You're Vastaya! And you're Vastaya! EVERYONE IS VASTAYA

AbiwonKenabi··9 votes·5,961 views

Seriously, why is this brand new blanket term being applied to any champion that has some kind of animal power and/or physical feature?

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ohvOC0q7Ucs/WOKN7p1WmxI/AAAAAAAAhKs/4tEXfKPf33QroaglOcqrskhwcjPt-CMkwCLcB/s1600/image%2B%252811%2529.png

I was listening to the Xayah interactions and she has quite a few with the other Vastaya. For those who aren't aware, Vastaya are this order or class (not necessarily a species according to this in-universe journal entry, but instead a more general taxonomic classification) that are combinations of human and one or more animals, very chimeric in nature. The new champions' lore is implied to be very reliant on their heritage as Vastaya, particularly Xayah who is a rebel for their cause (whatever that will entail, lore details to follow). Both Rakan and Xayah interact with the Vastaya, giving us a good indication of who else falls under this term.

Literally, every Champion that has qualities of an animal or turns into an animal that isn't already classified as a Yordle: Vastaya. Every single one of them.

With some Champions (particularly Rengar ) whose origins are unexplained, this makes sense. And while with Ahri Ahri in particular I thought her origin story already sufficiently explained, Xayah and Rakan were obviously designed to look a lot like Ahri and are even from the same region, Ionia. My problem comes with the fact that it feels like it sort of waters down a lot of Champion's backstories. It was a detail that either didn't need explaining or isn't a satisfying explanation.

Just to give you an idea, I'll list the Champs in question and briefly talk about why I think this is a silly blanket term that--while fine on Rakan and Xayah who were written with this term in mind--doesn't contribute to other Champions' lore in a meaningful way:

Ahri Ahri - explained above Nami Nami - Her species already had a name: the Marai. What does it add by knowing the Marai are Vastaya as well? I didn't think we needed explained why there was a race of mermaids living in the ocean: we just figured they existed and that was enough. Adds nothing to Nami's narrative. Nidalee Nidalee - her place on this list implies a retcon, either that or she became a Vastaya, formerly human. Either way, again, I think this is a case of "this was never a question we were asking". Nidalee can turn into a cougar because she was raised in the dangerous, magical jungle. We didn't need a taxonomic classification to explain that. Rengar Rengar - Probably the only one that makes sense, given (if I remember correctly) he was found and raised by a regular human guy and doesn't really know his own origins. That said, Rengar's story works surprisingly well without knowing what he is. He's the best hunter, the lion visuals are just fun champion design. Swain Swain - Another one that needed the origin of his powers explained but uh...if it turns out it's just in his blood I'm going to be a little disappointed. Swain is a tactical genius, I figure he tricked some hag into transferring her powers or something, or befriended his raven Beatrice with his intellect. I don't know, something befitting of the Master Tactician. Udyr Udyr - I don't know why he's even on this list, considering I felt his powers were already sufficiently explained. I always thought Udyr was about connecting with nature and animals on a spiritual level, mastering his powers by meditation and study. Being Vastaya or having Vastaya blood or whatever sort of ruins that. MonkeyKing Wukong - Again, another one where this is fine, but didn't need an explanation. They just wanted to be thorough, I guess and include every animal possible.

Notable exceptions here are Anivia, Elise and...I think I'm missing one. But look at that list! That's almost every champion with a somewhat human appearance and other animal characteristics. The reason I don't like the Vastaya term is that it makes these champs feel a little same-y. Like, before, Nami and Nidalee were very distinct characters that you would never confuse. But now oh look, they belong to the same species. And yeah, the journal entry explains that it's more like a larger classification like an order or class, but who else other than the lore nuts (like me) is going to read that? Who is going to care?

I will leave with the statement that we don't know all the facts, Xayah and Rakan's lores have not been released in full yet and something may change my mind. But for the time being, I am a little baffled.

67 Comments

Sharjo16 votes

So a few things:

  1. Not everyone's vastaya, far from it. It'll be clear soon who are the vastaya in the roster, but to give a bit of a hint the amount is in the single digits.
  2. Those champions who're considered shapeshifters aren't true vastaya.
  3. The vastaya aren't a species. They're a large, diverse collection of species with a shared origin that traces back a long time ago. The journal explains this.
  4. Vastayan tribes have names of their own, so in the case of Nami, nothing changes there.

