Name every cliché in the new lore

James Stone·Feb 13, 2015·12 votes·1,987 views

Continuing my year-long rageboner against this abomination of writing they call the New Lore (As usual, Sion's work is immune to the trashtalk, kudos to that and... I think that's that), today we express our hate/dissapointment/frustration/resignation for the new lore with a game. Name ALL the clichés they somehow managed to cram in a narrative which, for better or worse, was relatively free of clichés and heavy on subversions!

1 - stabbing in the back for no reason whatsoever

Seriously. She was a mercenary under contract. How hard would it be to say: "Hey let me borrow your weapon, I think it's a key". (It probably has a good explanation which we weren't given because the motivations and character of Cassiopeia are still a mystery. Good work on that followup, guys!)

2 - Azir has a Lazarus Pit/Pooly Pool of Life that heals people from the brink of death that was never mentioned before and indeed never is mentioned again.

If there is a better example of Deus Ex Machina in recent times, I'd love to know

26 Comments

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 201510 votes

Cliches

Here are my favorites:

"now, s/he wanders Valoran"
"quest for vengeance"
Needlessly unanswered questions

To combine all three:

Where is Pingu from? What happened to his people? Where did he acquire his Penguin-Blade? None can say. For now, he wanders Valoran in search of vengeance.

For the full effect, garnish with a flat restatement of the character's visual concept, e.g., "Pingu is a penguin."

Not so much cliches as…yeah

Then, there are these.

Nasus reading the scene descriptions off a storyboard in the voice of Olmec from Legends of the Hidden Temple, including:

THE ANCIENT WEAPON IS A KEY!
SHE…BETRAYS SIVIR!

I just imagined Nasus standing in a sound booth with a big poster showing the scenes of the cinematic with labels written in Sharpie.

Kalista's lore

It wasn't that it was badly written, as such; just that it was…completely unsurprising. I feel like we already knew this story as soon as we saw her concept. That, and…

"Behind the spirit’s anger, she sensed her empathy — recognition of their shared pain of betrayal."

http://memecrunch.com/meme/75OC/you-can-t-just-have-your-characters-announce-how-they-feel/image.png

That said, her gameplay mechanics did provide some material for more critical assessments of her character.

Lovecraft

Okay, I really like a lot of the Narrative team members, but can they please stop referring to Lovecraft? We get it. You've read Lovecraft. Yes, I think Lovecraft is great. Yes, I think the Cthulhu Mythos contains a lot of really mind-bendingly original concepts, including the remarkably modern innovation called "cosmic horror", a sort of post-scientific brand of horror built around incomprehensibly alien monstrosities that have no concept of human morality.

Still, it's become a really awkward cliche for them to randomly allude to Lovecraft when discussing the Void and spooky Champions. I have a few problems with this. First, it comes off as vaguely smug. Second, it's inappropriately so—this is League of Legends, an eminently cartoony and broad-strokes universe with a fairly bright aesthetic. Lovecraft's writing is like Samurai Jack's cartooning style—it works great in its intended context, but fares very poorly when transplanted. Lovecraft is all about humanity being overwhelmed by the infinite terrors of the cosmos. It's what you get when you take a normal person and collide them with a monster beyond human imagining.

In League, the typical character (that we focus on) is not a bookish gentleman with a bad case of the nerves sweating inside an overstarched suit. The typical Champion is basically a superhero. You can't throw Cthulhu into a Superman story. That gives you severe dissonance in the form of "Did you just punch out Cthluhu?".

I mean, sure, the Void can absorb some Lovecraft flavor. I think it's a great way to avoid turning the Void into basically "the Zerg dimension". Like in Lovecraft, you can have a lot of shambling half-human hybrid-horrors who've been contaminated by the Void, or eerie creatures crawling through from beyond our plane of existence.

But I feel like Lovecraft references are becoming a really awkward cliche.

If you can't say anything nice

I hasten to add that there has been some very good material as well. Sion's new lore was great, even though I'll miss Ahhhhhnuld Sion. I also enjoyed Rek'Sai's lore immensely.

Grand ViperFeb 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Snip

I got to say I love reading your posts, Cupcake Trap. Absolutely love them. And you have no idea when I read the "Lovecraftian influence" Rek'sai had and just cringing.

