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@Riot about the Irelia rework

WoonStruck·Aug 27, 2016·1 votes·1,757 views

If Irelia is completely remade and does not retain her current laning/combat patterns with Q and E, is there any possibility of creating a champion that utilizes those two tools (potentially passive) where they are more thematically fulfilling and better balanced with an entirely new W and R, and maybe passive?

I think Irelia's laning and teamfight pattern is interesting and fun, but could be better balanced+less frustrating/stat-checky on another champion, as well as more fulfilling for a champion's theme.

Another option is keeping Irelia with her current kit (or very similar) and changing her theme via lore (Ionian general revived by Aatrox in her battle, rather than spirit of her telekinetic swords?), then creating an entirely new champion that holds the 'telekinetic warrior' trope.

Not every champion has to hold a super intricate/niche trope; J4 and Kat are good examples.

The final option is just having another champion that is more focused on telekinesis in battle.

Fire mage
Ice mage
Time benders
inventors
Mounted
berserker FURY
Void mage
Ultimate duelist
Seductress
Mad scientist
human/creature transformation

All of these champs share thematic spaces and are allowed to co-exist. There's no reason Irelia's kit can't be refined to be less stat-checky (new W/R[No trinity force then], adjusted E) while retaining her unique gameplay aspects. There is definitely a world where her Q+E gameplay can be recycled and balanced either way.

If Kayle is considered a salvageable champion that's clearly fulfilling a trope there's no reason Irelia isn't too. Kayle's kit is pretty unhealthy, proven just as many times as Irelia's, if not more... and its not really thematically fulfilling as an angel either. Angel/divine warrior could definitely be done better.

9 Comments

WoonStruckAug 27, 20161 votes

I meant to post this to Gameplay, but it also applies here; just not very hopeful about it being noticed here... Oh well.

BloodyTomponAug 27, 20161 votes

Q is about the most interesting thing Irelia does, i'd be quite surprised if they removed that.

WoonStruckAug 27, 20161 votes

Q isn't interesting if she doesn't have follow-up.

A melee champ having a melee stun (renekton, Jax, udyr, etc) isn't a problem. If her 'melee stun' is less reliable by becoming a slow if she has more % HP, its even 'healthier'. It also encourages creative use of her Q to stun someone, rather than just Q->E for a stun, regardless of what her passive, W, and R do.

Q+E should be salvaged for the total gameplay patterns they bring together.

What she can do with W (automatic damage; burst AND dps early-mid game) and R (spammable sheen procs) during her stun duration is what makes her a problem currently.

PANAGIA PARTHENAAug 27, 20161 votes

Might be a bit early to ask riot about it. I think her E is easier to change than her W without changing her laning/teamfight pattern.Her E can be abused in lane to safely farm, and get to her midgame godmode almost for free.Thats why even bad players can do somewhat well on her.Her W on the other hand(the active at least) would change her lane phase dramatically if removed.To me irelia can really stay the same with some tweaks, and i was kind of sad that she is getting reworked.But i started having some ideas and got pretty optimistic about her rework.This will be really a total hit or a total miss for me.

WoonStruckAug 27, 20161 votes

She likely won't retain anything outside of Q. Maybe passive. They want her to be a diver, but they only think her Q is cool.

E is interesting, but too many scrubs think its OP that it doesn't automatically stun you and it forces her to think about how she engages rather than just charging in every time W/R are off CD for a free kill.

Idk if its people engaging ON Irelia or what, but they need to treat her the same as Riven or any other AD bruiser with hard CC...lol

GreenLoreAug 27, 20161 votes

{quoted} The final option is just having another champion that is more focused on telekinesis in battle.

Fire mage

Ice mage

Time benders

inventors

Mounted

berserker FURY

Void mage

Ultimate duelist

Seductress

Mad scientist

human/creature transformation

All of these champs share thematic spaces and are allowed to co-exist. There's no reason Irelia's kit can't be refined to be less stat-checky (new W/R[No trinity force then], adjusted E) while retaining her unique gameplay aspects. There is definitely a world where her Q+E gameplay can be recycled and balanced either way.