Also:

ut look at that list! That's almost every champion with a somewhat human appearance and other animal characteristics.

You missed a whole bunch of champions like Alistar, Volibear, Nasus, Renekton, Azir and Cassiopeia.

AbiwonKenabi2 votes
  1. You're right on this, I did miss a few. Cass was the big one I was trying to think of. I just find that a term that didn't exist a couple of weeks ago that now applies to like 10 champions is a little weird. It feels awkwardly tied into their lore because these Champs were written years before the term "Vastaya" was even thought of.

  2. The shapeshifters thing hasn't been totally explained yet, this may need Xayah and Rakan's lore for context. I am merely going off of quotes and the quotes imply these shapeshifters have some connection to the Vastaya. That they didn't have before.

  3. I know this, I even address it in my post, but most people don't read every bit of lore Riot releases like I (and presumably you) do. Regardless, I think making a Vastaya "order" is sort of pointless as most people don't make this distinction between species and order. The real life Phylum Arthropod includes spiders, ants, butterflies, scorpions, crabs and loads of other varied and unique species. Like how far up the classification system are we going here? Even further, most people refer to them all as "bugs" which is a really unhelpful blanket term that doesn't even begin to describe all the diversity of this phylum.

Or what about an order like Perissodactyla? This includes species like horses, tapirs and rhinos. It's a helpful classification of mammals with an odd number of toes and hindgut fermentation but it's not very good at getting down to what makes each species unique. When creating characters in a story, I think the "order" they belong to is not very helpful in getting down to what is unique about them.

Don't even get me started on how unscientific and not an order at all the term "Vastaya" actually is. I would call it what taxonomists call an artificial group, but I digress. Different subject entirely.

  1. Ok, Vastaya have tribes names, fine. My point was this changes nothing about how we view Nami. "Ok, she's Marai, but what is she really?" is anyone asking for further classification beyond Marai? It doesn't help the plot or her character. We don't need to know that Garen belongs to the species humans, order of primates, to know that he fights for his "tribe" (country in his case) Demacia and was raised on it's values. I know being human doesn't need explaining, but you get the point. His "tribe" is the important part, not what animal he is. Same with Nami in particular. Her tribe "Marai" are sea-dwelling people being threatened by the dangers of the sea. That's all we need to know, and this minor detail of "oh, and she's Vastaya" doesn't really change the story, doesn't add anything, and just classifies Nami in a group that doesn't make her more unique. Makes her less, if anything else.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I think a bit of what bothers you is that they are doing retcon at all. Am I reading that right?

I'm still with you on that. It DOES feel weird to suddenly retcon Swain and Nidalee to having Vastayan blood. I sympathize with that.

But I've mostly gotten used to it... I now see it as an opportunity for Riot to make those champs deeper and more interesting, which is something they have been delivering big on these days.

You say that knowing someone is Vastayan doesn't add anything... but I think it's too early to make that call. Don't forget that the only material we have so far is basically a champ teaser for the new champs. There's a lot more to this out there that hasn't yet been released. It seems to me that the world-building team DOES have a great plan out there for all of this stuff. Since the retcon, it feels very much like they have meaningfully expanded the universe.

It's SUPPOSED to be kinda mysterious at this stage, to keep us interested. I agree that if they don't take it deeper, this is a waste. I also think there's 0 chance of that happening. It's going deeper, sooner or later (and I hope sooner).

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

I do think most retcons in general bother me, I can admit that. But I'm also willing to admit when Riot does a good job retconning something into something really cool. Like, I recently read Vayne's new lore and loved it (of course I guess there wasn't much retcon, but still. I'm not a "don't like it cuz it's new" person at all.) I don't dislike retcons, I just don't like changing something that wasn't formerly a problem. Change for the sake of change isn't inherently good. Comic books do retcons all the time, but it's usually after years of running and they need something new. These Champions' stories didn't need to be freshened up because they weren't played out yet, most of these stories were in need of continuation and development before they decide to change something.

I'm not at all against Vastaya existing, I just think it's a little awkward that suddenly all these other champs are Vastaya as well. Rakan and Xayah will be interesting because they were written around this term, it's integral to their stories and they couldn't be characters without it. All these other Champs have decent stories going for them, so the added Vastaya thing is unnecessary and poorly integrated at this point.