I suppose I should contribute to this thread though...

Give me a bit, I haven't slept and can't think quite properly.

libraryseraph Feb 13, 20158 votes

the biggest question raised by the new lore is why Nasus is so bad at narration and telling stories. He's an immortal demigod librarian, why is he the epitome of DULL SURPRISE?

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Lovecraft

Okay, I really like a lot of the Narrative team members, but can they please stop referring to Lovecraft? We get it. You've read Lovecraft. Yes, I think Lovecraft is great. Yes, I think the Cthulhu Mythos contains a lot of really mind-bendingly original concepts, including the remarkably modern innovation called "cosmic horror", a sort of post-scientific brand of horror built around incomprehensibly alien monstrosities that have no concept of human morality.

Still, it's become a really awkward cliche for them to randomly allude to Lovecraft when discussing the Void and spooky Champions. I have a few problems with this. First, it comes off as vaguely smug. Second, it's inappropriately so—this is League of Legends, an eminently cartoony and broad-strokes universe with a fairly bright aesthetic. Lovecraft's writing is like Samurai Jack's cartooning style—it works great in its intended context, but fares very poorly when transplanted. Lovecraft is all about humanity being overwhelmed by the infinite terrors of the cosmos. It's what you get when you take a normal person and collide them with a monster beyond human imagining.

In League, the typical character (that we focus on) is not a bookish gentleman with a bad case of the nerves sweating inside an overstarched suit. The typical Champion is basically a superhero. You can't throw Cthulhu into a Superman story. That gives you severe dissonance in the form of "Did you just punch out Cthluhu?".

I mean, sure, the Void can absorb some Lovecraft flavor. I think it's a great way to avoid turning the Void into basically "the Zerg dimension". Like in Lovecraft, you can have a lot of shambling half-human hybrid-horrors who've been contaminated by the Void, or eerie creatures crawling through from beyond our plane of existence.

But I feel like Lovecraft references are becoming a really awkward cliche.

They are cliché now actually, the market as of late is so flooded with this stuff it's hard not to be. I'd like to point something out as well, you said the typical champion is like a superhero, the whole point of true lovecraft tones is to have complete despair horror, the "hero" cannot win in the end, they either die, or go insane. Also, every void champion we have, has a personality, that although we may not be able to empathize with, we can identify. Lovecraft never attributed any personality to the old ones, a writing constituent he had did, August Derleth, and he "corrupted" the idea of them being beyond our state of mind, by giving them clear and concise goals, and morals. Many writers of the time actually hated him for doing this to the, cthulhu mythos, which he coined as well. The void characters aren't old ones even, they're closer to demons honestly, they have identifiable goals, they act independently, and they are extremely variable in form. (*Space demons? That sounds familiar?)

They weren't inspired by Lovecraft, what they were inspired by were bland horror tropes. Have you seen how little creative language they use in their short stories?

*...OH MY GOD, REVELATION. Dry language, space demons, and a complete disregard for an already existing canon, THEY'RE MATT WARD FANS DAMMIT! THE BANE OF WH40k's ORIGINAL FAN BASE!

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

They are cliché now actually, the market as of late is so flooded with this stuff it's hard not to be. I'd like to point something out as well, you said the typical champion is like a superhero, the whole point of true lovecraft tones is to have complete despair horror, the "hero" cannot win in the end, they either die, or go insane. Also, every void champion we have, has a personality, that although we may not be able to empathize with, we can identify. Lovecraft never attributed any personality to the old ones, a writing constituent he had did, August Derleth, and he "corrupted" the idea of them being beyond our state of mind, by giving them clear and concise goals, and morals. Many writers of the time actually hated him for doing this to the, cthulhu mythos, which he coined as well. The void characters aren't old ones even, they're closer to demons honestly, they have identifiable goals, they act independently, and they are extremely variable in form. (*Space demons? That sounds familiar?)

They weren't inspired by Lovecraft, what they were inspired by were bland horror tropes. Have you seen how little creative language they use in their short stories?

*...OH MY GOD, REVELATION. Dry language, space demons, and a complete disregard for an already existing canon, THEY'RE MATT WARD FANS DAMMIT! THE BANE OF WH40k's ORIGINAL FAN BASE!

