Morgana and Kayle's 975 RP Skins are not up to standard.

Oleandervine·Mar 4, 2019·129 votes·22,020 views

Battleborn Kayle, Transcended Kayle, Exiled Morgana, and Sinful Succulence Morgana ALL use the base character recall, and with the exception of Exile, all use the base character particle effects. As 975 RP skins, they should have unique recalls and different VFX, as is part of the standard of their skin tier. This is especially noticeable compared to the only other 975 RP skins in the lot - Bewitching and Ghost Bride Morgana - that ARE up to the standard of their's pricing tier, since they have unique particles and a unique recall.

So unless you're going to be dropping the price of these 4 skins, you NEED to bring them up to par. As you have them now, they're nothing more than super expensive 520RP/750RP skins. You took a step forward with updating the particles for Exiled, so now do that for ALL of them, and give them recalls befitting of their pricing tier. You should be doing the quality work to make your products worth their price, not ignoring it and selling a product that is not worth the cost. I understand they were originally released when there wasn't a lot of quality bound to pricing tiers, but times have changed, and you're still charging a lot for these skins while delivering to us a low quality product. Fix them.

P.S. If I can point out one thing AT LEAST and get you guys at Riot to listen: Every single Cooking Masters skin has a new particle effect. Every. Single. One. This includes the THREE 750 RP ones - BBQ Leona, Butcher Olaf, and Sashimi Akali. If the THREE 750 RP skins can get a single particle change to make them silly for the Cooking Masters line, Sinful Succulence Morgana can get her particles changed to match her to the line. It's fucking criminal that she's been folded into that universe, and yet has nothing in her VFX that includes food or other effects.

NEW DEVELOPMENT: I just read in a thread from Sir Saltarin that Reav3 has acknowledged on Reddit that they will listen and adjust Aetherwing Kayle.

Reav3:

Hey all, lots of great points brought up in this thread. With legendaries the amount of unique anims and how drastically they change can vary from Champion to Champion. With newer Champions they can sometimes have massive animation suites, so rather then give them 100% unique anims we just tweak the base ones. This was a approach we took for both Nightbringer Yasuo and and Dark Star Thresh since they were much newer Champions. New Kayle has a enormous animation suite, between 4 forms, enraged/non-enraged AAs, Melee/ranged AAs, High Attack Speed/Low Attack speed AA, so we had to chose carefully where to put the unique animations for Kayle. We ultimately chose to put the unique anims into her mechanical wings, which do have a new animation suite compared to base Kayle as we felt her mechanical wings are the most unique aspect of the skin. The Death anim is a good call out though and we will be adding a unique death anim to her soon, targeting next patch. We will also be adjusting AWs Auto attack SFX to match closer to old AW SFX.

Let's keep at is so these skins get attention too! They need a lot more work than they were giving, so they're much more deserving of being made worth their price point! Keep bugging them!

New Update: Silver Kayle, Riot Kayle, and Judgment Kayle are getting particle updates. Riot, you're still not done! There are 3 more skins to update the particles for, and they still need unique recalls!

130 Comments

Sir SaltarinMar 4, 201942 votes

Worth to mention that the only new animations that Aether Wing Kayle has as a 1820rp skin is a new transformation and the Ctrl1, 2, 3 and 4.

Her walk, homeguards, aa, Q, W, E, R animations are ALL the vanilla Kayle animations, not even a new death animation.

Edit: and Aether Wing Kayle has a total of 8min VO which is worse than any 1820 skin they have released in a long time, Oddisey Kayn has a 32min VO (which means that all 3 forms have as mins as whole AW Kayle), Eclipse Leona 10 min, Nunu Bot had 15min, High Noon Lucian 11 min, God King Darius 15 min - God King Garen 18.

SukishooMar 4, 201913 votes

They did the same thing when they updated Gatekeeper Galio. They didn't give him the full treatment for new animations either.

Sir SaltarinMar 4, 201918 votes

Man at least his VO is worth it, 17 mins of demonic voice.

Compare that to the fking 8mins of AW Kayle, not to mention that they turned a quiet and wholesome VO into a spacial fascist with an terrible robot voice.

Like, how they changed her character and if it's good or bad it's subjective, but a 8min VO for a 1820 skin on 2019 it's clear as water that they went budget on it's rework.