The thing is that all of these still have their own thematic niches that the other one doesn't have. Annie is a creepy child with a monster protector,while isn't just a fire mage,but a fire elemental Anivia is a phoenix,while Lissandra fills the ice-queen niche Ekko is a time traveler, Zilean is a time mage Jayce is the tony starrk type inventor(and the transforming weapon user), Viktor is the mad scientist, Heimerdinger is the ditzy professor Kled is a war veteran(and the closest thing we have to a real cavalerist), Nunu has a yeti and Sejuani is a savage rider Olaf is the typical viking,while Tryndamere is a barbarian and much more focused on the rage part Malzahar is the cultist-like guy and a prophet,while Kassadin is the dimension traveler,the guy who saw the otherworldly horrors and tries to stop them. Jax total enigma and weapon master, Fiora is our fencer and the one who is really focused on 1v1 duels(they aren't really part of Jaxs character) MissFortune is a bounty hunter/pirate girl(in terms of looks),wheras Ahri is a nine tailed fox(or gumiho to be specific) Singed is the chemic,wheras DrMundo is basically the mr.hyde combined with the hulk Elise is a spider queen and Nidalee is a female tarzan

Irelia however doesn't have anything that makes her stand out except for her levitating blades.

If Kayle is considered a salvageable champion that's clearly fulfilling a trope there's no reason Irelia isn't too. Kayle's kit is pretty unhealthy, proven just as many times as Irelia's, if not more... and its not really thematically fulfilling as an angel either. Angel/divine warrior could definitely be done better.

Kayle is far from perfect,but still a lot better in terms of thematic. Her Q is basically divine punishment,her W is the help from an angel,her E is the flaming sword and halo of an archangel and her R is pretty much divine intervention. Meanwhile Irelia uses her telekinesis in only one abilitiy and that is her ult,which feels rather underwhelming. The rest of her kit would make just as much sense on any other fighter.

WoonStruckAug 28, 20161 votes

Irelia however doesn't have anything that makes her stand out except for her levitating blades.

Kayle is far from perfect,but still a lot better in terms of thematic. Her Q is basically divine punishment,her W is the help from an angel,her E is the flaming sword and halo of an archangel and her R is pretty much divine intervention. Meanwhile Irelia uses her telekinesis in only one abilitiy and that is her ult,which feels rather underwhelming. The rest of her kit would make just as much sense on any other fighter.

And Irelia is the Ionian general that says everything about balance despite being one of the biggest balance issues at release. Beautiful irony. They could easily flesh out her lore. She's not any worse than J4 in that regard. He has nothing that stands out except his weapon.

Meanwhile Kayle's Q isn't divine punishment at all. Its a ball of red she throws at someone. Its hardly different than Ryze's original Q.

Her W is just a heal and MS buff. It has nothing to do with an angel, really. Its not any different than Nid's heal in effect or animation.

her E says nothing about an angel. You could throw a flaming sword on anyone and it'd be just as thematic, essentially.

Her R is the only thing that stands out as an angel, really. They just picked 'JUDGING YOU' names for all of her abilities and called it good.

Compare her to her opposite sister, Morgana. Morgana's skills all have aspects of a fallen angel, outside of maybe her E, but this is from when league gave 99% of champs 2 damage skills and a utility skill for their QWE, so they probably struggled to find that one.

All Irelia needs to be more fleshed out than Kayle in every aspect is for her auto attacks and W activation to not be just whacking someone with a levitating board that looks like her 4 blades.

GreenLoreAug 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And Irelia is the Ionian general that says everything about balance despite being one of the biggest balance issues at release. Beautiful irony. They could easily flesh out her lore. She's not any worse than J4 in that regard. He has nothing that stands out except his weapon.

J4 is the only prince in the game and is essentially a dragoon from Final fantasy(using a dragon armor,lance and having a jumping ability). Meanwhile we have lots of other generals in the game already.

Meanwhile Kayle's Q isn't divine punishment at all. Its a ball of red she throws at someone. Its hardly different than Ryze's original Q.

Her W is just a heal and MS buff. It has nothing to do with an angel, really. Its not any different than Nid's heal in effect or animation.

The spell animation of these suck,but that doesn't make them less fitting. Angels are known to be good creatures and are thus often associated with healing,which is why she has a heal. The Q might be a bit of a stretch,but the fact that you can't dodge it makes it feel like she is gives out inevitable punishment,but I can understand your point here.

her E says nothing about an angel. You could throw a flaming sword on anyone and it'd be just as thematic, essentially.

What?It appears you have no idea about the angels from mythology. Because certain angels in the mythology are known to have flaming swords,which is why Kayles E turns her sword ablaze. Not to mention that she gets a halo during her E as well.

55976771DEL2Aug 28, 20161 votes

There are several posts about her rework but a better ones and they can be found on reddit forums.

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