I happen to agree. And not just in a bad way. In Factions, I use 40K "Chaos" imagery more often than Lovecraft. As you say, Lovecraft is all about completely alien beings, not malevolent demons from morality plays. Satan is not Lovecraftian. Lovecraftian monsters do not work as protagonists, or even POV characters; you're led to think that a Lovecraftian being's POV narration would be something like

BLARG ERTHAKLRTH AETRHOJKAE TRHIKEJA RGHAETRIKGHJ AETRHGJEATR HGIEPROAJGH AERJGHAE ERGJAERG IERAJG ERAIPGJAER GJ!@#$%@#$! @#$J!J!!~ JKEOIAJG @!J GOJG EROJG @ #P!J KGE EKGASE ---argegaoijergjargaaaaaaa,,,nn jkrgjkeiooi --- ////////////////////////////////////////!$%234tqt aaaggrgh

except that the letters wouldn't be on neat lines. Sure, humans attribute all kinds of thoughts and motivations to the Old Ones, and form cults around them, but I think it's pretty strongly implied in Lovecraft that these people are wrong.

Lovecraft is great, but that doesn't mean Narrative should be trying to use his aesthetic as part of the League pastiche. I'd rather see something more like Chaos from 40K, or (my latest favorite idea) the Shadows from Babylon 5: spooky, creepy monsters slipping out from between the stonework to whisper into Summoners' ears and ask what do you want?

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20152 votes

I actually read a bit of the void invasion arc from factions, I actually really liked it, a bit cornball, (GET ON MA CHOPPA!) but it really felt like the proper League universe, and I did get a hint of the 40K stuff with the sheer scale present, which was nice. I have been interested in factions for a while as well, but I don't entirely know where to start with it.

I also need to ask, is Kog'Maw our Uncle Nergal?

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I actually read a bit of the void invasion arc from factions, I actually really liked it, a bit cornball, (GET ON MA CHOPPA!) but it really felt like the proper League universe, and I did get a hint of the 40K stuff with the sheer scale present, which was nice. I have been interested in factions for a while as well, but I don't entirely know where to start with it.

I also need to ask, is Kog'Maw our Uncle Nergal?

Aw, thank you! I've always believed that League lore is meant to be a little derpy. I decided that an extradimensional reality-warping rift was a good opportunity to really go for broke with deliberate references, borrowing Pratchett's excuse that sometimes tropes echo across the multiverse.

(Technically, it was "GET OFF MY CHOPPAH!")

I think the 40K references were a bit heavy even in that context, with all the Kommissars and boltguns and things, but it seemed right for a Zaunite techno-army.

As for playing Factions, we're currently in Intermission between arcs, so it's a big free-for-all. There's more information on the Intermission Matches page. (Let me know if you have any problems.) It's a great time to try it out, because there's no need to declare for a faction or anything: just show up and start a match.

We're actually also on the lookout for more members of the lore team. I've really liked your lore analysis on Boards, and if you're interested, I'd be delighted to have you join in on some of our current projects. Friend me!

As for Nergal, I don't think we really have a Nergal yet. Kog'maw is too cute. Although, wow, there's an idea for a disaster plot: have something from the Void mix with an arcano-plague and create an enormous rot-monster.

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20152 votes

Glorious I Shall! Just a little cautious here though, I've been playing more DOTA than league as of late, because of the less strict meta mostly. Only some ARAMs here and there recently. Also, one big issue, I understand the factions (For the most part.), but I don't know of any I really lean towards, do you have a list of them and what they mean to their respective members on your site?

If you want my help with any kind of concept work, I'd be glad to help with a lot, I'm just not the best writer. If I write anything I like doing it in a script format.

And you're just straight-up lying if you don't think Nergal is some kawaii motha-fucking chaos right there.

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Glorious I Shall! Just a little cautious here though, I've been playing more DOTA than league as of late, because of the less strict meta mostly. Only some ARAMs here and there recently. Also, one big issue, I understand the factions (For the most part.), but I don't know of any I really lean towards, do you have a list of them and what they mean to their respective members on your site?

Gameplay-wise, the Intermission rosters are here.

