I feel like Riot's skin team isn't on the same page as champion design.

Destínum··25 votes·12,173 views

It's never been a secret that Officer Caitlyn is supposed to be a "stripper-dressed-as-a-cop" rather than an actual police officer. It's acceptable because the skin was made when Riot was still in their "teenage" years, and Caitlyn is a pretty sexualized character anyways.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111005043436/leagueoflegends/images/2/23/Caitlyn_OfficerSkin.jpg

Then the champion designers goes and creates Vi: A tomboy that isn't afraid to show that she is female (ex. pink hair), but is definitely not eyecandy.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121212052715/leagueoflegends/images/a/a0/Vi_OriginalSkin.jpg

Then the skin team gives her a skin of the same theme. I'm personally not a fan of it because it doesn't fit the character, but I can look the other way considering it's a "matching skin" (since she and Caitlyn are partners) and it was released as kind of a halloween costume. The also only made her sexualized because it was part of the skin theme.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141116061957/leagueoflegends/images/2/20/Vi_OfficerSkin.jpg

And then they make these in the same skin serie:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0IaO5dv_KY/VGrjohKzaVI/AAAAAAAAdik/wo1Y4LZC5a4/s1600/Trundle_Splash_4.jpg

Oh look, now there's a troll and a bear who are easier to take seriously than the two people who are actual police officers lore-wise.

Other skin-themes have the same problem. The medical skins for the ninjas for example (although those skins are older, but still).

I feel like while the rest of Riot's design team are growing up, the skin team is still locked up inside it's mom's basement.

89 Comments

Plus50g19 votes

I agree, it's kinda the same problem I have with a certain Riven skin that I won't name out of fear of being burned in a bonfire, just it's worse here as, what you just said, Voli and Trundle, look a lot more like cops, then, well the cops.

+1 Riot Plz

Meep Man8 votes

The only reason THAT Riven skin is acceptable is because it is the exact of what Riven is and is completely random in every way possible. Its so random that it is comical. It would be like making a Battle Bunny Nasus, so WTF it is acceptable.

Plus50g5 votes

Its so random that it is comical.

I haven't seen anybody laughing at THAT skin only ...uhhh....fapping. It's creation was because it was a fan idea, and it shows.

Diahane7 votes

Its so random that it is comical.

I haven't seen anybody laughing at THAT skin only ...uhhh....fapping. It's creation was because it was a fan idea, and it shows.

I laugh every time I think about the name. Battle Bunny. BATTLE Bunny. It's my favourite skin and it belongs to my favourite character, whom I like because she's a strong female character, so it's not about the sexiness. It's about the hilarity. You get Riven, a most tough Noxian warrior wielding a giant sword, hopping onto her foes and deleting them dressed as a bunny. The dischrasy between the looks of it and her character and actions is so total that it's absurdly fun. It's one of the aspects of comic sense incarnated. There was an italian Nobel prize author, Pirandello, theorizing about this "perception of the contrary" as the source of comic sense (then he distinguished humour as the "feeling of the contrary", but it gets too complicated and I don't recall it that well from my old school studies), so I'm not saying it without thinking about it, I'm referring to this kind of comic sense intentionally.

(Besides, if it only takes that skin's splash art for people to fap, there's a more serious problem to discuss.)

Plus50g2 votes

...When you think about, Riven killing, like Darius like that, is pretty funny XD. But I don't think that was Riots intent. But still Bunny Suit > Bulky Armor? XD...jk Kappa.

5G8Nri0B544 votes

No.

Part of why it fits Riven is also because of it's homage to Playboy bunnies and the fact that she hops around like crazy.

Even something like say....Easter Bunny Pantheon with a giant carrot for a spear would be more fitting than Nasus as atleast Pantheon has two abilities that has him hopping around.

PentaSho18 votes

Skins are for fun, and not connected to the lore in any way.

Destínum6 votes

Still doesn't mean they should be designed differently only based on character gender and not character theme.