Yordle XayahMar 4, 201916 votes

Too much work for Riot, which are a small indie developer. Don't be unreasonable. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

OleandervineMar 4, 20198 votes

If you need other examples of 975 RP skins: Blood Moon Evelynn Playmaker Lee Sin Justiciar Aatrox Frostbutt Irelia Warring Kingdom Katarina Death Blossom Kha'Zix Gentleman Gnar Moo Cow Alistar

Nanuk PihoqahiakMar 5, 20196 votes

The whole update reeks of lazy and was obviously rushed.

GarentheonMar 4, 20194 votes

Reav3 said not all 975 skins have those things.

But if you dig, you’ll see that’s because those skins are old and came out before the new 975 updated standard.

EDIT: I think ya misunderstood. I am pro updating 975 skins.

“those are old skins and came out before the new 975 updated standard.” was in reference to the skins Reav3 was referencing when he said not all 975 have recalls, vfx, etc.

OleandervineMar 4, 201916 votes

{quoted}

Reav3 said not all 975 skins have those things.

But if you dig, you’ll see that’s because those skins are old and came out before the new 975 and up standard

The big difference is that the newer 975 skins, and reworks, like Justiciar Aatrox have the appropriate upgrades for their pricing tier. At this stage of the game, there is no excuse for why updated skins shouldn't match their pricing tier.

InfernapeMar 4, 201935 votes

Riot's own skin tier list says otherwise.

In Riot's own words 975s "Pushes the champion a step beyond a simple costume change, with more immersive qualities." (immersive qualities being things like VFX, new dances or recalls) compared to 750s which are "A simple "costume change" for the champion." As of now, most of Kayle's 975s are costume changes, ergo in the 750 tier.

GarentheonMar 4, 201914 votes

Yea their tier list contradicts them.

Just makes me sad for some upcoming VGUs

Votable JesterMar 4, 20199 votes

And the Galio VGU contradicts that.

SobxMar 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Riot's own skin tier list says otherwise.

In Riot's own words 975s "Pushes the champion a step beyond a simple costume change, with more immersive qualities." (immersive qualities being things like VFX, new dances or recalls) compared to 750s which are "A simple "costume change" for the champion." As of now, most of Kayle's 975s are costume changes, ergo in the 750 tier.

So what would you say is a difference between 975 and 1350 pricing tiers? "more immersive qualities" can mean anything and it doesn't necessarily mean VFX changes.

InfernapeMar 5, 20192 votes

None. A lot of 975s do qualify for the 1350 price tag like Birdio and Festival Queen Anivia. There is literally no difference between the two unless you look at older 975s that had little in the way of VFX.

SobxMar 5, 20194 votes

{quoted}

None. A lot of 975s do qualify for the 1350 price tag like Birdio and Festival Queen Anivia. There is literally no difference between the two unless you look at older 975s that had little in the way of VFX.

Yup, but all that shows is that they can put higher tier skins into lower price tiers, which is hard to complain about. Now, you claimed that 975 rp tier should guarantee new VFX. But where did this claim come from? When they introduced new price tiers this is what they posted.

975 RP skins feature a new model, textures and splash image; some skins in this tier will feature new animations, visual effects and sounds where appropriate for the theme of the skin. (...) Skins in the 1350 RP tier will feature a new model, textures, splash image, animations, visual effects and sounds. In some cases, these skins will also have processed voice overs.

So if Blackthorne Morg (which is literally in that link as a 1350 skin example) doesn't get visual effects, then complain about that. But nothing about 975 RP skins guarantees new particles from what I can see there.

If you found a more recent description of each tier that's also not as vague as support page one, then feel free to share :p

SpideraxeMar 4, 20194 votes

I think this is an issue the extends to the entire 975 line since its pretty inconsistent imho, you have some 975s which are essentially 750s and others that are just cheaper 1350s. There is no real standard to the price point as a whole

xSintactxMar 6, 20194 votes

Well said. I 100% agree.

The EcdysiastMar 4, 20193 votes

Uh, no. 975 is not unique recalls. You're thinking 1350.

SukishooMar 4, 201913 votes

Check out skins like Baker Pantheon, Blood Moon Evelynn and Chemtech Tryndamere plus many more. All are 975 and have unique recalls. So no, 975 is where recalls have always started.

The EcdysiastMar 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Check out skins like Baker Pantheon, Blood Moon Evelynn and Chemtech Tryndamere plus many more. All are 975 and have unique recalls. So no, 975 is where recalls have always started.

Uhuh. You can cherry-pick if you want. The vast majority of 975 skins do not. So your point is entirely moot.