Here's my biggest pet peeve about retcons: Riot will change something, but then not address this change for all characters. This is a great example. So we're left in this limbo where we don't know what's still true anymore, until they eventually give us some lore bits that correct us. For example, the League of Legends was mentioned in Jax's story for years. When they retconned the League out, they just said "hey, the League and the Institute of War don't exist anymore" but then they took forever to change everyone's lore to take out mention of the League. Jax's lore sat for years with his old story of being the best in the League, so he basically sat for years with no story, at least none that actually mattered. Not even a short blurb of a story.

That's what bothers me the most. Fine, a change, but when will we hear details about how this affects everything? As I said in my OP, maybe they will surprise me and a bunch of lore will come out that makes everything fall neatly into place, but right now I am skeptical.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

You're absolutely right about that. The original retcon was VERY bungled, imo, because they announced it before they were ready with all the champ bios, at the very least. I think they DO need to do a better job implementing those changes across all champs when they happen.

On this particular story, though, I think it's not something that big. I think that people are expecting this term to mean more than was intended; it's literally just a catch-all for human-animal hybrids. It doesn't change the backstories of those champs at all, and I don't see any reason to be upset about calling Rengar and Ahri a new word. All it is is a term that came about in Ionia for referring to these people who are animal hybrids. The existence of the term enriches the world a bit; it shows that the scholars in this universe have thought about these creatures and categorized them. It's just a word that scholars in that world use. It doesn't mean anything more specific than that.

To me, this would be like complaining that we came up with a word for "sea-cows." They are just "manatees." It's what biologists call them. Calling them manatees instead of sea-cows doesn't change anything.

They didn't change Ahri and Rengar (etc) so much as they added a bunch MORE of these animal hybrids to the world. Ahri and rengar are less "special" now, because we have a better understanding of their origins. But it doesn't change anything about them.

TheLastShadow453 votes

Nasus, Renekton, Azir

Would you really consider them Vastaya? They were once human who ascended into god forms.

Cassiopeia

She was a normal human but now cursed with her form. I personally wouldn't consider her Vastayan.

Sharjo5 votes

Of course not, but OP was talking about the anthro champs so I pointed out the ones they missed, regardless of their lore. I know they're Ascended and Cass is cursed and definetly not vastayan.

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

Yeah but I thought the same thing about Nid, Udyr and Ahri, that they already had an explanation as to why they were what they were, that they definitely weren't Vastaya. Yet, it's heavily implied they are. It's a very inconsistent term at this point and I still need convincing that it's even necessary.

Jeddy0174 votes

Okay, so they're Vastaya......................................AND? Them being Vastaya doesn't automatically changes anything about them. Nami is still Nami & her story will likely stay relatively the same. I expect there to be minor changes here & there, but it's not like they're changing her into a pirate/navigator with a weather controlling staff just because she's Vastayan now.

I don't really see the problem here.

Korios4 votes

I'm a Vastaya!

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

Are there any other Vastayas I need to know about here?

Korios4 votes

_Gary shows up _ "Meow"

Glory ln Death4 votes

Giving many of the champions an actual background is a very good thing. When you read through lore and start seeing tons of "random monster thing", "another random monster thing", "3 more random monster things" that all seem like they have no relation to anything else, it makes the world seem random and not make any sense. Why are there so many random monster things that all seem like completely different species? How many different sentient beings are there in this world?

Now, we learn about the Vastaya. Ok, that clarifies things. These champions and many of these beings are all related. They appear different because they are descended from shapeshifters (and some are shapeshifters), so they changed to adapt to their different environments. They are sentient and intelligent because half of their ancestry is from humans. Nami is a mermaid person? Cool. She's also Vastaya? Awesome, now we know where her people came from and how they fit into the world at large.

As it was, there were way too many random, intelligent species. The concept of Vastaya reigns that in and helps us make sense of it.

Prophet of Urgod3 votes

[deleted]

GreenLore4 votes

Neither are CassiopeiaEliseAzirNasusRenektonHecarimSkarner

50000000000000001 votes

Speaking of Hecarim, it'd be cool to see what happens when the Black Mist and Vastaya interacts.

GreenLore1 votes

Undead Vastaya is actually a pretty cool idea. Maybe a bat related one?

The Anagram King3 votes

Riot's lore is getting uncoordinated. It's like they tamper with the continuity just for the sake of tampering with it, They'll assure the naysayers that it's part of something bigger, then mess with the new continuity before the old one makes sense.