More generally, that sounds like the Factions of Runeterra page, which will need revision before the next arc begins.

We're also working on a Factions wiki which will hopefully do a better job of briefly explaining where each faction is "at" right now.

GreenLoreFeb 13, 20156 votes

About your points: 1.Sivir agreed to protect cassiopeia,but putting her weapon into any weird keyholes belongs not to the contract,cassiopeia had not really much fighting ability,so that was her only chance.If sivir refused to put the weapon in there it would have been over(what if sivir was actually told by the ones who gave her the weapon to not use it as a key?What if sivir thought the tomb was sealed for a good reason?What if she simply didn't want to risk loosing her weapon?),not to mention that sivir was probably on the noxian "to-kill"-list anyway,so that was a good chance of getting rid of her and not needing to pay her too.

2.While the oasis was conveniently placed there it makes sense that if such a thing exists in shurima,then they'd built their capital on top of it.And of course it was never mentioned before,since we had almost no shurima lore before and didn't get anything about the capital of shurima after the event was over.

Overall I am not saying that they aren't cliches,but they are a lot more justified than you make them out to be.

Also its not like the lore didn't have cliches before,I mean varus is the guy who basically sold his life for vengance,there was this omnious group of wizards who have influence everywhere and are implied to be secretly evil all along,Champs who are ripped from their home worlds against their will,who will probably never see their friends and familiy and who adapt to this new world almost instantly,etc.

Seth LightheartFeb 13, 20155 votes

No..... Ra's Al Ghul Lazarus Pit was 100% deus ex machina. Who else uses anything else remotely like that, and you'd think that knowledge would pop-up on some hieroglyphics or something.

GreenLoreFeb 13, 20156 votes

Overall the big problem is that information about Shurima was really scarce,so it is not surprised we never heard of that oasis,because we never heard about anything in shurima at all,all shurima did was existing and being an origin place for Amumu , Xerath & Rammus (and rammus was simply born there he got his powers from a random magic rock in the plague jungle)

Seth LightheartFeb 13, 20153 votes

Lack of information can still be information, and when things randomly appear without foreshadowing it is by definition hackwork, such as deus ex machina.

Let give you an example: We find out Ezreal was a robot made out of Swiss cheese created by Galio 10,000 years ago to fight a clone amy of Gragas s. Well there was no information saying that this wasn't the case! But don't you think there might be something hinting at that, that huge? Maybe Galio hanging out with Ezreal a lot? Or Twitch 's strange fondness for him?

If Riot put in one line talking about everlasting life in one form or another it would be forshadowing. Without it, it is "deus ex machina" where quite literally a god like character walks onto the stage and fixes everything.

GreenLoreFeb 13, 20151 votes

Well that would be impossible already because we know that ezreal was in fact born by his parents :p

Anyway the problem is simply that they never expanded on Shurima. There was no foreshadowing for it because there was never anything in shurima that mattered at all.

I don't deny that the oasis came out of nowhere,but the problem for that lies more in the fact that they never bothered to establish their places in the old lore.

Seth LightheartFeb 13, 20151 votes

Did he have parents? Or were those implanted dreams made by Colby Jack robot Ahri ?!

But all jokes aside, it is bad writing. All it takes is one line to fix it. Cassiopeia was looking for eternal youth, or some magical item that created a fountain of youth as a bi-product of a magical source. Even that it a little hack, but better than what we got.

Please don't say that we didn't get enough information, it is just the information we get is quite shallow.

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20155 votes

How about the weapon being a key? May not be clichéd, but there is no appropriate answer as to why a key would be a giant glaive.

Also, who in their right mind, WOULD PUT AN OPENABLE DOOR ON XERATH'S PRISON? The old lore provided a much better answer, his prison just finally broke down.

Kalista is just another Bloody Mary in my opinion, just more Greek-looking.

Azir has little actual personality described in his story, instead relying on the game to give us any hints to it, and even then, there isn't much.