SukishooMar 4, 201911 votes

No it's really not.

Sir SaltarinMar 4, 20199 votes

The thing is that all the new 975 skins they released lately are on a higher standard than old 975rp, and since the rework of Kayle and Morgana is happening now it makes sense that they should've re-made that skins as 975 skins are now.

Tin ObliteratesMar 4, 20193 votes

Makes me kind of scared for Mordekaiser's Lord and Pentakill skins once his rework is revealed.

MankeyMadnessMar 4, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=garen god dab,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EZjzxQoG,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-03-04T22:50:11.893+0000)

Makes me kind of scared for Mordekaiser's Lord and Pentakill skins once his rework is revealed.

Or his 520 RP Infernal skin which will remain a chroma at almost double price with 0 fire effects. Morde is getting reworked at an awful time and I can't wait to see Riot get chewed out by every single media platform for their shitty service quality if they don't reneg the Policy of Laziness.

Or we wait for a champion with an actual player base to get a high tier Rework and prove they don't care if it's not a popular champ (despite numerous promises to the contrary.)

Worst Morde NAMar 5, 20195 votes

And for a good reason, too. Reave DID say that any skin under 1350 will not be getting any special or unique VFX. That being said, Mord doesn't have a single 1350 skin, so we can forget about the fantasy of having nice, updated, unique skins for one of the oldest champions in league.

At least back in the first few seasons, Morde had unique VFX on his skins like electricity on Lord's w, for example.

What a shame that Season one and two Mord will have more unique VFX on his skins than a freshly worked 2019 reworked Morde. And to think that his skins was what I was most hyped about. I'm severely dissapointed, and am afraid we may lose of unique fire of Nightfall when you use Q as Lord Mord.

Morde's skins= Overpriced Cromas, and it appears Riot wants it to stay that way.

Tin ObliteratesMar 5, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Morde NA,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EZjzxQoG,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2019-03-05T05:52:40.178+0000)

And for a good reason, too. Reave DID say that any skin under 1350 will not be getting any special or unique VFX. That being said, Mord doesn't have a single 1350 skin, so we can forget about the fantasy of having nice, updated, unique skins for one of the oldest champions in league.

At least back in the first few seasons, Morde had unique VFX on his skins like electricity on Lord's w, for example.

What a shame that Season one and two Mord will have more unique VFX on his skins than a freshly worked 2019 reworked Morde. And to think that his skins was what I was most hyped about. I'm severely dissapointed, and am afraid we may lose of unique fire of Nightfall when you use Q as Lord Mord.

Morde's skins= Overpriced Cromas, and it appears Riot wants it to stay that way.

It's so weird to me, because as far as I know 975 are supposed to have new VFX and even in rare cases a new recall.

And I was so hyped for Pentakill Morde finally getting fire particles like Olaf, Yorick and Kayle did.

Worst Morde NAMar 5, 20192 votes

That's what I'm used to, as well.

Sadly, thier policy has changed, and they essentially have upped the prices on skins.

MalungoMar 5, 20193 votes

Yeah it's definitely a bit of a let down, not to mention Judgement Kayle being totally neglected.

I was super excited for the redesign of Judgement Kayle, and I do like the skins model and overall design (new level 16 wings need to be darker). I just wish her particle effects got updated, how can Riot make a dark themed skin paired with golden light particles? It just looks like of off, I'm not saying it looks terrible it just does not fit the theme of the skin at all.

KennekyMar 5, 20193 votes

I'm surprised you mention their skins while old legendary skins like Gentleman Cho'Gath don't deserve to be legendary skins anymore. The could at least lower the price to the on of like Surprise Party Fiddlesticks since it's also an outdated legendary skin. I have Dragon Trainer Lulu and as an Epic skin it has only cleaned out spell effects, no new recall, and the wood stumps that are used to stun enemies while casting her ultimate are not even changed, sure it's worth being an Epic skin only for the dragon that replaces Pix right? That's a problem every outdated champion have.

OleandervineMar 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I'm surprised you mention their skins while old legendary skins like Gentleman Cho'Gath don't deserve to be legendary skins anymore. The could at least lower the price to the on of like Surprise Party Fiddlesticks since it's also an outdated legendary skin. I have Dragon Trainer Lulu and as an Epic skin it has only cleaned out spell effects, no new recall, and the wood stumps that are used to stun enemies while casting her ultimate are not even changed, sure it's worth being an Epic skin only for the dragon that replaces Pix right? That's a problem every outdated champion have.