I know it's kind've obvious, seeing as it's taken them multiple years to even get to this point in the retcon, but I doubt there's a tangible long-term lore plan, here. It feels messy at the best of times.

Klatumatu2 votes

Elise became a spider because of the shadow isles if i remember correctly, she prays to the spider god there that we can see in twisted treeline to keep her beauty.

so i don't think she has to be releated to the vastaya.

I have no idea why they made Udyr and Nidalee releated to vastaya as they don't resemble them at all, nidalee dosn't have cute ears and i doubt Udyr has any.

I love how Alistar is just a cow tho like no one cares about his lore

RogueWill3 votes

Alistar shoudl have been a Vastaya, his lore says he is the only one left of his race that where sold as gladiator. He coudl fall under the same categorical as nami

Klatumatu2 votes

He's the only Cow left, there is absolutly nothing magical about him... right?

Glory ln Death1 votes

There has to be some magical explanation for why I can't milk that...

Sharjo2 votes

You can't milk that because he lacks an udder silly!

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

See I guessed Wukong and Rengar would be related to the Vastaya, but Udyr and Nidalee and Swain confuse me. So I was like "Why not Elise? How is she that much different from Nidalee in how she got her transformation powers?" I guess because Nid didn't get it from an actual being, just from ambient magic of the jungle? I don't know...

It's just a detail that raises more questions than it answers. And not in a good way, not in an "I'm intrigued" way.

Klatumatu2 votes

let's start a petition to make Nidalee have vastaya ears.

either you go Vastaya or you don't we don't tolerate anything else here :<

RogueWill1 votes

Also Yordles are Vastaya, but since we have so many is as if they have a distiction

Sharjo7 votes

Yordles are absoluetly not vastraya.

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

I don't even know what Yordles are anymore. RIP Bandle City, magical REAL place that people could visit.

Sharjo2 votes

Bandle City's still a real place, just folks can't reliably go there.

RogueWill3 votes

Isn't one of the quotes "Yordles, you are the reason no one take the Vastaya seriously" That's pretty much a confirmation that they are vastaya

Sharjo6 votes

Just because both beings are innately magical doesn't make them one and the same. if that was true folks like Taliyah and Lux would be vastaya too.

Like I've said before in other places the vastaya trace their origin back to a specific history. If you don't have that lineage you're not vastaya.

RogueWill

what specific history? they are all over the place. Ahri and MonkeyKing are ionian, Nami is closer to blidgewater. Rengar and Nidalee and from the jungle and Udyr is form the freijlord. Tell me again how is that specific?

Sharjo2 votes

Don't wanna entirely spoil it, but Eduardo talked about it a bit and it will be touched on in more detail very soon.

50000000000000001 votes

Humans are also all over the place, and (probably) came from the same ancestors.

RogueWill1 votes

yeah but the champions themseves aren't tied up. If you mean their ancestror does then goes back that the while tribes where they come from should be tied too, while this concept works for rengar which his origins are unknow, it doesn't work for wukong, ahri, udyr and nidalee where you know where they come from. Unless they do a recon on Udyr he is this dude that found this power after meditating like lee sin recommended.

50000000000000001 votes

But being a Vastaya is just a large categorization, who shared a very old ancestry. Not all Vastayans have the same creed, birthplace, or even abilities. And for some, it doesn't even have to be retcons. Nidalee could have become Vastaya through magic of the Kumungu jungle (which we haven't explored yet) since Vastayans are magical beings. And for others it can just be very small changes to match the old lore as well.

There's also a possibility of people of Runeterra calling them Vastaya because they look like Vastayans, even though that's not entirely true. I doubt this is the case, but Rakan calls Vladimir a vampire (despite being confirmed to not be a vampire), so it's still possible, I think.

Glory ln Death2 votes

Sharjo has declared that they are not Vastaya. Since he's working with Riot's lore department now, he has access to this kind of information. Unless an official, lore Rioter comes in and corrects him, Sharjo's word is canon.

All hail The Sharjo.

50000000000000001 votes

I think he said somewhere that he didn't like being called "the" Sharjo.

All hail Sharjo.

Glory ln Death1 votes

Who ever said that The Sharjo had a choice in what The Sharjo is called? That isn't part of the lore, so The Sharjo has no power in this regard. The Sharjo will just have to deal with it.

All hail The Sharjo.

Korios1 votes

Is Volibear from a tribe that originates in the Vastaya? (Like Nami?)