PentaSho4 votes

I misunderstood. You're pointing out inconsistencies between skins of the same type, correct? I could see an argument being made for that.

Destínum5 votes

Yeah, exactly. I don't mind skins of the same theme being different from character to character, but when those differences are solely based on if the champion is male or female, that's where I see a problem.

PentaSho10 votes

I would also like to point out that the Captain Volibear and Constable Trundle skins are being released with Safecracker Eve and Pickpocket Twitch. They may be going for a Sly Cooper vibe more than an Officer theme. "Officer" being missing from the Volibear and Trundle skins also leads me to believe that they are thematically separate from the Cait and Vi skins.

Destínum10 votes

Judging from their announcement thread, they seem to be doing both:

With loose cannons like Jinx wreaking havoc in Runeterra among others, it's hard for Officer Caitlyn to keep up! Good news for her, she's getting back up! Introducing Captain Volibear and Constable Trundle!

PentaSho2 votes

Good point, too.

Malgana3 votes

Yeah, exactly. I don't mind skins of the same theme being different from character to character, but when those differences are solely based on if the champion is male or female, that's where I see a problem.

I don't see how it's based off of them being male and female...it's hard to make a troll and a bear look sexy.

One ayyed king3 votes

"only based on character gender" I think it has more to do with them not even being human than them being males. I also think that Cait and Vi actual being police officers in the lore is why there skins are less serious.

Sukishoo18 votes

Not really. Some of the skins are connected to the lore, but most aren't.

PentaSho1 votes

Which skins are connected to the lore? Note: skins that make sense thematically for a champion =/= lore.

Destínum3 votes

Blood moon Akali and Shen for example, as well as Divine Soraka.

PentaSho3 votes

Bringing in the big guns with the Journals I see. Fair enough, points for everybody.

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

Which skins are connected to the lore? Note: skins that make sense thematically for a champion =/= lore.

Also not mentioned by them is before the retcon the masquerade evelynn and TF to show them as a couple

turkeyBACON5 votes

Tango Eve and TF; not masquerade.

ShadowGlaive2133 votes

Freljord Ashe (Battle on the Tundra) and Queen Ashe and King Tryn (marriage).

Chaos Concordant11 votes

Welcome to the reason why most of us older gamers sometimes feel uncomfortable admitting such in public. Tits and ass. There's an embarrassingly small roster of female warriors who look like they're actually dressed for a fight. Kayle actually wears armour! A full set of plate armour! Then you have Kat or Jinx who looks like they're wearing a kinky outfit for their significant other's titillation.

Final GirI9 votes

I like the sexualization. I'm a gay man. I think it looks sexy, so there for, I like how it looks, I like playing good looking characters. I'm not going to buy a boring skin. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The whining here is literally deafening.

Grand Eleven4 votes

ITT: people literally using the word literally wrong.

Final GirI1 votes

Definition of Literally

in a literal manner or sense; exactly.

Synonyms for the word Literally

exactly, precisely, actually, really, truly

Now. when I said the whining here is literally deafening. I meant it is really deafening, or truly deafening, or even actually deafening. Nice try though, trying to correct my grammar that is. Next time, if you want to try and make fun of someone's grammar, maybe you should learn proper grammar yourself.

Grand Eleven2 votes

That fact that you think you actually made a point makes this even more hilarious. (See what I did there? I used the word "actually" properly).

Final GirI2 votes

So now that I called you out on not knowing the actual definition for a word, you go straight to being rude. It's funny how quickly people on the boards turn to children.