There's a HUGE difference here. These skins for Morgana and Kayle are being updated in 2019, right now, in the modern age of the game. Gentleman Cho, Surprise Party Fiddlesticks, and Dragon Trainer Lulu are considerably older, the latest being the Lulu skin, released in 2012, the same year Lulu herself was released. None of these skins are up to standard, because back in 2012, they didn't even have the solid standards that they have now, since those came about in about 2014, and the old skins, like Gentleman Cho, are relics from the day and age when 1820 skins included anything that deviated it from the normal champion further than a recolor. I get there is bad quality stuff that exists. But the vast majority that exists is beyond ancient, and not currently being rereleased with modern standards, as the Morgana and Kayle skins are.

SukishooMar 5, 20193 votes

For someone like Cho'gath, they will have fully updated skins in the future for his VGU where his 2 legendaries will be closer to the legendary tier (still not 100% perfect though as we have seen from various issues that still exist on Gatekeeper Galio and now Aether Wing Kayle).

Yeah Dragon Trainer Lulu does lack a bit for an Epic tier as it was created back in 2012 where they didn't outline those things that went into these tiers. So yes, it's not up to the standard either and may get there one day when she gets updated but it still offers more than just a costume change. So in her case it's still better off than what is happening to some of the 975 skins that should have been updated to more recent standards when they are actually updating the champions.

FluffehMar 5, 20193 votes

Came to the forum to make this thread, literally every kayle skin including aetherwing are low effort as hell with the one exception of pentakill kayle. Even judgement kayle, the season 2 skin that riot could put some extra oomph into to reward their long time customers and fans is so fucking ugly with its bright yellow particles and deep teal and silver color palette

The DreamwalkerMar 6, 20193 votes

I don't think that Riot needs to do anything else to the 975 skins because they are defined as:

Includes a new model, new texture and splash image. Sometimes includes new animations, visual effects, and sounds were appropriate for the skin's theme, or where the lack of would be detrimental.

Riot isn't obligated to provide new particle effects or recall animations for those you listed. They are guaranteed on skins priced 1350 or above. 975 RP skins are a step above "budget" skins or simple costume changes, but are below in quality of Epic tiered skins. You can get new animations and such in a 975 skin, but only if Riot feels like adding them.

750 skins have the same qualities as 975 skins, but they only have a chance for new animations. 975 skins have a chance to have anything from 1350 skins added in. There are, of course, exceptions to the rules and listings above.

SobxMar 6, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Dreamwalker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EZjzxQoG,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-03-06T00:29:57.297+0000)

I don't think that Riot needs to do anything else to the 975 skins because they are defined as:

Includes a new model, new texture and splash image. Sometimes includes new animations, visual effects, and sounds were appropriate for the skin's theme, or where the lack of would be detrimental.

Riot isn't obligated to provide new particle effects or recall animations for those you listed. They are guaranteed on skins priced 1350 or above. 975 RP skins are a step above "budget" skins or simple costume changes, but are below in quality of Epic tiered skins. You can get new animations and such in a 975 skin, but only if Riot feels like adding them.

750 skins have the same qualities as 975 skins, but they only have a chance for new animations. 975 skins have a chance to have anything from 1350 skins added in. There are, of course, exceptions to the rules and listings above.

Exactly! But I already pointed that out to OP and he (along with sukishoo) chooses to just ignore that argument, huh. They don't care about the facts, they just want mooooore.

SukishooMar 6, 20195 votes

And you chose to ignore the reality which is they clearly updated their guidelines (in March 5th 2019) upon those and these skins are meant to be more than a costume change. So you're the one ignoring facts.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752874-Guide-to-Skin-Price-Tiers

cause if you look there it clearly states "Pushes the champion a step beyond a simple costume change, with more immersive qualities." and then lists three examples that are more than just a costume "Foxfire Ahri, Chemtech Tryndamere , Gentleman Gnar"

SobxMar 6, 20192 votes

{quoted}

And you chose to ignore the reality which is they clearly updated their guidelines (in March 5th 2019) upon those and these skins are meant to be more than a costume change. So you're the one ignoring facts.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752874-Guide-to-Skin-Price-Tiers

cause if you look there it clearly states "Pushes the champion a step beyond a simple costume change, with more immersive qualities." and then lists three examples that are more than just a costume "Foxfire Ahri, Chemtech Tryndamere , Gentleman Gnar"

Clearly updated? Then how about finally showing everyone ANYTHING about new VFX being required for a 975 tier? (hint: "immersive" =/= VFX and you're simply wrong)

SukishooMar 6, 20195 votes

You're the only one wrong here :) As it clearly says "MORE THAN A COSTUME CHANGE" 750s are just a COSTUME CHANGE. Everything higher should have MORE. Or they need to reprice the skins to 750. End of story.