Sharjo3 votes

There are plans for the Ursine, but not related to the vastaya as far as I know.

VoraciousX1 votes

Why are people considering Vastaya to be an "it's in your blood" thing. I dunno if you actually read the thing or not. When he asked the tribe if they were created through physical or magical activities(basically asking if they had sex or it was some sort of magic ritual), they kicked him out and were tight lipped about it. This means that both could be true. I don't think it takes away from any character or not, sure it brings some characters closer in terms of classification, but I don't think it takes anything away at all. But I really don't understand why I keep seeing things like "Vastayan blood" and whatnot, when it was clearly shown that it doesn't have to be some passed down trait from parent to child.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

I figured they threw him out because that's kind of a sensitive subject in most cultures, just asking about sex all casually. The reason I say "Vastayan blood" is because, well, they threw him out and didn't answer the question. So we have no idea. I just assumed it was lineage based on the way Xayah talks about her people. I suppose I could be wrong.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

I figured they threw him out because that's kind of a sensitive subject in most cultures, just asking about sex all casually. The reason I say "Vastayan blood" is because, well, they threw him out and didn't answer the question. So we have no idea. I just assumed it was lineage based on the way Xayah talks about her people. I suppose I could be wrong.

Considering how diverse the Vastaya are, it'd only make sense that their ways of being created are also just as diverse.

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

If they have different ways of being created, by definition they probably don't belong to the same taxonomic group

EpicDweeb1 votes

Keep in mind, this isn't something they're doing just for the sake of explanation. The realization that there is a new kind of creature in Runeterra doesn't just give reasoning for past stuff, it gives us new possibilities for the future of LoL lore and for champions/characters in general. To be fair I think they needed to add the Vastaya for Rakan and Xayah's Xayah release. I'm not really sure how their lore would have worked without it. I suppose they would have done some cheesy story about how they were once one great being who was torn apart, and different attributes were distributed among the two, now they can't fly without each other yada yada yada. But I think this makes more sense. The fact that they made two characters who are both the same kind of creature means that they can either give that weird explination, or they can reveal that vastaya exist and that there are more of them out there.

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

It's not really Xayah and Rakan I have a problem with, they were designed with the term in mind, so it's more defined for them. It's integral for their lore. What I don't really like is that the term was tacked on to a lot of other Champions who were NOT designed with the term in mind, so now we have a bunch of uncertainty as to if their stories have changed significantly or not.

EpicDweeb1 votes

{quoted}

It's not really Xayah and Rakan I have a problem with, they were designed with the term in mind, so it's more defined for them. It's integral for their lore. What I don't really like is that the term was tacked on to a lot of other Champions who were NOT designed with the term in mind, so now we have a bunch of uncertainty as to if their stories have changed significantly or not.

Keep in mind, the explorer/scientist who was researching the Vastaya made assumptions about certain characters being vastaya. Point and case... AhriAhri We know from her lore that she is not a Vastaya (unless they changed it since last I checked). However, while doing his research he made assumptions regarding the nature of certain creatures. Ahri isn't vastaya, she's a nine tails fox who was transformed into a human/fox hybrid, which while that may technically qualify her as vastaya, she isn't one in the same way Rakan and Xayah are. We don't know where Rengar came from so it's very possible that he's a vastaya, but for characters like Nidalee , Swain , and Udyr we have no reason to believe they are simply vastaya. Being vastaya does not just mean anyone who seems to be human/animal hybrid. Swain isn't always a bird, he's capable of transforming into one. Udyr isn't part animal, he's simply able to channel their spirits. Nothing we know about the vastaya implies that they are capable of transformation. Admittedly I haven't looked back at the lore to find out if they changed Ahri , Swain , Udyr , and Nidalee's lore, but there's no reason to assume that it will change. Perhaps it will for Ahri but even then I somewhat doubt that.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

Every Champion I listed produces some kind of quote interaction (taunts, kills, etc) from Xayah, Rakan, or both, indicating they are Vastayan. I guess it's possible even Xayah and Rakan themselves are making some assumptions but that would be really strange for Riot to include.

Some of the quotes are specific to the Champions, but there's also a set of generic quotes for every Vastaya. I'm not just making unfounded leaps in logic, as I agree being any kind of human animal hybrid should not put you in the same genus or phylum or whatever classification the are calling it. This is all based on Champion interactions from our 100% confirmed Vastaya to OTHER presumed Vastaya.

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