Diahane7 votes

I'm probably stepping in a den of lions, but whenever I stumble upon threads like this a question comes to my mind: why any display of sexiness from a female figure makes people scream about the objectification of women and of strippers (as if they were evil incarnated and didn't have any human dimension), while an analogous display from a male character doesn't raise any objection nor commotion? The male body too is objectified, just look at the latest movie trends when it comes to muscles, the bar has been raised a whole lot and shirtless scenes are really common. I'd say there are actually two male body types being enforced to us as society's standard: the skinny one and the good-looking-muscled one (as opposed to the strongman-muscled one, which is very different). Why isn't anyone discussing it? Why it's always a matter of how much skin female characters show? Why can guys be represented as muscled and shirtless but female wearing miniskirts are deemed "strippers"? Why should the profession of stripper be used as a denigrative term? Can't strippers be human being like all the rest and have a human dimension which goes beyond the act of stripping they perform at work? Besides, scantily clad women equating to "strippers" or to sexualized objects or to "whores" is pretty primitive and goes back to the chauvinist conception that women who dress like that are no good. Can't a woman choose how much of her body show, in which manner and what it does mean for her? Are miniskirts and cleavage showing dresses only a sign of low moral or the will to play the sexual object part? Can't a dignified and proud woman just dress however she pleases and maybe feel good about it, because she thinks she really looks beautiful that way, without having to think about people pointing her as an object?

I'm a man and if I were a handsome muscled one I would have no problem showing it (not going shirtless though, we're not in a movie and scantily clad women don't do that either), but would that mean I would be a male stripper? Would that mean that I'm bending myself to the image of men the media feed us and just being an eye-candy for women?

How a person dresses and presents her-/him-self has obviously a lot of repercussions in the interactions with those surrounding said person, but it should be kept in mind that looks are not a sign of moral fibre and people should be free to express themselves with their looks as a mean of self-discovery and self-satisfaction too.

cshakes1 votes

Well, firstly, what women find attractive in men is not what men think women find attractive in men. Hypermuscled men are a male power fantasy, while sexeh strippah ladiez are a male sexual fantasy. League doesn't really have anything I'd class as a pure female power fantasy, since nearly all female champions are portrayed as being within the realm of conventionally attractive in face and body type. And no, skimpy clothing isn't "empowering".

Diahane2 votes

Well, firstly, what women find attractive in men is not what men think women find attractive in men. Hypermuscled men are a male power fantasy, while sexeh strippah ladiez are a male sexual fantasy.

Tell this to Chris Hemsworth or Chris Evans fangirls =P Tom Hiddleston would instead be an example of the skinny body type having a lot of market with women. I do agree that there's a plain dyscrasy in what women want and what men perceive as being wanted by women, but I wouldn't say that muscled men are ruled out. Citing the link you provided, it is true that Hugh Jackman bulging-veined is a sight liked by men, while a women's magazine had him rather donning a sweater and smiling, but that doesn't mean that no woman likes muscles. I think that the skinny, "feminine" type of guy a la Loki is actually more popular nowadays (especially in eastern countries), but this doesn't invalidate the fact that male characters in League have primarily two body types, muscled and skinny, and that male bodies are being objectified in advertisement just as female ones. We could argue all day whether advertisers are doing it right by understanding what women want or are just enforcing their stereotypes on society, but anyway we end at the same point: if women actually like what advertisers do, they'll keep doing it and there will be a positive feedback which will amplify the effect, if they don't and advertisers keep enforcing stereotypes there's the serious possibility for those stereotypes to be forced to become true and we're back to case A. I read an article some time ago explaining of a certain beer brand in the USA which through marketing imposed the view that beer should be drunk ice cold and that their beer was better because served that way. Their beer wasn't superior in taste, but serving it ice cold masks the taste and people were led into thinking ice cold is the way to drink beer and that other beers were worse because they drank them at a superior temperature, which didn't mask the taste. It doesn't matter that the other brand probably tastes worse at the same temperature, because they're the ones serving it ice-cold. You can find it here, just ctrl+f for the beer part. I'd suggest reading it all though, it's about marketing and gender in gaming.

League doesn't really have anything I'd class as a pure female power fantasy, since nearly all female champions are portrayed as being within the realm of conventionally attractive in face and body type. And no, skimpy clothing isn't "empowering".