They like reworking our favorite characters into wandering murder-hoboes, because they're already kind of that, or they have a connection to the institute which the new "team" was too lazy to think of ideas for, here's a list of who: Aatrox Annie Chogath Fiddlesticks Fizz Gnar Gragas Janna Jax Jinx Kassadin Khazix Kayle KogMaw Leona Diana Malphite Maokai Morgana Nami Nautilus Nocturne Nidalee Nunu Rammus Renekton Rengar Syndra TwistedFate Udyr Varus Vayne Xerath Yasuo Zac Zilean Zyra

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 20154 votes

{quoted}

How about the weapon being a key? May not be clichéd, but there is no appropriate answer as to why a key would be a giant glaive.

Once, I was trapped in a museum. (Ezreal pranked me, because he was mad at me for feeding with him.) I thought I'd never get out. But then I noticed there was a giant broadsword from the Rune Wars on the wall, and I shoved that through the lock.

THE ANCIENT WEAPON WAS A KEY!

"Actually, no, CupcakeTrap, it wasn't. It was just an ancient weapon. That you damaged by shoving through a hexed lock. Now it's a damaged ancient weapon. … also a damaged door. What I'm saying is, the Institute is garnishing your match winnings now."

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20154 votes

Was there even really a door? Or did Cass just jimmy out some of the rocks blocking in Xerath? I wonder now.

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Was there even really a door? Or did Cass just jimmy out some of the rocks blocking in Xerath? I wonder now.

I Kalista is just another Bloody Mary in my opinion, just more Greek-looking.

Well, I think the intended reference is to the Furies. She's not quite as cool, though. She's not crying blood. And she doesn't have a whip. And I don't get why her name is an Eris reference; the Furies had better names.

Azir has little actual personality described in his story, instead relying on the game to give us any hints to it, and even then, there isn't much.

"THE ORDER IS GIVEN!"

This made me imagine a waiter Azir. There then followed a match of me annoying my friends with endless,

"I'll have the chicken fingers." "THE ORDER IS GIVEN!" "And a burger, maybe medium-rare?" "THE ORDER IS GIVEN!"

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

:3

Well, I think the intended reference is to the Furies. She's not quite as cool, though. She's not crying blood. And she doesn't have a whip. And I don't get why her name is an Eris reference; the Furies had better names.

The furies were also pretty one dimensional as well, they also had Jackal heads, and wings in some accounts. Eris was the goddess of discord, but given on their part the best alternative names for her would've been Nemesis, or Andraste, if they still wanted a goddess name.

"THE ORDER IS GIVEN!"

This made me imagine a waiter Azir. There then followed a match of me annoying my friends with endless,

"I'll have the chicken fingers." "THE ORDER IS GIVEN!" "And a burger, maybe medium-rare?" "THE ORDER IS GIVEN!"

Debonair Azir confirmed. (Not actually a bad idea, his soldiers could all be members of a jazz band.)

CupcakeTrapFeb 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The furies were also pretty one dimensional as well, they also had Jackal heads, and wings in some accounts. Eris was the goddess of discord, but given on their part the best alternative names for her would've been Nemesis, or Andraste, if they still wanted a goddess name.

I meant in the sense of her name being Kalista:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aNZYZGASNjA/hqdefault.jpg

like the Apple of Discord. (Inscribed kallistei, which then caused all the lady-goddesses to go berserk fighting over which one of them was the prettiest and would get the shiny golden thing. …yeah, okay, the Greeks had some gender issues.)

{quoted}

Debonair Azir confirmed. (Not actually a bad idea, his soldiers could all be members of a jazz band.)

Members of a jazz band? Yeah, something like that. I mean, not necessarily that, but not necessarily not that.

…what I'm saying is that I may literally die if I don't get that.

DotintheparadoxFeb 13, 20152 votes

I didn't know the apple said that, I just thought it said "To the fairest."

But she does take a bit of inspiration from this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(mythology), the bear stuff puts weird thoughts in my head considering our bear-like champs. Just speculating as well, I also think it may lead to Kalista being an old queen of the Solari who was killed by the original Lunari, leading to their destruction.

Seth LightheartFeb 13, 20152 votes

Tristana : I'm small but i'm tough! (I'm totally not G.I. Jane by the way)

sealustFeb 13, 20151 votes

Dude, the new Shurima lore is so messed, well, mainly what happens in the whole temple thing, mostly Cassiopea. ...Yeah, I really don't like Cass's new lore.