexy she just looks sexier now. I'd even argue all those champs I listed are sexy/attractive in their own way. I think it's actually ridiculous to complain about Riot oversexualizing a succubus character.
AbiwonKenabi1 votesNicely put, took the words out of my mouth. People always seem to forget Jinx is super flat and has no figure...and she's one of the most popular Champions in the game.
Riot haven't released a sexy grill in a while. Still technically haven't, seeing as Evelynn is a rework and not a new Champion. If anything, Riot has been releasing more attractive men this year with Rakan and Kayn.
MistaFarenheit1 votesTHANK YOU eve is a pretty damn good rework in my opinion but even so jinx is my highest rated, most played, and still favorite champ.
midnight oil244 votesI'd like to see you say something positive about a new champ just once. I don't think I've ever seen you say anything good about design in this game.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesIf you've been following me through this whole year: yes. Designs in 2017 sucked at Riot's.
midnight oil244 votesBut see, that's your opinion. The problem is that you keep coming on here and stating your opinion as though it is a fact. It is not a fact. Riot made good designs this year isn't necessarily a fact either. It all comes down to the individual. However, you shout about how they're too anime for you or whatever, and say that either your overreaction proves that something is wrong with Riot, or go pity hunting by saying that if people disagree with you must just be a minority not worth bothering with.
Not great.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesSo, I am a minority not worth bothering with.
Not pity hunting, but a fact.