First and foremost, I agree with the latter phrase. On the part of no female power types being there I'm less sure, because I don't have a deep knowledge of the subject. I'd dare say though that Vi could be regarded as a female power fantasy, even if a really primitive one. It appeals to certain subcultures more than to others, but I'd take her as an example of a well-made character even from a girl's POV. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but she's a strong not-skympy female character which I feel has a place in a female power fantasy discussion. The same goes for Leona, imho, and Diana. Obviously I'm referring to the base skins and models, since skins can range from funny to nonsense to intentionally sexy.

cshakes1 votes

First and foremost, I agree with the latter phrase. On the part of no female power types being there I'm less sure, because I don't have a deep knowledge of the subject. I'd dare say though that Vi could be regarded as a female power fantasy, even if a really primitive one. It appeals to certain subcultures more than to others, but I'd take her as an example of a well-made character even from a girl's POV. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but she's a strong not-skympy female character which I feel has a place in a female power fantasy discussion. The same goes for Leona, imho, and Diana. Obviously I'm referring to the base skins and models, since skins can range from funny to nonsense to intentionally sexy.

Yeah, the characters you named have aspects of female power fantasies. However, they're still too eye-candy-ish for me to be able to categorise them as pure power fantasies in good conscience. I think they're somewhere between female power fantasy and male sexual fantasy.

Diahane1 votes

First and foremost, I agree with the latter phrase. On the part of no female power types being there I'm less sure, because I don't have a deep knowledge of the subject. I'd dare say though that Vi could be regarded as a female power fantasy, even if a really primitive one. It appeals to certain subcultures more than to others, but I'd take her as an example of a well-made character even from a girl's POV. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but she's a strong not-skympy female character which I feel has a place in a female power fantasy discussion. The same goes for Leona, imho, and Diana. Obviously I'm referring to the base skins and models, since skins can range from funny to nonsense to intentionally sexy.

Yeah, the characters you named have aspects of female power fantasies. However, they're still too eye-candy-ish for me to be able to categorise them as pure power fantasies in good conscience. I think they're somewhere between female power fantasy and male sexual fantasy.

I can see your point, even though I wouldn't tag Diana as "eye-candy". Art from different artists is obviously varied when it comes to her, but her base splash art doesn't ring any "she's a cutie" alarms, at least to my eyes. The first thing one notices about her is not beauty imho and I think it's probable that some men could deem her as not being beautiful at all. I think that champions being somewhat good-looking has deeper roots and kind of descends from the ancient concept of καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός (good and handsome; second time I get to cite it on the boards xD) and classical heroes being beautiful too. There's a whole lot of cultural bias towards deformations, deviations from the norm and ugly aspects which is not a matter of sexism and indeed applies to males too. For instance, orcs are your typical example of moral evil transpiring from ugly appearance. Their ugliness is a depiction of their immorality and ferality in most standard settings. Of course narrative has progressed a lot since the times when this was a strict norm and we have things such as Warcraft, where Orcs get a much more modern depiction and aren't necessarily the bad guys. I'd say that over the course of time we've just got to a point where main characters are generally good looking, save for those characters who have as a feature the fact of being an exception. That's because they're meant to be showcased and this is the easiest way to strike the audience and have them focus on those characters. But this isn't a matter of sexism, it applies to both sexes and to products catered for females as well.

Dax Ayrton6 votes

A few things:

First of all, they're not part of the same skin line. There is "Officer Caitlyn" and "Officer Vi" on one hand (that because they share names, they share the theme of "skimpy, over-sexualized"), and then there is "Captain Volibear" and "Constable Trundle", (which share a splash art, so those two are free to follow a different theme).

Also, I have to ask you to look at that splash art again. Do Volibear and Trundle really look like believable police officers? They're huge, muscley, and are non-chalantly walking away from an explosion. These two skins are as much a non-sensical parody as the Officer skins are.