InfernapeMar 6, 20196 votes

Riot reworded their skin price tier list guide. They describe 975s as skins with immersive qualities beyond that of a simple costume change.

LoL Engel 2Mar 5, 20192 votes

Imagine spending money on a free game lol

SobxMar 5, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=LoL Engel 2,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EZjzxQoG,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-03-05T04:09:44.040+0000)

Imagine spending money on a free game lol

Imagine wanting a free game to play without having at least some people spending money on it lol You really should thank them instead of spewing this garbage like you just did.

LoL Engel 2Mar 5, 20191 votes

If riot goes bankrupt (can only hope), then I'll just move on to another game. It isn't so important to me that I'd spend money on it or care if I couldn't play it anymore

Imagine caring about League lol

SobxMar 5, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=LoL Engel 2,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EZjzxQoG,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T05:02:44.172+0000)

If riot goes bankrupt (can only hope), then I'll just move on to another game. It isn't so important to me that I'd spend money on it or care if I couldn't play it anymore

Imagine caring about League lol

Imagine pretending you don't care while you play the game with multiple accounts and spam the boards, so edgy lol Obvious troll is obvious, so I'm done responding to you. :D

Clone Is FriendMar 5, 20191 votes

#boycottriot

Pyrop33Mar 5, 20192 votes

Just praying they don't do Mord this dirty. Poor boy deserves the best

Linna ExcelMar 5, 20192 votes

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here. I don't think the VGU team cares anymore. They had a lot of skins to update and they can't be bothered with doing a good job on them anymore or keeping with themes or maintaining the rules of a pricing tier or a skin line. Riot's profits were down .7 billion last year (got woke, going broke) and they are recouping it in part via shoddy reworks that cut corners. Now compound that with the fact they are either making an MMO or a live service of some kind which is siphoning a ton of capital as well and you've got a company in a pinch.

Welcome to the new standard.

EDIT: they are also located in LA where land prices, like for their 2 offices, are outrageous and the cost of living is absurdly high. CA has a high tax rate on top of that. For a job that can be done anywhere, they are grossly overpaying and that's also sapping company finances in turn. For example if riot moved to a state without an income tax, they could halve their bonuses and employees would still take home the same amount, but it would go further for them.

Bad business decisions are getting compounded.

Clone Is FriendMar 5, 20191 votes

ever looked at shaco LOL. stop complaining when it still doesnt look like a chroma. literally 2 skins change anything on shaco and its just masked's dance which is worse than original and aslym and masked q

not saying this is acceptable but they have done it in the past.

OleandervineMar 5, 20196 votes

{quoted}

ever looked at shaco LOL. stop complaining when it still doesnt look like a chroma. literally 2 skins change anything on shaco and its just masked's dance which is worse than original and aslym and masked q

not saying this is acceptable but they have done it in the past.

You're comparing a champion who's in dire need of a VGU to a champion who literally just got VGU'd. Shaco will get VGU'd eventually, and you'll be in this exact same situation if we don't hold Riot accountable. Do you want them to rework Shaco with his skins as nothing but shitty model swaps, regardless of their pricing tier? Because if you speak up NOW, long before Shaco even is considered for a VGU, Riot will improve their VGU process for the future. So don't sit here and scoff when it will inevitably affect things for future VGUs.

SektahMar 5, 20191 votes

Its not that deep, before Riot was on this rampage of only.making 1350 skins. 975 skins only changed particles, and maybe recalls if u got lucky. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I have all Kayle and Morgana skins and I actually like how they have the base recall.

OleandervineMar 5, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead Than Dull,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EZjzxQoG,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:07:19.370+0000)

Its not that deep, before Riot was on this rampage of only.making 1350 skins. 975 skins only changed particles, and maybe recalls if u got lucky. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I have all Kayle and Morgana skins and I actually like how they have the base recall.

975 skins since like 2013 have added new recalls and new particles. It's even listed on their support page about skin pricing that 975 skins are SUPPOSED TO DELIVER more than 750 RP skins. So don't make this excuse when it doesn't have any backbone.