Diahane2 votes

A few things:

First of all, they're not part of the same skin line. There is "Officer Caitlyn" and "Officer Vi" on one hand (that because they share names, they share the theme of "skimpy, over-sexualized"), and then there is "Captain Volibear" and "Constable Trundle", (which share a splash art, so those two are free to follow a different theme).

Also, I have to ask you to look at that splash art again. Do Volibear and Trundle really look like believable police officers? They're huge, muscley, and are non-chalantly walking away from an explosion. These two skins are as much a non-sensical parody as the Officer skins are.

And them being so huge, muscled and virile, by the way, is an objectification of male figures in a certain sense, so we can close the circle noticing how gender is not a discriminant in this case.

BtchAssJ3Cub4 votes

Sexualisation of any given character is a fairly troll-worthy opinion to have.

They're characters. On a screen. Completely fake and imagined to sell money. Inside a game.

A. GAME.

Get over it, seriously.

Final GirI9 votes

I agree with you. If he wants consistency through a series of skins. Let's just go ahead and toss a mini skirt on Voli and trundle.

It was never said anywhere that Vi didn't like to dress feminine, in her base skin she is wearing half of a mini skirt on one side, thigh high boots and a corset.

Plus50g4 votes

Stripper clothing and boobs hanging out =/= feminine. Just saying.

How about we make Vi and Cait look like cops, instead of Trundle and Voli ballerinas. :P

EndGamer112 votes

There is no worldwide definition of "police officer". the Officer skins are a representation of American law enforcement, with the Blue, white, and red theme. Piltover's forces could have a relaxed, almost plain-clothes look, especially in off-duty attire. Nowhere does it state that Caitlyn and Vi's base skins are their uniforms, it could be their favorite outfit they wear. Captain Voli and Constable Trundle are their look if they were on the force. Not Piltover's, but the American-styled police.

Plus50g2 votes

There classic skins are what there, cannon police suits in the world, or that would be my guess at least. The skins are the "parody of this world" ones.

xVaseFullofAcidx3 votes

If they put a mini skirt on volibear I would have to have it. O.O

Destínum8 votes

I don't care about the characters themselves, since they are not real. However, having a design pattern like this really make Riot as a company look like a bunch of horny teenage boys and not a professional company consisting of adults.

Onegarion4 votes

No it means thats what they think their players are mostly. They are a business and sell to those that play. SO they clearly think thats what a lot of people want.

catraven5 votes

look like a bunch of horny teenage boys and not a professional company consisting of adults.

if that's true, then you are an infant based on your thinking patterns...

Teenagers and adults alike appreciate stripped down skins. This is a fact...to not understand it, means you are literally an infant, mentally.

5G8Nri0B544 votes

Because as we all know...people stop thinking about sex once they become adults! And girls totally aren't into sexy outfits themselves as clearly shown by marketing materials for Victoria's Secret and other female-oriented franchises.

ViktoriousSecret4 votes

People look to deep into these kinds of things, nobody really cares, I mean realistically. I didn't buy the cait cop skin because I thought she was hot I bought it because I liked the way it looked. And it just so happened to be a stripper-cop. It doesn't fancy me an e-boner. Who really cares. We have champions like leona, strong, powerful, isn't sexually revealing in any way. And then we have vi a strong independent white piltoverian who doesn't need no man and she gets a sexualized skin and all of a sudden people treat it like its an epidemic. Its not an epidemic, its not a big deal I'm sick of these kinds of threads that come up every week.

MrBuffington3 votes
ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

puns of damage

Athenes Lulu3 votes

Skins =/= canon.

Skins are meant to be in "an alternative universe", so it's not surprising if they look different from their original skins. Hey, at least those are the things that Vi and Cait would actually wear, since they probably don't mind too much about purposely showing off.

I can't find any worse offender than Battle Bunny Riven. Riven is definitely someone that is conservative (in terms of not showing off any clevages) just by looking at her skins and such. She looked as if she's FORCED to wear that skintight suit just for her... job?

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